Marriage Equality and Other MOGAI/Queer Rights

[loudwhitenoise]

Hey, I'm a nerd. I was just trying to extend something beyond black and white, and nonexistant space aliens are a decent example. absurdity notwithstanding. I just feel like directing people to tvtropes 'blue and orange morality' article all the time - Things may not always be the way we think of them. Nonexistant space aliens are a decent metaphor for 'what if's.

As for the comic, I believe it is meant be a joke. Do many people really think like that, I doubt it.

 

I wasn't actually using it as an argument against anything, that was a new paragraph; sorry if that wasn't clear. It was an insincere comment but I forgot about how such subtleties arent conveyed on the internet (I guess that's how the elkor from mass effect feel all the time?). -Besides, that would be a lame-kipz arguement anyway, as you pointed out.

 

New paragraph clarification point---This is a random comment not targeted at anything said in this topic---

My ideology is this - (dont take offense) but I cbf if anybody's opinions conflict with mine as long as they don't push them on me. Er, it there a politer way of saying that? It doesnt sound nice, but I mean is I don't pick fights. I do my best to phrase with politeness and generic terminology.

 

last comment: I ramble a lot. My thoughts go everywhere. I may not make sense all the time. Taking what I say with a grain of salt may be a decent option. (Actually I think taking whatever anyone anywhere says with a grain of salt is a good option )

[S9429183F]

I just found this amazingly adorable ad for marriage equality in the UK, and wanted to share with people here.

 

Nice video, totally promotes gay marriages.

[Marrionetta]

My sister always rips those tabs and then I just push the two top pieces down into each other.

I stab holes in the sides.

 

I'm not even sure why gay marriage is a debate.

 

Most people can agree they don't want other folk mucking about in their business and creating laws to micro manage their personal lives. At the very least, vote in favor of gay marriage doesn't mean you want to get gay-married, it just means you think it's silly that the state could feasibly tell you what consenting adults you can and what consenting adults you can't marry. I think the best way to express a distaste for 'the homosexual lifestyle' is simply to not engage in it. If you disagree with being gay, don't be gay. It's that easy. It's not your place to inflict your preferences on others. Mandating heterosexuality is just as uncomfortable as mandating homosexuality would be.

 

Yikes.

[Princess Artemis]

At least in my view and understanding, a vote for gay marriage is a vote for more state mucking about and micro-managing peoples lives. As I've said before, I'd rather the state get out of it entirely, which is why I, at least, am not exactly for 'gay marriage'. I cannot be for one kind of state-mucking-around marriage and against every other kind. Voting to tell the state what kind of adults can and cannot marry is...exactly what you just said the state shouldn't be able to do. So, if you believe the state ought not interfere, don't vote to give it more leverage to interfere, support less interference.

 

As far as people being gay and wanting to marry, have at it.

 

I do believe, however, that a number of gay people who disagree with being gay have not, in fact, found it "that easy" to cease being gay.

[DeathCry]

I'm not even sure why gay marriage is a debate.

 

Most people can agree they don't want other folk mucking about in their business and creating laws to micro manage their personal lives. At the very least, vote in favor of gay marriage doesn't mean you want to get gay-married, it just means you think it's silly that the state could feasibly tell you what consenting adults you can and what consenting adults you can't marry. I think the best way to express a distaste for 'the homosexual lifestyle' is simply to not engage in it. If you disagree with being gay, don't be gay. It's that easy. It's not your place to inflict your preferences on others. Mandating heterosexuality is just as uncomfortable as mandating homosexuality would be.

 

Yikes.

This ^

 

~~

If two consenting adults want to legally proclaim their love for one another, why should any outside party, who is not even affected by them, be able to prevent this?

 

This is more of keeping second class citizens in their place. "I have these rights, but because of such and such reasons, you don't deserve these rights. Who knows what other immoral actions will then be allowed."

 

It's absolutely fine to disagree with "gay" marriage, but it shouldn't give someone a right or ability to stop other people from being happy. Hell, I don't even like seeing straight couples together sometimes.

 

~~

I have an extreme dislike of such foolishly controversial topics.

[Princess Artemis]

On the other hand re: my stance to vote for something, North Carolina now has Amendment One that would add law to forbid gay marriage and that is just stupid and against everything I stand for, personally, as a libertarian who wants the state to stop meddling with people. Any North Carolinians who can vote, go vote against that thing and do it now.

[Mousia]

I am for gay/lesbian marriage because it's not fair to segregate them from people that are 'straight'. I am proud to say that even though people call me gay even when I'm not because I realize that everyone would be upset if a bunch of gay people controlled the world and 'straight' marriage was outlawed, so why cant we let gays and lesbians love each other, because it's not their fault who they love (ok, maybe a little but seriously, have a heart!). Imagine what they are going through...you would hats that and so would I. The end....

 

And I'm not hating on people who believe that gays and lesbians are...incorrect, I'm just stating my opinion.

 

Thank you and goodbye

[ylangylang]

 

A truly sad story about those whose relationships aren't recognized.

[Princess Artemis]

North Carolinians and anyone who knows a North Carolinian with a vote, now would be a good day to vote down Amendment One. It bans civil unions too, which have been legal in NC for decades. So, y'know, go stop the dingbats from actively ruining lives there if'n you can.

[Red Dragonette]

I'm a North Carolinian and my mom & I voted against the amendment today. But unfortunately, my homophobic dad had to vote for it. I tried convincing him not to as it hurts all families and women in the process as well, but he just stubbornly refuse to listen because he thinks the amendment only affects gay marriage. I just hope my vote prevails over his. You guys wish me luck and hope that my vote made a difference, alright?

[satyr76]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/north-c...-011158194.html

 

:c

[gravity404]

On the other hand re: my stance to vote for something, North Carolina now has Amendment One that would add law to forbid gay marriage and that is just stupid and against everything I stand for, personally, as a libertarian who wants the state to stop meddling with people. Any North Carolinians who can vote, go vote against that thing and do it now.

We're losing D:

Apparently over 60% of my state is full of homophobic jerks. I'm too young to vote but I was out protesting this past weekend with tons of my friends and my parents went canvassing too. All of our friends and family that were overage voted against it, but apparently not everyone feels the same way we do. T.T The light in all of this is that there is a tiny bit of hope that the amendment will be declared unconstitutional. And even if it isn't, the younger generation, such as myself, will be able to vote in a few years and it might make a huge difference. Eventually we'll get the last laugh!

[philpot123]

We're losing D:

Apparently over 60% of my state is full of homophobic jerks. I'm too young to vote but I was out protesting this past weekend with tons of my friends and my parents went canvassing too. All of our friends and family that were overage voted against it, but apparently not everyone feels the same way we do. T.T The light in all of this is that there is a tiny bit of hope that the amendment will be declared unconstitutional. And even if it isn't, the younger generation, such as myself, will be able to vote in a few years and it might make a huge difference. Eventually we'll get the last laugh!

First, having firm convictions about something does not make me a homophobic jerk. Homophobia implies a hatred, fear, or disdain for homosexuals. Disagreeing with their lifestyle =/= hatred. So dropping that silly attack would be beneficial for everyone.

 

 

Second, there's really no way the NC amendment could be declared unconstitutional. That would be blatantly violating the express powers clause and the tenth amendment. It's not the national government's job to interfere with that.

[7Deadly$ins]

Personally I find it appalling. It's not like civil unions are even on the level of marriage, either. It's taking away what little they can even have. I have yet to hear one good reason to not allow gay marriage, ever. I will be extremely surprised if I ever do.

[Walker]

Question... for the people there already in civil unions... do their unions simply not exist anymore or are they safe since they joined together BEFORE the ban went into effect?

Edited May 9, 2012 by Walker

[Layn]

First, having firm convictions about something does not make me a homophobic jerk. Homophobia implies a hatred, fear, or disdain for homosexuals. Disagreeing with their lifestyle =/= hatred. So dropping that silly attack would be beneficial for everyone.

 

 

Second, there's really no way the NC amendment could be declared unconstitutional. That would be blatantly violating the express powers clause and the tenth amendment. It's not the national government's job to interfere with that.

If it's denying rights that are protected by national government, then yes, it can be declared unconstitutional.

[LascielsShadow]

Question... for the people there already in civil unions... do their unions simply not exist anymore or are they safe since they joined together BEFORE the ban went into effect?

No, they don't exist anymore, essentially. They'll no longer be recognised.

 

I get a little more ashamed of my country every time something like this happens. (Which is why I'm clinging to the fact that my state passed a marriage equality act and that there is a fighting chance it will hold up if it ends up on the ballot in Nov. It's one of the only things that makes me feel less like hurting people for their stupidity.)

 

 

 

ETA: To make this even better, I just found this:

http://jezebel.com/5907427/political-wife-...-caucasian-race

 

and this: http://politics.gather.com/viewArticle.act...281474981305842

 

So, basically, it's "o noes, we must stop teh gheyz from marrying because WHITE PEOPLE." Because...what, banning gay marriage will suddenly cause all of teh homosekshuals to run out and breed (uh, if they're white, of course)? Do....do they need this "homosexuality" thing explained to them or something? 'Cos, like, I'm not entirely sure all of them (especially this woman) quite grasp the concept. also: not all married white couples have teh baybeez, which may be somewhat problematic for the whole "We must breed moar white peoplez" thing.

Edited May 9, 2012 by LascielsShadow

[OMGitsKairi]

Disagreeing with their lifestyle =/= hatred.

Just poking my head in here to say I really take exception to your use of the word "lifestyle."

 

The word "lifestyle" describes something that is a result of a conscious decision.

[KageSora]

Just poking my head in here to say I really take exception to your use of the word "lifestyle." 

 

The word "lifestyle" describes something that is a result of a conscious decision.

Well, many people--especially more conservative religious people I've noticed--tend to think gay IS a choice, unfortunately. They think people just "choose" to be homosexual, that they "choose" to put themselves out there for bullying and that they "choose" to make themselves targets of hatred, that they "choose" to become second-class citizens in a world ruled by heterosexuals who deny them the basic rights they deserve by virtue of being human.

 

Right, like they "chose" to be heterosexual themselves. >_>

 

 

(not saying phil necessarily thinks that way--I've just seen far too many people who seriously argue that it's a choice.)

 

 

But I suppose they say they didn't "choose" to be heterosexual but you can "choose" to be homosexual because heterosexual is the "default" or something. '

Edited May 9, 2012 by KageSora

[OMGitsKairi]

Well, many people--especially more conservative religious people I've noticed--tend to think gay IS a choice, unfortunately.  They think people just "choose" to be homosexual, that they "choose" to put themselves out there for bullying and that they "choose" to make themselves targets of hatred, that they "choose" to become second-class citizens in a world ruled by heterosexuals who deny them the basic rights they deserve by virtue of being human.

 

Right, like they "chose" to be heterosexual themselves.  >_>

 

 

(not saying phil necessarily thinks that way--I've just seen far too many people who seriously argue that it's a choice.)

 

 

But I suppose they say they didn't "choose" to be heterosexual but you can "choose" to be homosexual because heterosexual is the "default" or something.  '

Exactly. I don't see why anyone, if they had a choice, WOULD decide to subject themselves

to those things.

 

 

Something I legitimately don't understand, however, is why some people believe it is their

heterosexual privilege to have the right to dictate with whom a percentage of their fellow

citizens [who we can assume are consenting adults] are permitted to enter into [what is

essentially] a legal contract that has nothing to do with them whatsoever.

[Tehya Faye]

Just poking my head in here to say I really take exception to your use of the word "lifestyle." 

 

The word "lifestyle" describes something that is a result of a conscious decision.

One could argue that choosing to date is a lifestyle, and thus can be described as homosexual or heterosexual. /2 cents

 

That aside, I'm very disappointed to hear about that amendment passing in NC. Especially since a significant number of the voters failed to read the full text of it, and instead just assumed that it was about gay marriage exclusively. Now that is just ridiculous.

[Vhale]

Really disappointed to see this as well. And I'd like to point out, not every religion or even Christian sect agrees on whether this is a good law or not. So, it's one vocal sect of a religion imposing their will on everyone else. What happened to everyone else's religious freedom? This is why people make remarks about Christian Sharia law. That and the anti-birth control, reproductive rights, equal pay rights, minimum wage rights the right wing crusade is on.

 

And honestly, a lot of this is fall back from Obama being black. I live in the deep south, my parents are from the country. Some of their old friends were Democrats all their lives. After Obama got elected, hard core republican with lots of N words when not in polite company. The intense hatred is sickening.

 

Make sure you register to vote. Or more of this will be coming to a state near you.

[Kestra15]

I thought this was the best thread for this:

 

[Red Dragonette]

This is hilarious! I like to show this to bigoted christians and see their reactions. Show them how messed up the bible is and that it's not 100% morally right.

 

EDIT: Also, look at what I found just now; a petition to repeal NC Amendment 1. Sign if you guys want to save North Carolina http://www.change.org/petitions/1-million-...nst-amendment-1

Edited May 9, 2012 by Red Dragonette

[philpot123]

If it's denying rights that are protected by national government, then yes, it can be declared unconstitutional.

What rights protected by the national government? Marriage? Because first let me say I don't think marriage should a legal entity at all. Second, homosexuals have exactly the same rights as anyone else. They can marry anyone they choose, heterosexually, as is the definition of marriage under the DOMA. Not only that, but by recognizing homosexual unions as marriages, the state violates the free exercise clause of the first amendment by forcing those with religious convictions about the sinfulness of homosexual actions to recognize those marriages as legitimate and to provide them legal benefits. "Unconstitutional" means it violates the constitution, and I would ask you to show me which part of the constitution it violates.

 

One could argue that choosing to date is a lifestyle, and thus can be described as homosexual or heterosexual. /2 cents

 

Agreed. I would use the term heterosexual lifestyle to refer to my own. I'm not implying anything about choice or lack thereof by using that term.

 

And honestly, a lot of this is fall back from Obama being black. I live in the deep south, my parents are from the country. Some of their old friends were Democrats all their lives. After Obama got elected, hard core republican with lots of N words when not in polite company. The intense hatred is sickening.

 

The race card is getting old. I and every single other person in my southern state who does not support Obama is adamantly against his policies, not his race. It seems one can't say anything negative about the things Obama is doing without being labeled a racist. Yes, I have a distinct problem with the fact that he's a president that is hostile towards Christianity and Judaism. America's Most Biblically Hostile US President

 

This is hilarious! I like to show this to bigoted christians and see their reactions. Show them how messed up the bible is and that it's not 100% morally right.

 

I would appreciate not being labeled a bigot if you can restrain yourself. If you simply must throw around such ridiculous labels, I can only assume you're bigoted against Christians. There are a lot of us.

 

In regards to that humorous picture, if you're one of those Christians who finds the OT "outdated" and "useless," there are NT prohibitions on homosexuality. So citing all those laws would be useless talking to one of them. To be clear, I'm not one of those. Second, the punishment for many of those things listed (sideburns, shellfish) was, IIRC, ceremonial uncleanliness. Yes, the punishment for things like murder, adultery, kidnapping, and homosexuality was death. Assuming, as Christians do, that the Bible is the inspired word of God, it would in fact be YOU who is not 100% morally right.