Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[HeatherMarie]

And of course some random straight, white sportscaster threw a fit on twitter because people have been calling Jason a hero and "you can't just abuse the dictionary like that".

.... That's the funniest thing I've heard in like forever. Did this sportscaster actually expect to be taken seriously with a comment like that??

 

[Obscure_Trash]

.... That's the funniest thing I've heard in like forever. Did this sportscaster actually expect to be taken seriously with a comment like that??

Warning for language in the link: Yep, which just makes it all the more funny.

[Riverwillows]

Why did it have to be important that the sportscaster was white?? Straight, yeah, that's funny. But what does white have to do with it?

 

Tired of all the reverse bigotry. Whites as stupid, and typical for being numbnuts when it comes to important human rights.

 

Leave race out of it, ok? Just say....stupid straight sportscaster....etc etc.

 

Sorry, just wondered why it had to be said he was white. I've heard plenty of horse doo doo from non-white homophobes.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Riverwillows

[Obscure_Trash]

Because QPOC have even less privilege than GSM white folk and we tend to erase the struggles of QPOC. We mostly show off the nice, family-picturesque white gay or lesbians in order to 'appeal to the man' - to make queerness something normal and acceptable in order to pass laws and gain rights. But in doing this, we stomp all over QPOC. We ignore their struggles, we ignore that they neither have straight privilege or white privilege, and we silence their voices.

 

Yeah, I think it's really important that a straight, white male completely missed the point of what it took for this gay, black male to come out. I pointed out his whiteness because we all too often erase intersectionality as it is, which just isn't okay.

 

Yeah, racism still exists today. Not only do we not like to admit this, we also like to shy away from the fact that being both GSM and not white puts people at even greater risk for abuse, homelessness, discrimination, etc. than if you are a white GSM.

[Fuzzbucket]

Because QPOC have even less privilege than GSM white folk and we tend to erase the struggles of QPOC. We mostly show off the nice, family-picturesque white gay or lesbians in order to 'appeal to the man' - to make queerness something normal and acceptable in order to pass laws and gain rights. But in doing this, we stomp all over QPOC. We ignore their struggles, we ignore that they neither have straight privilege or white privilege, and we silence their voices.

 

Yeah, I think it's really important that a straight, white male completely missed the point of what it took for this gay, black male to come out. I pointed out his whiteness because we all too often erase intersectionality as it is, which just isn't okay.

 

Yeah, racism still exists today. Not only do we not like to admit this, we also like to shy away from the fact that being both GSM and not white puts people at even greater risk for abuse, homelessness, discrimination, etc. than if you are a white GSM.

Right on socky.

 

ALSO - sad and deplorable though it is - some white homophobes do actually believe that coloured gays are even worse than white ones...

[Riverwillows]

I still think it's unnecessary. Really upsets me, actually.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Sock, you are ignoring your pm's again, sweetie.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Riverwillows

[Fuzzbucket]

I still think it's unnecessary. Really upsets me, actually.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And Sock, you are ignoring your pm's again, sweetie.

Sorry - but if you read Jason's whole thing - well, it was important as a part of it that he's black, and if you also read that sportscaster's twitter rubbish - yes, I think it needs to be said that he's white. I am REALLY sorry you are upset; you will know this. But still.... White guys dissing coloured ones - I have NO DOUBT AT ALL that part of his "distaste" was down to Jason's race. I know less than nothing about US sport - are ANY of the people he has been shown to have named as heroes - (after he said that heroes are firefighters not sportspeople) coloured ?

[Riverwillows]

To one extent, I do agree...I don't consider sports people "heros". A hero is someone who does good in the world at risk of his own life, and does it anyway. A hero is a soldier, a firefighter, a policeman, a regular joe who runs into a burning building to save someone, etc.

 

Sports people win competitions with skill and practice, yes, but they are not 'heros'. Yes, he came out as gay, that is to be commended, and he is someone to look up to, yes.

 

But he didn't do anything at risk of his own life, to benefit others, he is rich, and can afford to hide behind bodyguards, etc.

 

No, he is not a hero. He is again, to be admired, and rooted for. That's all. And it doesn't matter what color he is either.

 

I just get tired of the whole race issue. African Americans tend to be the most racist group out there. And before you flame me, I am half Black, my mother was black. And a bit of a scholar when it comes to racial issues. As someone who straddles the color fence, I can see both sides, with eyes wide open.

 

Anyway, its off topic and I shall not mention it again. (crawls back to corner, still upset. )

Edited April 30, 2013 by Riverwillows

[Fuzzbucket]

 

I just get tired of the whole race issue. African Americans tend to be the most racist group out there. And before you flame me, I am half Black, my mother was black. And a bit of a scholar when it comes to racial issues. As someone who straddles the color fence, I can see both sides, with eyes wide open.

 

Anyway, its off topic and I shall not mention it again. (crawls back to corner, still upset. )

I would never flame you (well, OK I did by accident once, but I did say sorry ! ) and I was aware you were part black. But that sportscaster is a homophobe and also racist - and deserves to be called out on BOTH counts, is all.

 

I will also call out black people who diss whites just for their colour, believe me. I have even had a HUGE row with a First Nation person who hates all palefaces... (HER word, not mine...)

 

As for the hero thing - I don't have issues with a wide use of the word; I cam see both sides - but he just said only fire-fighters etc should qualify - and he has named rock stars and sportsmen as heroes on his own twitterfeed, so.... And that is part of where I think his racism is showing. I bet if it had been a white player who had come out, he would have said rather less....

[NobleOwl]

To me, as a person of color who had no one to look up to when attempting to come out as a minority, I think he is a hero. It's hard to be the first in a field to admit that you're different.

[hazeh]

I think the term hero doesn't have a real solid definition. I think it changes from person to person. A hero to one person could be someone that did something courageous in the face of danger or hurt, which, to a lot of people, is very heroic. It doesn't really matter if it is a physical challenge or mental or social. When you really admire someone for accomplishing something you strive for, or for accomplishing an awe-inspiring feat, they become a hero to you.

[Alpha1]

Meaning what?

 

I am recognised as a Jew under all branches of Judaism, thank you.

 

My marriage is recognised under Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist, Renewal, and Conservadox. Considering the ketubah was written up by two Orthodox rabbis, it is a valid legal document in Israel.

 

What are you?

[Spelunker]

Meaning what branch of Judaism, I suppose.

[demonicvampiregirl]

Look at what i just read today: http://inspiredcreativity.deviantart.com/a...ality-155041403

 

I just found out that the ancient, original, and true bible supported same-sex relationships while the modern and constantly-changed book of lies opposed it. It's a very long read, but if anyone's interested in getting some real education, please read it.

 

To all those who said that God is against homosexuality, you obviously didn't do your historical research before judging other people.

Exactly. Religion now is becoming more and more warped and twisted from it's original meaning that people are becoming almost brainwashed (can't think of another word) with it.

 

It's 2013 people time to get with it and just let them marry already. This is getting old and repetitive. '

[NobleOwl]

What are you?

 

I'm Jewish.

 

I attend both Conservadox and Orthodox synagogues. I've taken classes at Modern Orthodox chavurahs and one at a Hasidic yeshiva. I've taught Hebrew at a Reform shul.

[Alpha1]

I'm Jewish.

I attend both Conservadox and Orthodox synagogues. I've taken classes at Modern Orthodox chavurahs and one at a Hasidic yeshiva. I've taught Hebrew at a Reform shul.

 

You’ve said this before: “You'd have to ask someone who is a Conservative or Masorti Jew, Alpha.” I understand if you don’t identify with one or the other. There’s a lot of overlap. Different shades.

 

[NobleOwl]

You’ve said this before: “You'd have to ask someone who is a Conservative or Masorti Jew, Alpha.” I understand if you don’t identify with one or the other. There’s a lot of overlap. Different shades.

And yet you keep asking for what reason. I define myself as Jewish. That's it.

[Alpha1]

And yet you keep asking for what reason. I define myself as Jewish. That's it.

 

I thought you said you were a Conservative Jew before. That’s all. I inquired about it before, but you went away and didn’t reply back. I don’t know why you think I “keep asking”. Your first response was a misunderstanding, and I accept your response that you define yourself as Jewish.

 

[Obscure_Trash]

To one extent, I do agree...I don't consider sports people "heros". A hero is someone who does good in the world at risk of his own life, and does it anyway. A hero is a soldier, a firefighter, a policeman, a regular joe who runs into a burning building to save someone, etc.

 

Sports people win competitions with skill and practice, yes, but they are not 'heros'. Yes, he came out as gay, that is to be commended, and he is someone to look up to, yes.

 

But he didn't do anything at risk of his own life, to benefit others, he is rich, and can afford to hide behind bodyguards, etc.

 

No, he is not a hero. He is again, to be admired, and rooted for. That's all. And it doesn't matter what color he is either.

 

I just get tired of the whole race issue. African Americans tend to be the most racist group out there. And before you flame me, I am half Black, my mother was black. And a bit of a scholar when it comes to racial issues. As someone who straddles the color fence, I can see both sides, with eyes wide open.

 

Anyway, its off topic and I shall not mention it again. (crawls back to corner, still upset. )

From dictionary.com:

Hero

noun

 

1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.

 

I don't care if others don't think Jason Collins is a hero. I do care when they feel so strongly about it that they demand that a gay, black man not be considered a hero.

 

I believe what you are talking about is probably more colorism than racism, as yes, there is a lot of problems between POC and mixed POC (which I'm guessing is a result of living in a world where they are actively oppressed by whites and where people receive better treatment, even as POC, if they are lighter skinned). And yeah, there are lots of problems with POC on POC racism (I know communities such as the Chinese tend to be actively racist against blacks, for example). Is this right? Of course not. But I think it's very different when we're talking about racism against all POCs and racism by POC towards other POC and I don't think we can quantify a group as "most racist". I do know that whites like myself do have a history of oppressing POC. We have privilege. We have an institution of power backing us up. So POC prejudice against whites can never really be comparable to the everyday oppression by whites (who all participate in that oppression - not because they are specifically being actively racist but because there is an institution of power that gives them privilege over other races) towards POC. But yeah, we're getting off topic. x3 Either I can move this bit of my post over to the racism thread or you can reply there (or we can just drop it if that's what's wanted). :3

 

I know less than nothing about US sport - are ANY of the people he has been shown to have named as heroes - (after he said that heroes are firefighters not sportspeople) coloured ?

 

People of color, fuzzy dear, not 'colored'. As the quote I saw the other day put it, they are 'people first, not simply a color'. :3

Darius Rucker is black and the others are all white AFAIK.

 

~

 

I thought this was a really neat piece. Nine GSM of color who paved the way for Jason Collins: http://colorlines.com/archives/2013/04/9_l...on_collins.html

Respect.

[Riverwillows]

Oh, Sock, my dear, please don't get me wrong.

 

I just think it's asking a bit much, when a person, regardless of race, is considered a hero, simply because he came out of the closet. Brave, yes, admirable, definitely. Hero, no.

 

It's just that the word "hero" is bandied about so much, I think the true meaning of it is lost now. It's been diminished, and used for just about everything nowadays, which to my mind, is almost an insult to those for whom truly deserve it.

 

That's all.

[NobleOwl]

Oh, Sock, my dear, please don't get me wrong.

 

I just think it's asking a bit much, when a person, regardless of race, is considered a hero, simply because he came out of the closet. Brave, yes, admirable, definitely. Hero, no.

 

It's just that the word "hero" is bandied about so much, I think the true meaning of it is lost now. It's been diminished, and used for just about everything nowadays, which to my mind, is almost an insult to those for whom truly deserve it.

 

That's all.

My point, however, is that he may well have saved lives by coming out. Before I came out, I honestly had no examples before me. I was terrified, and there were times when suicide, even for an observant Jew, was easier.

 

Why?

 

Because no one had the bravery to do it yet.

 

So to me, if knowing that there's a proud gay, black man, who was not afraid of backlash, and who could still be a pro athlete saves one kid from slitting their wrists, then yes, he's a hero, to me.

 

Does that make sense?

[Alpha1]

Does that make sense?

 

I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't consider him a hero. He has enormous support. The 30 and under support for gay marriage is like 73% or so. I've been in two classes where two individuals wanted to do a presentation on it, in fact.

[NobleOwl]

I get what you're saying, but I wouldn't consider him a hero. He has enormous support. The 30 and under support for gay marriage is like 73% or so. I've been in two classes where two individuals wanted to do a presentation on it, in fact.

He has enormous support, yes, but he also has a lot of people who are very unsupportive.

 

I've in the past two days, I've heard at least six people make very homophobic comments about the whole thing, going so far as to suggest he should be "put down" and I live in one of the most liberal areas of the US.

[Fuzzbucket]

People of color, fuzzy dear, not 'colored'. As the quote I saw the other day put it, they are 'people first, not simply a color'. :3

Darius Rucker is black and the others are all white AFAIK.

 

Just in passing - I agree that one should ALWAYS refer to "a person of colour" - in fact, I prefer to refer to a person as race means less than nothing in my book - but here we need it - but I did NOT refer to a "coloured person".

I asked if someone WAS coloured. That isn't referring to a person, that is asking about a person - as in "were their eyes blue" - I know about sensitivities and all that, but does one always have to say "a person with blue eyes" or"a person with blonde hair" ? No. But they are persons too.

 

I think the sentence would have been far too convoluted it it had read as you suggest:

 

I wrote:

 

I know less than nothing about US sport - are ANY of the people he has been shown to have named as heroes - (after he said that heroes are firefighters not sportspeople) coloured ?

 

What you suggest would get us to:

I know less than nothing about US sport - are ANY of the people he has been shown to have named as heroes - (after he said that heroes are firefighters not sportspeople) persons of colour ?

 

(incidentally, see, I have ALSO been told that you should say PERSONS, not PEOPLE, as "people" GROUPS them. )

 

And as YOU said:

 

Darius Rucker is black and the others are all white AFAIK.

 

Scuse me, what's the difference ?

 

This stuff can be taken too far. I think.

 

But I KNEW he'd have picked out - um let's be careful here - persons not of colour...

 

And I agree with you about the hero thing.

Edited May 2, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[St. Jimmy]

The Rhode Island governor just signed the marraige equality bill into law!