Doctor Who

[NixAyum]

So, Dinosaurs on a Spaceship.

 

I liked Asylum ok, but damn I LOVED this episode. Everyone being badass, some foreshadowing, some flirting, lots of funny. And for a change it wasn't all about the T-Rex "oh noes they're gonna eat us!". Tricey though.

Edited September 9, 2012 by NixAyum

[futuregohangurl]

i liked the 9th doctor cant spell his name and david tennant was awesome too. i havent seen much of matt smith but i have heard of good things and a little bad.

[Wantdew]

I watched Asylum of the Daleks.

 

I was so disappointed and underwhelmed that it wasn't even funny. Moffat still doesn't know how to write good female characters and there were so many blatant PLOT HOLES and questions that needed answering but weren't even touched.

Spoilers in the quote.

 

 

Moffat's already done some things with the show that I'm not happy about. One example is having the Doctor call Amy 'Legs'. I can't even IMAGINE the Ninth or Tenth Doctor speaking like that. They respect women too much to do that. Moffat is turning the Doctor into his own mouthpiece. Matt Smith is a marvelous actor and his performance is one of the only things that is saving the show for me, but I'm getting sick of Moffat's poor writing and his wish-fulfillment characters (Like River Song).

 

Moffat did some marvelous things back when he was only a co-writer. He wrote "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances" and "Blink". Those were great episodes. But as soon as he became the head writer, things...changed. And I'm not happy with it.

NO.

 

You do relies the each Doctor is a completely different person, yet still the same person?

[Cori]

NO.

 

You do relies the each Doctor is a completely different person, yet still the same person?

That doesn't excuse number Eleven's sudden decision to refer to Amy as 'Legs' or this little gem of dialogue:

 

“I don’t get it, one minute she wants to marry you, the next minute she wants to kill you!”

 

“She’s been brainwashed, it probably makes sense to her. Plus, she’s a woman. Oh, shut up!”

 

...yeah. Real respectful there.

I don't expect Matt Smith to be the same Doctor as Eccleston or Tennant, or any Doctor before them. I SAID his acting was good. But Moffat is turning the Doctor into his own personal mouthpiece and that's not good writing.

[DarkEternity]

You do relies the each Doctor is a completely different person, yet still the same person?

For clarity (as the above is extremely contradictory): each incarnation of the Doctor is the same person, with different aspects of the personality coming to the fore.

 

Spoilers

I watched Asylum. I agree with Jackal, all Moffat's female characters are exactly the same. All of them spout wisecracks and flirt, but at least it's a good template which is rather likeable in all its iterations.

 

Skaro is supposed to have been obliterated by the Hand of Omega AND in the Timelock. Even if the EDAs retconned it away by stating that Antalin was blown up instead.

 

As for telepathic Daleks, I have not absorbed up OldWho yet but on another forum, 'Death to the Daleks' apparently depicts them as telepaths.

 

I don't even care about Amy and Rory's relationship, it's not part of the plot and I am tired of Moffat talking about her fertility issues. It sounds scripted and none of the dialogue between the two is naturalistic. She already has a kid - River.

 

Moffat couldn't have possibly revealed that Oswin is a Dalek without the voice. However, my personal interpretation is that Oswin was transmitting with her mind and not her physical voice. In any case, it doens't matter - he pulled the same trick with Silence in the Library and the 'people' within something else was already done with the Tesselector. But the flaws of the episode are ultimately overshadowed by the genius of the episode.

 

Oswin as a Dalek is handled faultlessly and without excessive corniness. The foreshadowing and pacing is excellent. I love the way that Moffat deals with the concept of reality and Oswin's lucidity in her 'bubble universe', and the hints of Dalekness intruding on her personal space and the metaphoric barrier she sets up in her mind. The juxtaposition of aspects of the real world -particularly the ballerina in her world contrasted against Amy the 'ballerina' is fantastic. My favourite part is when Amy begins to see Daleks as people - because she is turning into a Dalek herself. The nuances of this episode are handled extremely well, and the souffles added a nice and particularly human dimension to Oswin's character.

 

Moffat also has another brainstrain for people who are on top of the credits. Jenna-Louise Coleman is scheduled to appear in the Christmas special as the new companion who will be called Clara Oswin. In Asylum, the character is called Oswin Oswald.

Edited September 9, 2012 by DarkEternity

[pinkieseb]

Noooo!!! Missed the first new episode D:

[Quinney]

Oh, I'm enjoying these - Dr. Who as it should be!

[Kestra15]

Before I reply, two things:

 

1. Doctor Who has always been YMMV, moreso than any other TV series because of how long it has been around, how many different directions it has been taken in by so many different people. So I am not too fussed about your not liking this and that is fair enough - everyone has an era or a Doctor they prefer. Which leads on to point two...

 

2. I love Matt Smith's era, and I love Moffat's writing.

 

Now, onto your post. The biggest thing that struck me is how you think that Moffat is apparently anti-women; I personally don't see that, and I certainly don't see it from his characters or your examples.

 

River Song - A woman smart and sassy enough that she makes the Doctor heel from time to time, she is a great foil for the Doctor. She doesn't accept his rubbish, she calls him time and again on his attitude, his choices, how he sees himself. She is certainly his better in some respects - she can work the TARDIS like a dream, after all - and she is also a little scary. I mean, the Daleks do see the Doctor as the Oncoming Storm, but River managed to make one beg for mercy. The Doctor doesn't even inspire that response from one.

 

As for the marriage...yes, I think it is in part a marriage of convenience. The history books said that she and the Doctor are married, and when the Doctor pulled his little stunt at the end of Series Six to try and fool all of Time and Space that he was in fact dead, that was a loose end to tie up - it was already established that they were married before his death. So he had to marry her more to tie up the loose end. But also I think there is a love there - for example at the Battle of Demon's Run. He completely lets loose on River because he was let down by her, disappointed - and as someone with anger management issues, I know I can be like that to my girlfriend when she lets me down. And to be so flirtatious with her in a way we've not seen before, to keep coming back for her time and again...yes, in part it may be guilt. He's ruined her life - caused her birth, her kidnapping, her brain-washing, her incarceration, and eventually her death - so maybe he's doing all he can to make it up to her. But at the same time I think he genuinely cares for her, as much if not more so than her mother. Which leads me to...

 

Amy Pond - the Doctor loves her, more so than any other character I think (with the exception of River). It's well-established across Dr Who continuity that when the Doctor drops off a companion that's it, he leaves for ever. Comes along, gives them the time of their life, causes some emotional trauma along the way, then dumps them at the wrong end of the UK. But to come back time and again for Amy Pond...he knows he ruined her life too, and again maybe it's guilt. But I think he really, genuinely cares about the Girl Who Waited, and her husband too. Look at the end to the Xmas Special, and Pond Life - he is family to them, their best friend. They accept him over for dinner, they don't mind him dropping by time and again (Pond Life gave the impression that he visits them often, even if they don't go travelling as much), he is a part of their lives even though they don't take part in his any more.

 

And Amy is a strong, if a little dark, character. She has brought back people swallowed by the Cracks in the Universe - her parents, even the Doctor himself. She can perceive a little outside of the regular confines of time, which is established throughout Season Five. She, like her mother, stands up to the Doctor - think Demon's Run, and I look forward to watching her apparently chew the Doctor out in 'A Town Called Mercy' - and knows him well enough to confront him, not aggressively but certainly doesn't always let him get away with it. And then of course there's how she treats Madame Kovarian at the end of Series Six, and pulling a gun on River - she's a little dark, a little unstable I think, but still from a position of strength rather than damsel in distress, which is what female companions do have a habit of becoming from time to time. So both female Ponds come across, to me, as strong characters who as often help and sometimes even save the Doctor as much as he saves them.

 

Now, calling Amy 'the Legs' - I don't see that as sexist, given he in the same breath calls Rory 'the Nose.' The joke for both of them is based on their defining physical characteristics, much as I joke about my girlfriend being extremely tall. Karen Gillan is 5' 11, which is reasonably tall, and is quite leggy - aside from her red hair it seems to be her main physical characteristic, and she has a tendency to wear short skirts and tights/leggings, which accent the fact she is quite leggy. Much like for poor Arthur having his massive nose, and Matt's chin. Between the cast, off-set, much is made about Arthur's nose and Matt's chin, which translates into the TV series (in Series Five, notice how often the Doctor mimes a large nose when he refers to Rory, and in the latest episode Oswin makes similar comments about the Doctor's chin). So I don't think that calling her 'the Legs' was a sexist remark - it was, like friends do, a small jibe.

 

As to plot holes:

 

Doctor Who is *full* of time-travel plot-holes. Every episode contradicts a previous episode somewhere along the line, which is the trouble with such long-standing TV shows and especially in a show which deals with time-travel, where there are no rules. So I think you always have to watch an episode with that in mind - when time-travel comes about, expect there to be a contradiction.

 

I agree with Skaro being time-locked and is my only real gripe with the episode; if the whole Time-War is time-locked, why can the Doctor now access Skaro itself? Then again consider that since the time-lock was established;

 

- Gallifrey was pulled out of the time-lock in it's entirety.

- Dalek Caan broke the time-lock at the cost of his sanity, but managed to bring Davros out of the time-lock mentally intact and without further damage. Thus from these two points it's clear you can break the time-lock.

- Time and Space has collapsed twice in the last two series - I'm sure that might have done some damage to the time-lock!

- Daleks always survive, somehow. They've always managed to hide somewhere, somehow.

 

But putting aside that problem, I think it was otherwise a brilliant episode.

 

Relationships can be fixed that quickly - honestly. Amerylis and I have had so many troubles over the years and issues can put pressure on us for months, even years, that nearly break our relationship. And we can fix them in one quick conversation. Why? Because mis-communication can cause such horrendous break-downs, but the moment you clear it up suddenly the whole situation can sometimes be fixed. Now, I don't think Moffat is trying to say that the Ponds are now in perfect matrimony again, but he can't afford to spend several months worth of episodes showing them patch up the relationship, because that's not the point. He offers us a snapshot into their lives, and he showed us a couple struggling in their relationship and also showing them on the road to recover. This isn't Eastenders, where we can spend half an hour a day for two weeks watching them patch things up after all.

 

People say things like that in arguments. From Rory's perspective he does feel like he loves her more, that Amy is not as committed. Rory spent 2,000yrs waiting for her and still loves her - she disappeared off for 40yrs in a time-stream and came to hate him. When you feel your partner is not as committed it does come out aggressively, because you feel like you have given up so, so much for someone and yet they cannot do the smaller gestures in return - and these two have been taken to the extremes. As for the rest - again, mis-communication. Amy, apparently, hasn't told Rory why she can't have kids, but instead has probably said she doesn't want them or refused to ever discuss it - so if she's not going to discuss it, how could they talk about adoption et al?

 

Oswin didn't work. She was supposed to become a genius Dalek - probably the next Dalek Supreme - but instead she was that intelligent and strong, she remained very human. So they locked her away with all the other Daleks that have gone wrong (again, a strong female character from Moffat - aside from being funny and witty, she's also cleverer than the Doctor and strong enough to resist becoming a Dalek. So you insinuation that Moffat thinks females are weak doesn't seem to fly here either, in my opinion).

 

No, the point of the 'Who do you think?' in the trailer was more a challenge to the audience; do you think it was the Doctor, or Amy? I personally thought it was the Doctor all along. After all, it's a teaser trailer - it's supposed to tease us, to make us suppose and guess. Sometimes you guess wrong, like you did, but that's no reason to get angry.

 

Did you watch 'Pond Life?' Between that and what they talked about in this episode, I personally feel the stresses between the Ponds has been building up for a while - and like in all long-term relationships, the older issues resurface too. The Ponds have never had an easy time of it, if you think right back to 'Vampires in Venice' where they're very frosty to each other, and all their little spats since. So I don't think it's out of the blue and I, personally, felt very upset to see the Ponds at breaking point, as did most of my fellow Eleventh fans. But again this YMMV, in the same way that I got very tired of Rose and Tenth Doctor and didn't feel any emotional investment in them, but other people were practically crying when the two were separated in 'Doomsday.' So please understand I don't dislike you for your view or find it any less valid just because I'm a massive fan of the Pond and you're not - we all have our loves and hates.

 

And finally, wiping the memories of the Daleks...yes, a risky move. But like you said one that can be retconned rather easily; back-up storage, a Progenator device, any number of easily-available plot devices can ret-con that decision without losing face. I personally think that actually Moffat has given us a big clue as to why it is important that 'Silence Must Fall.' If you consider - Dorium's question to the Doctor at the end of the previous series was 'Doctor Who?' - the self-same question the Daleks asked the Doctor, and the Doctor was seen repeating - word for word in the style of Dorium - at the end of the episode. I think the important of Silence falling is to stop the Daleks, the Doctor's greatest enemy (bar the Master), from remembering who the Doctor is. This episode the Daleks established that they were only such a terrible, powerful force of evil because the Doctor forced them too; much like Kovarian said at Demon's Run, there is an endless, bitter war against the Doctor from many sides, and the Daleks are certainly the worst of all. Now they've forgotten the Doctor, will they be so terrible? And if they were suddenly to remember...

 

Eternity, I agree entirely with your paragraph about souffles!

 

Now, to lighten the mood, I just remembered this little gem from Argumental: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OIFvT9TvVA

 

(Two minor incidents of bad language by my count).

[Quasismiles]

So so happy right now...

[Skellybones]

Dinosaurs. On a spaceship!

Love how that comes up second when you search dinosaur on google

[_Charky]

we're very cross with you!

 

that will be all.

[Cori]

Kestra, your post made a lot of sense and I respect your opinion, but I still don't like what Moffat does with the show a lot of the time.

 

For one thing, I hate River Song's character. She's a 'Wonderbaby': her existence was revealed through a series of poorly-written excuses and wound up being both the Pond's kid and having the ability to regenerate like a Gallifreyan. She was kidnapped at birth to be made into a weapon against the doctor, instantly making her the center of the plot AND removing the need to write the Ponds actually having to raise their baby.

So she's better and more powerful than both her parents, winds up at the center of conflict, and magically became an adult off-screen so Moffat didn't have to bother with writing for a small child. She also hooks up with the Doctor, who seemed like he only decided to marry her to shut her up. Sure there might have been some affection there, but it's not developed for very long.

 

I hated that the Daleks were so afraid of her. What did she do to make them afraid? Nothing, really. The Doctor did a lot more in his constant fights with the Daleks, and they still don't fear him enough to beg for mercy.

So why, then, are they so afraid of River Song? To make her seem awesome and cool on-screen. Because she's better than everyone. She's practically an in-canon Mary Sue. Her whole purpose is wish fulfillment for Moffat.

Not to mention the nauseating catchphrase, "Hello sweetie". Guh.

 

I never claimed that Moffat hated was anti-woman, but he certainly can't write well for women characters. They're all the same, really: sassy, snarky, smarter than their male counterparts yet still the butt of jokes referring to mood swings and violence. The companions before Moffat's time as head writer all had distinct personalities and I loved them--some more than others.

 

I think the only companion Moffat wrote for that I liked was Craig. Craig was cool. I want to see more of him, not just one-shots here and there.

 

Moving away from my complaints about the companions, I read a post the other day that really highlighted my problem with Moffat's writing:

He doesn't really seem to try new things that often! Most of his episodes fall back on old cliches. Hey, let's do a pirate episode! And then a vampire episode! Except they were aliens all along, how shocking!

He's afraid of thinking outside the box. And all of his recent episodes are so...big. The whole universe is at stake yet again, there's giant spaceships everywhere, things exploding...part of the old Doctor Who was leaving some things up to the imagination of the audience, and many of the episodes never actually took place in space. The episode 'Fear Her' was a great episode, and almost all of it took place in a girl's bedroom. Not everything needs to be large scale to be exciting and entertaining. I loved 'The Girl Who Waited'. Yeah, it took place on another planet but its' setting was still isolated, quiet, and desolate. There was nothing big-scale going on, the planet wasn't about to explode and take its' solar system with it.

 

Also, Moffat has heard people's concerns about his writing and has done nothing about it--not even making a counter-argument. He refused to read one person's post and passed it off as 'verbal abuse', ignoring all of the person's concerns and questions.

His refusal to listen to criticism is part of what's really hurting him, because if a person only listens to people who like what they already do, then they'll never be able to improve on anything. An artist without a critic will go nowhere.

[Kestra15]

iPlayer doesn't have 'Dinosaurs on a Spaceship' up yet! Now very cross with Amerylis for not being home and not letting me watch it.

 

Jackal, I'm happy for us to agree on disagreeing about Moffat - I've said my piece and I still interpret it in a different light to you, but I do see why you would dislike it. As for going back to 'old cliches' though, I think that it's the fun side of these series - we've gone back to playing with 'traditional' styles like Westerns, dinosaurs, pirates etc - something they seemed to do more before the new series.

 

Now, iPlayer *needs* to load that darn episode!

[_Charky]

Jackal: now, I thought the newer Craig episode was TERRIBLE. Especially the whole "oh, emotions reverse the cyberman-ing process!" bit. bleh.

 

Kestra: really? I watched it on On Demand at lunch time O.o

[Kestra15]

Jackal: now, I thought the newer Craig episode was TERRIBLE. Especially the whole "oh, emotions reverse the cyberman-ing process!" bit. bleh.

I loved it. Especially Stormaggedon.

[Cori]

I never voiced any opinion on the Craig episodes. All I said was that I liked Craig's character and wanted to see more of it.

 

The last episode with Craig was incredibly cheesy, but it was funny, too. I enjoyed it.

[Kestra15]

Spoilers.

 

'Dinosaurs on a Spaceship' is probably the must fun I've had watching Doctor Who in a while. I loved it to bits - and it helped that the beginning scene not only had epic backing music, but was also very 'Avengers Assemble' nature.

 

TV Tropes will ruin your life - kicking the puppy (or the triceratops!) really was a quick way to make me hate the bad guy. And I am glad that I'm not the only nurse who carries a mini first-aid kit!

 

I noticed the introduction changed again slightly; last week, the 'Doctor Who' in the title sequence was very Dalek-esque, this week green and scaly. I'm not sure I want to know what the Angels episode will be like.

 

And I think there was a lot of foreshadowing there...I'm starting to think that 'Doctor Who?' really does relate to who the Doctor is - there seems to be a pattern developing of the Doctor disappearing. He wants to disappear from time (end of Series 6) and fools reality into thinking he's dead. He is erased from the Dalek database. He's not in the 'universal Argos.' He's becoming less and less frequent in the Ponds' life. I think what Moffat is trying to do is to make the whole thing about the Fields of Trenzalor about who is the Doctor - that he's structuring the Doctor to phase away, disappear, become legend.

 

And last of all I see the Doctor is becoming much darker; he didn't even offer the prospector a chance at life, just consigned him to death. I personally was shocked by that rather callous choice of his - but then again, another strand in the recent Series' has been about how the Doctor is slowly slipping down the moral slope again. We know that we should soon see the rise of the Valeyard, we know the Dream Lord is the manifestation of the Doctor's darker side, and time and again reference has been made to the Doctor's self-loathing and much darker nature. But this...it's on the level of 'Timelord Victorious,' and I can't help but feel it's a step away from the Master's mentality.

 

Not that it's a complaint at all - I think it's a rather natural development for the Doctor's character. But we've already seen in the next episode the Doctor will apparently make a very dark decision that is a departure from his normal forgiving self...and I'm interested in seeing how this will pan out.

[NixAyum]

Quick thing about the intro, it's going to be a new one every week for this season. :3 I totally thought this one looked like a hedge/bush, but alas, streaming quality.

 

I want to throw Nefertiti into this discussion on female characters, plz. I've seen conflicting opinions on her. One that she was a rather independent and strong-willed lady who didn't take no crap and made her own choice or that she was written in as a plot device bargaining chip and couldn't /not/ end up with the man.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I got some spoilers from my friends last night, and I will not talk of it. The only thing I can say: I cannot wait for the Christmas special.

[KrystalSharz]

How did I never notice a DW topic??? *facepalm*

I will be posting a lot in this topic....

 

Oh um... anyone think that The Master might be coming back?

I think he will and I have some ideas why and who/where he'll come from. But what is everyone's thoughts on that?

[Moonlight_Eevee]

How did I never notice a DW topic??? *facepalm*

I will be posting a lot in this topic....

 

Oh um... anyone think that The Master might be coming back?

I think he will and I have some ideas why and who/where he'll come from. But what is everyone's thoughts on that?

I don't think he can come back. Have you seen the episode: "The End of Time"? If you haven't then you need to see it

[Kestra15]

I don't think he can come back. Have you seen the episode: "The End of Time"? If you haven't then you need to see it

We didn't see what actually happened to the Master. And I doubt they will write off the Master, one of the Doctor's greatest foes.

[Lagie]

He actually mentions The Master in this episode (A Town Called Mercy).

I'm bored, and it's barely half finished.

[velkie]

Finally, I found the topic!

 

 

My favorite episode is empty child. When I showed it to my friends they all screamed >W<

 

 

 

I really want a sonic screwdriver. REALLY. BAD.

 

 

 

Well, not that bad though.

On BBC they only show it at like, 4:00, 9:00, and 11:00.

 

 

I always miss it. >M<

[satyr76]

I was really disappointed in the last episode. It just idn't have that spark, and the plot was a little confusing. The nexxt episode looks promising, though. c: