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MURDERcomplexx

Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

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Uh, I want to put my 2 cents in here so here it goes. I'm Christian, so I believe this is wrong, and you guys are saying "Well, you shouldn't let your religious views get in the way of someone else's happiness." Well I just think you shouldn't do that, because what if we decide that gets in the way of our happiness, because we're religious? I'm not saying gay people are bad or anything, i'm just saying tone it down a little, because our religion strictly claims that gay marriage is bad. Again i'm not trying to be mean or nothing, but to us it is an abomination, so please don't be hating on people because they're Christian or Catholic or something that doesn't like gay marriage, thanks. unsure.gif

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins."

- attributed to Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

 

Simply put, your rights stop being a factor when you infringe on someone else's rights.

 

I'm not much of a debater, but I personally hate seeing people use religion as a "valid" way to discriminate against people. Everyone has views, has opinions. And that's fine. When you decide to suddenly enforce and push your views onto other people, that's wrong.

 

The LGBT is asking for what everyone else asks for: respect. Is that really so hard to give?

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I am sorry, but I am not forcing my views onto anyone. I am simply stating my opinion, and I see nothing wrong with that. However, you saying that I cannot state my beliefs, that is wrong.

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Uh, I want to put my 2 cents in here so here it goes. I'm Christian, so I believe this is wrong, and you guys are saying "Well, you shouldn't let your religious views get in the way of someone else's happiness." Well I just think you shouldn't do that, because what if we decide that gets in the way of our happiness, because we're religious? I'm not saying gay people are bad or anything, i'm just saying tone it down a little, because our religion strictly claims that gay marriage is bad. Again i'm not trying to be mean or nothing, but to us it is an abomination, so please don't be hating on people because they're Christian or Catholic or something that doesn't like gay marriage, thanks. unsure.gif

@brairtrainer, No offense was meant. I completely understand not all religious people are like that, I've just a had the ... 'fortunate' time of having most of my experiences be with them. smile.gif

 

to the quoted.

I'm not trying to hate on you, and I'm sure no one else is either smile.gif

But the argument you're using was also used in the past. We want equality, for homosexuals to be able to marry the same as heterosexuals with the same rights, etcetc. We're saying that laws, which should be blind to religion, should be put into affect to do this. Because in the eyes of the law, there is no sexuality. There are simply Human 1, Human 2, both of whom have the right to pursue happiness.

 

The argument you're then making is that the pursuit of this happiness would cause a loss of your own, due to religious beliefs that their happiness is an abomination. To which, all I can really say is.. It's out of your control. I don't mean this insultingly, I swear. But, if I want to marry my wife, how will this affect you? If you feel that it is an abomination, then if/when the law is passed that it is legal, simply choose not to partake. From the states that have already approved, each church is given the choice to either allow same-sex marriage in their buildings, or to not. If same-sex marriage repulses you so, and your church allows it in the building, go to a new church. If it does not, then it's a win situation for you.

 

I apologize if I'm coming off strongly, I do not intend to upset you or anyone else smile.gif. But simply put, why should same-sex couples be denied the same rights as heterosexual couples under the law? I understand each religion can decide what to do, but when it comes to the law, which sees Human1 & 2 being joined together in marriage, why does gender suddenly have a role?

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Never said you couldn't state your beliefs. It's some of the assumptions you made in your previous post that prompted my rebuttal.

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Uh, I want to put my 2 cents in here so here it goes. I'm Christian, so I believe this is wrong, and you guys are saying "Well, you shouldn't let your religious views get in the way of someone else's happiness." Well I just think you shouldn't do that, because what if we decide that gets in the way of our happiness, because we're religious? I'm not saying gay people are bad or anything, i'm just saying tone it down a little, because our religion strictly claims that gay marriage is bad. Again i'm not trying to be mean or nothing, but to us it is an abomination, so please don't be hating on people because they're Christian or Catholic or something that doesn't like gay marriage, thanks. unsure.gif

The problem is that for those who disagree with gay rights there is no tangible effect if gay people are allowed to marry. It doesn't affect your marriage, or affect you in any way that I can see other than you have to see something you disagree with from time to time.

 

On the flip side, denying gay rights causes actual, tangible problems for gay people. Same sex couples are denied more than 1,100 rights because they're not legally allowed to marry, including tax benefits, death benefits, healthcare, inheritence, and hundreds and hundreds of others. And that's just the rights denied to them through one institution (marriage).

 

It's not really about your happiness vs. their happiness, but even if it were I'd say that same-sex partners are suffering a great deal more than you are under the current laws.

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I am sorry, but I am not forcing my views onto anyone. I am simply stating my opinion, and I see nothing wrong with that. However, you saying that I cannot state my beliefs, that is wrong.

I'm not saying you can't state your beliefs. You can shout to the heavens that being gay is an abomination, for all I care. Words only have as much power as you give them, after all.

 

When you start passing laws saying they can't marry, or doing hate crimes because of your views. That, that's where I have a problem.

 

EDIT: Btw, I'm really not trying to attack you, or saying you do hate crimes. laugh.gif This is just an issue I feel strongly about, as my mom is against gay marriage. We sometimes get into strong arguments about it.

Edited by Wandering Mew

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To riverwillows, this may be, but you implied that I should not be stating my opinions here.

To Wandering4Ever, thank you, but you may not understand, that my religion states that this is wrong, and should not be done. And I have viewed that some people have been a bit rude to some of the people like me. I thank you for using sensitivity with your beliefs. It is something I envy, as you see I am not very good at such behavior. smile.gif

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I'm just saying 'our' considering there's other people with my beliefs here. And it somewhat is due to the fact you are saying our religious beliefs get in the way of people's happiness. And i'm just stating I think it is wrong to pursue in such acts. And it states in the Bible, that homosexuality is wrong. I am not saying that you are just wrong, i'm stating that it is slightly inaccurate.

"<snippet of unkindness>"

The Bible does not carry the same importance to non-Christians as it does to you. To non-Christians it is just a book, so using that as a reference for homosexuality being wrong is illogical.

 

Personally I don't believe religion even belongs in the same topic as Gay Rights.

Edited by HollyTheColliegirl

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Actually, it DOES affect the other side of the community, because then they will expect children, and it can completely throw of the balance of nature, with something I like to call 'test-tube babies'. And the benefits, nobody really gets those anymore with Obama in office. Thanks.

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To riverwillows, this may be, but you implied that I should not be stating my opinions here.

To Wandering4Ever, thank you, but you may not understand, that my religion states that this is wrong, and should not be done. And I have viewed that some people have been a bit rude to some of the people like me. I thank you for using sensitivity with your beliefs. It is something I envy, as you see I am not very good at such behavior. smile.gif

No, I didn't. Re read the posts.

 

What everyone is saying, is that having these views against gays and gay marriage is not wrong. You can believe anything you want, judge who you want. But outside of your religion, you do NOT have the right to dictate how others may live. Within your religion, enact all the religious laws you want. But outside, in the secular world, you don't have that right.

 

Now, if you can bring concrete secular proof, that gay marriage is harmful, other than what your religion says, but concrete secular proof, then ok, you'd have a point. But to use your religious beliefs to try to dictate something in the secular world, nope.

Edited by Riverwillows

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It does belong in the same category actually, since the marriage of two homosexual individuals is considered what is an abomination. And you may think it is a book, but I hope you will realize it is much more. Bless you.

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I do apologize if you think I am 'dictating', but I am merely stating what I think. I am nobody special, I do not have the right to dictate you, but it is my responsibility as a Christian to try to help you.

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Actually, it DOES affect the other side of the community, because then they will expect children, and it can completely throw of the balance of nature, with something I like to call 'test-tube babies'. And the benefits, nobody really gets those anymore with Obama in office. Thanks.

Yes, we will expect children. However, obviously not as radically as the test-tube children right off the bat (another discussion for another thread).

To the last comment, careful. Please. Don't start with political slurs. It's one of the few reasons I like this thread is politics don't get involved heavily.

 

That being stated. What would be wrong with two loving people adopting a child? It is better then the child being left in an orphanage, or an abusive home, or adopted by a less-then-stellar straight parent, is it not?

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I once again apologize if my way of speaking offends you, but it is sadly the truth. Nobody really has health care or any type of benefits. Coming from experience. My father has had 3 back surgeries, and he needs another, but he cannot get it due to significant problems with insurance. The same with my mother, she has a ripped rotator cuff in her shoulder, and can get no assistance. As for the children, it can confuse them that two male or female homosexuals can create a child without third party interference.

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There is no proof, NONE ANYWHERE, yet, that children of gay couples suffer from all the things people say they will : physical abuse, mental abuse, sexual abuse.....none.

 

Every person and child I know of and those I've read about, are happy, well-adjusted people, who were never abused, and say they wouldn't have changed their parents for the world. And they are not confused, and many are heterosexuals.

 

You just can't say all that about the other side. You can't. People may want to believe all that about gays and having kids, but the facts just don't hold up the belief.

Edited by Riverwillows

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There is NO doubt in my mind that they would in ANY way harm a child, I am more than confident they would take care of the child, what worries me is the mental state of the child.

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I once again apologize if my way of speaking offends you, but it is sadly the truth. Nobody really has health care or any type of benefits. Coming from experience. My father has had 3 back surgeries, and he needs another, but he cannot get it due to significant problems with insurance. The same with my mother, she has a ripped rotator cuff in her shoulder, and can get no assistance. As for the children, it can confuse them that two male or female homosexuals can create a child without third party interference.

I'm sorry, but the benefits I'm talking about that are denied to same-sex partners are about a lot more than just access to affordable health care.

 

http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/an-over...married-couples

http://www.freedomtomarry.org/pages/from-w...by-evan-wolfson

http://randyreport.blogspot.com/2011/07/sh...o-same-sex.html

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There is NO doubt in my mind that they would in ANY way harm a child, I am more than confident they would take care of the child, what worries me is the mental state of the child.

There has been no proof that anything happens to the child mentally, other than they are accepting of the fact that having two mothers or two fathers is just the same as having a mother and father.

 

Honestly, if you want to make the arguments about parenting, what about the child of a single parent? Do you believe they will also have ill effects because they grew up with only a mother or only a father?

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There is NO doubt in my mind that they would in ANY way harm a child, I am more than confident they would take care of the child, what worries me is the mental state of the child.

Not to seem mean, but every child is mentally tortured in some way. I grew up in a perfectly normal household. Mother, father, three older siblings and one younger one. I was bullied so much in school that I now have crippling social anxiety.

 

No one has a "normal" childhood, because everyone has different families, different experiences, and different trials to overcome. Children of gay parents will be no more screwed up than other children.

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I completely agree that having just one single parent is horrible, but for example, if two mothers were to adopt a little boy, who would play baseball with him, or help him ahem, in the teen years. Or two fathers to adopt a little girl, what if she got her period, and didn't have an experienced mother to help her get a pad in, or a tampon? Or the thing of bullying. They could be picked on for having two mommies, or two daddies. I'm not saying they wouldn't be good parents, they would probably be loving, but they could get depression if they are bullied, or fall ill if they do not have proper parenting.

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There is NO doubt in my mind that they would in ANY way harm a child, I am more than confident they would take care of the child, what worries me is the mental state of the child.

The sexuality of the parents cannot affect that of an adopted child. Sexuality is not a learned behavior: you are born that way.

Edited by Shienvien

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There is no evidence of a 'gay gene'. It is a choice of who you are attracted to. And it can affect the child in many ways, if you would take a gander at my previous post.

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I was merely giving you an example. No need to get excited about sources.

I wasn't really getting excited about sources. I'm just too lazy to try and sum up the 1138 rights same-sex couples are denied through marriage.

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