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MURDERcomplexx

Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

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I suspect what would bother more women about unisex bathrooms is like in stores. They always seem to be in the back, blocked by lots of shelves and down a dark corridor. Going into a lonely back room with a strange man in there, I can see why that would squick people out.It's pretty much what women are told to NOT do.

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I suspect what would bother more women about unisex bathrooms is like in stores. They always seem to be in the back, blocked by lots of shelves and down a dark corridor. Going into a lonely back room with a strange man in there, I can see why that would squick people out. It's pretty much what women are told to NOT do.

Everywhere but in the stalls has cameras in most shops. wink.gif

 

Plus, a store is a very public place. There's literally not a chance that something could happen, since there's always someone within the hearing range. And to add to that, bathrooms are typically at the end of the same corridor anyway - men to the right, women to the left, and the crippled just have a single room in between, or some variation of that. Essentially, nothing would change.

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Ahh...I just caught on to what is currently being discussed. The thought of a unisex bathroom does bother me. Seems too weird and maybe even creepy for my taste. *shiver*

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Everywhere but in the stalls has cameras in most shops. wink.gif

 

Plus, a store is a very public place. There's literally not a chance that something could happen, since there's always someone within the hearing range. And to add to that, bathrooms are typically at the end of the same corridor anyway - men to the right, women to the left, and the crippled just have a single room in between, or some variation of that. Essentially, nothing would change.

Actually you'd be surprised. People can manage sex in public places, rape can happen there, too. How about if the attacker threatens the victim and the victim is honestly afraid that they will be hurt or killed before help can arrive? Or somebody comes up behind them and somehow stops them from bein able to scream loud enough to get help?

 

Actually a quick google search turns up a disturbing number of stories about people who claim to have been raped in store bathrooms. I'll check a few of them shortly for details, but claiming rape--sometimes armed rape--in a public place is far from unheard of and a far cry from having zero chance to happen.

 

And if rape can happen... Why not something less obvious like creepy pictures being taken or inappropriate comments/gestures/non-rape but unwanted sexual contact?

 

That said, I'm in favor of adding unisex bathrooms as long as you keep male/female ones. At the very least it'll help people who aren't accustomed to the idea of people preferring a bathroom that doesn't match their genitals.

 

But... It's kinda sad that people have to be afraid of strange men. Rape cultute sucks.

Edited by KageSora

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I know my transgender child would love to be able to go to the bathroom that they feel is "right" inside, not for the one that is dictated by their body.

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Everywhere but in the stalls has cameras in most shops. wink.gif

 

Plus, a store is a very public place. There's literally not a chance that something could happen, since there's always someone within the hearing range. And to add to that, bathrooms are typically at the end of the same corridor anyway - men to the right, women to the left, and the crippled just have a single room in between, or some variation of that. Essentially, nothing would change.

If it were really that simple and easy, shop lifting wouldn't be a problem. I think I've been in enough stores and shops to speak from experience on the old creepy hallway thing. Dismissing people's concerns doesn't make them go away.

There's a reason why so many horror movies kill people in bathrooms /plays psycho music

It plays into people's fears.

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But there has to be a solution to bathrooms that does not involve "Oh, a trans person should just suck it up and go to the washroom that fits the body they were born with." It won't work. Want to know why?

 

I'm physically female, personally uncaring, but I will say 'female' if asked. I'm happy with my body, but I've confused people because, depending on how many pains I take, I look either male or female. I've had girls say "Oh god get this boy out of the washroom". I've had girls mock me because I dress like a tomboy but look female otherwise. People have thrown water on me, pulled my hair, and kicked me in the stomach for looking 'iffy', called me names, threatened me. If I get that and I'm physically female and identify as female, I can't imagine how much worse it would be for someone who's trans and forced to deal with people like that.

 

That said, a unisex bathroom would probably (hypothetically?) have people who are at least open to the idea that, hey, maybe gender isn't decided by sex, and you know what, maybe they can do something as innocent as going to the bathroom in peace. It might have its dangers - but at least closed-minded transphobic people wouldn't be one of them.

 

It's really coming down to one of two things on this issue: Convince all the people to be tolerant of each other, or build unisex bathrooms so they don't all have to be. It would be lovely if the former could be managed, but since it's unlikely, it's probably got to be the latter.

 

----

 

EDIT: And my post got snipped. I'm kind of appalled that rights for homosexual people or trans people even have to be debated. As far as I care, if they look human and aren't axe murderers or something, they deserve the same rights as anyone else. Their sexual orientation doesn't affect me or any part of my life, so why should I be against it?

Edited by Xylene

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That said, I'm in favor of adding unisex bathrooms as long as you keep male/female ones.  At the very least it'll help people who aren't accustomed to the idea of people preferring a bathroom that doesn't match their genitals.

 

Same. I think everyone has a right to feel comfortable in public bathrooms, meaning there should be male, female, and unisex, since personally I'd be uncomfortable having to share a bathroom with the opposite sex. Not because of any "rape culture" stereotypes though, it's just my own personal preference.

 

I don't know why they wouldn't just add a unisex bathroom instead of arresting trans folks for going into the "wrong" one. That sounds a tad extreme.

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How about if the attacker threatens the victim and the victim is honestly afraid that they will be hurt or killed before help can arrive? Or somebody comes up behind them and somehow stops them from being able to scream loud enough to get help?

 

Why not something less obvious like creepy pictures being taken or inappropriate comments/gestures/non-rape but unwanted sexual contact?

Those attackers wouldn't be deterred by a gender sign on a door, either. I was essentially just pointing out that store bathrooms are amongst the safest of places - not safe, but one of the safer ones. The average apartment building is a lot more dangerous place.

 

As for the second half - the only people I've ever gotten that from are teenaged girls in all-female bathrooms, so again, having bathrooms separated by sex does not do a thing against it.

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I don't know why they wouldn't just add a unisex bathroom instead of arresting trans folks for going into the "wrong" one.  That sounds a tad extreme.

I'm half-wondering if they WANT to arrest trans folks for a silly reason - that they don't want to look for a solution and it's some perverse attempt to make the world 'better'. That, and it would cost money to build a new washroom, whereas it would probably be easier (in a very, VERY stupid way) to just arrest them. Tossing people in jail would cost less than renovations, right? [/sarcasm]

 

I think of it like how if you're angry at someone, you latch on to the first thing they do that pisses you off so you have a 'right' to be upset and start a fight. The problem isn't what they did - it's that you never liked them in the first place. What they did is a flimsy excuse, and if someone asks you "Why did you punch them?" you can say "They stepped into my personal space" instead of "I just don't like them."

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Plus there are cameras everywhere except in the bathrooms, but definately trained on the bathroom door. And people hired to do nothing BUT watch those cameras. They see ANYTHING looks off, they will report it asap. So no chance for anything hanky.

 

And the idea that if they allow Trans to use different bathrooms will lead to hanky panky, is just yet another of the bigoted assumptions people use to justify their hatreds.

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Yeah, the whole Arizona thing makes me very uncomfortable, especially considering I have two trans friends who are both pre-op FtM and I myself don't identify particularly stronger with either gender and could pass as a man if I had my hair cut short and compressed my breasts to hide them... (I've done it a time or two for costumes and am considering going with a short pixie cut next I visit a barber...) I just feel like this world in general needs a massive "cleaning" to rid itself of a lot of these problems, but apparently humans are too altruistic to do what's best for the species so it'll never happen. Don't take that the wrong way... I'm not a crazy killer or anything, just very disappointed in the state of society. I feel like a lot of politicians lately act more like petulant brats than intelligent, thinking adults and that really needs to change before the entire social structure collapses. I'm already looking to get out of the US as soon as I have the financial backing to manage it. dry.gif

 

Note: I am female. I identify as female and am biologically female, but I do not fit the "typical woman" archetype very well.

I do not identify male, but I do have certain male personality traits along with some female traits, so I'm kind of floating in between.

I'm also bi-romantic, so that doesn't help my identity issues.

 

EDIT: I am reasonably comfortable with the concept of unisex bathrooms provided there are no urinals and sufficient stall security. It shouldn't matter what gender goes in if there are floor-to-ceiling stalls. Personally I think anyone worried about rape should be carrying some sort of self-defense tool anyway. Personally I carry a small can of mace for emergencies as well as keeping a very loud whistle on my keyring, though I am not particularly attractive so I'm not too worried about it.

Edited by keijaidyyn

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I've never lived anywhere with so much camera surveilance. It must be odd. Would have helped when at my college the same guy kept running in and out of school buildings and masturbating at random women, including one of my room mates. They never did catch him. I had a guy that tried to follow me all over campus. If the guy was allowed to follow me into bathrooms, I'd right freak the hell out. Ugh. As is, I had to replan when I took the bus just to avoid him. The guy never did anything illegal or actionable, he was just creepy as hell. If I was faced with this choice on campus, all unisex bathrooms, that is what my choice would really be about in my mind. Creepy stalkerish guy can follow me into bathroom? D:

 

On a sober note, there was an article in Aljazeera that made an interesting point. That a lot of people are talking and acting like, if the court decided to legalize it, it's a done deal. game over. But, abortion has been legal for 40 years. Birth control 50 years. The Jim Crow laws, 50 years? And they are still trying to legalize against it. it just never ends. So don't ever expect to let your guard down either way. Link

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Yeah, the whole Arizona thing makes me very uncomfortable, especially considering I have two trans friends who are both pre-op FtM and I myself don't identify particularly stronger with either gender and could pass as a man if I had my hair cut short and compressed my breasts to hide them... (I've done it a time or two for costumes and am considering going with a short pixie cut next I visit a barber...) I just feel like this world in general needs a massive "cleaning" to rid itself of a lot of these problems, but apparently humans are too altruistic to do what's best for the species so it'll never happen. Don't take that the wrong way... I'm not a crazy killer or anything, just very disappointed in the state of society. I feel like a lot of politicians lately act more like petulant brats than intelligent, thinking adults and that really needs to change before the entire social structure collapses. I'm already looking to get out of the US as soon as I have the financial backing to manage it.  dry.gif

 

Note: I am female. I identify as female and am biologically female, but I do not fit the "typical woman" archetype very well.

I do not identify male, but I do have certain male personality traits along with some female traits, so I'm kind of floating in between.

I'm also bi-romantic, so that doesn't help my identity issues.

I don't think they should get rid of urinals.

 

My brother would piss on the seat and not bother to clean it up too often. He seems to have stopped since I informed him that I would be wiping the seat off with his bath towel every time he pissed all over it.

 

I've heard plenty of other people complain about males they live with doing the same thing.

 

I've heard some guys say it's hard to aim--and I think they should have a urinal so that the women (or guys taking a dump) don't have to wipe somebody else's piss off the seat to use it.

 

Of course, there are some women who are just as messy...

 

But I think that both should be allowed. If you really have a problem with urinals, why not urinals in a stall? You could have some of the stalls with urinals in them (and clearly marked) or a walled-off area for the urinals.

 

EDIT: I am reasonably comfortable with the concept of unisex bathrooms provided there are no urinals and sufficient stall security. It shouldn't matter what gender goes in if there are floor-to-ceiling stalls. Personally I think anyone worried about rape should be carrying some sort of self-defense tool anyway. Personally I carry a small can of mace for emergencies as well as keeping a very loud whistle on my keyring, though I am not particularly attractive so I'm not too worried about it.

 

Please, please, please--for your sake, DO NOT assume that you're not going to get raped or otherwise sexually assaulted or harassed because there are better looking people out there!

 

It's a myth that rape is ALWAYS about the sex for sex and is done by horny guys (or girls). Rape is often used as a weapon. Some people do it because they're angry at (wo)men and pick a target to assault because of that. Others do it as a power thing--it makes them feel powerful to have that kind of control over another person, to violate them like that.

 

Just because you may not be the most attractive person around doesn't automatically mean you have significantly lower odds of being sexually assaulted in some fashion.

 

Yes, it might deter some people. But other people are going to not care what you look like because it's not about the sex, it's about something else.

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Here is a solution:

 

Have unisex bathrooms. have an equal number of urinals and toilets. BUT put each urinal, and each toilet in box stalls, with just a single door. Roof and sides covered. No peeping, and complete security for both guys and girls. Camera in the wash up area, but not in the stalls.

 

That way, no one is at risk, no one can be assaulted, and total privacy for all.

Edited by Riverwillows

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Here is a solution:

 

Have unisex bathrooms. have an equal number of urinals and toilets. BUT put each urinal, and each toilet in box stalls, with just a single door. Roof and sides covered. No peeping, and complete security for both guys and girls. Camera in the wash up area, but not in the stalls.

 

That way, no one is at risk, no one can be assaulted, and total privacy for all.

It's not economically efficient or possible, it would cost too much.

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The cost would actually be much less than the lawsuits, bill funding, and other legal issues the current situation is bringing about.

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I didn't even consider unisex bathrooms, as I don't think I've ever seen one (maybe once?). I've just seen family, male, and female. A small unisex bathroom in addition to the female and male ones would be nice. Wouldn't have to be too huge, would be financially reasonable. I don't like the idea of making all bathrooms unisex, though.

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Not to be a stick in the mud or mini-modding, but wouldn't this thread be more appropriate for this discussion? I really fail to see how this relates to gay marriage...

 

unsure.gif

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How do you guys feel about the proposal in Arizona that makes it an arrestable offense for trans* people to use the "wrong" bathroom?

..... OMG I hate my state right now. WTH, Arizona??

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Not to be a stick in the mud or mini-modding, but wouldn't this thread be more appropriate for this discussion? I really fail to see how this relates to gay marriage...

 

unsure.gif

AGREEEMENT!!!

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Lol, yeah, probably. We should move the discussion over there.

 

I think it was brought up here because this is seen as a general LGBT thread, even though it mostly focuses on homosexuality.

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Maybe a mod could move the posts on the subject to the other topic or something? Can they do that? I know they can merge topics...

Edited by KageSora

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Oops, we have gotten a bit off topic. Thanks Shiny smile.gif

I think they can move just a few posts over.

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I made the mistake of scrolling down to the comment's section on the Yahoo! news article about the SCOTUS ruling on Prop 8 today.

 

Now I'm just sick to my stomach because people are so cruel. ;n;

Come on, guys, what's so hard about letting my moms have a legal marriage? Why's that such a difficult thing to wrap your heads around? :c

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