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Ghosts and Other Paranormalities

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There is only so much the new religion of science can explain (I do NOT mean that load of bupkis Scientology I mean actual science)

 

Er... what?

 

You say you don't refer to scientology, but if so, what are you referring to? Science is not faith, not even close. Science is, in a sense, the antithesis of faith--specifically, faith is belief in something despite a lack of proof, or sometimes even in contradiction of proof or reason. Science, on the other hand, follows a predetermined set of logical principles and accepts nothing without absolute, irrefutable proof and copious experimentation. Science, in its purest form, is the definition of skepticism.

 

Science is not religion. Not even close. That's not to say that there aren't those who treat it as a religion, but if science is religion, then it ceases to be science.

 

The stuff it can't explain is in my opinion far more fascinating.

 

Well, yes. o_0 That's part of the point of science, to explain everything. Therefore, science is far more interested in finding a way to explain things that it hasn't figured out yet. And if that explanation is "The whole thing is crap," well... what can you do?

 

Although I will disagree with your phrasing. There's nothing science can't explain, with sufficient knowledge. There are only things it has yet to explain. "Soft sciences" are things that are considered suspect, because of the difficulty of finding proof, conflicting reports, difficulty in determining how to experiment, and that the findings cannot be duplicated. The paranormal is what I like to call a "pillow science", that is, really, really soft.

 

Even better? Those claw marks don't fade for a long time.

 

Um, yeah, that's called "healing". And "scars".

 

I'd like to see a report of these "demon attacks" from a reliable source. Has there ever been any scientific examination of these "hauntings"?

 

Also, I don't think either of those angels are biblical angels. This is a cherub. This is a seraph. Seraphim also seem to be closely related to snakes. This is an ophanim. Hashmallim are described;

I saw, and behold, there was a stormy wind coming from the north, a great cloud with flashing fire and a brilliance surrounding it; and from its midst, like the color of the Hashmal [often translated electrum] from the midst of the fire, and in its midst there was the likeness of four Chayot (living creatures).

 

Biblical angels are damn freaky, when you come right down to it. The second one is probably closer, but nonetheless, it's not a series of nested wheels covered in eyes, it's only got two wings, and only one head.

 

Although as far as I've found, the Bible doesn't describe its angels very well.

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There are multiple different sources for angels. Every version of christianity, has different views of angels. That being said I am going to focus on the science part.

 

Ok so religion here are a few definitions:

 

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects

3.something one believes in and follows devotedly

 

Now science is not in point of fact considered a religion. It is a way to explain the universe etc,etc... But what do you call a religion? Does not every religion EVER try to explain the universe? Does not every religion have followers that will defend it to the last?

How is science any different? Most people don't understand the higher complexities of science. They have to be told that it just works. Millions of people put their faith in science because it can explain things for them. Every religion has made the same claim.

DISCLAIMER: I to am a person who adheres to scientific credo. It does explain things. So don't think i'm just ripping on it. I am merely stating that in the scheme of things, Science has basically become a religion.

 

Oh and for the record there are LOTS of things science can't explain. Go onto goodle and search it. You will find many interesting things.

 

ANOTHER DISCLAIMER: I am not trying to be a dick. I just honestly think these things. So don't think i'm being difficult on purpose I am just being difficult because I am explaining my argument.

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That's a very contradicting statement. If you don't believe then what harm can come of the board being in your house? In fact if I were you I'd get one to make a very entertaining snack serving tray. Since you don't believe, and because of that paranormal things do not exist in your eyes, then all a Ouija board is is a silly trinket, right?

I don't believe. But I am open to the idea that I'm wrong. I'm not all-knowing, so if I'm wrong, and there are evil spirits and whatnot out there, why risk it?

 

It's like going hiking: Just because there hasn't been a sighting of an animal that can kill me in this area doesn't mean I'm going without my rifle and knife.

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How is science any different? Most people don't understand the higher complexities of science. They have to be told that it just works. Millions of people put their faith in science because it can explain things for them. Every religion has made the same claim.

DISCLAIMER: I to am a person who adheres to scientific credo. It does explain things. So don't think i'm just ripping on it. I am merely stating that in the scheme of things, Science has basically become a religion.

 

Oh and for the record there are LOTS of things science can't explain. Go onto goodle and search it. You will find many interesting things.

The difference between science and religion is that with science I can actually go out into the field, recreate the circumstances, and get the same result.

Religion has none of that.

 

With that being said, solipsism and nihilism are my only remaining belief systems.

Edited by Drer'Ahv

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I don't believe. But I am open to the idea that I'm wrong. I'm not all-knowing, so if I'm wrong, and there are evil spirits and whatnot out there, why risk it?

 

It's like going hiking: Just because there hasn't been a sighting of an animal that can kill me in this area doesn't mean I'm going without my rifle and knife.

So you believe in the possibility...where is where I stand at. It's not that I don't believe, but I believe in the possibility.

 

I like that answer by the way.

 

@Ryujin13: ihu. I want to talk some day.

Tough I have to point out one tiny thing...the ouija boards are not just "silly instruments developed by excellent actors" but they were also board game created by Milton Bradley for hours of family fun! Really, I found it in an antique store right next to 60s picture of Jesus. But yeah, can't help but laugh ant the historical hype people give them nowadays.

 

They only work because people automatically believe they will work. People could get the same results with a piece of paper and a shot glass if they put as much belief into as one of those boards.

 

And honestly, I like the four headed, four winged hoofed angels the best.

 

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"And I looked, and behold, there were four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub, and the appearance of the wheels was like sparkling beryl. 10And as for their appearance, the four had the same likeness, as if a wheel were within a wheel. 11 When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went, but in whatever direction the front wheel faced, the others followed without turning as they went. 12 And their whole body, their rims, and their spokes, their wings, and the wheels were full of eyes all around—the wheels that the four of them had. 13As for the wheels, they were called in my hearing "the whirling wheels." 14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of the cherub, and the second face was a human face, and he third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle."

Ezekiel 10 ~ESV

 

Um, is this the angel you guys are talking about?

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"And I looked, and behold, there were four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub, and the appearance of the wheels was like sparkling beryl. 10And as for their appearance, the four had the same likeness, as if a wheel were within a wheel. 11 When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went, but in whatever direction the front wheel faced, the others followed without turning as they went. 12 And their whole body, their rims, and their spokes, their wings, and the wheels were full of eyes all around—the wheels that the four of them had. 13As for the wheels, they were called in my hearing "the whirling wheels." 14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of the cherub, and the second face was a human face, and he third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle."

Ezekiel 10 ~ESV

 

Um, is this the angel you guys are talking about?

Not the description I was thinking of, but yes :3

I think the description I remember is one by a philosopher...I'd have to dig out the book that has it in it and find the page.

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@Wookie: Did you say 'I hear you' or 'I hate you'?

 

@ the above.

 

Different angels have different descriptions. I choose to personally believe in Dionysius' Nine Celestial Orders of Angels. This lists (obviously) nine different types of angels from most powerful, and therefore closer to god, at the top and least powerful at the bottom.

They are:

 

Seraphims

Cherubims

Thrones

Dominions

Virtues

Powers

Principalities

Archangels

Angels

 

Almost all of the categories have warriors in them, with the entire seraphim line being warriors.

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"And I looked, and behold, there were four wheels beside the cherubim, one beside each cherub, and the appearance of the wheels was like sparkling beryl. 10And as for their appearance, the four had the same likeness, as if a wheel were within a wheel. 11 When they went, they went in any of their four directions without turning as they went, but in whatever direction the front wheel faced, the others followed without turning as they went. 12 And their whole body, their rims, and their spokes, their wings, and the wheels were full of eyes all around—the wheels that the four of them had. 13As for the wheels, they were called in my hearing "the whirling wheels." 14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of the cherub, and the second face was a human face, and he third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle."

Ezekiel 10 ~ESV

 

Um, is this the angel you guys are talking about?

One of them.

 

I think the four-wheels thing is just another kind of angel, not part of the cherub itself, but I could be wrong.

 

Interesting fact (unless I'm talking out my metaphorical hat): "God" in the original Hebrew is referred to with a plural noun. However, it is treated as a singular noun in context, and is only treated as a plural when referring to non-Hebrew pagan pantheons.

 

He. Pagan pantheons is a funny phrase.

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Different angels have different descriptions. I choose to personally believe in Dionysius' Nine Celestial Orders of Angels. This lists (obviously) nine different types of angels from most powerful, and therefore closer to god, at the top and least powerful at the bottom.

They are:

 

Seraphims

Cherubims

Thrones

Dominions

Virtues

Powers

Principalities

Archangels

Angels

 

Almost all of the categories have warriors in them, with the entire seraphim line being warriors.

cool. the order of the angels has always intrigued me. wish there were pictures of each angel category.

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cool. the order of the angels has always intrigued me. wish there were pictures of each angel category.

draw some, they are as legit as any other pics

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I have a sixth sense, but it's weak due to my religious beliefs being ultra-strong. I started seeing ghosts when I was 11. I stay in landed property, behind a large patch of forested land that is very overgrown. One night, I woke to drink some water and went downstairs, only to meet face-to-face with a floating head. I had white hair that covering its face, but it floated as a head. I freaked but when I tried to clean my cup the oranges on the sink rolled away from each other as if from a magnetic pull.

 

Another time I was waiting to be picked up from tuition when I saw two lights falling from the sky- one green and one red. They were not LED kites(which is common for my country), just comet-like lights.

 

I still see them sometimes but I can't control.

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I never seen or encountered ghosts/demons in real life. But I believe they somewhat exist. At night when all lights are out, I hate leaving my room to go to the loo. I get kinda scared when I look at the dark living room though theres nobody there except for my hamsters and fishes. The dark sort of scares me. Prolly cos I fear that a demon/ghost may pop out. I avoid playing scary games and watching scary videos in my room without the lights on. Lol.

 

Video of a demon girl decapitating herself:

 

Real ghost sounds?

 

Real demon sounds?

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Real demon sounds?

That sounds identical like someone just added in a sound clip of a fighting elephant seal.

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Does not every religion EVER try to explain the universe? Does not every religion have followers that will defend it to the last?

How is science any different? Most people don't understand the higher complexities of science. They have to be told that it just works. Millions of people put their faith in science because it can explain things for them. Every religion has made the same claim.

 

Similar in purpose, yes. Different in method.

 

Religion is primarily based around stories. Stories of how the earth was made, stories of why humans are human, stories of why rain falls or why tides change or why volcanoes exist. Which is all very well and good--stories in the right contexts can be very powerful--but doesn't hold up to examination. If you go and look, you'll see there isn't a dragon underneath that mountain, and that rain falls because water condenses in the clouds, and that tides change because of the gravitational pull of the moon (and to a lesser extent, the sun).

 

I'm not even going to touch the first two, but you see my point.

 

Science, on the other hand--good, hard science, physics and biology and geology--is the method of going and looking. Religion relies, in a sense, on the ignorance of its believers. Most myths are invalidated by knowledge (again, not touching creation myths).

 

Science can be proven by anyone who cares to go look. Most mythology can be disproven by anyone who cares to go look, or at least be forced to change drastically. There's a very key difference there.

 

If people put their faith in science, that is a problem, one that is caused by lack of education, among other things. If science is treated as a faith, then it ceases to be science. There's a major problem here: one thing that religion provides is a set of moral standards. Science is not a religion; science is a method of inquiry and logic. If a person tries to turn to science for their morals, then they will wind up a totally unethical being.

 

I'm not saying that anyone who is not religious is amoral. I'm saying that anyone who equates science with religion, and treats it as their one and only religion, then they will become amoral.

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I'm not saying that I personally think of science as a religion, nor that anyone else conciously views it as a religion. What I am saying is that science is basically today's religion. More people will put their faith into what science says then what a relgious figure says, and there is nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. Science has given us many things, a lot of which are really cool. That being said most people don't or flat out can't understand what the hell scientists are talking about so they have to take them at their word. A scientist could spot gobbldygook tomorrow with a bunch of 'evidence' behind it and a lot of people would believe it. (depending on what he said I might or might not be one of them) When you look at this it can be equated to a religion. The 'religious figures' aka scientists tell us that something is one way, and we the common man go with it because he knows doesn't he? What's the difference between that and a prophet? A prophet comes down and says "Hey god says you have to do this" and everyone does it because hey hes the prophet. Thats my point.

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@Wookie: Did you say 'I hear you' or 'I hate you'?

"I heart you"

At least that what it means to me.

And here is the quote from the book:

"Out of the middle of the fire came what appeared to be four living creatures. This was what they looked like: they had the appearance of human beings. Each one had four faces and each one had four wings. Their legs were straight, and they had hooves like the hooves of calves, glittering like polished brass. Beneath their wings, they had human hands on all four sides, along with their four faces and four wings...As for the appearance of the faces, each one had a human face, a lion's face on the right side, a bull's face on the left side, and an eagle's face...[Around them] were what looked like burning coals and lamps, going up and down among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire came lightning."

 

Ryujin13 listed one version of the order of angels and the most commonly know one I think. There are other ones though and one I remember contains Auphanim, which are "Angels of wisdom" that are "wheels within wheels, covered in eyes"

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I believe that there are paranormal things and spirits, not ghosts. I do -not- believe in demon creatures to tell you the truth, and if it can't be debunked, it may be something. I watch Ghost Hunters on sci-fi and When they find something, I give my opinion and wait to see what they think, so I do believe that some things remain here on Earth and never really leave because they don't want to.

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What book is that quote from, Wookieinmashoo? I am kinda curious because it sounds a lot like another description of Cherubim in the Bible. Very interesting though, thanks for sharing that.

 

I believe in Angels, Demons, the occasional soul trapped on earth, and various other weird, unexplainable phenomena.

The other day I saw a red streak in the sky; it moved very slowly, and as it moved it gradually grew smaller and slightly rounder in shape. Any thoughts as to what this is? Also, I once saw a light shining through my window at night, and it pulsated irregularly. I counted the seconds between each pulse but the time between them varied widely. I was too scared by the thought of aliens to look out the window, to tell the truth. I live in the country so it couldn't really be a car or streetlamp or anything.

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Government explanation: Weather baloon, swamp gas, military training excersize, scientific jargon.

My explanation: *shrug* who knows?

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What book is that quote from, Wookieinmashoo? I am kinda curious because it sounds a lot like another description of Cherubim in the Bible. Very interesting though, thanks for sharing that.

 

I believe in Angels, Demons, the occasional soul trapped on earth, and various other weird, unexplainable phenomena.

The other day I saw a red streak in the sky; it moved very slowly, and as it moved it gradually grew smaller and slightly rounder in shape. Any thoughts as to what this is? Also, I once saw a light shining through my window at night, and it pulsated irregularly. I counted the seconds between each pulse but the time between them varied widely. I was too scared by the thought of aliens to look out the window, to tell the truth. I live in the country so it couldn't really be a car or streetlamp or anything.

It's from a book titled "Monsters" (John Michael Greer) and is about different paranormal creatures. It's not one of my favorites, it's "iffy" in many sections, but still interesting to read.

 

No idea about the pulsating light though, it could have been anything. Next time don't be afraid to get up and look. Irregular pulsing means it's probably more natural. Maybe a light on the side of the house you were in seemed to pulsate because of moving foliage. Stuff can seem really strange if you are just waking up or slightly tired.

 

As for the red streak, maybe ball lightning? It's a rare electrical phenomena and not much is known about it. In fact, after I wrote a paper on the Bermuda triangle I found out about a ton of electrical and weather phenomena that happen, but are just rare and unexplained so many people would take them for things that are paranormal.

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I believe in the paranormal, but if there is a logical explanation then I will stick to that. Although I've heard people talk about Ouijia board and an automatic typer, what are those?

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Never seen anything out of the ordinary myself and if my house is haunted then I have a highly annoying ghost on my hands. I mean really, what kind of ghost keeps unraveling my yarn?

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Never seen anything out of the ordinary myself and if my house is haunted then I have a highly annoying ghost on my hands. I mean really, what kind of ghost keeps unraveling my yarn?

You sure it's not a cat?

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