Posted April 18, 2013 I guess... Kinda makes me sound a little selfish, thinking about it now... Share this post Link to post
Posted April 18, 2013 I guess... Kinda makes me sound a little selfish, thinking about it now... Don't be silly, you aren't selfish. The problem is people can't see that you are asexual as well as they can see people who are, say, homosexual. Asexuals have also remained hidden in comparison to the others so a lot of people don't realize that asexuality is a thing. Asexuals still have to deal with what LGBTs deal with, its just that we aren't usually as open about it in comparison to them and people don't know about Asexuals as much so there aren't as many stories about prejudice. Share this post Link to post
Posted April 18, 2013 Honestly... I think this is dangerous ground. What's it matter how oppressed an ace is? It varies from case to case. Same as a gay individual. Someone may live in a completely accepting family and work environment and encounter very little discrimination. A teen ace might get subjected to repeated medical tests and psych evaluations to find something wrong if they come out. It can and will happen on either side. We shouldn't rate ourselves on how oppressed we are. I hate when I have to sit back and see a friend say, "I had a bad day because my dog ate my homework," and then someone tries to invalidate it by saying, "Well, you should buck up because my dog ate my 200 dollar textbook. At least you won't have to pay 200 dollars to buy new homework." It shouldn't be a mentality to invalidate concerns cause someone has more. Yah, maybe something else worse did happen to someone else. That doesn't mean it's selfish to admit you're having a bad day. It doesn't invalidate the other person's emotions or make them any less justified. Life is not a game of who has the most misery. We shouldn't treat misery as a scoring system. I guess what I'm trying to say... screw it. Whether they're more discriminated against it or not, aces have as much of a place in the LGBT movement as anyone because the movement is about improving the lives of as many people as possible. Whether they are minor improvements or major, why shouldn't we try to help as many people as possible? Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 No one is gonna jump you and beat you up or try to kill you for being Asexual. Oh, okay. That makes me so relieved! Now all I have to worry about is somebody trying to "fix" me against my will with their penis! Because, yes, "corrective" rapes have been reported by members of the asexual community. Here's some other nice things we deal with: Being told that we're broken Being told that we're sick Being told that our sexuality doesn't exist Being told we're just prudes Being told "being celibate isn't a sexuality!" Relationships with sexuals are often hard because if they want sex and we don't... Well, it's not healthy for a relationship where all involved are not having their needs met Told we just haven't found the right person Pitied for not being able to "fully enjoy life" or some such crap--because apparently sex is required for a fulfilling life Dealing with a world that's hyper-focused on sex and some of us feel out of place because we'll never understand that need for sex. Being told to shut up because gays have it worse (by that logic, all gays in the US should shut up because at least it's not a crime worth of execution in the US like it is some places) Additionally, I saw an article ages ago about a sexual boy with a low sex drive having a happy relationship with an asexual girl. A lot of the commentary was things like "ultimate friendzone", "that's BS she just doesn't wanna him" and "wow i feel sorry for him" and "he should dump her prude ass!". You'be surprised by the sheer number of people who don't think we exist--a number of them in the LGBT community. I had a project once and it was on sexuality. My partner wanted to do it on the LGBT community--especially bisexuals since she was tired of the misinformation people had when it came to bisexuals as she is bisexual, and when I mentioned I'd like to include one slide out of the entire thing to mention asexuality she said something to the effect of "Well, I never heard of that. We're focusing on real things." So, yes, we may have it better on some aspects than other members of the LGBT/etc. community. But that doesn't mean our problems should just get ignored because some people have it worse. That's like telling somebody with depression they have no right to be sad because STARVING CHILDREN IN AFRICA. It should never a matter of "who is more oppressed". It should always be a matter of trying to educate people and to end all oppression. We should all work together to help end the oppression--however much or little each individual faces--for us all. We should not be having a "who suffers most" pissing contest. Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 I replied to a question that was asked openly. Like all of you, I express my opinion. I based my opinion on living with a transgenderd child, watching him grow and his pain ans suffering, and living with a gay man who used to be my husband, watching his pain and trials. I did not expect to be lynched, for that is how I see it, from these last few posts. If you read my post, you will see I sympathized with Asexuals plight, I did not say they didn't go thru their own hells, I merely expressed the opinion that it is nothing compared to what I've seen LGBT's go thru. Thank you for all your responses, that imply I am a rather unfeeling person. I shall not post in this thread again, and will think more carefully who I trade with from this point on. Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 I did not mean for my post to come off as offensive in any way. I apologize if it did and accept full responsibility. Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 I don't they're gonna read that. Or trade with any of us ever again... Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) I believe a person should be what is comfortable to them, what feels "right" to them. That said, no, I do not believe asexuals experience half the bigotry and predjudice that LGBT's experience. No one is gonna jump you and beat you up or try to kill you for being Asexual. No one is gonna fire you for being Asexual. You have the right to marry another Asexual if you wish, no one will say jack about it. No one will condemn or deny you adoption, based on your Asexuality. And so on. While I think is sad that people will come down on you for not having any interest in sex, and while I can certainly understand your frustration with ignorant and dumb-jerk people.... Still, you are not nearly as oppressed as LGBT's are. But, I do hope that you find a way to deal with your situation so that things are not an issue anymore. I really do. No one should suffer in any way for just being who they are. I keep rereading Ruins's post that this post is in response to and I just don't see anywhere in it where they claim that asexuals experience the same bigotry and prejudice that LGBT's experience, so I'm confused by your post. I thought the question was "would you count asexuals in this whole LGBT/gay rights thing?", not "do you think asexuals experience the same problems as LGBTs?". It's hard to say if asexuals could be included because there are same-sex asexual couples, so yes they would be included. Edited April 19, 2013 by Syaoransbear Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 I honestly wasn't addressing them specifically? I was speaking generally. I do think it's dangerous to limit anyone from the gay rights movement. Honestly, if anything, I'd be more aimed at the post above that. Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) Being told that we're broken Being told that we're sick Being told that our sexuality doesn't exist Being told we're just prudes Being told "being celibate isn't a sexuality!" Told we just haven't found the right person Pitied for not being able to "fully enjoy life" or some such crap--because apparently sex is required for a fulfilling life Dealing with a world that's hyper-focused on sex and some of us feel out of place because we'll never understand that need for sex. Being told to shut up because gays have it worse (by that logic, all gays in the US should shut up because at least it's not a crime worth of execution in the US like it is some places) As an asexual myself, I can relate to all of that, as pretty much all of it has happened to me at some port or another as well. I think what I got the most was, being told it doesn't exist, being told I had the wrong definitions of the word asexual, being a prude, being childish about it and that I'll grow out of it, haven't found the right person, not able to "fully enjoy life" (especially cause I don't want my -own- kids either), and even told to shut up because others have it worse. (though I've been yelled at for that about -everything-). I get the "Oh you'll grow out of it" and "Oh poor you, you'll never be able to enjoy life to the fullest." These are just super annoying to here constantly, I'm being pitied for something I don't need pity for... I'm perfectly happy the way I am. .-. It sucks dealing with a world that is so physical it can't always understand the importance of mentality in a relationship. I believe that the bond two people share is more important, which is why I'll never understand the need for "the nasty." To me, it's just for making kids, and that's it. I'll never understand the need for it either. I also agree that it shouldn't be a "who's misery is worse" contest, we all have problems and that should be respected. And for the record, I don't think your post was offensive back there at all Walker.. Edited April 19, 2013 by SandstormL Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 Not sure if it was mentioned in here or not, but Gay Marriage has been legalised in New Zealand Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) Honestly... I think this is dangerous ground. What's it matter how oppressed an ace is? It varies from case to case. Same as a gay individual. Someone may live in a completely accepting family and work environment and encounter very little discrimination. A teen ace might get subjected to repeated medical tests and psych evaluations to find something wrong if they come out. It can and will happen on either side. We shouldn't rate ourselves on how oppressed we are. I hate when I have to sit back and see a friend say, "I had a bad day because my dog ate my homework," and then someone tries to invalidate it by saying, "Well, you should buck up because my dog ate my 200 dollar textbook. At least you won't have to pay 200 dollars to buy new homework." It shouldn't be a mentality to invalidate concerns cause someone has more. Yah, maybe something else worse did happen to someone else. That doesn't mean it's selfish to admit you're having a bad day. It doesn't invalidate the other person's emotions or make them any less justified. Life is not a game of who has the most misery. We shouldn't treat misery as a scoring system. I guess what I'm trying to say... screw it. Whether they're more discriminated against it or not, aces have as much of a place in the LGBT movement as anyone because the movement is about improving the lives of as many people as possible. Whether they are minor improvements or major, why shouldn't we try to help as many people as possible? I think we need this repeated. Pain does not invalidate other pain. My arm won't hurt me less, because someone else hurt theirs more. As for the whole minority card game... Unless you* are a transgender homosexual woman of color with a mental illness and a physical handicap to go with being ousted from your religious family who abused you while you grew up poor in the ghetto, you are not going to "win" anyway. * General you everywhere. Edited April 19, 2013 by Svataben Share this post Link to post
Posted April 19, 2013 (edited) LGBT? What does that mean? It's an acronym that stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and trans*. :3 Edited April 19, 2013 by Switch Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 No one is gonna jump you and beat you up or try to kill you for being Asexual. KageSora mentioned corrective rape and I'm just going to throw date rape in here (which really coincides with corrective rape). There's a huuuuuge push against asexuals of "how do you know you won't like it if you don't try it?" and I know many asexuals who were coerced into sex by a partner who wouldn't take no for an answer. Rivers, you know I love you, so please don't take any of the posts personally. None were meant that way that I can see. Just recognize your privilege and listen to the people who don't have that same privilege when they share their experiences. Knowing people who don't have x privilege doesn't mean you can't still display it. We all have something to learn. I'm an able-bodied, thin, basically cisgendered, white person. I learn plenty every day about these discriminations from people who experience them every day. That's nothing to be ashamed of. It's just something to accept and be aware of. :3 Interesting little piece (though not much information in it): http://asexualnews.com/index.php/cake-reci...-like-it-or-not This is part of the reason I prefer the term GSM (Gender and Sexual Minority - though I wish it was orientation instead of sexual). The fact that the LGBT tag keeps expanding to accommodate the wonderful diversity of genders and orientations people are (and at one point an A was added for us...). Asexuals are an orientation minority and I thought that was the important part of the LBGT in the first place, anyway? There's already other major orientations (and genders!) not included in the simple LGBT label outright but they're still considered a part of the group. But yeah, you'll run into discrimination in the community for pointing out you're asexual. I've had quite a few arguments with other GSM folk on the basis that I didn't face enough discrimination, which I think is an awful basis for anybody promoting equality, rights, and belonging. Aces may not face "a lot" of discrimination or even the same type of discrimination, but so many people don't even know we exist. We need a voice and most of us are already fighting the fight for GSM equality and rights. So yes, I consider us as under the GSM and even LGBT umbrella. If you talk to an ace we're not going to claim that laws discriminate against us getting jobs or the like. We know that. We have our own unique set of struggles and its okay to recognize that. Any aces out there may be interested in the asexual-people-problems tumblr, which I won't link just in case since it does have sex related posts. Also, a general round of applause for Walker's post. :3 Not sure if it was mentioned in here or not, but Gay Marriage has been legalised in New Zealand Yaaaay! =D Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 I like GSM. I always thought the other sounded like a sandwich :3 In other news, "Activists cheer as Montana formally decriminalizes gay sex" Article Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 We need a voice and most of us are already fighting the fight for GSM equality and rights. This, so much. And, if it becomes a "you're not in our group because you're not treated badly enough" thing... Then WHY should I bother to spend my energy fighting for the rights of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, trans, etc. when I could instead spend my energy getting people to recognize that my sexuality exists--especially if they're going to discriminate against me? I only have so many resources, so why should I use them to help out an a group of people that reject me, causing me to be stuck between them and the other group of people who reject me? If I'm not a member of either, then I'm a member of an even smaller group that gets completely ignored in the struggle between the two larger groups. We may not face as much discrimination as other sexualities, but making us fight for a little notice between two warring giants is a pretty crappy way to treat us. I think, in a sad way, it's hilarious to see the LGBT community discriminate against asexuals when they're fighting against discrimination. We all need to work together--we need to recognize that we all suffer. We suffer differently and to different degrees, but we all still suffer. Not every kid who comes out as gay will be disowned--some of them are loved and it's like "okay, yeah, so?" because the parents don't care because it doesn't matter to them. Some gay people will never really be personally treated like crap--the biggest thing they need to worry about is the legal aspect. Others are beaten, raped, tortured, murdered simply for existing. It's a spectrum of discrimination even among individuals who are gay or lesbian or bisexual or transgender. Trans people seem to get it worse than gay people, gay PoC get it worse than gay whites, etc. So why can't we all just accept that it's also a spectrum of discrimination among different identities? Like I said before, we need to be united instead of turning it into a "who has it worse" pissing contest. Because, just sayin', but if it comes to that... Everybody in the US who's gay needs to shut up about their lack of marriage because hey--at least they don't live in a country where being gay is illegal and punishable by death! So those people have it worse and therefore win the misery competition. tl;dr: "who has it worse" is stupid, discrimination faced is a spectrum, we should all work together for the good of everybody instead of discriminating against each other. (I figure I need one of these, since I seem to be doing badly with explaining myself in general these days) Oh, quick question about gender! What do people consider transgender to mean? I've seen people who say it's an umbrella term for anybody who isn't cisgender, and others who say it's ONLY for those who are the opposite gender of their sex. Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 Oh, quick question about gender! What do people consider transgender to mean? I've seen people who say it's an umbrella term for anybody who isn't cisgender, and others who say it's ONLY for those who are the opposite gender of their sex. From my understanding trans* is for anyone who is not cisgendered (genderqueer, transgender, etc) and transgender is for those whose gender does not align with their sex. Yay New Zealand! Didn't click the Montana link but it was just decriminalized? AmI reading that right? Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Transgendered is when you are born physically one sex, but in your mind you feel like the opposite sex. My brother was born a man, but when he hit puberty, his body changed all wrong for what he felt inside was correct. He had feelings and urges that felt totally foriegn to him, Man stuff, as opposed to woman stuff. He is now going thru psychological counseling and is getting hormone shots, and is starting to grow breasts. His voice is higher. We share clothes, makeup and nail polish. He will eventually get the full operation to become a physical woman. It won't be 100% the same, but closer than it is now. Legal name and gender change will come later, soon. My brother will be my sister. And I couldn't be happier. I'm not losing anyone, cause the person behind the eyes that I love, won't be changing. Just the outside packaging...to fit the inside. That is what transgendered means. Edited April 20, 2013 by Paegin Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 From my understanding trans* is for anyone who is not cisgendered (genderqueer, transgender, etc) and transgender is for those whose gender does not align with their sex. Alright, thanks. I've just seen a lot of differing information on it. I've seen people say trans* = everybody, trans* = transgedner and transsexual (and I'm a bit confused on that, too, I've seen different explanations for that, too--can somebody clear that up for me? I've seen that transsexual = always has sexual reassignment surgery and that such isn't always the case, I've seen that transgender = feeling that their gender isn't quite right for their body and transsexual = absolutely feel it's wrong, etc.), that transsexual = gender opposite sex but transgender = umbrella term, etc... Though, with the way you worded it... Wouldn't that mean that it could be more than just male/female gender/sex issues being transgender? Because you could be agender and that's clearly not the same as your biological sex, for example. There's just a ton of incredibly conflicting information... Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) Not sure if it was mentioned in here or not, but Gay Marriage has been legalised in New Zealand Yes! Thirteenth country in the world Kishing: absolutely Edited April 20, 2013 by Dragonhide Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 (edited) I've seen people say trans* = everybody, trans* = transgedner and transsexual It depends on how individuals identify themselves, but most people I know use trans* as a blanket term for everyone who's trans-anything. Genderqueer (which usually includes agender, as you mentioned, and also androgyny, or feeling like a combo of both male and female) falls under that same umbrella academically but it seems to be splitting more into a blanket term of its own. To me trans* means anyone who's uncomfortable enough with their current physical sex to seek help for it, whether from a therapist or online or wherever. Hope that helps, sorry, it's kinda late here and I'm falling asleep! P.S. Go New Zealand! All I can think is now I could visit, and pretend to be an elf and get married at the same time. Edited April 20, 2013 by Kishing Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 To me trans* means anyone who's uncomfortable enough with their current physical sex to seek help for it, whether from a therapist or online or wherever. Hope that helps, sorry, it's kinda late here and I'm falling asleep! Then where do people who feel like their gender doesn't exactly match their sex, but don't really feel a huge desire to change their bodies/appearance or to get some kind of help fall? Gender is really freaking confusing. >_> Share this post Link to post
Posted April 20, 2013 Um....did you not read my post? It fully explains the basics of what Transgender is. Share this post Link to post
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