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I've tried soy meat once and while it did taste like meat, the texture couldn't fool me. :|

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As for the big question - should it be eaten? I think yes, for some people, since people don't like change. However, I think the livestock industry should change it's ethics and instead of cutting the throats of cows, use gas instead or another way. The amount of land these places take up, and the amount of methane byproduct is mind boggling

I agree that the livestock industry should change, and there are some that are already doing so, and strive to bring the rest of the industry with them. There are several places who turn cow manure into electricity (like this place and this article about it ) which reduces the green house gas imprint a lot.

 

As for the way that cows are put down, as far as I know (and I may be wrong) only kosher slaughter houses use a neck cut to kill the cow. All the places I know of either use a ball-bearing air-gun to instant off the cow (either to dislocate the spine and sever the spinal cord or to crush the skull onto the hind-brain, both of which are quick relatively painless deaths) or a real firearm to do the same thing.

 

Gassing a cow for food makes me shudder because the stuff in the gas will go into the meat and cause goodness knows what problems to the people who eat it. Also the price for killing the animal would skyrocket, taking the price of meat with it.

 

An finally, just my opinion, if I were to put myself in the hooves of a cow, I'd rather a quick death by instant off, or a (not quite as quick but still relatively painless) death by throat cut than to be gassed. Though that may just be my paranoia about gas and deadly vapors talking.

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i love animals.

 

so i don't eat meat.

or fish.

 

unlike every other animal in existence, we have a choice when it comes to eating meat- we don't depend on it , although the economy does. i don't think that many people know how much pain the animals go through before they end up in your hamburger, and coupled with the fact that cows beat cars when it comes to global warming, or the fact that every portion of beef you eat COULD HAVE FED 12 PEOPLE with the amount of food it ate in its short and painful life.

 

so i don't mind it when people say they like animals but eat meat. but get into the real world people

the meat industry will stay the same as long as there is someone to pay for it. and there is always that someone, somewhere. and sometimes they don't have a choice.

Edited by connatay

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i love animals.

 

so i don't eat meat.

or fish.

And what about regular dairy products and eggs?

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I eat meat mainly cause I really love it.

 

If I had the resolve, I'd stop eating it (and stop eating eggs and dairy). Not cause I think killing animals for our food is wrong, I think that's part of nature and life. And, death eventually happens no matter what and at least the animal is giving its life up to further some other life. I love animals, but I really do not see anything wrong with killing an animal for food (and for leather as I feel all parts of the animal that can should be used if you are going to take its life).

 

But, I do think how those animals I am eating end up being raised and killed is a problem. Most food animals are treated very badly, given very small space, and not even given much of a humane death. I'd not eat meat (or if I had the money eat only meat that is humanely raised) mostly to boycott how chickens and cows are raised for mass consumption.

 

To me quality of life of an animal is a helluva lot more important than its death to be a food animal for me (shoot one could argue if we didn't eat meat a lot of those animals wouldn't even have a chance to ever have a life in the first place cause we wouldn't be breeding them to eat).

 

The best I've done so far is pony up the money to buy eggs from certified humanely treated chickens (and hope the certification is pretty good)l.

Edited by tigress666

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I love animals and hate thinking about what they have to go through in order for us to eat meat. >< I do eat meat, but I try not to eat it too often… which is somewhat difficult since my boyfriend's parents invite us over for dinner almost every night, and there is meat in almost every meal. But when I make stuff here, we've come to like the vegetarian "meat" options that you can get from the store. I'll make this good lasagna and use the meatless ground beef instead of the regular meat, and it's still really good. ^^

As for dairy products, we use Silk soy milk but we both love things like cheese and yogurt and whatnot, so we still eat those quite often. I've never liked eggs though, so I don't eat them.

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It also may have been mentioned before, but I'll just say it. What do you think of the meat consumed in other countries? Whale and dolphin meat? Dog meat? How has culture ingrained in us that it's okay to eat this, but not okay to eat that? In the case of some countries, there really isn't an alternative with their way of living. But what about the countries that have the option for alternatives?

I think it's very hypocritical to say people shouldn't eat dog/cat whatever (just please don't tell me about it cause even though I agree that if one eats one type of animal you can't really condemn eating another just cause it's that type doesn't mean I want to hear about you eating an animal I tend to like more and see more as a pet. Just as I'd be polite and try not to mention eating an animal some one else liked/found sacred to them).

 

Whale, on the other hand, I am against mainly cause most whales are endangered (now if they are going for non endangered whales and doing it in a way to conserve the species, I'd have no problem).

 

I do think no one should be eating flesh of animals that are endangered period (I think that should be illegal as it is for most endangered animals. Sea life unfortunately doesn't seem to get as good protections. I know swordfish and some types of sharks really should stop being fished). Mainly cause their populations can't handle being hunted at the moment (and I'll be somewhat positive and say maybe some day they can recover enough to be hunted).

Edited by tigress666

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Personally, I love eating meat, and while ethically I'd love to eat only organically/free range produced meat/eggs/milk etc, unfortunately I don't have the cash flow to do so as it all costs so much more than the mass produced stuff. Also, since it's being produced, if people didn't eat it, it would go to waste and therefore mean the the animals died and (possibly) suffered for no reason.

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And what about regular dairy products and eggs?

 

yes- i only eat free range/organic, and even then, it's minimal ^ ^

cheese? not really

milk? only free range and not if i can help it.

 

cutting down on dairy was a lot harder for me- i'm going to become vegan as soon as i can help it wink.gif

 

edit: it is hypocritical for people to eat other meats and hate others for eating cat and dog- but there is no such thing as a free range dog steak, and the animals are usually treated much worse.

in korea, for example,in some cases they keep a dog in a tiny cage its whole life- and then repetedly electricute it with small bolts of electricity until it dies of exhaustion.

there is also a back market belief in some parts of the world that beating an dog (or any other animal) to death makes the meat reder and tastier- (and also and easy way to kill the animal involved?) ---> i found a vid on it --->

Edited by connatay

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As for the way that cows are put down, as far as I know (and I may be wrong) only kosher slaughter houses use a neck cut to kill the cow.  All the places I know of either use a ball-bearing air-gun to instant off the cow (either to dislocate the spine and sever the spinal cord or to crush the skull onto the hind-brain, both of which are quick relatively painless deaths) or a real firearm to do the same thing.

 

Gassing a cow for food makes me shudder because the stuff in the gas will go into the meat and cause goodness knows what problems to the people who eat it.  Also the price for killing the animal would skyrocket, taking the price of meat with it. 

The probem is it's still happening, and it's not always clean and quick. Workers get sloppy or simply don't follow standards. Electrocuton is also used. I could look up videos, but I'd rather not. (Just google 'slaughterhouse conditions') You bring up a good point about the gas, didn't think about that, but not all gas is dangerous to you or resides inside the animal that long. There are already gases built up in bovines. Granted, I'd rather be less slaughterhouses than there are, but prices would go up, people would complain... and they'd have no choice but to eat things other than meat. Less constipation, heh.

Prions are another reason meat makes me wary. It's unlikely you'd get an infected cow in the US, though.

 

tigress666:

I think it's very hypocritical to say people shouldn't eat dog/cat whatever

 

Whale, on the other hand, I am against mainly cause most whales are endangered (now if they are going for non endangered whales and doing it in a way to conserve the species, I'd have no problem).

 

I do think no one should be eating flesh of animals that are endangered period (I think that should be illegal as it is for most endangered animals. Sea life unfortunately doesn't seem to get as good protections.

 

Agreed. Unfortunetely, people still say it. People are raised differently around the world to see such and such as normal, when for us it is not. :[

As for oceans; agreex9495857! Especially sea mammals, which cannot just be bred until their number are stable.

What's worse is some of the fisherie's catch is actually used as livestock feed!

Read here.

 

As for people crying about how people are against meat but eat milk and eggs:

There's a reason why it's vegetarian and vegan. You can't expect everyone to just go 'cold turkey' so to speak. I still have yet to embrace veggies, among other alternative for protein, calcium, etc. Instead of calling them hypocrites, applaud them for attempting to change their ways.

In fact, some veg*ns live with people who eat meat, eggs, etc. It's an adjustment, lemme tell you.

 

 

lightbird:

I've tried soy meat once and while it did taste like meat, the texture couldn't fool me. :|

Yea, soy based meat products, I can't stomach those yet. If your ever in Whole Foods or a health food store, look out for Quorn or Morningstar products. Other brands just don't cut it with the texture thing.

 

Aughh, my debating skills are a little rusty. Tried to keep the essay thing to a minimum.

Edited by toxicneon

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I have no problem with people eating cat, dog, rat, horse... whatever. As long as the meat isn't from an endangered animal, and has been raised and treated well, then there's no problem with it in my mind. I'm not one of those people that sufferes from "I won't eat it because it's cute!" syndrome. I happily tuck into rabbit, which is a nice, lean, free range meat, on a relatively regular basis.

 

Connatay - do beware of tarring every single meat producer in existence with the antics of a very few. The videos you'll find on youtube and the pro-vegan websites show only the worst of the worst. There are plenty of well run farms and slaughter houses out there where the animals are well cared for during their lives, and die with a minimum of pain. The EU has strict legal criteria on the welfare of farm animals, and battery cages will have been phased out in Europe by the end of next year.

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I dont have a problem with consuming it.

If god gave us meat chewing teeth then obviously he wants us to eat it.

Its the food chain & humans are at the top of it, therefore we have every right to eat lower lifeforms including meat.

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yes- i only eat free range/organic, and even then, it's minimal ^ ^

cheese? not really

milk? only free range and not if i can help it.

Sure, it's more of a test question for me, because I know IRL plently of people who with shining eyes proclaim that they don't eat meat for the love of animals but still consume regular supermarket milk/eggs. Talk about ignorance wink.gif

 

I've probably never mentioned this here but if I could afford it, I'd readily buy free-range/organic animal products as well.

Edited by lightbird

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I'm not one of those people that sufferes from "I won't eat it because it's cute!" syndrome. I happily tuck into rabbit, which is a nice, lean, free range meat, on a relatively regular basis.

 

Connatay - do beware of tarring every single meat producer in existence with the antics of a very few. The videos you'll find on youtube and the pro-vegan websites show only the worst of the worst. There are plenty of well run farms and slaughter houses out there where the animals are well cared for during their lives, and die with a minimum of pain. The EU has strict legal criteria on the welfare of farm animals, and battery cages will have been phased out in Europe by the end of next year.

I'll fully admit I have the won't eat it cause it's cute syndrome. Sorry, could not get myself to eat a cat or dog (could eat a rabbit though if htey didn't taste so nasty. Tried it once.... blech).

 

But, I don't think it's my place as some one who eats meat to tell some one else they shouldn't eat cat or dog (long as it is not some one's pet). I just hope they don't tell me all about it cause I don't want to think about it.

 

The one justification I can think of for making pet animals illegal to eat is something that has popped up in at least one country that allows people to eat htose animals. People stealing people's pets for food (oh, I thought it was a stray *innocent look*).

 

And that's nice to hear about Europe but I wonder how well animals are treated in the US. We have standards here too but I know that places find ways around those (Check out puppy mills that have FDA approval).

 

And yeah, I'd totally insist on all free-range/certified humane raised animals if I could afford it sad.gif. But, because I love meat so much, don't have a good resolve to go vegetarian, and am poor, I buy the other stuff sad.gif.

Edited by tigress666

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Connatay - do beware of tarring every single meat producer in existence with the antics of a very few. The videos you'll find on youtube and the pro-vegan websites show only the worst of the worst. There are plenty of well run farms and slaughter houses out there where the animals are well cared for during their lives, and die with a minimum of pain.

 

i know. but i've been there and done that, and the bad side of it is more common that you think. but yes, i know some people do treat their animals nicely before killing them. i have friends who breed sheep in their large field- and when they're 6 or so months they send them off to the slaughter house and they come back frozen in boxes. but that doesn't excuse the people that do do the wrong thing- although in my opinion what the farm does is kinda wrong sad.gif

 

*yawn* i'm tired of arguing about something that people aren't going change their minds about- and everyone seems to agree on the eating whale/endangered spiecies subject- i'm going to leave this discussion, but i'll be keeping an eye on it wink.gif

 

 

 

 

 

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i know. but i've been there and done that, and the bad side of it is more common that you think. but yes, i know some people do treat their animals nicely before killing them. i have friends who breed sheep in their large field- and when they're 6 or so months they send them off to the slaughter house and they come back frozen in boxes. but that doesn't excuse the people that do do the wrong thing- although in my opinion what the farm does is kinda wrong sad.gif

Perhaps - but I can also tell you it's far, far less common than you seem to be implying. Certainly I know it is in the UK. I've grown up in a rural, farming community here. I go into farms almost every day in the course of my work. If it was as common as you seem to be implying don't you think that in all that time, and on all those farms, I should have seen with my own eyes some of the cruelty you are talking about? I'm not denying that it does exist, but I do think it needs to be made clear that the majority of meat is NOT cruelly produced. It's perfectly possible, if you are careful about what you buy, and where you buy it from, to be able to eat meat and also to have a clear conscience that the animals did not suffer in their lives.

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I went to a picket line protest at my local supermarket once, it had recently been outed that this place got a lot of it's meat from a semi-local farm/slaughter house. The slaughter house and farm both used inhumane ways to keep and kill their animals, and how they remained open I don't really know.

 

I like to eat meat. I love steak and chicken, I can tolerate certain types of fish and shellfish. But I do have a problem knowing that the delicious steak I just grilled was tortured first, so I went.

 

I went cause I thought it was going to be a protest of the markets buying from that particular slaughter house, but it was a bunch of vegetarians and vegans protesting the eating of meat. I'm not saying all(or even most) vegetarians are extreme, but lets just say these guys came from all over the state(I don't know how they even knew, this was a very local thing) and I was scared to admit I ate meat. I didn't stay very long.

 

I organized a boycott of the store with other locals instead. They stopped ordering from that place eventually, and the price of meat about doubled but I didn't care.

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I like meat. Meat is good. I don't suffer at all from the "but it's CUTE!" syndrome; I'm willing to try just about any kind of meat.

 

But. I don't want to eat meat that was in pain when it died. And I want to eat meat that was well-treated and had a healthy diet. (Grass-fed beef has more nutrients and I'm convinced it tastes better. Ditto for "happy chickens".)

 

Humans evolved to be omnivores. We're designed to eat meat and vegetables. So animals eat animals, humans are animals, there's no real problem with it.

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Humans evolved to be omnivores. We're designed to eat meat and vegetables. So animals eat animals, humans are animals, there's no real problem with it.

 

yes, that quite true. but humans have come far beyond the point of eating a small amount of meat once a week from ethical and sustainable sources.

now humans eat way too much meat than is good for them, and as we evolve our teeth get smaller because we do not need them so much, + the point that the big industry animals get geneticly modified and are stuffed with hormones.

its a bit late to relate to relate to how we evolved millions of years ago when the meat we ate then is almost completely different to the meat we eat now.

 

right, that is definetley going to be my last post for a while wink.gif

 

 

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As said before, we're animals who are meant to eat other animals.

 

If we're omnivores, then why defy nature?

Eat meat! tongue.gif

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Well I will eat all meats that come my way. Including veal and lamb and rabbit and duck and venison and all the other cute animals. I don't care much what animal its from, only the conditions. I won't not eat meat from bad conditions if none of that type is avalable from better conditions. I will generaly choose the one from better living though if i can. Also, if you dont like BBQ sauce you can just do a rub. thats what I use.

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There's actually some rather annoying wild pigeons that live on top of our roof here. It's making me rather curious as to how squab (pigeon meat) tastes.

 

Anything to stop the scraping and tapping and cooing all day and night right over my bed.

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I'm curious if all those saying "yes" would eat human if offered or required for the situation. It's meat, too =)

 

Oh, and I think I might given the desperate circumstances. You know, Donner Party circumstances, not Dahmer.

Edited by Nine

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