Ghosts and Other Paranormalities

[Nerendier]

no, I am a Christian. I do know that spirits exist but they cannot harm me because I am protected by God.

I'll invite you to the religion thread for further interrogations... er, I mean lively conversations.

 

 

 

So, as not to be off-topic. I have waking nightmares all the time. It's pretty bad sometimes. I had 2 in the passed 7 days. The most recent I thought I saw a black widow spider crawling in my bed. But after jumping out of bed and nearly screaming (yes, I, a 6'0" 200+ lbs man, nearly screamed because of an imaginary venomous spider on my sheets.), I came to my senses after about 30 seconds when I realized that it was way too big to be a black widow, and there was no sign of it anywhere nearby. Now before that, I woke up and saw a snake, but it was a dead one, with its head cut off and spine removed hanging from the ceiling. Naturally, I realized that there was nothing there and crawled back into bed. I fall asleep pretty quick after these incidents. Now, if I were a believer in the paranormal, I would insist that an evil spirit was tormenting me (I also seem to have pretty bad luck). However, as a rational deist, I believe that I am simply suffering from some psychosis or another.

[dragon_mando]

I am fine with speculation

 

Though I must admit, some of the "paranormal" things that can be shown as just other levels of the psyche (like Automatic Writing using Freudian psychology) can be quite entertaining. Not truly paranormal, as it's just the self as far as I can tell, but the differences from the conscious mind sure make it different enough to used as a fun joke to pull on a gullible person you don't like. Like I mentioned earlier on this page, I tried it last night and it was fun, even though I knew it was just my own mind playing tricks on me then.

[Dubious]

Tricks of the Mind misconstrued as paranormal activity.

Yes, without a doubt some paranormal occurances are tricks of the mind, I have debunked some of my own experiences. However you cannot use that as a blanket excuse to wave off the millions of experiences people have had. To say every single paranormal experience is a trick of the mind is totally illogical....

 

For one, what if an experience was created by someone else to frighten someone else? And the person stills believes they have had a genuine experience.

 

That one along with so many other explanations do not fall under 'trick of the mind'.

 

Using such a blanket statement is also a bit offensive, are you calling everyone who has had a paranormal experience...mentally unstable in that they see things and hear things that aren't there?

 

Point is that neither side can prove either way, the believers cannot prove beyond a doubt that paranormal activity exists....and....the non believers cannot prove that paranormal activity DOESN'T exist. It is a no win argument and fruitless to try to change the minds of others anyway.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Dubious

[Ælex]

To say every single paranormal experience is a trick of the mind is totally illogical...

All the people on earth used to think that the earth was flat once. Were they right?

 

Just because a mass phenomenon such as ghost sightings is occurring does not evidence to the existence of sed' phenomenon.

Eye witness testimony is never concrete proof of anything.

 

Unfortunately neither is photographic evidence any more viable, due to the ease with which it could be forged in the modern age.

 

Thus, I repeat, we can only speculate.

 

My sceptical a$& however says, spirits and ghosts are a by-product of religion, instilled within the minds of every human gullible/naive/impressionable enough to buy into it.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Ælex

[dragon_mando]

Funny, most of the people I've met who've had such experiences are/were agnostic or atheists before then or still are. Yes, photos and eyewitness accounts are not solid proof, but just like in court cases, they are a minor evidence. Minor enough that most cases can be disproven as hysteria or a joke, but not all.

[Ælex]

Funny, most of the people I've met who've had such experiences are/were agnostic or atheists before then or still are.

Then they are not atheists.

They are what we call "closet theists".

They claim not to believe in the supernatural for some reason, but deep down the truth differs from their claims.

Presuming what you said is true, of course.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

Also, why not all? Do explain.

 

If you are going to claim its merely the sheer amount of alleged sightings and experiences, I don't care how many they are, as I have said, we live in a world where spiritual faith is abundant, and the human mind is prone to misinterpreting anything unexplainable as something paranormal.

 

Coupled with the sheer scale of the world's population and the period of time, naturally there are going to be millions of so called "sightings".

Edited October 4, 2010 by Ælex

[Dubious]

All the people on earth used to think that the earth was flat once. Were they right?

 

How is that relevant? Not all the people on earth believe in ghosts. I would say it is pretty much well divided.

 

Just because a mass phenomenon such as ghost sightings is occurring does not evidence to the existence of sed' phenomenon.

Eye witness testimony is never concrete proof of anything.

 

But that is not proof that is doesn't exist, either.

 

Thus, I repeat, we can only speculate.

 

You speculate, actual experience over and over again has taught me that at the very least there is some truth to the idea of the paranormal. I have my concrete evidence and I would have to be deluded to ignore what is right in front of my face.

 

You haven't had any experiences and that is is fine. But that doesn't mean that everyone else who has had experiences is wrong and you are right.

 

My sceptical a$& however says, spirits and ghosts are a by-product of religion, instilled within the minds of every human gullible/naive/impressionable enough to buy into it.

 

You will find if you research, that paranormal doesn't occur only to the religious at all. I am not religious.

 

Unfortunately neither is photographic evidence any more viable, due to the ease with which it could be forged in the modern age.

 

Yes it can be, but that doesn't mean that every photo is doctored.

 

My feelings on it all is that there is ample evidence of paranormal activity, much much evidence. However it is debunked, sometimes with the most rediculous reasons. Well look at it as if you were a scientist. Should there be proof of life after death all your beliefs on evolution and the non existance of a soul would be blown out the window. It is in science's best interest to debunk anything paranormal, as it threatens the very core and foundation of science itself.

 

Anyway, that is just my thoughts on it.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Dubious

[Ælex]

How is that relevant?  Not all the people on earth believe in ghosts. I would say it is pretty much well divided.

It was just an example.

 

You will find if you research, that paranormal doesn't occur only to the religious at all. I am not religious.

 

I never said it happens only to the religious.

You don't have to be religious to know what a ghost is and to be mind-tricked into "seeing" one.

I was merely stating that the phenomenon known as ghosts and spirits was brought into this world by religion.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Ælex

[Dubious]

Sorry but if you believe that millions of people are 'mind tricked'...well that is extremely narrow minded. Besides that there are documented cases of people in cultures with no idea what ghosts are that have seen them.

 

I say to you....

 

Prove to me ghosts don't exist and prove to me that people are 'mind tricked' into seeing them.

 

Edit, religion did not bring ghosts into this world. There are documented cases of ghosts before religion was even mainstream or even existed. Spirits have been seen in every culture since history began.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Dubious

[Ælex]

If you say so.

 

Nothing can be proven at this point, but its fun to discuss.

[Dubious]

I once read an article that said that we see ghosts on a daily basis, but don't distinguish them from the norm.

[Enitsnid]

Prove to me ghosts don't exist and prove to me that people are 'mind tricked' into seeing them.

 

*Cough* I would like to bring up a post I made in this thread a few days ago, but was mostly ignored:

 

My experience: I was driving to see my aunt in oklahoma, but I drove more slowly than I had hoped, so I had to stop at a hotel overnight. It was about 2:00 AM when the clerk handed me the key to my room. When I fit the key into the slot, I swung the door open to find that someone already had been given the room; thier stuff was all over the bed. As I stood there, feeling embarrased and suprised, the room's occupant called out from the bathroom: "Who's there?" To avoid embarasment, I quickly sprinted down the hall and hid beside the ice machine until I heard the door close again. Then I went down and complained about the mix-up to the guy behind the desk. I got a new key and retired to my room for the night.

 

The next morning, I went down to eat my continental breakfast, and I overheard the guy at the next table telling his buddy about his "paranormal" experience the night before. Apparently his door had opened of its own accord, and when he went to answer it, no one was there. He chalked this up to the work of spirits, while I sat choking with laughter at the other table.

 

So, in my experience, people are too willing to believe in paranormal activity, rather than understand that there might be a perfectly reasonable (albeit unusual) explaination.

 

 

[dragon_mando]

Enitsnid: that is one of the cases that *is* easily confused to be paranormal, but just because that case happened to be you and not a ghost does not explain all cases. What of other testimonies in this thread where a person was completely alone in their own home and they saw the people walk through the door, then disappear?

[TwilightMoonDragon]

I have a few ghosts in this home. The time I first moved to Jersey, when I was around six and my mother was expecting my brother, we started to get rid of junk that was left behind. A few days after we moved in, my grandma found something omnious; a spell book and things you expect to see in a witchcraft ritual. We ignored it until then. Then things got spooky a few years back. Two forms of men stalk me and my mother till this day. The tallest one likes to shake my bed when I'm asleep. The short one wanders around the home and likes to watch my mother do her daily chores. Well. That wasn't that bad, right?

 

Then things got worse since last Christmas. Random, short, and often quarrels appear in my home. My brother and I fight about the stupidest of things. Animals just dropped dead in my kitchen (including a baby beardie I had.) and more. I no longer think that this house is haunted alone; I have a theory that it is haunted AND cursed by its former owners.

[Nerendier]

Enitsnid: that is one of the cases that *is* easily confused to be paranormal, but just because that case happened to be you and not a ghost does not explain all cases. What of other testimonies in this thread where a person was completely alone in their own home and they saw the people walk through the door, then disappear?

Hallucinations. Falling asleep. I have these experiences all the time. I'll be tired, dozing off in my chair, and I'll see someone or something become incorporeal or just act ghostly. I often have waking dreams/nightmares. Some people suggest that what I'm seeing is real, just not in our plane of existence. Does that mean that I am actually using a kundalini shakti? Probably not. Probably I'm just crazy or that I am just so fatigued from life that this occurs.

Naturally, I take the approach that I cannot prove my hallucinations are real or tangible, therefore I will consider it to be an over-active imagination, until I can find evidence that supports it otherwise.

Now, have stranger things happened than the paranormal? Maybe. I mean, there was a creature during I think the cambrian period that was so fantastic that nobody believed it to exist, and it was known in the scientific community as "Hallucinigenia" or w/e, because there was so little evidence to support this creature's existence (or former existence) that they considered it to be nothing more than whimsical fantasy.

[dragon_mando]

Hallucinations. Falling asleep. I have these experiences all the time. I'll be tired, dozing off in my chair, and I'll see someone or something become incorporeal or just act ghostly. I often have waking dreams/nightmares. Some people suggest that what I'm seeing is real, just not in our plane of existence. Does that mean that I am actually using a kundalini shakti? Probably not. Probably I'm just crazy or that I am just so fatigued from life that this occurs.

Naturally, I take the approach that I cannot prove my hallucinations are real or tangible, therefore I will consider it to be an over-active imagination, until I can find evidence that supports it otherwise.

Now, have stranger things happened than the paranormal? Maybe. I mean, there was a creature during I think the cambrian period that was so fantastic that nobody believed it to exist, and it was known in the scientific community as "Hallucinigenia" or w/e, because there was so little evidence to support this creature's existence (or former existence) that they considered it to be nothing more than whimsical fantasy.

What about someone who has no history of hallucinating and they are wide awake? It still happens to them, too.

[Nerendier]

What about someone who has no history of hallucinating and they are wide awake? It still happens to them, too.

Still could be hallucinations, just people don't want to admit that they might be crazy, and it would be easier to rationalize that there are supernatural beings out there, rather than they might have mental issues.

[Elirium]

Still could be hallucinations, just people don't want to admit that they might be crazy, and it would be easier to rationalize that there are supernatural beings out there, rather than they might have mental issues.

Or its in the case that the mental disorder is telling you that they are supernatural beings rather than something rational, as is the case with me.

 

[dragon_mando]

The same could be the other way around, too though. Some of it *could* be the paranormal, but a person rationalizes that it can't be and the heating/AC just happened to screw up right then or there just happened to be a breeze or their eyes just happened to play tricks with them. My point is that there's no way to prove it either way.

[chuhulil]

My mom doesn't believe in ghosts, because she's never seen proof. I've seen so much proof in my 13 years of living, and she's seen none in her half century of living. I guess I'm just lucky...

[Elirium]

Or you're just looking in the wrong/right places. (Depending how you see it)

 

EDIT: Anyways, back on topic, childhood invisible "friends", anyone?

 

Technically not paranormal, but are often claimed to be "spirit guides", "ghosts", and other such things because children are pure of heart/see clearly. What did you have?

 

I remember having "ghost friends" (Yeah, that's really what I called them, I was a weird kid >_>) that lived in the shedroom in the basement. (Shedroom is a room in your house that you use because you don't have a shed to place the brooms/hoes/shovels/other outdoorsey things). Never really remember talking to them, though.

 

[dragon_mando]

I had one until I was 18. He called himself Rhyan. I attribute more to an active imagination though.

[Qwackie]

I once read an article that said that we see ghosts on a daily basis, but don't distinguish them from the norm.

I don't believe in ghosts at all, but that's a pretty cool concept... e__e

[Wookieinmashoo]

Me and my cousin where screwing around with her camera and we took some pictures of the fireflies outside. But the, when we looked at the pictures one of the fireflies wasn't a firefly, it was a fary! It was a small person with wing surrounded by a ball of light. It was wierd.

Ummm....for one thing, you should never trust photography. I have a friend who is a photographer and I learned that it is easy to create "illusions", whether by accident or on purpose. Second, you might want to do some research on fairy folklore before thinking anything that's a tiny person with wings is a fairy

 

I don't consider cameras (video cameras are ok) to be reliable sources, neither do I consider human senses reliable sources. The only time I would consider an "experience" enough to be possibly paranormal is if there is more than one person there to witness it, and if both "witnesses" do not discuss what they saw and instead both privately tell a third party (who was not there to witness the event) of what they saw. If both stories are similar then I would think it was less likely to be human mistake. Video cameras are better, but it really doesn't matter what's recorded, there will be people who will deem it fake anyway. It somewhat reminds me of the more blindly religious people who can only repeat "no it's not" to anything a non believer might say.

 

It's not only religious people who believe in "ghosts" or paranormal activity. In fact, as far as I know, ghosts would contradict their beliefs so they don't believe in them.

 

Edited, because I hate the emoticons.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Wookieinmashoo

[paradoxangel]

I believe, but only because I've been haunted and experienced things so excessively that it's impossible not to.