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Delphine

Stop BSL Lineage

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I have right now

2 spitfires

and 4 Hellfires

I can't breed them right now due to havign 5 hatchlings but when I can I shall

 

Edit: Ah yes greys are rather angery things. I'll add them to the list.

Edited by Delphine

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Weird. Here in Italy we had a dangerous breeds list, but then the government decided to train dangerous dogs owners instead.

Edited by Lizzyluna

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I hate to be off-topic but this relates to it. I've never heard of them trying to ban dogs. I've also never heard of them trying to ban labs. I mean I know pit bulls aren't all that liked cuz of idiots that want to make them fight but a Lab?

Edited by demonicvampiregirl

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I live near a city who banned the sweet bully breed. The saddest part is the ones who are supposed to enforce the law don't even know what the breed they banned LOOK LIKE!! They tazered and killed a BOXER thinking it was a bully!

I would love to sign up but I have a question. Are we allowed to freeze in this linage? If not I'll have to wait until I can catch some separate CB of the dragons listed.

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Can I join? I have an unnamed CB magi, I didn't know what to name him, but now I know: after the sweetest dog I've ever known, my aunt's pit bull terrier

Edited by Autana

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Here's an all too common comment from some one who has bought into the hype.

 

"on 16 Jul 2010, hedonist86 wrote:

 

the expression "it's the deed not the breed" is a cop-out; no different than the NRA's "guns don't kill people, people kill people". if i understand it correctly, its position is that it's alright to have a dangerous, unpredictable, poorly-trained predator in your possession, so long as it doesn't actually attack anyone - and until it does, you should have some sort of fundamental right to its ownership. does this mean i get to own a tiger?

 

if people in this city want a family pet or companion, they can get a spaniel, or a labrador, or a setter, or any one of hundreds of practical, good-natured, friendly breeds. the reason people have these pit bulls (oh, sorry, staffie crosses) is to intimidate people, pure and simple. " (Since I started my pet sitting business the only breed of dog to bite me has been a chocolate lab. So glad this person views them as one of the practical, good-natured, friendly breeds. )

 

It relates to the UK's Dangerous Dog Act of 91 that has recently seen to adding dedicated police officers called Dog Legislation Officers who can knock on your door and seize your dog at will if it's one of the four banned breeds or a mix of one of those breeds.

 

It was the UK's law and the seizure of a Great Dane mix who was locked in it's owner's car but not muzzled that drew my attention to the absurdity of BSL. Keep in mind that in the UK Great Danes are not one of the banned breeds but some police official thought the dog looked like a Pitt so they seized it. The owner had records proving that the dog was of Dane background but the authorities refused to release the dog and were looking to euthanize it while running up a kenneling bill that the owner was responsible for. I followed the case for months in which the dog remained incarcerated but I don't recall what the outcome was.

 

This was back in 91 or 92 but a couple of months ago a woman had a Dog Legislation Officer knock on her door and seize her 11 month old dog. She might be able to get the dog back if she is deemed responsible and the dog is properly socialized but that seems very subjective to me.

 

I will never be ready for European laws.

 

 

As soon as one of my eggs hatches I'm going to try to breed my blacks for a second gen BSL "pup".

Edited by Sir Barton

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Count me in. I adore my pit bull 8D I've always been opposed to BSL...:/ Trias is the friendliest dog you'd ever meet. He's also super timid.

 

Additionally, hedonist86 you're quoting there might want to know that labs are on that list as well.

Edited by rayquaza7996

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@demonicvampiregirl: I know, they would prefer you never hear about it but many dogs have been taken from owners and killed already. The lab was put on the list more recently because it is a large dog and the people who make the BSL list beleive all large dogs are dangerous dogs. I mean the Great Dane is the gentle giant yet it was put on the list as well. If you are a dog owner you should start reading up on it right now and become aware, it is your right as a dog owner to know and your right to try and stop it from happening to your dog.

 

@Errant Mist: Certainly you may freeze, nothing wrong with that.

 

@Autana: Sure, that would be nice. Name that little Magi ^-^

 

@Sir Barton:OMG, that is scary ya they can pretty much take any dog if they really want to claiming it 'looks' like another one of the breeds. They could take my min pin if they wanted to saying it looks like a dob. BSL has that list of dogs but in reality every dog is in danger. They can and will go after every dog if they are allowed.

Edited by Delphine

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You hit the nail on the head right there, Delphine. They will go after every dog. Let's face it, any dog can cause damage to a human so no dog is actually 'safe.' Chihuahuas can be just as dangerous as pittbulls if not more so because people tend to cuddle them close to their faces while they are wary of pitties. If BSLs get a foot hold by banning just one breed it will be easier for the next breed to be restricted or banned; snowball effect and no dog, purebred or mutt, will be safe.

 

 

Edit: Just found this new interesting tidbit.

The Blue Cross (Britain's Pet Charity)  was shocked to hear the suggestion that certain types of dogs should be shot to save on kennel costs.

 

Former Metropolitan Police Authority chairman Lord Harris has argued that dogs seized under the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act (DDA) should be put down to save money.

 

Chief veterinary surgeon at our Hammersmith animal hospital, Richard Green, says: “Many dogs seized and kennelled by the police under section 1 of the DDA have committed no greater offence than looking a certain way.  “While some may be a danger to the public, many are not, and will be rightly returned to their owners.”

 

Richard adds: “I share Lord Harris’s concerns about the lengthy process for courts to decide the fate of these dogs, not least because kennelling them for protracted periods of time is a serious compromise to their welfare as well as a burden to the public purse. “But I fail to see how allowing police to act as judge, jury and summary executioner would in any way improve the current situation.”

 

Defra is currently undertaking a full review of the Dangerous Dogs Act, as called for by The Blue Cross and many other animal welfare charities.

 

Richard says : “I would urge Lord Harris to support these efforts to establish a clearer, fairer, more practical and enforceable legal framework for dealing with dangerous dogs, without the need for a firing squad.”

 

The Blue Cross is one of many organisations that fervently believes the Dangerous Dogs Act has completely failed.

 

The law, introduced in 1991 and revised in 1997, was designed to protect the public following a spate of attacks by aggressive or uncontrollable dogs. But in the last five years, the number of dog bite incidents has actually risen by 79 per cent in London and 43 per cent nationally. It is widely believed that the Act is one of the most ineffective pieces of government legislation ever brought into force.

 

We are part of the Dangerous Dogs Act Study Group (DDASG) which has lobbied against the inadequacies of the Act for many years.

 

The group is backing a new, hard-hitting Dog Control Bill, proposed by Liberal Democrat peer Lord Redesdale which focuses on prevention rather than cure.

 

The legislation would no longer be breed specific, ensuring that aggressive dogs of any breed and their owners are brought to account.

 

The current law, banning certain types of dogs – the American Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, Dogo Argentino and Fila Brasileiro – has done nothing but make these banned breeds and their lookalikes status symbols and penalised responsible owners of these types and the dogs themselves.

 

In the last three years, the Metropolitan Police has spent £10 million implementing this law through seizure, kennelling and euthanasia of banned breeds.

 

All dogs have the potential to be dangerous or wonderful, well-behaved pets and it is people, not the dogs themselves, that make dogs dangerous. Research supports the principle of deed not breed and proves that genetics play only a part in the temperament of a dog with environment and training having a much greater effect.

 

The Bill would better protect the public by making the owners accountable for their dog’s actions, regardless of breed. 

 

Authorised officers would have the powers to place Dog Control Notices on irresponsible owners at the first signs of aggression. Attacks on private property would also become a criminal offence.

http://www.bluecross.org.uk/web/site/News/...ontrol_bill.asp

 

If you go to that site there is a link at the bottom of the post to sign a petition to repeal and replace the DDA. I would encourage everyone to sign it because while British laws might now affect us directly they can set a precedence of how things should/shouldn't be done. The repeal of the DDA there would be a huge shot in the arm for those of us trying to defeat BSL here.

 

*gets off of soap box*

Edited by Sir Barton

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I was wondering if you had a specific lineage name. like [name] of STOP BSL or something along those lines...

 

Also I would like to join.

 

I have an electric female.. and i just caught a Grey egg and I'm hoping it will be male. (and they will like each other. Dx ) both are CB

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How the Lineage Works:

 

We will work in a way that anyone can be a breeder and pick up a few cave born dragons and start their breeding project on their scroll. You can give your eggs to other people as well if they wish. The naming scheme will have the breed of a BSL breed and BSL in the name as well. Example: BSL Pit Bulls Naomi or BSL Dobby McDob

 

This is the naming scheme, Anannsul. :3

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This is the naming scheme, Anannsul. :3

xd.png thanks.. i guess I skipped that when reading what this was about. xd.png thanks. happy.gif

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Hi!

So since my magi was actually a male I named him after a son of my aunt's dog. He was, once again an extremely sweet Pit bull terrier, who was killed, because the neighbors of the owner didn't like him

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I have a CB fog for the lineage.

 

And did I hear someone say that great danes are on the list? My friend has a great dane, and she's the sweetest dog I've ever met. She only barks when she sees us jumping on the trampoline and is afraid of everything. I don't know how she could be considered dangerous. I signed the petition Sir Barton put a link to.

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I would like to suggest reds be included in the project since in their description it says that they aren't evil creatures as depicted in myths. Seems to be a misunderstood dragon just like the dogs are misunderstood.

 

Thanks, Taliax. smile.gif

Edited by Sir Barton

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I absolutely HATE BSL. It's PEOPLE to blame, not the dogs!

 

Funny, I recently made a facebook status update saying that I hate people who give pit bulls a bad name!!

 

DOWN WITH BSL!

 

Count me in!! I have a CB of each and will be breeding as soon as I unlock!

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i'll have to get a dragon of cb heritage first but since i like doing linage stuff

 

and the italy one...good some countries in europe now realised it dont work and is going back on the bsl laws, which is good, though the issue with dangerous dogs steam from the deed and it steems from too little knowledge which is why frankly while it shouldnt be needed, i am for making dog lisences like some countries in europe has gone on line to do

 

may be the only way to properly regulate things, knowledgeless owners are dangerous owners, and with knowledge i mean enough knowledge to control your dog because it can be done, so it dont bite and so it dont breed out of terms and so on and forth

 

what is with the english law it havent actually per say as much banned breeds, as it has banned any dog that look a certain way to prevent figthing dogs, and this means it doesnt matter if a mix contain a certain breed, its illigal to make dogs that look a certain way, hence which breeds are involved in making it doesnt matter

 

i presume the lawmakers behind it was thinking about airthigthing it so you couldnt breed to make a dog similar too the unwanted breeds on purpose and have a legal dog which would have the same qualities

 

a proper pittbull versus a pittbull type dog which is what the law in england say (they made a category labeled pittbull type dogs which means a lab x something x something may fall in under it without having a pittbull breed dog in it which is something else is illigal) is nothing else but an amstaff, its the same as the (american) cocker spaniel vs (english) cocker spaniel, different place different name on what is in essence one breed (and not geneticaly seperable)

 

and this is a family dog breed if you look at old pics from usa, you will see it commonly displayed as the american familydog along with kids in pictures

 

throughout time so many different breeds been labeled dangerous which then later shed the name and become accepted, the reason being its not the breed, but the treatment of the breed and usage of it that created the name, if it become accepted that the best training and keep method of a dog breed for a certain use is to have them in the dogyard all day, on a leash and not have them play with the kids because it will wreck them or they are dangerous...then the dog dont become socialised and due to this become dangerous

 

it would take a lot of strong selective breeding over many years to make an agressive dogbreed, and more over what most confuse for agressive doglines are generally just more dominant dog lines which means they crave the corect sozialisation and training, but if given this is the safest and most stabile dogs (if not in lack of a hirarchy and training they will try to take on the rolle which they do not have the ability to cary with people who will not act like dogs and will try to correct what it see as flawed behavior, and normaly not having learned corect behavior of corection will end up biting)

 

Ie it is the deed not the breed, because the minority of behavior comes from genes, the majority comes from enviromental influence, something like a split of 20-30% vs 70-80% or some such, so there is little scientific backup of the claims of it beeing the breed not the deed

 

but the people shouting highest get heard and its dangerous too all because they have no clue what they are speaking about

 

oh and back too the project, i sugest adding guardians and that summon type breed, since throughout time and surely in the future any breed which have protection/guard dog or some similar in their breed description often at one time or another suffered a bad name for being dangerous

Edited by Tanitsja

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BSL is one of the most ignorant laws in a long line of well-meaning but misguided animal laws. Calling all dogs of a specific breed dangerous is the same as saying all Latinos are lazy, or all African-Americans are drug-dealers. mad.gif

 

I'd love to join this lineage to help bring attention to BSL. I don't have any un-named CBs of the right breeds but I will start looking now.

 

These laws affect me in a very personal way. I train dogs professionally, and compete my own German Shepherds in Schutzhund - which is also what police and military dogs are trained in. It includes the bite-work that people associate with attack dogs, but it is NOT about attacking people. The dogs are trained to restrain a person by biting and holding an arm, never to savage or kill them.

 

In the county I used to live in, my German Shepherds were covered under a BSL and were automatically considered "dangerous" even though they are specifically bred and trained to be people and dog friendly. I had to carry a huge liability insurance policy and couldn't breed them or buy new ones (my dogs were "grandfathered" in since I had them before the law was passed). As soon as I could, I moved out to a county that doesn't have any BSL.

 

Ironically, none of the dogs I have worked with whose owners need help with aggression have been the so-called "dangerous" breeds.... pits, rotties, dobies, GSDs, etc. The most common biters I work with have been terrier breeds or other small dogs. In fact, I have never in 20+ years of dog training been bitten by a client's "dangerous" breed. I have been bitten by little lap-type dogs, mutts and terriers, dogs the average person considers harmless. The breed that has bitten me the most? Chihuahuas.

 

As many trainers before me have said - there are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

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Ironically, none of the dogs I have worked with whose owners need help with aggression have been the so-called "dangerous" breeds.... pits, rotties, dobies, GSDs, etc. The most common biters I work with have been terrier breeds or other small dogs. In fact, I have never in 20+ years of dog training been bitten by a client's "dangerous" breed. I have been bitten by little lap-type dogs, mutts and terriers, dogs the average person considers harmless. The breed that has bitten me the most? Chihuahuas.

 

As many trainers before me have said - there are no bad dogs, only bad owners.

My experiance has been the same. I too am a professional trainer and working on my PhD in Canine Behavior. The number one reported bite incidence in the US is a chihuahua. Yorkies, Schnauzers, and Dachshunds are also in the top 10. If I recall correctly, none of the top ten biting breeds are large dogs. The national media is no help at all, since they pick up EVERY SINGLE incidence of an attack by a "bully breed" dog and report it nationally. Hense, your average American thinks these dogs attack people all the time, when in reality you're seven times more likely to be bitten by a Lab than a "Pit-bull" (in quotes because it's a category rather than a breed- AmStaffs, English Staffs, AmBulls, Bull Terriers, even Bull Mastiffs, and any mix of any of those dogs are called "Pits"). Your average American also thinks Labs are the best family dogs. Education is desperately needed and I do my best to make a dent in the collective ignorance of the American people. /rant.

 

I'd love to join this effort. Thanks.

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the bite statistics are in my experience as worthless as the bsl bans most of the time, because most people dont have the knowledge needed to read and understand them corectly

 

often you will find dogs like labs and goldens on them, the reason though is because there are so many more of these then many other breeds, and quite a large population of them in kids families as they are considered family dogs...this means they are more likely to run into kids who are not trained to behave with dogs, who will behave badly too them too the point the dog feels preasured to defend itself

 

so if you got a statistic that say that lab is the most biting dog of 100 incidents a week, and komondor is at 1 bite per week, this may not mean that you are 100 times more likely to be bitten by a lab, it may just mean that there are 10000 labs out there for every 100 komondor, or that the labs live in totaly different homes and enviroments then komondors where they are more likely to end up in preasured situations

 

but the statistics generaly dont acount for these things most of the time, or if they do it do not come forward plainly that the data is not really comparable because it havent been conducted in an equal enviroment that is scientifically proofed for enviromental influence flaws and so on and forth.

 

the fact is that most trends and statistics that the media writes about is partly or fully malrepresented, and in most any cases you should take what they say with a pinch of salt because the reporters have no clue about animals most likely and do not have the background knowledge needed to analyze or write about what they are making cases on

Edited by Tanitsja

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I have to join this. I love dogs. My sister has a lab-mix puppy (Buddy) and I absolutely love him. He's practically my dog too. (His name links to a photo of him).

 

 

It's just wrong to say that a breed is violent or dangerous. I've known a lot of dogs who are a breed on that list and they were absolutely some of the sweetest ones I've met.

 

 

I think I have some CBs who I can use for this. They've all been named of course, but the children can be appropriately named. That or I can try to get some new CBs, but I've been doing a lot of breeding lately so space on my scroll is currently limited.

Edited by beachbeagle

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This is terrible! I didn't even know there were laws like this sad.gif

 

What they're saying about these breeds in general is completely not true. When I was 4 my babysitter stopped by the pound because she saw a sign that there were free puppies, who would need to be put down if they weren't adopted. She ran inside and came out a moment later with a tiny rottweiler puppy. He fit in my two little hands and I held him on the way to her house. I got to help feed him from a little bottle and he grew into a sweet, loving dog!

My cousin came to live with us when I was 7 and brought her golden retriever. I have never met a sweeter dog. He loved people, he loved kids, he loved going for walks, he loved playing fetch, he even loved getting a bath! When we adopted my 2 year old sister, he stood there placidly and let us hold her up on his back because she wanted to know what it was like (we didn't put her full weight on him). He didn't even bark that much. His worst offense was having a tail at the same height as the coffee table and knocking things off when he was excited.

That golden's son came to live with us for a while. He also was incredibly friendly but turned out to be too energetic for our yard, considering he was born on a 40 acre ranch.

 

No dog should have to be punished because he looks like a dog who did something bad. Isn't that our policy with people? And unlike people, dogs have no capacity for evil. I support this, I signed the petition and I'll be picking up some new dragons soon.

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