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MURDERcomplexx

Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

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If you just come to a Dragon Cave forum to argue that "being gay is wrong", I would think you have not completed your mission. I'm sorry, but I am not convinced at all.

 

Edit: Well said Shiny Hazard Sign. I...almost envy you. wink.gif

And may I ask what does the rainbow ♀ sign in your sig stand for?

Edited by love_HP

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Oooh, science. Obviously, there's more and better reports out there, but I was rushing and couldn't research for too long.

 

Evolutionary mystery of homosexuality, possibilities of how it was accepted by natural selection: http://chronicle.com/article/The-Evolution...tery-of/135762/

 

Molecules that influence genes, can affect sexuality: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012...-genes-its-them

 

The idea of sexually antagonistic selection, supports natural male homosexuality: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80617204459.htm

 

Epigenetics, genetic underpinning of homosexuality: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/...21211101832.htm

 

Animals, homosexuality in: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90616122106.htm

 

Edited because I apparently can't spell homo.

Edited by Dimar

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I read an article awhile back that just made me wonder. It was about how the boy scouts were going to allow gay children and gay scout masters, or that they were thinking about it. Or something.

 

Anyway, the article itself was well-written, full of facts, and offered food for thought.

 

The responses were so amazing, and not in a good way. One basically insinuated that gay men everywhere were gonna join the scouts, and were unzipping their pants in anticipation.

 

Most of the comments were of that caliber. It made me so sad to see such determined ignorance by so many people.

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Oooh, science. Obviously, there's more and better reports out there, but I was rushing and couldn't research for too long.

 

Evolutionary mystery of homosexuality, possibilities of how it was accepted by natural selection: http://chronicle.com/article/The-Evolution...tery-of/135762/

 

Molecules that influence genes, can affect sexuality: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012...-genes-its-them

 

The idea of sexually antagonistic selection, supports natural male homosexuality: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80617204459.htm

 

Epigenetics, genetic underpinning of homosexuality: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/...21211101832.htm

 

Animals, homosexuality in: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90616122106.htm

 

Edited because I apparently can't spell homo.

I was reading through your links and found this in the first one:

 

In the early 1990s, a geneticist at the National Institutes of Health led a study that reported the existence of a specific allele, Xq28, located on the X chromosome, that predicted gay- versus-straight sexual orientation in men.

 

Hmm. wink.gif

Edited by HollyTheColliegirl

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In the early 1990s, a geneticist at the National Institutes of Health led a study that reported the existence of a specific allele, Xq28, located on the X chromosome, that predicted gay- versus-straight sexual orientation in men.

I've seen that last year. dry.gif

There's even a website xq28.org (I don't know what language is used in that website... except for "born to be gay" in the title lol

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Edit: Well said Shiny Hazard Sign. I...almost envy you. wink.gif

And may I ask what does the rainbow ♀ sign in your sig stand for?

Ah!

It's a symbol for lesbian. I, surprisingly or not, am also a lesbian. smile.gif

 

Now, when I tell people this, most of the time I get asked, "Oh, so you were raised as a lesbian?"

As if my moms took every opportunity to go, "Don't look at that boy, instead look at this pretty girl. Isn't she pretty? MARRY A GIRL"

Pfft, no. Nothing of the sort. (I'm not saying you're going to react this way, but some people do.)

 

In fact, it was quite the opposite. I thought I was boy crazy when I was little, because in truth I did not want to be gay. I wanted to be straight. I wanted to be straight because anti-gay people would continuously spout nonsense on how "gays raise gays!" so that I would be living proof that, no, in fact, they don't.

Well, that certainly didn't turn out like I had hoped.

 

Through middle school, I convinced myself that I liked boys. I would talk about boys with my friends and even my moms (we still talk about how adorable Justin Timberlake is. Mom said, and I quote, "I just want to pinch his little tush.") and claim to have crushes on certain guys. I had boyfriends when I got older, too.

It was toward the end of middle school that I started realizing that I didn't know myself as well as I thought. When my family moved to a more liberal and accepting area (yay California!), I was surrounded by people that were suddenly very open and friendly and accepting. I realized, over time, that I was indeed attracted to women- and I began to notice it from my childhood, how I would rather watch female dancers on stage than the men, how I coveted posters of female singers and artists more than boy bands. (Though I'm still a big N'Sync fan)

I was, however, embarrassed to "come out". I thought people would think I was silly or looking for attention, or that my moms would think it was odd (strange, I know!). I was really stressed because I wasn't going to be that kid of the gay couple that could say, "Look I'm exactly what you thought I couldn't be." Turns out I can only be about 75% of that. But, when I came out, no one cared. It was great!

 

Then, in high school, I actually fell in love with a girl. It was a difficult relationship, because she had emotional problems of her own and had issues accepting herself, but in the three years that I was with her, I finally came to the conclusion that I really don't find men sexually appealing whatsoever. Like, I can appreciate someone that is attractive, male or female, but that doesn't make me want to jump their bones or kiss their face. That has only ever happened with women, and now I'm glad that I can embrace myself fully and not be ashamed. I don't want to be ashamed, because it really has nothing to do with how my moms raised me. There wasn't anything they did as parents that made me gay, as I would have discovered these feelings regardless of the sexuality of my parents.

 

I do know, however, an overwhelming amount of straight kids from gay parents. c: We're all pretty cool people.

 

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I read an article awhile back that just made me wonder. It was about how the boy scouts were going to allow gay children and gay scout masters, or that they were thinking about it. Or something.

 

Anyway, the article itself was well-written, full of facts, and offered food for thought.

 

The responses were so amazing, and not in a good way. One basically insinuated that gay men everywhere were gonna join the scouts, and were unzipping their pants in anticipation.

 

Most of the comments were of that caliber. It made me so sad to see such determined ignorance by so many people.

Reactions like that disgust me. I mean really, gays are humans. They have intelligence, morals, and ethics. I hate when people paint a picture of them as perverts or unrestrained monsters.

 

As a teenager myself, I see that a lot of straight teen guys always freak out over gays, because they seem to assume that the gay will make advances on them or rape them. As if they're lusty for every breathing thing or completely lacking self-control. *rolls eyes*

 

I guess a lot of people just think about what they see in the news, concerning boy molesters and such. I wish they would realize that bad people in the news are a minority of the population, just like with heterosexuals.

 

Sorry for jumping in. I don't usually post here, I'm a lurker because I'm nervous about being attacked. I feel strongly about these issues, and if I get involved I tend to get anxious and physically shake. *looks at quivering arms*

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As a teenager myself, I see that a lot of straight teen guys always freak out over gays, because they seem to assume that the gay will make advances on them or rape them. As if they're lusty for every breathing thing or completely lacking self-control. *rolls eyes*

That...

 

Is actually a fairly understandable way to look at it. Because, at least in America, we have a problem with rape culture. We have a problem with a society that basically excuses sexual inappropriateness on the part of men with the idea of "men will be men" and implies that males are expected to have a lack of ability to keep in in their pants, and that they're expected to make passes at everybody they find attractive.

 

So, the fear of gays that straight men seem to feel... Might be sexist, too--the fear of being treated like a woman, of receiving the same treatment they give to women--and in cases of being hit on and having unwanted advances made on them... The treatment they're expected to and excused for giving to women.

 

 

And while I can understand where some of the fear might come from... That just makes me even more sad...

Edited by KageSora

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I have to wonder if part of the problem is that gays were closeted for so long. There was a very interesting statement that I think was by Obama, that Will and Grace did more to advance Gay Rights than any pride parade. I think there is a lot of truth to that. Now that more people are out of the closet, people see it's just their every day neighbor, cousin, sibling, coworker. It's not anything fancy. Whereas before, who would people be most likely to know? The priest that was quietly molesting kids under cover of the church? The uncle that you made sure you were never alone with? 1 out of 5 people are abused, after all. And that's a very, very bad role model for people to have, to put it lightly. And if that is their only experience, I can see how that caused serious emotional issues.

 

/and totally agree with Kagesora

Edited by Vhale

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All of that, unfortunately, makes so much sense and I totally agree. It's sad that things like that happen and that's the way our culture works sometimes. sad.gif

 

(Sorry if I came off too strong or something, I didn't mean to say that there's no reason for people to have reactions like that. I just meant that I wish people could move past impressions/etc. and see the better side of things. *points to third paragraph* But I know that it's not that simple.)

 

Edited for saying 'things' too many times.

Edited by Dimar

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That...

 

Is actually a fairly understandable way to look at it. Because, at least in America, we have a problem with rape culture. We have a problem with a society that basically excuses sexual inappropriateness on the part of men with the idea of "men will be men" and implies that males are expected to have a lack of ability to keep in in their pants, and that they're expected to make passes at everybody they find attractive.

 

So, the fear of gays that straight men seem to feel... Might be sexist, too--the fear of being treated like a woman, of receiving the same treatment they give to women--and in cases of being hit on and having unwanted advances made on them... The treatment they're expected to and excused for giving to women.

 

 

And while I can understand where some of the fear might come from... That just makes me even more sad...

Win.

 

And, it reminds me of someone's sig on another forum I'm on, which I adore:

 

"Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women."

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I believe its fine. The more happy human beings the better. In fact, they actually create more peace between themselves than a male-female couple.

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Reminder:

~ Attack the topic not each other.~

 

I am sorry it took so long to answer the reports. We had a glitch, the reports were not being received.

Thank you for your patience.

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I'm guessing that Slushie is long gone, but I'm shocked that none of you pointed out that she was using a bad translation of Corinthians. Really, opening up the arsenokoitai issues usually gives them far more pause than anything else doesn.

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Win.

 

And, it reminds me of someone's sig on another forum I'm on, which I adore:

 

"Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women."

Hah! That quote is brilliant. (Clearly not true in all cases, but certainly accurate for some. And pretty cutting at that.)

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Win.

 

And, it reminds me of someone's sig on another forum I'm on, which I adore:

 

"Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women."

I'm making a Tee Shirt out of that saying. I'll post it here when I finish it. Later today.

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I'm guessing that Slushie is long gone, but I'm shocked that none of you pointed out that she was using a bad translation of Corinthians. Really, opening up the arsenokoitai issues usually gives them far more pause than anything else doesn.

I think we were too focused on the 'choice or not a choice' part of the debate at the time, so didn't occur to us (though if Noble was on at the time I'm sure she would have). I'm not well versed in the bible myself, so I wouldn't have anyway if I had remembered.

 

I would have brought up ShinyTomato's attempts to 'go straight', but things spiraled downhill way too quickly.

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The brains of gay people are physically differently structured. It's purely and completely physical, you can scan a person's brain and tell whether s/he is gay or not.

 

The media often reports it as if the differences are clear-cut. Look at the standard deviations from the data.

 

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/27/9403/T1.expansion.html

 

user posted image

 

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2008-06...traight-women/2

 

"But researchers say many questions remain about all this research. And there are as many differences within groups individuals of the same sexual orientation as between those of different orientation. Moreover, the new work involved adults, meaning there is no way to know with certainty when the structures and connections formed and why."

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I'm guessing that Slushie is long gone, but I'm shocked that none of you pointed out that she was using a bad translation of Corinthians.

I was going to point this out (as well as the fact that most Christians no longer follow the laws in Leviticus, so the term 'abomination' is generally non-applicable), but I decided to keep my head out of that discussion. rolleyes.gif

 

Something to lighten up the mood

 

I loled muchly. Some of the comments are priceless too.

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Alpha1 - OT but nice sig. Archers rule!

 

Wookieinmashoo - LOL that's hysterical! I love that.

 

Svataben: That is -awesome-. It's good to see more and more support for something that not just -should- happen, but needs to happen. No one is harming anything, they just want to be happy, and marrying their partner would make them happy. I think that's more than enough reason for it to be legal everywhere, period.

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Win.

 

And, it reminds me of someone's sig on another forum I'm on, which I adore:

 

"Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women."

That quote is actually what came to mind, as well as another story I saw somewhere where somebody else brought that up and the guys were actually admitting to not wanting to be treated like a woman.

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I myself believe in several things, I can not believe in just one religion, I believe that gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry each other, it should of been legalized years ago, if god loves everyone he should love all not a particular group or people. There is a fine line between God's eyes and your own opinion, in some cases or I should say in most cases every living being has their own opinions, for people who believe in just one religion is hindsighted from the rest of the world. I myself also do not believe in polygamists, I did experience with and it is not fun, it's hard to know if he /she actually loves you, you can catch so many infections as well, also you do not know if they are going to be with you or not. As for the statement about the hindsight part I am not saying anyone is stupid by all means it is not an offensive reference. But none-the-less I do believe that anyone in love weather male of male, female of female, or female of male should alw

ays be allowed to express their true feelings to the world, should be allowed to express what they believe to he right as long it does not break the laws, legalizing same sex marriages would not only promote equalization it will also promote happiness, kindness towards your fellow neighbor, respect, and safety for those who are gay or lesbian.

 

Off topic here the word gay actually means happy, in the bible's and old books they use the term gay a whole lot more then most people think. another side note a Greek good is gay I can not remember his name at this moment but I have read it while reading up about another Greek God named Jormungander. I'll get back to this part when I gather that book out of the dusty basement.

 

 

On topic. The part where I said about the fine line of god and your own opinion is when you say god loves all - that I would believe is God's thoughts, when you pause or needed to add a comma after those words then it becomes your own opinion. When anyone says this I am greatly noted that god speaks a lot less then your own opinion.

 

I will repeat I am not here to offend anyone or any kind this is purely my own opinion, if you take offence, I can not apologize for your getting made at yourself, not at me. Thank you for taking your time to read my thoughts greatly appreciated - fuzzils

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another side note a Greek good is gay I can not remember his name at this moment but I have read it while reading up about another Greek God named Jormungander.  I'll get back to this part when I gather that book out of the dusty basement.

It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of the Greek gods had homosexual partners, as many of them were rather promiscuous to begin with.

 

Also, I really have to correct this: Jormungandr was neither Greek nor a god. He is a creature, a son of Loki by the giantess Angrboda (along with his brother Fenrir and sister Hel), from Norse mythology. He was a serpent long enough to fully encircle Midgard (for that reason he is also known as Midgardsormr, World Serpent, or Midgard Serpent). ^^

 

On topic - I think gays and lesbians and whatever else should have the same marriage rights as everyone else. I fail to understand what the problem is with it. c.c It seems the primary argument is that it's somehow wrong or unnatural for us

but I can't help but notice that homosexuality is rather common in other animals - and we are animals, so...why is it not okay, exactly?

 

"Homophobia: the fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women."

 

Ahahaha I love this quote. This is pure win.

Edited by Infinis

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