Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[The Evil Doer]

No, I'm a social worker with a DEGREE in developmental psychology and child development, Not a major. I have my Masters, thank you.

 

What I am saying in that over multiple studies, there has been shown no quantifiable difference in psychology of children raised by heterosexual parents versus homosexual parents, and that there was no discernable difference in the US or internationally that showed ANY influence on the child's development or identity. The only even slight difference was that the genetic children of homosexuals vs fostered or adopted children were 1% less likely to be gay than heterosexuals genetic offspring.

Forget about homosexual hetrosexual factor, as someone who has a degree in a developmental psychology, do you really objectively think that a child is not affected by the difference at all ??

From what you have learned in your degree, do you not think that children (at early age and later on) try and mimic their parents, wanting to be like them, hence wouldnt them being different (race/sexuality/whatever) have an impact on their development ?

Do you truly believe that a homosexual child who has homosexual parents wont have it easier, wont have a healthier environment ?

Do you really neglect the fact that homosexual parents being more similar understand him much better than hetrosexual parents ever could ?

Love and support is cool but do you really think that is all children need as someone who has a degree in psychology ?

[klinneah]

Ah, ok. I wasn't sure. Not sure what the muliplication symbol means.

I think the person was using it to use the same meaning as the plus sign, since it also had a bible verse at the bottom (which I didn't bother to look up but presumably referred to something like "go forth and multiply")

[Riverwillows]

I think the person was using it to use the same meaning as the plus sign, since it also had a bible verse at the bottom (which I didn't bother to look up but presumably referred to something like "go forth and multiply")

Lol...it's so silly. Just because gay marriage would be legal, doesn't mean that no one will have kids anymore. Lot's of kids who would otherwise grow up in the foster care system would probably find loving homes too.

 

Its just so silly to use religion and religious references to judge a secular institution.

[klinneah]

Lol...it's so silly. Just because gay marriage would be legal, doesn't mean that no one will have kids anymore. Lot's of kids who would otherwise grow up in the foster care system would probably find loving homes too.

 

Its just so silly to use religion and religious references to judge a secular institution.

I know! I personally am Catholic myself but I would rather see marriage be completely separated from religion altogether, so the church couldn't have her hands in it saying "but this is how we do it!" It's so silly.

 

Then again, neither do I believe the Church should be required to change her views. If you do not subscribe to my beliefs then why do they bother you!

[The Evil Doer]

Reread what you just said. You're implying that races are like completely different people, when they're not. I keep repeating it. A person is a person who is a person. The only reason people think any different is because they were raised being told that there is a difference between you and this guy because you have different skin tones, or eyes, or you lived in a different country.

 

The health of a child is dictated by the care given to them, not what their parents look like or where they come from. If the parents are able to care for and love that child, that child is in a healthy home. Gender, sex, and race should not be part of the equation of loving your child. Because, once you have them, they're your baby. Nothing should change that unless the parents themselves change it.

No, Im implying that people are different based on everything they are, race is a big part of every persons identity, you might say black white and yellow are the same but the reality of things is that you (assuming white) have no idea what it is to be black or asian (just like you have no idea whats it like to be your opposite gender) , your perception of reality is that of a white american (assuming again) and there is a huge difference between how you perceive the world and how its perceived by someone with a different skin tone or different zip code for that matter, the worse part about that sentence is that there is a big difference between how the world perceives you and those of different colors...

[sparkle10184]

No, Im implying that people are different based on everything they are, race is a big part of every persons identity, you might say black white and yellow are the same but the reality of things is that you (assuming white) have no idea what it is to be black or asian (just like you have no idea whats it like to be your opposite gender) , your perception of reality is that of a white american (assuming again) and there is a huge difference between how you perceive the world and how its perceived by someone with a different skin tone or different zip code for that matter, the worse part about that sentence is that there is a big difference between how the world perceives you and those of different colors...

Um, what does a zip code have to do with this? How people view things is not decided by their zip code...

[klinneah]

Um, what does a zip code have to do with this? How people view things is not decided by their zip code...

Lol I'm pretty sure my view of the world is roughly equal to that of someone just across the county line. But that's just me talking

[ShinyTomato]

Forget about homosexual hetrosexual factor, as someone who has a degree in a developmental psychology, do you really objectively think that a child is not affected by the difference at all ??

From what you have learned in your degree, do you not think that children (at early age and later on) try and mimic their parents, wanting to be like them, hence wouldnt them being different (race/sexuality/whatever) have an impact on their development ?

Do you truly believe that a homosexual child who has homosexual parents wont have it easier, wont have a healthier environment ?

Do you really neglect the fact that homosexual parents being more similar understand him much better than hetrosexual parents ever could ?

Love and support is cool but do you really think that is all children need as someone who has a degree in psychology ?

Yes, I honestly think it has no factor. In fact, there is a large group of child development experts currently against the US's racial based adoption laws because it has been shown that the effect of being adopted into a mixed race or different racial group has no more of an effect on identity issues than adoption by the same culture or race.

 

So yes, in my expert opinion, based on years of research and a loooooong dissertation that sighted over eighty studies, I honestly believe there is no difference, because research has shown there is no difference.

 

I think you're ignoring the psychological effect of acceptance by those different from you, which is one of the prime developmental keys children need to establish a healthy internal locus of control. With only approval from those like them, a child is often stunted and develops an external locus.

[KageSora]

*waves hands*

 

Kid of gay parents here, with a 6 year old sister and soon to be brother of 9 months

And this is why I'll happily listen to you over TED, because you've lived the situation TED can only theorize about~

 

 

Personally... I actually would kinda rather have gay parents myself. I'm pretty sure I'd be better off than I am.

 

See, I had a lot of conflict as an older teen and an adult because of the way I was raised. My parents are very religious, and not exactly fond of the idea of gay marriage (nor are they exactly fond of "choosing" to be gay, either). And... That actually caused a great deal of stress for me, since I have a very close friend who's gay. I was actually very uncomfortable with him for a while thanks to their teachings that it was a sin and he was guaranteed to go to hell.

 

But, he was the same awesome person he was before he told me after he told me, and I eventually got over it.

 

But, that's what really made me start questioning religion. And the realization that I never truly believed but only followed out of fear of divine punishment for not following... That really shattered my world for a while. Months. Hell I'm still a little uncomfortable with religious stuff because of everything, and now I'm rather uncomfortable going to my parents with problems because they bring up a god I don't believe in so often.

 

I was almost suicidal (I was passively suicidal, and was quite close to becoming actively suicidal), I was struggling not to start self-harm again, I was having panic attacks that were majorly interfering with my ability to function--driving when a panic attack hits you is not a fun experience, and was actually diagnosed with panic disorder because of everything going on.

 

I had to go back on medication--two kinds this time--and step up my therapy just to survive.

 

And all of that was triggered because my parents are rather closed-minded about homosexuality.

 

If I had had gay parents instead, there wouldn't have been that issue in the first place (well, I doubt it would have happened--I highly doubt gay parents would raise their child to think their parents were abominations that were guaranteed a one-way ticket to hell).

 

Reread what you just said. You're implying that races are like completely different people, when they're not. I keep repeating it. A person is a person who is a person. The only reason people think any different is because they were raised being told that there is a difference between you and this guy because you have different skin tones, or eyes, or you lived in a different country.

THIS.

 

FREAKING THIS.

 

These issues are the result of people being afraid and wary of things that are different from them.

 

Rasism and heterosexism and cisexism and sexism and all other kinds of discrimination based on what's different are the problem.

 

If we lived in a society where that which is different from us is accepted and not treated as bad or negative in any way, then there would be no issues at all of this nature.

 

Kids who are of a different sexuality from their parents feel uncomfortable at times because they are afraid their parents will not love or accept them if they find out that they're different. If a child knows that they will be loved and accepted no matter what, they will not have that kind of fear.

 

It's true that people of different races don't share the exact same world view, and that different races have different cultures, even.

 

But the problems are not that we see the world differently--the problems arise when we refuse to accept that somebody else's worldview is just as valid as our own, and when we tear others down based on their differences from us rather than celebrating those differences as part of what makes us all human and accepting those differences.

 

It's not the differences that are the problem. It's the way society handles them.

[The Evil Doer]

Um, what does a zip code have to do with this? How people view things is not decided by their zip code...

Zip code means that you sparkle, have no idea what its like to be a girl from India/France/Sudan, different zip code different mentality...

[Vhale]

Also ignoring mixed race. My coworker has adopted 6 kids. Two black, two hispanic and two native american. In the black kids case, one was born addicted to crack. In the mexicans case, their mother locked them in a room in the house and tried to burn it down around them. In the native americans, their mother is an alchoholic which caused some problems with the two kids. One is autistic and the other is epileptic. Now he looks white, but his great grandfather is actually Full native american. Who was, in fact, lynched for getting a white girl pregnant.

 

The boys, 10-13, do know about some of the racial stereotypes and they also get a kick out of embarassing their dad and trying to make a scene, because they know how the average person looking on will react to the "appearance" of a racial kid getting "bullied" by a white guy. So they have some fun with it.

[ShinyTomato]

Zip code means that you sparkle, have no idea what its like to be a girl from India/France/Sudan, different zip code different mentality...

My best friend, who shares my worldview exactly lives in France, is a straight white male who never went to college and has never passed the channel. We're polar opposites.

[The Evil Doer]

Yes, I honestly think it has no factor. In fact, there is a large group of child development experts currently against the US's racial based adoption laws because it has been shown that the effect of being adopted into a mixed race or different racial group has no more of an effect on identity issues than adoption by the same culture or race.

 

So yes, in my expert opinion, based on years of research and a loooooong dissertation that sighted over eighty studies, I honestly believe there is no difference, because research has shown there is no difference.

 

I think you're ignoring the psychological effect of acceptance by those different from you, which is one of the prime developmental keys children need to establish a healthy internal locus of control. With only approval from those like them, a child is often stunted and develops an external locus.

Ok, cool, maybe Im old fashioned/outdated in my beliefs...

Its always a possibility

[The Evil Doer]

My best friend, who shares my worldview exactly lives in France, is a straight white male who never went to college and has never passed the channel. We're polar opposites.

Sharing worldview is just having similar values, what I said was that with him being male he cant possibly understand whats it like to live as a female in a world dominated by males...

In a same manner, white girl will never fully understand a black girl coz the world as she has experienced it, is not the same world...

[Snowytoshi]

Sharing worldview is just having similar values, what I said was that with him being male he cant possibly understand whats it like to live as a female in a world dominated by males...

In a same manner, white girl will never fully understand a black girl coz the world as she has experienced it, is not the same world...

This is true for everyone, no one will know how it is like to live another person's life. Even if you take a white high school age girl from the same city as me I will not know how she has lived or how she views the world.

[Riverwillows]

I think it's getting slightly off topic. Just me though.

[klinneah]

Sharing worldview is just having similar values, what I said was that with him being male he cant possibly understand whats it like to live as a female in a world dominated by males...

In a same manner, white girl will never fully understand a black girl coz the world as she has experienced it, is not the same world...

Of course. I am never going to have the unique experiences of a male, or a person of color because I am not one.

 

That doesn't mean that an environment filled with men or people of color is harmful to me.

 

To get back on topic, as ShinyTomato said it might actually be slightly more healthy for children to be raised in a non-homogeneous environment. I personally would have liked to grow up in something other than an all-white neighborhood when I was a kid so that when I got to high school seeing people of color wasn't so much of a culture shock.

Edited March 27, 2013 by klinneah

[Riverwillows]

Its just so silly to use religion and religious references to judge a secular institution.

Gonna quote myself for a further point here.

 

Because, if it IS a religious involved institution and not a secular one, then athiests should not be allowed to marry either. Simple logic. And if it's based on any ONE religious belief, as many will claim...then everyone NOT of that belief should not be allowed to marry either. See where this is going? Silly.

[ShinyTomato]

Gonna quote myself for a further point here.

 

Because, if it IS a religious involved institution and not a secular one, then athiests should not be allowed to marry either. Simple logic. And if it's based on any ONE religious belief, as many will claim...then everyone NOT of that belief should not be allowed to marry either. See where this is going? Silly.

Exactly. Another example, I can't be treated in a Catholic hospital because of my race. why? Because it's their hospital.

 

But I don't get mad if someone who is Catholic wants to go to a Catholic hospital.

[Vhale]

I am guessing a lot of this was brought on by Scalia's remarks about kids potentially being harmed by gays adopting them, today?

 

Here Are The 7 Worst Things Antonin Scalia Has Said Or Written About Homosexuality

 

 

[vintageandroid]

Just gonna leave this Buzzfeed article here: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-absolut...-8-at-the-supre

[tenyasyugan]

Heh, I love the one that points out how many other things the bible bans that people generally don't acknowledge...

 

Haircuts, football, tattoos, and polyester blends.

 

It's really sad that people have to constantly fight over privelages that are generally handed out like candy to anyone else though. I mean, marriage is a multi-faith institution now, not just that of a certain few.

[Vhale]

Gluttony and being rich are two big ones as well. I think so much controversy revolves around sex because it lets people poke at "others" without examining hard truths about themselves.

 

On an amusing note, remember unskewedpolls.com and the election, and how the right wing was convinced all the polls were plain wrong? Well... apparently some people aren't tired of that excuse yet.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/201...arriage.html?dp

 

BAUER: No, I'm not worried about it because the polls are skewed, Chris. Just this past November, four states, very liberal states, voted on this issue. And my side lost all four of those votes. But my side had 45, 46 percent of the vote in all four of those liberal states. In fact, those marriage amendments that I supported, that would keep marriage of a man and a woman, out ran Mitt Romney in those four liberal states by an average of five points.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Vhale

[hazeh]

I'm curious, has anyone here changed their FB picture to the red equality sign? I have, including my family, and a good majority of my friends. It's overwhelming to see so much red on my news feed!

[Alpha Gryph]

I'm curious, has anyone here changed their FB picture to the red equality sign? I have, including my family, and a good majority of my friends. It's overwhelming to see so much red on my news feed!

 

 

I was incredibly surprised at the amount of people on my friends list who changed their picture. Some I had no idea were in support of equal rights, so it was a day brightener.