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I couldn't find much reliable info on it. When my Japanese is a little better I'm going to remember this and dive into Japanese sources.

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Going to step in on the whole don't eat meat with added hormones and antibiotics thing, I actually won't eat meat that isn't treated with antibiotics (organic meat) unless I know where the meat comes from.

 

Back when I was in 4H I raised chickens (duel purpose, so eventually they might have been eaten) as organically as possible. I gave them wormer to prevent worms but they did not get antibiotic feed or daily antibiotics in their water.

 

However, due to the breeder not innoculating the chickens like she said she had, my birds were infected with a disease called Mareks which weakens the immunsystem, can cause paralisys of one leg, paralisys of one side of the bird, cancer, and death. Birds who are harvested for meat (the quickly growing meat birds) would be killed before most of the symptoms arouse but they could have tumors in the meat.

 

Considering that the FDA here in America does not require organic farmers to innoculate to be considered organic and many farmers not paying for innoculations because they believe it will save them money or cause their meat to not be organic, makes eating the meat a scary thought.

 

So unless I know the farm I won't eat meat that is considered organic because of the risks. I do look for hormone free milk when I can find it and for eggs layed by free range chickens or free range chickens grown for meat, but my stance remains that until organic lablers are required to innoculate their animals I will only buy if I talk to a representative who can gaurentee the animal was innoculated as it was supposed to be.

 

Edit: Small update on the home front my sister is taking chickens again (her third year) and we bought from a big hatchery to insure they were vaccinated. This will hurt her chance of winning with the birds since they weren't bred for show they were bred to be good for people who wanted home flocks, but we're planning on giving them our veggie scraps and crushed egg shells as well as let them run around in the coop so they are healthy and have a good breast by fair time. This being said I wouldn't mind eating some of the birds if I had to, but homes at small egg farms have already been found.

Edited by brairtrainer

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My opinion on this is a definite no. I do not eat meat because millions of animals are killed because of the meat industry. No, i do not support the egg and milk practices either, but i have yet to become vegan(only get free range eggs though). In my opinion, eating meat is definitely not okay because, does anyone know what the animals go through? Take broiler farms(chickens) for example. The chickens are fattened three times faster than what is natural and many break limbs because their frames are not designed to hold that much weight. So chickens end up stuck in their own faeces (that'll put you off!) and get many diseases due to this. Not to mention the sickness spreads quickly because the birds are housed in crowded sheds. I still think even free range meat is not okay, because the cows/chickens/pigs are just minding their own business and then some people come and kill them. Free range meat is still an improvement, but just barely. And has anyone mentioned fish in this entire thing? The fish are abused too. They are kept in nets so small that the fish end up with broken fins. Plus there is the small matter of meat housing bacteria. Just look up 'food poisoning'. Youll notice its usually caused by meat. All that, and people dont even need to eat meat. I have never eaten meat and i am fine.

 

Just to clear up, i am mad at canivore animals, but not as mad, because they have no choice. Its either hunt or die. But we do have a choice, and we choose the dark way(most of the time).

 

So heres my opinion. Long, i know. But its still an opinion, and opinions matter. Even the animals' opinions. Too bad they cant talk.

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I see nothing wrong with eating meat. It's natural; we're omnivores; creatures eat each other. I chose to stop eating meat a long time ago, but that's a lifestyle that works for me personally. People are totally free to do what works for them and I don't care if someone noms a burger in front of me.

 

The animal treatment part in factory farming is unfortunate, yes, but realistically I think it'd be too difficult to raise and slaughter as many animals as are needed for the human population without some negative effects. I don't like it, but it seems unavoidable to me. There's bad elements to even the growing of plants for food so it's not like everything can be perfect.

 

On a lighter note, barbecue sauce was the best thing about meat for me back when I still ate it. I love that stuff: luckily I can have portobello mushrooms with BBQ sauce and get my fix. happy.gif

 

@Starscream: I like your first post on this page. I really like and respect that way of looking at things.

Edited by Dimar

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My opinion on this is a definite no. I do not eat meat because millions of animals are killed because of the meat industry. No, i do not support the egg and milk practices either, but i have yet to become vegan(only get free range eggs though). In my opinion, eating meat is definitely not okay because, does anyone know what the animals go through? Take broiler farms(chickens) for example. The chickens are fattened three times faster than what is natural and many break limbs because their frames are not designed to hold that much weight. So chickens end up stuck in their own faeces (that'll put you off!) and get many diseases due to this. Not to mention the sickness spreads quickly because the birds are housed in crowded sheds. I still think even free range meat is not okay, because the cows/chickens/pigs are just minding their own business and then some people come and kill them. Free range meat is still an improvement, but just barely. And has anyone mentioned fish in this entire thing? The fish are abused too. They are kept in nets so small that the fish end up with broken fins. Plus there is the small matter of meat housing bacteria. Just look up 'food poisoning'. Youll notice its usually caused by meat. All that, and people dont even need to eat meat. I have never eaten meat and i am fine.

 

Just to clear up, i am mad at canivore animals, but not as mad, because they have no choice. Its either hunt or die. But we do have a choice, and we choose the dark way(most of the time).

 

So heres my opinion. Long, i know. But its still an opinion, and opinions matter. Even the animals' opinions. Too bad they cant talk.

Plants cause sicknesses too, that isn't a valid reason to not eat meat. I'll give you the other reasons on a morality basis.

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Growing plants in mass kills - both directly and indirectly - about as many animals as actual animal farming. (And, may I add - often not in particularly quick and humane way.)

 

Besides, plants are capable of registering pain, too. Plants are alive, too.

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Also, consider how many animal products go into fertilizing plants. Bone meal, fish emulsion, manure(yes, this ought to count to vegans, if not vegetarians, considering it ought to be classified as much exploitation as something like eggs and honey are). And most of these are the fertilizers of choice for organic gardeners.

Edited by Nectaris

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You guys, I want sushi so much right now but the affordable sushi place I like is too far away :<

 

Arguing against all people eating meat is generally not something I can agree with, though I would rather my food has a good life before I eat it and is killed humanely.

Edited by TheCompleteAnimorph

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I chose to be vegetarian because I don't like the thought of eating animals. The rest of my family though not vegetarians only eat free-range products. Meat can be eaten as long as it has had a happy life before hand or had a degree of freedom. I don't mind if people eat meat, humans are omnivores so are supposed to dine on both plants and meats. I live in the countryside where I am surrounded by cattle and sheep, many of these are bred to be eaten. If the whole world became vegetarians most of these breeds would die out due to having no purpose. If less animals are farmed then more of the countryside will be built over with housing estates and cities. People should be able to choose whether they want to eat meat or not. Lions and wolves eat meat and certainly none of them are vegetarians. I don't support farming of lamb or veal. They should at least have a life before people kill them.

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I don't support farming of lamb or veal. They should at least have a life before people kill them.

But they're tastier and more vulnerable when they're young, and if we're killing it anyways and it still has quality of life for the time it has why does it matter?

 

(I can't stand beef and it makes me a little sick to eat, but veal is good.)

Edited by TheCompleteAnimorph

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But they're tastier and more vulnerable when they're young, and if we're killing it anyways and it still has quality of life for the time it has why does it matter?

 

That is true, but I still hold to my beliefs. Plus the state of veal farming is terrible. Calves are kept in tiny pens and are defiantly not free-range.

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I agree with that- meat farming practices in general are pretty terrible. I'd love to just hunt/raise all my own meat if I could. Unfortunately I'm a student and don't have the room or resources.

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Growing plants in mass kills - both directly and indirectly - about as many animals as actual animal farming. (And, may I add - often not in particularly quick and humane way.)

 

Besides, plants are capable of registering pain, too. Plants are alive, too.

Growing plants grows infinitely more animals than the actual meat industry does.

 

Plants aren't capable of pain though, as it would be a complex system that would be completely useless.

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I don't support farming of lamb or veal. They should at least have a life before people kill them.

A note about lamb, lamb simply means any sheep below the age of one year. (Learned that from a sheep farmer.) Lambs can be given a good life before slaughter and they are typically raised in a several month period and are typically kept in larger pens to ensure their health.

 

Also more quotes and thoughts:

 

Also, consider how many animal products go into fertilizing plants. Bone meal, fish emulsion, manure(yes, this ought to count to vegans, if not vegetarians, considering it ought to be classified as much exploitation as something like eggs and honey are). And most of these are the fertilizers of choice for organic gardeners.

 

On fertilizer being exploitation I could see that, however most vegetarians and vegans I have met have kept animals for themselves and know how hard it is to get rid of waste for one animal, and one who I know keeps her own chickens goes out to help her dad clean out the shavings which they use to fertilize their lawn (which gets mowed for hay by a neighbor.) So some might just see it as a management technicque that helps out the animals, the sellers, and the users of the manure.

 

However, others can see it the exact opposite. Manure can cause problems in streams if it gets into them and cause algae blooms. Never put manure on your garden right before its supposed to rain, because the nutrients will be washed away. Bad practices may make manure seem worse than it really is.

 

My opinion on this is a definite no. I do not eat meat because millions of animals are killed because of the meat industry. No, i do not support the egg and milk practices either, but i have yet to become vegan(only get free range eggs though). In my opinion, eating meat is definitely not okay because, does anyone know what the animals go through? Take broiler farms(chickens) for example. The chickens are fattened three times faster than what is natural and many break limbs because their frames are not designed to hold that much weight. So chickens end up stuck in their own faeces (that'll put you off!) and get many diseases due to this. Not to mention the sickness spreads quickly because the birds are housed in crowded sheds. I still think even free range meat is not okay, because the cows/chickens/pigs are just minding their own business and then some people come and kill them. Free range meat is still an improvement, but just barely. And has anyone mentioned fish in this entire thing? The fish are abused too. They are kept in nets so small that the fish end up with broken fins. Plus there is the small matter of meat housing bacteria. Just look up 'food poisoning'. Youll notice its usually caused by meat. All that, and people dont even need to eat meat. I have never eaten meat and i am fine.

 

Just to clear up, i am mad at canivore animals, but not as mad, because they have no choice. Its either hunt or die. But we do have a choice, and we choose the dark way(most of the time).

 

So heres my opinion. Long, i know. But its still an opinion, and opinions matter. Even the animals' opinions. Too bad they cant talk.

 

The latest food posioning cases I've seen have been caused by contaminated food in the fields, so perhaps it is more management practices than the consumption of meat. (Though cows wading in streams do not help typically.)

 

As for the meat chickens, they are freaks of nature. Even if they were not fed aggressivly they grow far to quickly, and will never see breeding age or if they do will not be able to produce viable offspring. Meat chickens were the result of crossing Cornish Rocks (a meat bird) with another breed of bird (the name escapes me at the moment) in an attempt to make a bird with a heavier breast. The crossing caused the birds to lose pigmentation in their feathers and grow extremely quickly. Yes we humans continue to breed these birds in the name of cheap meat, but them not moving has to do with a mutation humans are exploiting, just like we've done with dogs, cats, horses, cows, and even pigs.

 

And being mad at a carnivore animal makes no sense, they evolved eating meat because that niche was availble and those individules who did were better off. If all fauna focused on eating plants everything would have died out a long time ago.

Edited by brairtrainer

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Funfact: Everyone here eats animals. Hundreds and thousands of them. There isn't really such a thing as a person who doesnt eat animals.

Mostly because just about every food you eat has invertebrates in it. You guys should read the allowances of how much of certain things is allowed in food, its really interesting and eye opening.

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I have also heard that the Kobe cattle are given alcohol as well. Is that true?

that, I have no idea about. Maybe they are given stuff like spent grain (the grain left over from breweries - a chef gives this to his horses as a treat) but I could not answer that.

 

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Just to clear up, i am mad at canivore animals, but not as mad, because they have no choice. Its either hunt or die. But we do have a choice, and we choose the dark way(most of the time).

Why are you mad an carnivores? If we had none, there would be crazy levels of overpopulation of species. Sure, there are always omnivores, but having specifically limited diets (meat-only) means the carnivores will ONLY prey on other animals, rather than also eating the vegetation. There are already herbivores for that! The carnivores keep them in check and omnivores are there to fill in gaps. Then there are things like insects, fungi, and scavenging animals (vultures, etc) to clean up dead animal carcasses and other wastes.

 

If you get rid of carnivores, the environment falls apart. This has been shown when we tried to exterminate wolves and coyotes from certain areas.

 

As for humans, we could be all vegan, but we're OMNIVORES. We're built to be able to eat and digest meat. Meat is the easiest way to get things like protein, as well as fat for energy when hunting. Do keep in mind that if we didn't have such a crazy civilization and ways to get foodstuff from one country to another, that we'd be limited on "alternatives" for meat. We'd eat only what was around us at the time, which would include animals as well as plants.

Edited by edwardelricfreak

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Why are you mad an carnivores? If we had none, there would be crazy levels of overpopulation of species. Sure, there are always omnivores, but having specifically limited diets (meat-only) means the carnivores will ONLY prey on other animals, rather than also eating the vegetation. There are already herbivores for that! The carnivores keep them in check and omnivores are there to fill in gaps. Then there are things like insects, fungi, and scavenging animals (vultures, etc) to clean up dead animal carcasses and other wastes.

 

If you get rid of carnivores, the environment falls apart. This has been shown when we tried to exterminate wolves and coyotes from certain areas.

 

As for humans, we could be all vegan, but we're OMNIVORES. We're built to be able to eat and digest meat. Meat is the easiest way to get things like protein, as well as fat for energy when hunting. Do keep in mind that if we didn't have such a crazy civilization and ways to get foodstuff from one country to another, that we'd be limited on "alternatives" for meat. We'd eat only what was around us at the time, which would include animals as well as plants.

All very excellent points. The thing with an animal Carnivore... they do what they must to survive and , honestly, their bodies are geared to utilize meat. This is what bothers me about people that try to put their pet cat, for example, on a vegetarian diet. It just doesn't work and it is... sort of unfair to the animal.

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All very excellent points. The thing with an animal Carnivore... they do what they must to survive and , honestly, their bodies are geared to utilize meat. This is what bothers me about people that try to put their pet cat, for example, on a vegetarian diet. It just doesn't work and it is... sort of unfair to the animal.

Its more than unfair, several of the ingredients used can actually hurt the carnivores that eat it. Cats can die from being on a vegitarian only diet due to malnutrition.

 

Dogs can't digest corn very well (a common filler in kibble and in some types of wet food.) We've had our dogs on a lamb and rice mix because our sharpei is allergic and she wouldn't be able to survive on a vegetarian diet.

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On fertilizer being exploitation I could see that, however most vegetarians and vegans I have met have kept animals for themselves and know how hard it is to get rid of waste for one animal, and one who I know keeps her own chickens goes out to help her dad clean out the shavings which they use to fertilize their lawn (which gets mowed for hay by a neighbor.) So some might just see it as a management technicque that helps out the animals, the sellers, and the users of the manure.

 

However, others can see it the exact opposite. Manure can cause problems in streams if it gets into them and cause algae blooms. Never put manure on your garden right before its supposed to rain, because the nutrients will be washed away. Bad practices may make manure seem worse than it really is.

 

My issue with it is it ought to be considered the same as eggs. If you raise chickens, eggs are inevitable, yet if you are vegan, you won't eat them, despite the fact that they do no harm to the animal. I understand many are protesting the awful conditions in factory farmed eggs, but that doesn't affect the home-raised eggs in front of you. If you did eat those eggs however, could you call yourself a vegan? And this is besides the fact that many of the commercially available manure fertilizer likely comes from animals that are destined for slaughter(I definitely remember seeing turkey manure available, that is not likely to be from turkeys raised for fun). Not every person is going to have access to locally obtained manure.

 

And that doesn't cover things like bonemeal and fish emulsion, both of which are considered organic(so that label doesn't protect them). How many vegans or vegetarians actually go around and check which vegetables are fertilized with that stuff?

Edited by Nectaris

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My issue with it is it ought to be considered the same as eggs. If you raise chickens, eggs are inevitable, yet if you are vegan, you won't eat them, despite the fact that they do no harm to the animal. I understand many are protesting the awful conditions in factory farmed eggs, but that doesn't affect the home-raised eggs in front of you. If you did eat those eggs however, could you call yourself a vegan?

 

And that doesn't cover things like bonemeal and fish emulsion, both of which are considered organic(so that label doesn't protect them). How many vegans or vegetarians actually go around and check which vegetables are fertilized with that stuff?

I'm not sure, which is why I'm a big subscriber to know where your food comes from. Yes I know big farms aren't nessicarily the best but I'm fully willing to avoid places that perscribe to practices I hate (I went two years not eating at Mcdonalds in the state I live in because they were purchasing eggs from a place that had several violations as well as cutting the beaks off birds so they would't peck each other to death blink.gif. this practice isn't used in free range flocks because its not needed, hence the free range or people I know eggs only.)

 

Really if you want that lifestyle and its for moral reasons (not health reasons, I knew a girl who was vegan for health reasons (lactose intolerent and had trouble digesting eggs who then chose to be a vegetarian on top of that)) should examine where they get their produce from. Even non-organic vegetables could be fertalized by ammonia made for fertilizer which is made from manure as well as being in a lab.

 

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I sometimes want to stop eating meat for health benefits, but I know I never could actually pull it off. I've had some preeetty good meat, man cool.gif

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I agree with that- meat farming practices in general are pretty terrible. I'd love to just hunt/raise all my own meat if I could. Unfortunately I'm a student and don't have the room or resources.

That is the trouble a lot of people would have with raising their own meat, I think; to say nothing of the fact that there are, I am sure, plenty of people who wouldn't have any idea how to begin.

 

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a wonderful thing; but it is a lot more difficult in practice.

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I actually got this great book called 4 hour chef, shows the process of cleaning a deer. There are interesting articles in this book about hunting, and eating odd things an a lot of respect to the animals. I myself have no problem with cleaning, gutting or skinning an animal and I may possibly be able to get over my general dislike for taking a life if I understand that it was done respectfully. The author of the book said he has no intention of romanticising hunting. He did say a level of instinct kicked in while the animal was being cleaned. The purple tabbed section is the bit about hunting and wild food.

 

edit: on the vegetable side of things, we just got a notice that there are community garden plots available - I like in a high rise and like trying to grow my own meat, I cannot grow my own vegetables... I have applied. As a chef, I love fresh food. <3

Edited by Starscream

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Yes, why shouldn't it be eaten? Humans are omnivores; we eat meat and plants. Wolves eat meat. Cats eat meat. Lots of other animals eat meat; why shouldn't humans?

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