Meat

[Obscure_Trash]

I learned this argument type today:

 

Tigers eat meat. Tigers are animals. Humans also are animals. So humans can eat meat.

This argument seems kind of like circular logic. Reminds me of the:

 

Cats have four legs.

Dogs have four legs.

Cats are dogs.

 

type arguments. |D

[hunters225]

The way I think of it, these cows/chickens/flamingos(lolwut?)/whatevers where bred and raised to be eaten. It's not like we just walked in on a random family of cows and said "I eat ur kiddiez nao lolz" and we are omnivorous for a reason...

[7Deadly$ins]

You all know the Neglected dragon saying in some signatures? "We do what we must because we can". As a vegetarian, I don't eat meat for moral reasons. I'm an animal lover, and decided it was really hypocritical of me to claim something like that and be eating KFC. And so, "I quit meat because I can".

 

I won't stress my views on others, though. As has been pointed out, we are equiped to be omnivores by evolution. I would like to point out this: Do you love bacon? Pork? Other pig products? Guess what - we taste like bacon. Food for thought (pun intended). Does this also mean we're evolutionarily inclined to eat each other? Our ancestors were cannibals as far as I know, so it's actually funny how human meat is so taboo now - yet the taste for our own remains.

 

...Actually, that's another huge reason I went veggie. Once I was old enough to really know and comprehend it. Meat is flesh. Flesh is from living things. I'm a living thing. From there, it was "What if I was on the plate?" and "My God what have I done?!". I quit cold turkey. And all the other meats (sorry, that was too easy, I had to). Never regretted it.

 

To all that I just gave nightmares to: I apologize.

I also apologize if this is repeated info. I didn't go through all the pages to check.

 

EDIT: Ooh, right! Another fun fact! For those who don't know, the liver is the organ that filters your bodily waste! *brick'd* Now do the brain and tongue sound a bit yummier in comparison? *brick'd and shot*

I really should shut up now.

Which "ancestors" are you referring to that practiced cannibalism?

 

Also, animals in the dairy industry are treated just as poorly as those in the meat industry. I understand vegan-for-moral-reasons but not vegetarian-for-moral-reasons.

[Renorei]

The way I think of it, these cows/chickens/flamingos(lolwut?)/whatevers where bred and raised to be eaten. It's not like we just walked in on a random family of cows and said "I eat ur kiddiez nao lolz"

I'm not sure I agree with this argument. For the record, I think it's perfectly okay to eat any animal you please (well, maybe not ANY animal--certainly not your neighbor's pet or an endangered species--but if it's an animal that is a wild non-endangered animal or if it's an animal you own or if it's a part of an animal that you purchased fair and square from a store, I think it's fine).

 

But I don't think that there's anything worse about killing wild animals than there is about killing food animals. To me, killing and eating a wild animal almost seems more fair, because the animal had a sporting chance. The deer might smell your scent on the wind and flee before you shoot it. The turkey might see your gun poking up and fly away before you can make the kill. You might shoot at a running rabbit, but you might miss because the rabbit's too fast. A fish in a river might see your bait dangling in the water but opt for a worm on the riverbed. So on and so forth...

 

But with animals that were raised specifically to be food animals, they pretty much never had a chance to evade death. If I felt that killing and eating animals was wrong, I would feel that killing and eating domestic livestock was actually more wrong, because those animals were born into human subservience and died for human benefit, without ever really getting to live life for their own sake. At least with a wild animal, it probably lived a few years of life doing whatever it wanted to do and going wherever it wanted to go without having to answer to anybody.

 

If I had a bunch of land at my disposal and some guns and a big freezer, I'd love it if the entire meat portion of my diet could come from wild animals.

[TikindiDragon]

...Actually, that's another huge reason I went veggie. Once I was old enough to really know and comprehend it. Meat is flesh. Flesh is from living things. I'm a living thing. From there, it was "What if I was on the plate?" and "My God what have I done?!". I quit cold turkey. And all the other meats (sorry, that was too easy, I had to). Never regretted it.

Now, see, vegetarians like this I have *no* problem with. If you have moral objections to killing and/or the eating of flesh than I applaud you for standing up with the courage of your convictions. The only type of vegetarian I have a problem with are the ones that go around saying that no one should eat meat because the way farm animals are kept is cruel.

[grimace]

I learned this argument type today:

 

Tigers eat meat. Tigers are animals. Humans also are animals. So humans can eat meat.

 

Meat has protein. And it has a good taste. So I eat it very happy.

 

 

And no, I do not think about the animal that was killed, mainly because they were bound to.

Meat is awesome but that logic is terrible.

 

Humans eat meat. Meat is eaten by tigers. Humans are obviously tigers.

[requiesticat]

I'm not sure I agree with this argument. For the record, I think it's perfectly okay to eat any animal you please (well, maybe not ANY animal--certainly not your neighbor's pet or an endangered species--but if it's an animal that is a wild non-endangered animal or if it's an animal you own or if it's a part of an animal that you purchased fair and square from a store, I think it's fine).

 

But I don't think that there's anything worse about killing wild animals than there is about killing food animals. To me, killing and eating a wild animal almost seems more fair, because the animal had a sporting chance. The deer might smell your scent on the wind and flee before you shoot it. The turkey might see your gun poking up and fly away before you can make the kill. You might shoot at a running rabbit, but you might miss because the rabbit's too fast. A fish in a river might see your bait dangling in the water but opt for a worm on the riverbed. So on and so forth...

 

But with animals that were raised specifically to be food animals, they pretty much never had a chance to evade death. If I felt that killing and eating animals was wrong, I would feel that killing and eating domestic livestock was actually more wrong, because those animals were born into human subservience and died for human benefit, without ever really getting to live life for their own sake. At least with a wild animal, it probably lived a few years of life doing whatever it wanted to do and going wherever it wanted to go without having to answer to anybody.

 

If I had a bunch of land at my disposal and some guns and a big freezer, I'd love it if the entire meat portion of my diet could come from wild animals.

Good answer, but...

animals do get to live lives before they're killed (well, some, anyway.) Just so you know.

Even farm animals. They had a life, no matter how long or short.

 

What about that rabbit, deer, and fish you were talking about? They did live lives in the forest, too. And it still makes it beneficial for you and not the animal if you try shooting at it. Unless it gets away.

 

But yeah, like I said, I liked your argument.

 

 

 

 

Humans are omnivores, tigers are carnivores, and we're one big happy family.

 

That is, until Mr. Tyrannosaurus comes along and tries to eat us all. O^O

 

[Kai]

...Actually, that's another huge reason I went veggie. Once I was old enough to really know and comprehend it. Meat is flesh. Flesh is from living things. I'm a living thing. From there, it was "What if I was on the plate?" and "My God what have I done?!". I quit cold turkey. And all the other meats (sorry, that was too easy, I had to). Never regretted it.

You do realise plants are living too.

 

It's just easier to make excuses to your imagination with vegetables.

[Renorei]

I've never really bought the argument that plants are just as alive as animals...yes, plants are living matter, but there's some key differences between animals and plants. Plants are not sentient--animals are. Plants lack the mental capacity to suffer. Animals have that capacity. Plants lack a central nervous system. Yes, they are living matter, but they cannot think or suffer or die an agonizing death. Also, in most cases you don't need to kill the plant to eat it. I can pluck an apple off a tree without hurting the tree. I can trim lettuce leaves off of a lettuce plant and the plant will just grow more lettuce. With plants, you are eating living matter but you haven't necessarily ended a life. You can't hack a steak out of a cow and expect the cow to go on its merry way. The cow might survive the ordeal but it would be really painful, and the wound might get infected or the cow might bleed to death. Plus if that muscle was an important muscle there may be damage to the cow's mobility. If it survives having a steak cut out of it, it won't really be the same. Whatever you removed isn't going to grow back the way an apple would grow back. There will be scar tissue instead of the original flesh. The animal equivalent of eating a piece of fruit would be eating an egg or drinking some milk because you can do that without harming the animal.

 

If I were a vegetarian or vegan, I would laugh anytime someone points out that, "Plants are living too."

[RheaZen]

But they are. They also scream when injured.

[Soliae]

I don't really think that lab-grown meat will become more popular. GMOs, perhaps.

Didn't say lab created meat would be popular because it was PREFERABLE or tastes better.

 

What I meant is that it's going to become more popular out of necessity and cost effectiveness. Even genetically modified animals take up space and require more food resources put into them than is obtained from their carcass.

 

People continue to live longer lives and overpopulate. At the point where space for animals becomes less profitable than space for people, it's pretty clear which will win (See: city zoning ordinances).

 

Keep in mind, this isn't something that will happen tomorrow. Perhaps in the next century. We're talking about a steady incline in the price of meat due to feed and space requirements (already happening) until it reaches the breaking point where even the middle class family cannot afford it. As it nears this point, more money will be funneled into resources to figure out how to more efficiently produce meat (already happening - with hormones, steroids, and GM animals). One of the ways that is efficient in both time and space is lab-created meat products. At this time, it's not COST effective, but that can change with enhanced research and technology. Whereas the availability of space and feed products for animals only shrinks.

 

I don't like this idea. However, it seems like a likely situation. Perhaps more likely is the fact that we return to a diet in which meat is rare. The current situation combined with the current population increases and food issues is not sustainable.

 

All this said, I like meat. I'm not a vegetarian. I'm part of the problem. As I said before, however, I try to eat clean meat that we raise and kill ourselves.

 

 

[RheaZen]

Still don't really see lab-grown meat being more cost-effective than normal meat from animals, but whatev.

 

I would think that we'd end up turning to alternative sources of protein. Say, bugs.

[Renorei]

The amount of resources needed to produce a pound of caterpillars is way smaller than the amount of resources needed to produce a pound of beef. And apparently bugs are pretty good for you.

 

I don't have a problem with the idea of eating bugs--what bothers me is how people would treat me if I did. If other people started eating bugs I'd eat them too.

[AngelKitty]

Yes, they are living matter, but they cannot think or suffer or die an agonizing death.

Actually plants can sense when you've injured it by cutting leaves off of it or removing an apple that's not ready to fall yet. Plants aren't inert things that sit there and do nothing; they have a rather complex network of communication that tells it when something is nibbling on it, when something is infecting a wound, when it's too hot, when it's too cold, and even what direction light if coming from.

 

It's not pain in the sense we think of it, and pulling off some leaves is hardly agonizing, but they can sense when they're injured.

 

Something interesting on the subject.

 

But even if plants could experience agonizing pain, most of the animals we eat are herbivores which must eat plants anyway. Either way, you're hurting the plants.

Edited November 5, 2010 by AngelKitty

[AlicornsPrayer]

The amount of resources needed to produce a pound of caterpillars is way smaller than the amount of resources needed to produce a pound of beef. And apparently bugs are pretty good for you.

 

I don't have a problem with the idea of eating bugs--what bothers me is how people would treat me if I did. If other people started eating bugs I'd eat them too.

Honestly? Why would you not eat something you want to eat, simply based on how others would react? Just cause it's taboo to them, you shouldn't let their taboos influence your own. Just as you shouldn't let your food taboos influence them in what they wish to eat.

 

I personally love veal, lamb, and soft-shell crabs. For many people, these are food taboos based off of the age/vunerability of said food item and preceived husbandry care. I get to hear about how the animals are treated, how unfair it is to the critter, how my eating such foods is encouraging the continued 'abuse'...They'd do their best to use their food taboo to influence my diet and food preferences.

 

BUT it's MY food preferences, and I'm not using my preferences to make them eat the same things I like. I respect their not wanting such food sources and wouldn't cook it for them...But I will cook it for myself and my family and enjoy eat bite guilt free, cause it's MY food choices, not theirs.

 

If bugs are what you want to eat, don't let other's 'ick factor' stop you. In fact, in many countries, it's not a taboo...Not to mention wilderness survivalists actually teach you to find protein sources when no wildlife is available yet insects are always in great supply.

[Eillenore]

My sister claims I'm half-vegitarian, I don't do it purposly, but I just don't like the tastes of red meat. My sister says half-vegitarians only eat white or only red meat. I'll probably like it one day, though, Since tastebuds change.

Although I eat animals, I don't like the thought of them being killed. I know it's natural for things to die and I know it's natural for humans to eat meat, but I don't like the thought of suffering.

 

I do eat white meat, though. That I'll eat.

I'm rather picky.

[RheaZen]

Haha, I would eat bugs just to freak people out. /weird

 

I really want to try some grubs. I've heard they're nutty.

 

... well, I have tried them, and they did taste nutty, but it wasn't a pleasant experience. I ate them on accident.

[caramba2654]

Meat is awesome but that logic is terrible.

 

Humans eat meat. Meat is eaten by tigers. Humans are obviously tigers.

No. Your sentence gives the idea humans are cannibalists.

 

A correct one would be:

 

Humans eat meat. Tigers eat meat. So tigers and humans are carnivorous.

 

Or:

 

Humans are meat. Tigers eat meat. So tigers eat humans.

 

And so forth...

 

By the way, I once drank an ant... Accidentally.

Edited November 5, 2010 by caramba2654

[cocofurme]

i dont like meat but i still eat it so yea i think its fine

[RheaZen]

Humans eat meat. Tigers eat meat. So tigers and humans are carnivorous.

"Humans eat meat. Tigers eat meat. So humans are tigers."

[requiesticat]

I've never really bought the argument that plants are just as alive as animals...yes, plants are living matter, but there's some key differences between animals and plants.  Plants are not sentient--animals are.  Plants lack the mental capacity to suffer.  Animals have that capacity.  Plants lack a central nervous system.  Yes, they are living matter, but they cannot think or suffer or die an agonizing death.  Also, in most cases you don't need to kill the plant to eat it.  I can pluck an apple off a tree without hurting the tree.  I can trim lettuce leaves off of a lettuce plant and the plant will just grow more lettuce.  With plants, you are eating living matter but you haven't necessarily ended a life.  You can't hack a steak out of a cow and expect the cow to go on its merry way.  The cow might survive the ordeal but it would be really painful, and the wound might get infected or the cow might bleed to death.  Plus if that muscle was an important muscle there may be damage to the cow's mobility.  If it survives having a steak cut out of it, it won't really be the same.  Whatever you removed isn't going to grow back the way an apple would grow back.  There will be scar tissue instead of the original flesh.  The animal equivalent of eating a piece of fruit would be eating an egg or drinking some milk because you can do that without harming the animal. 

 

If I were a vegetarian or vegan, I would laugh anytime someone points out that, "Plants are living too."

Sorry that this isn't about meat, but...

 

 

I agree. Plants "live" in a way -being said they give off oxygen and glucose once eaten and go through photosynthesis- but other then that, they can't feel, are eaten and regenerate, and they die.

 

If a plant could feel, though, I wonder what it would feel like if someone picked it?

Or pulled it out of the ground...

I watched on mythbusters about this plant test to see if plants could feel pain to some degree with a polygraph. At once, it actually freakin' worked and it seemed like that plants could feel... but it didn't work afterward.

 

Lol can't you guys take a joke? That was about the terrible logic of one person who started the thing about tigers and humans.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Kandycat

[RheaZen]

They only regenerate if they've been damaged at a certain point. Wonder why grass keeps growing back? They grow from the bottom up. Some plants don't.

 

So, if you don't do it right, they don't grow back :| YOU JUST AMPUTATED IT.

[caramba2654]

"Humans eat meat. Tigers eat meat. So humans are tigers."

Lol.

 

Then, in basic facts, the last argument is false. So, even if they both eat meat, they won't be the same thing... There's a way to proof that, but this is getting off topic. Shall we create another topic for this? D

 

BTW, I eat meat, but I don't eat flesh, even so they both are meat.

 

 

 

[grimace]

You are now aware the process of growing vegetables kills MORE animals than the meat industry.

Just sayin.

[RheaZen]

You are now aware the process of growing vegetables kills MORE animals than the meat industry.

Just sayin.

Caution, swearing.