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As far as I can see, Moffat is responding to fans. But the problem with Doctor Who is the very large, very wide fan-base - so that means there's a lot of fans to please, and not all of them will be.

 

As I said before. I don't see his female characters as weak. Thus far Eleven's three female companions have been, in my opinion, rather strong sassy types who I would love to meet up with in RL and have as my own companions - people who won't take my crap without challenging it, people who can look after themselves when needed, and people who do better than me? Sounds like my kind of girlfriend. Yes, they all have damsel-in-distress moments, but so does the Doctor and everyone else.

 

And I don't think Rory was under-used; he certainly gets quality for his airtime.

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To be honest, i'm glad that Amy and Rorry are no longer part of the DW universe.

 

Moffat's episodes were never that enjoyable to me, to many flaws in logic and he used to many antiquated, cheap tricks in his storytelling. Like, how often did he used that bad "deus ex machina" scheme? Whatever absurd situation he brought his protagonists in, he just introduced a new character or started breaking yet another established rule just so he won't have to think of an proper ending.

 

He just turned DW into an third class children TV show, thats all you can say about that.

 

 

 

There were a few quite enjoyable episodes with Matt Smith, like "Vincent and the Doctor", "The Curse of the Black Spot", the episodes around "The Flesh" and "The God Complex", but do you know what those episodes had in common?

 

Right. Steven Moffat wasn't the author.

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There were a few quite enjoyable episodes with Matt Smith, like "Vincent and the Doctor", "The Curse of the Black Spot", the episodes around "The Flesh" and "The God Complex", but do you know what those episodes had in common?

Funnily enough, they were some of my least-enjoyable episodes, and for my other half. But as ever, Doctor Who is one of the ultimate examples of YMMV. *shrug*

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I'm not watching Doctor Who to pick fault at it. I love the show.

 

And the 'don't like, don't look' argument is the poorest way for someone to shrug away a criticism. It's not a clever rebuke. It's rude. I hate it when someone takes one side-glance at a critique and then tosses it to the wayside like that.

 

The reason I'm being so critical towards what Moffat is doing is because I KNOW what the show has been capable of in the past and I know how wonderful it can be sometimes. Moffat is making changes that I do not like, and some changes are downright offensive--offensive to my intelligence and offensive to me, personally, because he's classified women as 'needy'--among other rude adjectives.

 

And the reason I'm posting my opinions on here is because this is the 'Doctor Who' discussion thread. It's for discussion. That includes critiques and concerns. I'm not breaking any rules by posting criticism for a show in a thread about the show in question.

your comments make it seem otherwise

 

It's not 'rude', it's 'blunt'. I'm not trying to be clever, I'm trying to keep the thread for discussion of the episodes rather than post after post of arguments and mindless bashing.

 

Changes you don't like, eh? that's called LIFE. and I don't quite understand how you're offended by it. Actually, to be honest, if you're taking it to heart, you probably ARE 'Needy' and those other rude adjectives. You see, it doesn't offend me, because I DON'T see myself as needy, so one random man's opinion of women really has no relevance to my life, and I don't give a damn about that opinion.

 

yeah, discussion. Discussion is some good points and some bad points. You seem to be churning out a list of bad points.

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This is a Dr. Who discussion topic. Liking and disliking the show, raving about and criticizing is both allowed. If you don't like a particular topic or point that crops up, don't participate in it.

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your comments make it seem otherwise

 

It's not 'rude', it's 'blunt'. I'm not trying to be clever, I'm trying to keep the thread for discussion of the episodes rather than post after post of arguments and mindless bashing.

 

Changes you don't like, eh? that's called LIFE. and I don't quite understand how you're offended by it. Actually, to be honest, if you're taking it to heart, you probably ARE 'Needy' and those other rude adjectives. You see, it doesn't offend me, because I DON'T see myself as needy, so one random man's opinion of women really has no relevance to my life, and I don't give a damn about that opinion.

 

yeah, discussion.  Discussion is some good points and some bad points. You seem to be churning out a list of bad points.

Changes you don't like, eh? that's called LIFE. and I don't quite understand how you're offended by it.

The writing in a tv show is not an appropriate allegory for life. Besides, if something in your life changes and you don't like the change, then don't you try to make it better? I'm upset at the recent changes because, as I've stated in a previous comment, I know what the show has been capable of in the past. It was an AMAZING show. And part of the reason it was amazing is because it challenged stereotypes and the attitudes that were held by many people in society. It was a show that was enjoyable for the whole family. Moffat, however, has stated that he views Doctor Who as nothing but a show aimed at a younger audience. This is apparent in his lazy writing. And he hasn't listened to a shred of criticism, shrugging it off as if the people with those concerns don't matter. I've stated before that if Moffat was at least willing to listen, I would be a lot less upset with him and his attitude. However, he has not listened at all.

 

Actually, to be honest, if you're taking it to heart, you probably ARE 'Needy' and those other rude adjectives. You see, it doesn't offend me, because I DON'T see myself as needy, so one random man's opinion of women really has no relevance to my life, and I don't give a damn about that opinion.

The reason Moffat's opinion and portrayal of women is hurtful to me is because, whether you like it or not, society is affected by what it sees on the tv. Every time a show tells its' audience that it's okay to have these sexist ideas and opinions, it makes them less willing to consider how those ideas and opinions might be hurtful to another person or group of people. Sexism in media promotes sexism in real life, which is something I've had issues with for a long time. As a woman, I don't appreciate seeing it.

 

yeah, discussion.  Discussion is some good points and some bad points. You seem to be churning out a list of bad points.

I have no obligation to turn my critiques into a 'sandwich' of good points and bad points. If I am bothered by something, I'm going to bring it up.

 

 

At any rate, I enjoy having these discussions. I apologize to the mods if I got too fired up in some of my previous posts. I will try to keep my opinions and posts more civil from now on while I discuss the show.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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At any rate, I enjoy having these discussions. I apologize to the mods if I got too fired up in some of my previous posts. I will try to keep my opinions and posts more civil from now on while I discuss the show.

Without trying to upset anyone or mini-mod, I don't feel you haven't been civil - and as I've said in our discussions before, I don't mind you disagreeing with me on this.

 

And it *is* a show that was aimed at a younger audience at it's inception, though I personally feel it still has adult themes and tones.

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I'm going to lead by my own example, and follow the very "don't like, don't read" example I advocated. I'll go away now. Bye!

Edited by dracocharky

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I'm kind of late to the discussion, but I did write a post about the sexist comments Moffat made, on Tumblr. Specifically about the "Women are Needy" comment. This includes mentions to Sherlock as well.

 

Here's what I wrote:

"So, apparently there’s all this drama over in the Doctor Who/Sherlock community regarding Moffat. Now, I don’t follow these fandom and I don’t know the whole story but I have read some of the quotes that were fueling the hate. Specifically the one about women being needy. And I had to question why he would say that, considering his current well known characters. I mean, look at The Doctor. He needs companions. He needs people by his side. We’ve seen what happens when he’s alone and it’s not good. Even in canon, it's mentioned that The Doctor alone is never a good thing. And there’s that whole scene where John and Sherlock are discussing being alone versus having friends. Sherlock acknowledges John as his friend. He worries about him, hence the mention of his name when Moriarty threatened those he cared about. There is a need for John to be there (either in friendship or romantic- it’s up to the viewer to decide- but companionship nonetheless). Note that all of these character are MALE.

 

So, basically, Moffat is a speaking contradiction. He talks about women being the needy ones and males being able to be alone for longer yet he writes his male characters with a need to have constant companionship. "

Edited by MysticTiger

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The Doctor was written as needing companionship before Moffat took over as the head writer. I remember Martha Jones trying to explain to 'John Smith' why he needed companions with him all the time and she replied: "...because he's lonely".

 

And we've seen what happens to the Doctor when he doesn't have a companion in The Waters of Mars (in my opinion, one of the best episodes in the new series). His morals and his own sense of self starts to slip when he doesn't have to be mindful of a companion.

 

However, Moffat's taken that and focused ONLY on that--basically flanderizing the Doctor. He puts the companions he's created on a pedestal, yet continues to write them into cliched and unlikeable roles. Like I said in a previous post, he basically reduced Amy to a pair of legs and a uterus. He tried to convince his audience that she was strong and powerful by making his other characters talk about how strong and powerful she was, but he never SHOWED anything to back that up.

 

The fact that he has resorted to 'tell, not show' on so many occasions (for a TV show no less) is another reason I'm frustrated with him.

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Moffat could easily drop the whole "Doctor needs companionship" thing (or made it a very small thing) as soon as Eleven was introduced. I mean, Moffat made sure to drop a lot of stuff that was canon before that. But, instead he made it very important and made sure to point it out constantly.

 

I never really got attached to Amy as a companion, so i'm a little biased when talking about her but I do agree that she wasn't as strong as the series made her out to be and how everyone was talking about how strong she was but she wasn't. "The girl who waited"? So? She really didn't have any endearing qualities that made me like her. Rory, I always thought, was the stronger companion. And, River Song? I never liked her. She just always bothered me. Like she was always scheming something (and technically she was).

 

Donna will forever be my favorite companion, so it's hard for me think of any other companion who i'd like because she was different from the others. I always though Donna complimented the Doctor instead of clinging onto him or swooning over him like the others. Oswin was interesting and I liked her, but it's only been one episode. It's hard to see if they'll do anything else with her.

 

I had a point here, but I think I lost it. n_n;

I think what i'm trying to say is i'm as frustrated as you. I agree that Moffat has a habit of tell, don't show. Although I do like Sherlock, my love of Doctor Who has definitely waned over the years. It's not because of the new doctor. I think Matt Smith is a wonderfully quirky doctor. I think it's because Moffat's writing is so 'off' from Davies that it just created this rift that made it hard for me enjoy the series like I did before. One of those problems was definitely Amy. And River. And especially the way they're written to be.

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So, at my college a few of us DW fans got together. We now have a regular Who dinner on Friday nights. It is an awesome time. lol

 

We also all have pet names of chars from the show. xd.png

I'm River apparently.

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I will be able to watch the new episodes at Thanksgiving break! biggrin.gif

Someone has invited me off campus with them and they are a DW fan. o3o

 

Also

Don't forget to vote! tongue.gif

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I'm still pretty new in the world of Doctor Who, but i am already in love with it. My favourite doctor is the tenth doctor and favourite companion is Rose Tyler. And Daleks are awesome biggrin.gif My country has only SyFy and BBC Entertaiment (or however you write it), so i pretty much watch it online. But SyFy is going to show "Blink" on monday... *waits*

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*sigh*

 

Doctor Who discussion is extremely dangerous at the beat of times. Ever since the new series started in 2005 there has been an endless stream of fighting between different factions within the fandom. With each season that passes the division among fans seems to be getting worse instead of better. I've finally reached the point that I no longer involve myself in the fandom and either enjoy the episodes or not on my own. I do watch the Doctor Who tags on Tumblr though, they seem to be more about the pretty and less about the fighting. I also still read DW fanfic, but will usually stick to the fanfic communities on LiveJournal or search through Teaspoon.

 

That said...

 

Overall I love the show and totally recommend starting at the beginning with the First Doctor, especially if you are a -die hard fan-. Certain scenes are made that much sweeter (or bittersweet) by having the knowledge of what came before.

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*sigh*

 

Doctor Who discussion is extremely dangerous at the beat of times. Ever since the new series started in 2005 there has been an endless stream of fighting between different factions within the fandom.

Don't you mean ever since the First Doctor regenerated? :~P

 

For things like Doctor Who, Star Trek, Stargate and other long-running series' that have such large changes there will always be a split in the fan-base. I personally enjoy every era thus far of the aforementioned series', but I do have favourites as well (such as Matt Smith's era of Dr Who, the Xindi arc and TOS for Star Trek, etc). It's a fact of life in *every* fan-base that there will be splits, and it depends on how accepting the various fans are. YMMV.

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Trailer is out for the Christmas special and new companion.

 

Killer snowmen!

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Trailer is out for the Christmas special and new companion.

 

Killer snowmen!

So I saw. We can now add 'snowmen' to the list of legitimate fears that also includes 'the dark,' 'cracks in my bedroom wall,' 'statues,' and 'silence.'

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I have a Weeping Angel phobia now.

Do. Not. Blink. *is very afraid of darkness, angels and statues now*

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Hahaha, we watched the christmas preview on Children In Need and hubs said "Great, make all the kids scared of snowmen"!

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I have a Weeping Angel phobia now.

Do. Not. Blink. *is very afraid of darkness, angels and statues now*

Then I guess you hate my avatar and signature... If it's any consolation, I'm afraid to go near the statue of liberty now.

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Has anyone ever watched an episode with a non-whovian? Hilarious.

 

I watched Angels Take Manhattan with my dad yesterday. Bad place to pick up the show, and it's really not his type of show to start with.

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Has anyone ever watched an episode with a non-whovian? Hilarious.

 

I watched Angels Take Manhattan with my dad yesterday. Bad place to pick up the show, and it's really not his type of show to start with.

Yeah, I actually showed it to someone who wanted to avoid Doctor Who at all costs. We watched "Let's Kill Hitler" and he's been mad at me for getting him into the series.

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xd.png

 

I just finished the ninth Doctor and started with tenth. So.

 

Daleks-Awesome.

Cybermen-Terrible.

Weeping angels-*scared*.

"Weakest Link-Android edition"-I will never watch "Weakest Link" again.

Bananas- Good source of potassium.

People wearing gas masks- Don't touch.

Fat people- Where is the vinegar?

Werewolves- Where is mistletoe?

Screwdrivers- Is it sonic?

etc.

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I don't think Blink is the scariest episode. I actually think it's 'the time of angels'. That is pretty creepy Oo

 

I can't really choose a favorite episode but I do love 'The Girl in the Fireplace', 'Voyage of the Damned' (the first episode I ever saw!) and Gridlock! Those are amazing!

 

I've tried to convice some of my friends to watch it but apparently I run around with the wrong people. No one really want to watch it with me except my ex-boyfriend who now lives too far away for it to be possible xd.png

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