Ghosts and Other Paranormalities

[Dubious]

Ghost, dictionary definition...

 

1. The spirit of a dead person, especially one believed to appear in bodily likeness to living persons or to haunt former habitats.

2. The center of spiritual life; the soul.

3. A demon or spirit.

4. A returning or haunting memory or image.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Dubious

[Vexx]

Well, I've always heard Ghost being used for the random replays, spirits as the actual... souls and such.

But I'm a ghost hunting nerd, so....

[grimace]

Ghost, dictionary definition...

 

1. The spirit of a dead person, especially one believed to appear in bodily likeness to living persons or to haunt former habitats.

2. The center of spiritual life; the soul.

3. A demon or spirit.

4. A returning or haunting memory or image.

Ah, my bad. I thought you meant like haunted houses and whatnot.

[AngelKitty]

A few biologists does not constitute the entire scientific communtiy.

 

True, but see, biologists are people who study, among other things, the theory of evolution. The fact that not a single one of them even entertained the idea that ghosts would shake evolutionary theory is pretty telling. Would it help if I told you they all scoffed at the idea that the existence of a soul could hurt evolutionary theory?

 

I'll have to question the folks who are actually doing evolutionary studies next. Y'know, the folks who have made evolution their life and know it and understand it like the back of their hand.

 

I'm honestly completely baffled by how you could think the existence of a soul could harm the theory of evolution, when evolution is a scientific theory based purely on observable physical changes and has nothing to do with things like religion, the spiritual, or the supernatural. :S

[Dubious]

True, but see, biologists are people who study, among other things, the theory of evolution. The fact that not a single one of them even entertained the idea that ghosts would shake evolutionary theory is pretty telling. Would it help if I told you they all scoffed at the idea that the existence of a soul could hurt evolutionary theory?

 

I'll have to question the folks who are actually doing evolutionary studies next. Y'know, the folks who have made evolution their life and know it and understand it like the back of their hand.

 

I'm honestly completely baffled by how you could think the existence of a soul could harm the theory of evolution, when evolution is a scientific theory based purely on observable physical changes and has nothing to do with things like religion, the spiritual, or the supernatural. :S

I am not surprised they scoffed, they are biologists! Of course they would say that. What you have done is verify my concept of a close minded scientific community that cannot 'think outside the box'. Now give me those who study quantum physics, they are the ones charging ahead.

 

I never said ghosts would harm evolution theories, I only said it would cause them to be reevaluated from a new perspective and in that sense rock the scientific community. I am baffled how you can think think the existence of a soul would have no effect whatsoever on the existence of physical matter, especially when the two meet.

 

I have studied evolution, I am sorry but you are coming off like you believe that no one but certified biologists have any right to discuss or even think about the theory of evolution. It is actually coming across pretty rude. My opinion may not meet your requirements, but I, like everyone else am entitled to theorize and debate the theories of our origins without being told we have to be certified to do so or fined if we do.

 

Right, back on topic....On another note, I went to see a house a few days ago as I am looking at buying. It was right in the center of this medieval town I live in.

 

That place was freaky. The house had been lived in by an asian couple who had made clothes in there to support themselves. The man passed away from lung cancer and the woman died shortly after. The house has been pretty much abandoned since and was falling apart. I was uncomfortable the whole time and couldn't wait to get out of there, neither could my friend.

 

Well I was talking to another friend who is a ghost hunter and it turns out he has been in that house and got an EVP from there. He played it for me and you can hear a sewing machine going. It certainly sounded very spooky.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Dubious

[Qwackie]

Right, back on topic....On another note, I went to see a house a few days ago as I am looking at buying. It was right in the center of this medieval town I live in.

 

That place was freaky. The house had been lived in by an asian couple who had made clothes in there to support themselves. The man passed away from lung cancer and the woman died shortly after. The house has been pretty much abandoned since and was falling apart. I was uncomfortable the whole time and couldn't wait to get out of there, neither could my friend.

 

Well I was talking to another friend who is a ghost hunter and it turns out he has been in that house and got an EVP from there. He played it for me and you can hear a sewing machine going. It certainly sounded very spooky.

God, I'd love to go to a place like that. Last night I heard someone walking around after my brother went to bed, and it went on for about an hour, sounded like pacing. I've never /seen/ anything that would count as paranormal, but I've heard some pretty creepy stuff.

[Gsea]

okay, so i am now sure that my house is haunted. i am also scared out of my wits.

 

this morning i was brushing my hair and i saw this...shape. it had no distinct outline but it was kind of teetering on the edge of my bed. i kind of went into lock-down mode like i always do when i see these kind of things. i froze, couldn't move, or speak, or think...i could only see. i made no connections with this ,and the fact that it was just...freaky....until it wobbled, fell to the ground, and vanished into thin air. then i woke up inside, and went about my usual morning routine in a state of...shock, almost. like i couldn't say anything, or bother to feel the fear that had frozen me...it was so strange, so unreal. like nothing i have ever felt before.

 

when did i say i wanted to enter the world of the paranormal? i've never been that person. i like to watch people's experiences, hear about them, read about them...and now i'm living it. and i don't want to.

[honeytea]

>_<

 

A soul does not affect the physical genes.

I say, if souls exist, that they are reused (past lives, anyone?) in a body that closely matches their old one.

[earthgirl]

There was this little boy living under my apartment, who died at the age of 5. Drowned. His family moved away in the meantime. The people who live there now, are away the whole year and come around only one month per year, if. I can feel a presence in my house at times. It's spooky. I've had it hiding my stuff, moving objects. I even told it to give my keys back once - straight and ferm. They keys appeared in a drawer in front of me. I *did* look in there before. Also, if you guys remember that experiment - I did it. And I saw him. I saw the body of a 5 year old child in the room that is next to mine. He was standing in a corner, looking sad. I knew from before that it was a playful spirit and I had a feeling that it must be a child. Then I found out who it actually was.

 

I've had some weird experiences at the Uni as well. With things randomly moving, turning on and off around me. Me and a girls had a spiritism sorta session, so it was kinda expected something to come out of it.

 

Also, I wonder if these sequences of me waking up in the middle of the night with the feeling of drowning and the need to scream so I won't die have something to do with this one little boy. If he trying to tell me something? .____. Because it's kinda creepy.

[Dubious]

>_<

 

A soul does not affect the physical genes.

The mind affects the body including genes, that is proven fact.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Dubious

[Vexx]

The mind affects the body, that is proven fact.

ಠ_ಠ

 

Genes. Genes do not change. GENES. You are born with them, it's built in to the sperm/egg.

 

....so do you believe the soul exists as soon as the egg is fertilized?

[Dubious]

Actually a study at Harvard University proved that state of mind can affect genes, specifically that a state of relaxation and positive thought results in more disease fighting genes.

 

so do you believe the soul exists as soon as the egg is fertilized?

 

What does that have to do with it? I am not saying the soul makes genes, but the soul aka mind can affect genes.

 

 

Back on topic, I can certainly relate to those going through a hard time with paranormal experiences. It can be very frightening, especially if you are on your own. The only thing I can think of is that there has never (to my knowledge) been a case of humans being hurt by ghosts.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Dubious

[earthgirl]

The mind can affect genes, as you can read a person by the look on their face.

 

For an instance, everybody says that I have the features of my dad, but I look a lot like Mom. .____. In all the ways possible. We are very alike and we have almost the same opinions on most stuff. The look on my and my mom's face are identical. I got *almost* nothing from my dad. (thankfully >.>)

[AngelArtist]

I have had repeated experiences with ghosts, because our house is infequently "haunted" by the ghost of the sweet old lady who used to live here until she died. Occasionally, I get the feeling I'm being watched, which is usually followed by a chill in the air. More often, I'll wake up at some ungodly hour for no reason and smell cigarette smoke faintly in my bedroom. I know the old woman (Gladys) smoked heavily, had three adopted sons, and would often sit and talk to her sons in the room that is now mine. I actually had a kitten (he was killed by a car this past Monday, October the 3rd) who would sit in the living room and stare into space above our television and appeared to be following something with his eyes, and my mom told me that when we had our first cat when I was four, the cat would do that too, and she thinks it's Gladys. Also, before my dad redid the upstairs of the house, there used to be a door whose handle would get stuck and wouldn't open for anything, then if you left for 5 minutes and came back, the door would open with no problem, so I'm pretty convinced that our house is slightly haunted, but not in a bad way. Gladys is friendly, and mom says she would never hurt me or my brother, especially considering I'm adopted X3

[AngelKitty]

I am not surprised they scoffed, they are biologists! Of course they would say that. What you have done is verify my concept of a close minded scientific community that cannot 'think outside the box'.

 

No, they scoffed because the idea that a proven existence of a soul would affect the theory of evolution makes no sense. Could it affect other areas of science or biology? Perhaps. But not the theory of evolution.

 

I never said ghosts would harm evolution theories, I only said it would cause them to be reevaluated from a new perspective and in that sense rock the scientific community.

 

Um.

 

Should there be proof of life after death all your beliefs on evolution and the non existance of a soul would be blown out the window. It is in science's best interest to debunk anything paranormal, as it threatens the very core and foundation of science itself.

 

I don't interpret "blowing something out of the water" as "causing people to rethink it." You also seem to think scientists and science are threatened by the idea of the paranormal. We're not. The paranormal is outside of our field because it can't be objectively studied or measured.

 

And I still fail to see how something completely and 100% not at all related to evolution in any way would affect the theory of evolution. It makes no sense. I consider myself fairly open minded, and I'm able to make a lot of nonsensical things make sense, but I can't even make this idea make sense. That's like saying proving the existence of the Yeti would affect gravitational theory.

 

I have studied evolution, I am sorry but you are coming off like you believe that no one but certified biologists have any right to discuss or even think about the theory of evolution. It is actually coming across pretty rude. My opinion may not meet your requirements, but I, like everyone else am entitled to theorize and debate the theories of our origins without being told we have to be certified to do so or fined if we do.

 

Well, I'm certainly not trying to be rude, and I'm sorry if I come off that way. You're allowed to discuss and think about evolution all you want. In fact, I like it when people are eager to learn about evolution and discuss it. I wish my students would do it more often. I just can't see how you think the existence of a soul would affect the theory of evolution.

 

Let's try this: can you elaborate on why you think the two are connected?

 

(Also, mods, if you read this: should this debate be moved to the evolution thread? Thanks.)

[Crolla]

Once I was sitting in the living room of my house and my door was LOCKED. I was 100% sure. But then it all of a sudden opened, it was wiered. Another time I heard something in the garage and it is off my kitchen were I was. I looked out into the garage and nothing was there. It sounded like someone walking around and messing with tools and stuff...it was wierd.

[Nerendier]

I am not surprised they scoffed, they are biologists! Of course they would say that. What you have done is verify my concept of a close minded scientific community that cannot 'think outside the box'. Now give me those who study quantum physics, they are the ones charging ahead.

 

I never said ghosts would harm evolution theories, I only said it would cause them to be reevaluated from a new perspective and in that sense rock the scientific community. I am baffled how you can think think the existence of a soul would have no effect whatsoever on the existence of physical matter, especially when the two meet.

 

I have studied evolution, I am sorry but you are coming off like you believe that no one but certified biologists have any right to discuss or even think about the theory of evolution. It is actually coming across pretty rude. My opinion may not meet your requirements, but I, like everyone else am entitled to theorize and debate the theories of our origins without being told we have to be certified to do so or fined if we do.

 

Right, back on topic....On another note, I went to see a house a few days ago as I am looking at buying. It was right in the center of this medieval town I live in.

 

That place was freaky. The house had been lived in by an asian couple who had made clothes in there to support themselves. The man passed away from lung cancer and the woman died shortly after. The house has been pretty much abandoned since and was falling apart. I was uncomfortable the whole time and couldn't wait to get out of there, neither could my friend.

 

Well I was talking to another friend who is a ghost hunter and it turns out he has been in that house and got an EVP from there. He played it for me and you can hear a sewing machine going. It certainly sounded very spooky.

...

 

Look. Science takes no part in the supernatural. Nothing. We (us biologists) take no stance on religion. Because the two are completely separate. (And I personally find it insulting that you said all biologists are close-minded. Maybe you shouldn't make inane remarks assuming that all people of x community think a certain way, isn't that being prejudiced?)

 

 

Ok. It would not rock the scientific community, because they are two completely separate things. If tomorrow we found out that we are indeed the center of the universe, all the biologists wouldn't be sitting there rewriting Darwinist theories, Psychologists wouldn't be rewriting Piaget, Chemists wouldn't be rewriting Bohr's Gas Laws. BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO EFFECT ON EACH OTHER. The only scientists that would be re-examining Darwinism due to ghosts and/or souls being proven would be the ones that didn't know much about it in the first place. A discovery of a new species, as this is basically the effect that it would have, rarely changes how we organize the kingdoms, phylums, etc. Even if they are related. So how would the discovery of ghosts cause the scientific community to be shaken in the least? Although a discovery like this would make headlines around the world, it would only be worthy of a passing mention in a scientific journal to the scientific community, because it has ZERO effect on the natural world.

Even if it were to be taken into account, let's say ghosts are out there killing random animals. It would still be covered under natural selection. NOTHING would change. The scientific community would recognize it as it is. A new discovery that can be easily integrated into most common theories. Take things at face value, because that's what they are.

Scientist MAY indeed re-evaluate a few things here and there, but it would not ROCK the scientific community.

[Kai]

I am not surprised they scoffed, they are biologists! Of course they would say that. What you have done is verify my concept of a close minded scientific community that cannot 'think outside the box'. Now give me those who study quantum physics, they are the ones charging ahead.

 

I never said ghosts would harm evolution theories, I only said it would cause them to be reevaluated from a new perspective and in that sense rock the scientific community. I am baffled how you can think think the existence of a soul would have no effect whatsoever on the existence of physical matter, especially when the two meet.

 

I have studied evolution, I am sorry but you are coming off like you believe that no one but certified biologists have any right to discuss or even think about the theory of evolution. It is actually coming across pretty rude. My opinion may not meet your requirements, but I, like everyone else am entitled to theorize and debate the theories of our origins without being told we have to be certified to do so or fined if we do.

 

Right, back on topic....On another note, I went to see a house a few days ago as I am looking at buying. It was right in the center of this medieval town I live in.

 

That place was freaky. The house had been lived in by an asian couple who had made clothes in there to support themselves. The man passed away from lung cancer and the woman died shortly after. The house has been pretty much abandoned since and was falling apart. I was uncomfortable the whole time and couldn't wait to get out of there, neither could my friend.

 

Well I was talking to another friend who is a ghost hunter and it turns out he has been in that house and got an EVP from there. He played it for me and you can hear a sewing machine going. It certainly sounded very spooky.

I posit that beliefs similar to yours give good feelings of smug self assurance and self importance similar to that experienced by conspiracy theorists.

[Dubious]

Edit...at this point I am just going to leave it be. No point in further argument on this.

 

I posit that beliefs similar to yours give good feelings of smug self assurance and self importance similar to that experienced by conspiracy theorists.

 

I posit POST that that is a very narrow minded way of looking at things. I also posit POST that I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am simply open minded.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Dubious

[grimace]

Who said ghosts were a species?

 

Also, please explain how proof of ghosts would have anything to do with evolution at all. No matter how I look at it, I can't see one single way that proof of ghosts or an afterlife, or anything like that would come anywhere near affecting evolutional theory for better or worse.

 

''What if we were the result of genetic experiments of our ancestors?

What if we were originally from another planet?

What if the existence of ghosts proved another way we got here? ''

Now those would certainly make people reevaluate evolution. The existence of ghosts would not.

 

''Darwin's theories have been debunked over and over but it is the scientific community's way to ignore any evidence that doen't fit in with their limited experiments and beliefs.''

When exactly was Darwin debunked over and over? Also, the ENTIRE point of science is not ignoring evidence, ever.

 

''You already have ghosts bagged up and labeled as 'another species', don't you think that is incredibly premature and incredibly limited?''

Wat. No one ever said, or even implied, that ghosts were 'just another species'.

 

''When science finally comes up with the technology to see into the many dimensions that they have already proven with physics and maths, exist.''

If math and physics have totally proven something, that means science pretty much will totally accept it. Are you saying math and physics are not a pat of science?

 

 

 

 

[Dubious]

Fine, whatever, you are all right.

 

My original post has been picked apart, blown out of proportion and things taken out of context and I have no further wish to argue or 'defend' my position on this subject. I have far more important things to get on with. So I leave the thread to the rest of you, I won't be reading it again.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Dubious

[Kai]

Edit...at this point I am just going to leave it be. No point in further argument on this.

 

 

 

I posit POST that that is a very narrow minded way of looking at things. I also posit POST that I am not a conspiracy theorist, I am simply open minded.

Definition of POSIT

1

: to dispose or set firmly : fix

2

: to assume or affirm the existence of : postulate

3

: to propose as an explanation : suggest

 

Fine, whatever, you are all right. 

 

My original post has been picked apart, blown out of proportion and things taken out of context and I have no further wish to argue or 'defend' my position on this subject. I have far more important things to get on with. So I leave the thread to the rest of you, I won't be reading it again.

Oh my gosh, conspiracy theorists do this too!

[Syaoransbear]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding Dubious, but maybe proof of a soul could affect evolution. If there were proof of a soul, then instead of evolution being caused by the body genetically changing by itself, it could be caused by the soul willing the genetics to change, making genes forcefully changed due to the soul instead of other, more physical factors.

 

However, simple proof of a soul wouldn't change evolution. You would have to prove there was a soul, and then prove that the soul was affecting genetics too. That seems a lot more difficult. So I still don't believe that proof of a soul would rock theories of evolution immediately until they figured out in how many ways a soul can affect the physical body.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Syaoransbear

[St. Jimmy]

I haven't ever seen a ghost, but I've played around with a Ouija board a few times. Usually I'd talk to the same spirit. His name was Nathan, but that's all I knew because he didn't like talking to people. It was a lot more freaky than it sounds.

[SilverDragonTears]

We have ghosts in our house. At least we think we do. There's been many times that my husband has thought I walked through the hallway, which you can see from the couch, but got up only to find me sleeping soundly. Also when I'm in bed I can feel someone walk into the room yet there is no one there. You know how your senses perk up when someone walks in? Also, and I swear to this, I hear music playing when I'm in bed. It's very faint but I can always hear the tune. Our house is pretty old so... who know

 

EDIT -- Oh and once my friends and I used an Ouija board too. I asked it to tell me the middle name of my best friend who died in high school. No one else even knew her and they certainly didn't know her middle name. The board spelled it out. Totally freaked me out.

Edited October 9, 2010 by SilverDragonTears