Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[brairtrainer]

*offers another hug to Shiny, as well as peppermint tea and chocolate*

 

We talked about how the court could rule in class today. We have a very conservative woman in our class. She let out a loud question wondering why they were fighting for marriage and that what did it matter that they were called civil unions? I mentioned some of the rights that gays were denighed you know what she said then? "That's stupid. They should be able to see their loved ones (hospital)."

 

So maybe there's hope Shiny

[hazeh]

*huggles little Shiny*

 

No matter what they say, no matter how cruel people are, you just need to remember to stay calm and be better, and there is always hope on the horizon. Thirty years ago we wouldn't have been here.

/snugs big Shiny

 

:c Yeah... it just makes me so sad, seeing people talk that way. Intentionally treating other people that way, people who have done nothing to them whatsoever... They claim "God" and "Jesus" but I can't understand how that's supposed to mean anything when they use those words to hurt and inflict pain on others, including children.

And the way they claim to know how children think! Someone mentioned something along the lines of:

 

"Ask a child whether they would rather have a dad & a mom or gay parents, and I guarantee they will always say "dad & mom" "

 

I was like, what? no!

 

:c

[purpledragonclaw]

I made the mistake of scrolling down to the comment's section on the Yahoo! news article about the SCOTUS ruling on Prop 8 today.

 

Now I'm just sick to my stomach because people are so cruel. ;n;

Come on, guys, what's so hard about letting my moms have a legal marriage? Why's that such a difficult thing to wrap your heads around? :c

Shiny, could you link that article please? I'd like to check it out.

[PointOfOrigin]

I wish they asked me that. They would get a nice lecture on how I would prefer gay parents then a straight no good father.

 

I'd like to know what they would say to that.

[Riverwillows]

Aww Shiny, I'm sorry. But let this be a lesson to you: NEVER EVER read the comments on ANY article about controversial issues.

 

You will live a much happier life for it. Here, have a cookie.

 

[The Evil Doer]

And the way they claim to know how children think! Someone mentioned something along the lines of:

 

"Ask a child whether they would rather have a dad & a mom or gay parents, and I guarantee they will always say "dad & mom" "

 

I was like, what? no!

 

:c

What do you mean no ?? Majority of children would rather have mom and dad and not two parents of the same sex, what child would choose to be different and hence exposed to ridicule ? What child who isnt gay himself/herself would rather have homosexual parents (different than him/her) ? Makes no sense...

[PointOfOrigin]

What do you mean no ?? Majority of children would rather have mom and dad and not two parents of the same sex, what child would choose to be different and hence exposed to ridicule ? What child who isnt gay himself/herself would rather have homosexual parents (different than him/her) ? Makes no sense...

Look up my previous post. And yes, I'm a straight kid. I'd rather I had a happy home to return to, after school. Kids will be ridiculed in school either way. Children are cruel and they find the smallest thing possible as an offense.

Edited March 26, 2013 by PointOfOrigin

[The Evil Doer]

Look up my previous post. And yes, I'm a straight kid. I'd rather I had a happy home to return to, after school. Kids will be ridiculed in school either way. Children are cruel and they find the smallest thing possible as an offense.

I'm sorry you dont have a happy home but thats not what I said... You would rather have a happy home with straight parents than one with homosexual parents if you are straight, thats what I said, thats true for most cases coz nobody would prefer difference over similarity...

[PointOfOrigin]

I'm sorry you dont have a happy home but thats not what I said... You would rather have a happy home with straight parents than one with homosexual parents if you are straight, thats what I said, thats true for most cases coz nobody would prefer difference over similarity...

In that case I just wouldn't care. A good parent is a good parent no matter who s/he loves.

[The Evil Doer]

In that case I just wouldn't care. A good parent is a good parent no matter who s/he loves.

You think so but you would mind, parents are your first connection to the world, straight kid with homosexual parents is growing up in an "alternative dimension", he wants to be like his dad but he likes girls unlike his dad, micro world (home) and macro world are conflicted and kids dont like conflicted coz kids dont have brain evolved enough to deal with discrepancies.. In a similar manner a homosexual kid is conflicted when growing up with straight parents...

Most kids rather have similarity, psychology of humans....

[TheDarkCynder]

I'm sorry you dont have a happy home but thats not what I said... You would rather have a happy home with straight parents than one with homosexual parents if you are straight, thats what I said, thats true for most cases coz nobody would prefer difference over similarity...

That's not true. I'd rather have either one, as long as they loved me.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm sorry you dont have a happy home but thats not what I said... You would rather have a happy home with straight parents than one with homosexual parents if you are straight, thats what I said, thats true for most cases coz nobody would prefer difference over similarity...

NONE of the people I know with gay parents - only one of whom is gay herself - give a TOSS. They love their parents just the way they are and have NEVER wanted them to be other than who they are.

 

But when they hear people say things like that - it hurts. Because they KNOW you are wrong.

 

And who says no-one would prefer difference over similarity ? If that were so, children would all prefer two parents of the same sex as they are themselves. Show me ANY evidence of what you have said, please.

 

Kids and ridicule. We three all got ridiculed for the sandwiches my mother used to make us. I have a lot of sympathy for those doing the teasing, actually . They were - pretty odd. Kids just pick on whatever they can find to use., ANYTHING.

[tenyasyugan]

I grew up with essentially just my mother along with any boyfriends she got along the way, and to be perfectly frank I think that those with homosexual parents actually get the better end of the stick. Not only do both parents relate to eachother more [they're often not restricted by most gender boundaries that society puts in place in male to female relations] but, to adopt a child they must have already proven that they sincerely wanted a kid, versus my situation where I was unplanned and became a part of why my biological father divorced my mother [he was also just a horrible druggy in general, but whatevs].

 

I don't see why it's an issue to give other human beings the same rights that you give yourself. :/ Seriously, marriage isn't even something that exists just in christianity, judaism, or islam. It exists in a variety of faiths these days and shouldn't be restricted by the few that hold personal feelings against certain variations of it.

 

Also, as for what I would have chosen if given the choice between a heterosexual couple and a homosexual couple as parents, I would choose the homosexual couple, if only because they would already have devoted the time and resources towards planning for and getting me versus the couple where I would have likely been a mistake or have dealt with various issues between the parents. I think there's a fair amount of research from a study that's been going on for the past so many years that shows homosexual couples are much more likely to have an accepting and positive home compared to heterosexual couples.

[hazeh]

What do you mean no ?? Majority of children would rather have mom and dad and not two parents of the same sex, what child would choose to be different and hence exposed to ridicule ? What child who isnt gay himself/herself would rather have homosexual parents (different than him/her) ? Makes no sense...

No, because children want parents who can love and take care of them. It doesn't matter the sexuality of their parents.

I will always choose my moms because they have been the most wonderful parents I have ever known. My sister will always choose our moms over her adoptive parents because they abused and neglected her.

 

I have had COUNTLESS number of people come up to me and tell me that they wish they had two moms (or even two dads) because then they'd feel more wanted in their own home. There are a LOT of children living in crap houses with straight parents, and there are a lot of gay parents out there that could have done those children a lot better.

 

Plenty of children are straight that have gay parents. Sexuality has NOTHING to do with your family relationships and how well you manage as a family member.

 

 

Also, here's that link. There is some profanity in the comments.

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=126308&hl=

 

 

 

(Also, I read the comments section on articles like this all the time... it's like a drug, I can't stay away! I've been doing that for ten years....)

[Riverwillows]

I know many gay couples, and many of them have young kids...adopted or biological. Every one of those kids (ages 3-13) are happy, healthy, love their parents, and have been asked several times these questions. I've actually heard some of them answer people, and they all love their family and wouldn't change it.

 

2 ten year olds, and 1 13 year old, all are heterosexual, like the opposite sex, and have no problems discussing it with their parents, nor do they feel any kind of conflict.

 

I think, that people who say there is a problem, don't know any of these kids personally, and might just be basing their ideas on what "people say". Which is incorrect 99% of the time.

[hazeh]

Most people claim that they know what kids are thinking because they don't understand it themselves.

 

But really, kids are a lot smarter than people give them credit for. Kids have their own thoughts and feelings. Just because you (general) don't understand, doesn't mean they won't.

 

And seriously, the whole "they'll be confused because they'll have two moms/dads and don't know what to call them" is such a load of BS that it drives it crazy!

 

Edit: call, not tell!

Edited March 26, 2013 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Completely Different]

You think so but you would mind, parents are your first connection to the world, straight kid with homosexual parents is growing up in an "alternative dimension", he wants to be like his dad but he likes girls unlike his dad, micro world (home) and macro world are conflicted and kids dont like conflicted coz kids dont have brain evolved enough to deal with discrepancies.. In a similar manner a homosexual kid is conflicted when growing up with straight parents...

Most kids rather have similarity, psychology of humans....

Sure, you'll want to have things similar to your parents, but you don't need to have everything the same? I don't need to enjoy shopping like my mom, or mathematics like my dad to enjoy their company and love them. (And yes, I really do think those things are just as important as sexuality, at least to them).

 

The reasons homosexual kids can feel conflicted growing up in straight households will almost always be that they don't know if their parents will accept them, or don't understand where those feelings are coming from or what they mean. As long as parents, no matter their sexual orientation, is accepting of their children and willing to give them the support and education they need, that conflict isn't there.

[keijaidyyn]

We talked about how the court could rule in class today. We have a very conservative woman in our class. She let out a loud question wondering why they were fighting for marriage and that what did it matter that they were called civil unions? I mentioned some of the rights that gays were denighed you know what she said then? "That's stupid. They should be able to see their loved ones (hospital)."

I'm glad to hear of an example of someone who can look past their prejudices and understand exactly how messed up the current law is... I've had a somewhat similar situation before where the man who I explained the differences to outright said "Well that's what they get for being fags and sinners."

 

Just so happens my professor was gay and kicked him out of the room when he started screaming after the professor reminded him of that. I never saw him in that class again.

[Vhale]

Kids don't care about stuff like that until people teach them to.

 

We used to run a daycare out of our house. We had a nice little 6 year old boy whose dad was black and whose mom was white. His dad was from Harlem and he went home with him for the holidays. When he came back, he was unhappy and decided he didn't like black anymore. That he was white and that was all. He never wold say why, but we pointed out that is favorite singer was black, so if he didn't like black anymore he couldn't listen to his music anymore. Being that both myself and my mother are redheads with freckles, I also pointed out that if black and white was trouble, what did he think of us? We were all spotty D: It was a bit hilarious, he'd never noticed the freckles before. He just asked VERY seriously if my mother had spots too. Then kid style, very conspicuously slid up next to her while she was doing something to get his nose 2 inches from her arm while he looked. He decided it wasn't a big deal with those two things.

[The Evil Doer]

NONE of the people I know with gay parents - only one of whom is gay herself - give a TOSS. They love their parents just the way they are and have NEVER wanted them to be other than who they are.

 

But when they hear people say things like that - it hurts. Because they KNOW you are wrong.

 

And who says no-one would prefer difference over similarity ? If that were so, children would all prefer two parents of the same sex as they are themselves. Show me ANY evidence of what you have said, please.

 

Kids and ridicule. We three all got ridiculed for the sandwiches my mother used to make us. I have a lot of sympathy for those doing the teasing, actually . They were - pretty odd. Kids just pick on whatever they can find to use., ANYTHING.

Why would anyone who was given love and care (great childhood) not love their parents ?

Thats not what I said, I said that kids get conflicted and conflict leads to certain issues, your straight friends when they were 4 years old, they grew up knowing that dad loves dad, thats their world, thats all they know (4 yo kid), then they see dad and mom outside, their world is suddenly changed, 4 yo kid cant understand that some people are homosexuals and others not, 4 yo kid is conflicted, it has an impact on him.. To some the impact is bigger to others not but kids dont want conflicted realities coz kids arent evolved enough to understand nor cope with stuff, its just too much for a small brain (kids are on that monkey see monkey do)...

 

 

Evidence ? There is an entire field called "developmental psychology"... Check it out....

Edited March 26, 2013 by The Evil Doer

[Vhale]

Why would anyone who was given love and care (great childhood) not love their parents ?

Thats not what I said, I said that kids get conflicted and conflict leads to certain issues, your straight friends when they were 4 years old, they grew up knowing that dad loves dad, thats their world, thats all they know (4 yo kid), then they see dad and mom outside, their world is suddenly changed, 4 yo kid cant understand that some people are homosexuals and others not, 4 yo kid is conflicted, it has an impact on him.. To some the impact is bigger to others not but kids dont want conflicted realities coz kids arent evolved enough to understand nor cope with stuff, its just too much for a small brain (kids are on that monkey see monkey do)...

 

 

Evidence ? There is an entire field called "developmental psychology"... Check it out....

One of our kids (6 going on 7) saw Look who's Talking. One scene, Kristi Ally gulps down a gallon of orange juice. So she wanted to know if drinking orange juice would get her pregnant.

 

Kids have wild leaps of logic. Being conflicted about whether orange juice would get her pregnant didn't scar her though.

[hazeh]

Why would anyone who was given love and care (great childhood) not love their parents ?

Thats not what I said, I said that kids get conflicted and conflict leads to certain issues, your straight friends when they were 4 years old, they grew up knowing that dad loves dad, thats their world, thats all they know (4 yo kid), then they see dad and mom outside, their world is suddenly changed, 4 yo kid cant understand that some people are homosexuals and others not, 4 yo kid is conflicted, it has an impact on him.. To some the impact is bigger to others not but kids dont want conflicted realities coz kids arent evolved enough to understand nor cope with stuff, its just too much for a small brain (kids are on that monkey see monkey do)...

 

 

Evidence ? There is an entire field called "developmental psychology"... Check it out....

Uh, no.

 

That is absolutely wrong, I don't even know where to start.

 

I grew up my entire life with gay parents. Not ONCE was I "conflicted" or "confused". A 4 year old is MORE than capable of understanding that some people are gay and some people are straight- I did! My little sister knows that some people have two mommies, some have two daddies, some have a mom and a dad, some have either a mom or a dad. Or some live with their grandparents, etc.

Kids are NOT stupid.

 

I knew that a lot of my friends, when I was younger, had moms and dads. I had two moms. So? I never questioned it. It was normal because everyone's family was different. There never needs to be an in depth, detailed explanation when it comes to those things.

 

edit:

But you know the cool thing about kids?

They grow up. They LEARN. And in doing so, they become wiser and more well-rounded individuals. A kid that is sheltered and catered to on every whim is going to have the hardest time on their own, rather than a kid that is taught the differences in life (including those in the family life) and has grown more because of it.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[tenyasyugan]

Why would anyone who was given love and care (great childhood) not love their parents ?

Thats not what I said, I said that kids get conflicted and conflict leads to certain issues, your straight friends when they were 4 years old, they grew up knowing that dad loves dad, thats their world, thats all they know (4 yo kid), then they see dad and mom outside, their world is suddenly changed, 4 yo kid cant understand that some people are homosexuals and others not, 4 yo kid is conflicted, it has an impact on him.. To some the impact is bigger to others not but kids dont want conflicted realities coz kids arent evolved enough to understand nor cope with stuff, its just too much for a small brain (kids are on that monkey see monkey do)...

 

 

Evidence ? There is an entire field called "developmental psychology"... Check it out....

Kids get conflicted about a lot of things. I get conflicted about our society in general and why the heck money is so vital when I'd rather have helping people as a goal and expressing myself however I see fit. I've seen kids get conflicted over food because of things they see or learn, and I know people who are conflicted over education.

 

Just because there's conflict that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. I mean, I know I was conflicted about divorce. But, then I learned more and now I'm not so conflicted. I accept that it happens and is sometimes necessary and it isn't right to judge someone about their personal decision that should only be between them and their partner [much like many other things].

 

As a kid, I ended up being conflicted about making friends with older kids. :/ I ended up making lots of friends of various ages. Also, bullying and harassment happens irregardless of upbringing. I can't tell you just how many people I've known who've had to grow up with all kinds of abuse at the hands of others, and they come from all kinds of backgrounds.

 

Sure, it may suck for a bit when you find out your life is different from other people, but you eventually learn something important. Everyone's lives are different and we shouldn't judge them based solely on that.

Edited March 26, 2013 by tenyasyugan

[Rachel72]

Everyone has a right to choose who they want to be married to.. whether you are gay or straight. If 2 ppl are in love... WHO CARES!! its their choice not yours..

[Fuzzbucket]

Why would anyone who was given love and care (great childhood) not love their parents ?

Thats not what I said, I said that kids get conflicted and conflict leads to certain issues, your straight friends when they were 4 years old, they grew up knowing that dad loves dad, thats their world, thats all they know (4 yo kid), then they see dad and mom outside, their world is suddenly changed, 4 yo kid cant understand that some people are homosexuals and others not, 4 yo kid is conflicted, it has an impact on him.. To some the impact is bigger to others not but kids dont want conflicted realities coz kids arent evolved enough to understand nor cope with stuff, its just too much for a small brain (kids are on that monkey see monkey do)...

 

 

Evidence ? There is an entire field called "developmental psychology"... Check it out....

They know people love other people and that their parents love each other. Children are a LOT more savvy and sensible than grownups think.

 

I wish I had had parents I felt love for. I wasn't abused or anything - but as a friend of mine said once of her own parents, "I guess I love my parents and that, but if they weren't my parents I wouldn't wish they were." I didn't even love mine.

 

And what of a gay kid with male/female parents ? Would THEY be conflicted ? Because I can assure you there are children who know they are gay by the age of 5.

 

What children need is parents they are certain love them. The rest doesn't matter a bit.

 

ETA By the way I learned a lot of this from experience (68 years of it) but also in postgrad level developmental child psychology class. Just saying.

Edited March 26, 2013 by fuzzbucket