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The. Site. And there are plenty of people above my post who's posted stuff that are frankly disgusting to me.

I understand, but I try to keep an open mind myself, smile.gif

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I understand, but I try to keep an open mind myself, smile.gif

What's having an open mind have to do with looking at articles that frankly are patronizing to women, doesn't have an exact science, having no statistical evidence, and tries to pull at my heartstrings by emotionally bullying me?

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What's having an open mind have to do with looking at articles that frankly are patronizing to women, doesn't have an exact science, having no statistical evidence, and tries to pull at my heartstrings by emotionally bullying me?

AND suggest that the victims of incest should happily bear the children of their abusers?

 

Sick, sad, horrific stuff. mad.gif

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What's having an open mind have to do with looking at articles that frankly are patronizing to women, doesn't have an exact science, having no statistical evidence, and tries to pull at my heartstrings by emotionally bullying me?

This. If you want to bullied into this stupidity, then enjoy. 8p.

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Here's where I got my stuff from- I tried to quote it as in context as possible though you may have a different understanding smile.gif

 

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/women/crisis-pregnancy/

To go with that, here are some other links:

 

Pregnancy by incest and the "victims should bear their rapist's child" bit and bonus "Aborting a fetus conceived by incest is child abuse!":

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/abortion-facts/i...ape-and-incest/

 

Lie about the morning after pill:

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/abortion-facts/m...ing-after-pill/

(preventing implantation =/= abortion. preventing implantation of a fertilised egg=not allowing pregnancy in the first place.)

 

Lie about abortion and breast cancer:

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/abortion-effects.../breast-cancer/

 

Nonsense about "population control" and bemoaning of the fact that people are daring to not have children, and complaining about the spread of contraception and sterilisation:

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/issues/populatio...trol/the-cause/

 

 

I am bloody well not going to have an "open mind" about people who think that, had the person who abused me gone as far as rape, eight-year-old me should have been made to bear a child if I'd gotten pregnant. It's unfathomable to me that anyone could even entertain the idea that forcing a child to give birth would be a good idea, or that an abortion in those cases is anything but a medically and psychologically beneficial thing.

Edited by LascielsShadow

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Here's where I got my stuff from- I tried to quote it as in context as possible though you may have a different understanding smile.gif

 

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/women/crisis-pregnancy/

Thank you for posting this.

 

I feel a lot of people will only quote certains things from a link, and it takes it out of its entirety.

 

I just took this from your link below, and yes if it stands alone it does look bad. This is what I keep seeing happening. But if you read all of it, it can make sense most of the time. Not that I always agree with everything in an article.

 

ABORTION IS NO SOLUTION

 

An abortion is not the solution to any of these scenarios. It will most likely create problems in relationships with your baby's father and with your parents. The shared guilt will create a wall between you and those you love. There are also physical and psychological effects as a result of having an abortion.

 

 

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Thank you for posting this.

 

I feel a lot of people will only quote certains things from a link, and it takes it out of its entirety.

 

I just took this from your link below, and yes if it stands alone it does look bad. This is what I keep seeing happening. But if you read all of it, it can make sense most of the time. Not that I always agree with everything in an article.

 

ABORTION IS NO SOLUTION

 

An abortion is not the solution to any of these scenarios. It will most likely create problems in relationships with your baby's father and with your parents. The shared guilt will create a wall between you and those you love. There are also physical and psychological effects as a result of having an abortion.

Seeing it in context doesn't make it any better. I fail to see how any of the things that have been quoted are better in context. It's the sentiments themselves that are the problem.

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ABORTION IS NO SOLUTION

 

An abortion is not the solution to any of these scenarios. It will most likely create problems in relationships with your baby's father and with your parents. The shared guilt will create a wall between you and those you love. There are also physical and psychological effects as a result of having an abortion.

Please stop generalizing.

 

It was a solution -- and the best one, under the circumstances -- for me when I got pregnant due to contraceptive failure in my early twenties. The baby's father was in complete agreement with me, and my mother also understood that bearing a child at that point would have ruined my life (in part due to the fact that I have a pregnancy phobia that would have led me to commit suicide rather than bring the child to term, but also because it would have destroyed any possibility of me following my chosen career).

 

And I can say with confidence that apart from a week or so's physical recuperation I suffered neither physical nor psychological aftereffects.

 

There are plenty of other women who will tell you much the same story, if you bothered to read sites such as I'm Not Sorry. The ideas you're pushing -- that abortion is NEVER a solution and that there are ALWAYS horrible consequences -- simply don't stand up in the face of reality. For some women, keeping the unexpected child is the best course of action. For others, aborting it is the best course of action. The point is that women must have CHOICE, in my opinion.

 

(And by the way, I will NEVER agree that forcing a woman to keep a child created by incest is either ethically or psychologically sound. But that might be my own bias, since I suffered sexual abuse at the hands of my own father.)

Edited by prairiecrow

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Not all shoes fit one size.

 

Same thing goes with abortion as well. You have some people that agree with abortion no matter what the reason, and others do not agree with abortion on all reasons.

 

If you can not keep an open mind on the subject to the pro's and con's, why even be in the discussion!!!

 

If I and others are going to respect you, any of you need to respect the rest of us to. We all need to respect how others feel on subjects that we discuss, or why discuss?

 

I have a high tolerance for pain, some of you do not. I am sure our opinions would be very different from each other, smile.gif

 

Just like if I was raped, I do not want an abortion and I would keep my child born of that rape. I can handle being raped. This just happened to be one monster and not all men are monsters is how I see it. I do not expect any of you to feel the way I do on this matter. Would I judge you or call you a whimp because you could not deal with it, certainly not. I would totally undertstand if you wanted an abortion and had a nervous break down.

 

If both of my adult sons were killed in an accident together, you bet I would wish I was dead to, but I will grieve and start living again in the end. This may seem cold to some of you, but this is life, and if you can not handle life, on lifes terms, you go down to as well, and bring others around you down to.

 

I myself have learned that life throws curves balls and I deal with it, it is that simple to me.

 

Same goes for, "It's the sentiments themselves that are the problem". How something effects me , may not effect you the same. We are all different, and can handle some things better than others.

 

 

SENTIMENT

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentiment

 

1: an attitude or opinion [count] ▪ His criticism of the court's decision expresses a sentiment that is shared by many people.▪ an expression of antiwar sentiments▪ a noble sentiment▪ “The lecture was interesting, but it was much too long.” “My sentiments exactly!” [=I agree with you completely] [noncount] ▪ A good politician understands public sentiment. [=understands the opinions held by many or most people] ... I MYSELF WILL ADD, NOT ALL THOUGH.

 

2 [noncount] : feelings of love, sympathy, kindness, etc.

▪ She likes warmth and sentiment in a movie.▪ You have to be tough to succeed in the business world. There's no room for sentiment.

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Please stop generalizing.

 

It was a solution -- and the best one, under the circumstances -- for me when I got pregnant due to contraceptive failure in my early twenties. The baby's father was in complete agreement with me, and my mother also understood that bearing a child at that point would have ruined my life (in part due to the fact that I have a pregnancy phobia that would have led me to commit suicide rather than bring the child to term, but also because it would have destroyed any possibility of me following my chosen career).

 

And I can say with confidence that apart from a week or so's physical recuperation I suffered neither physical nor psychological aftereffects.

 

There are plenty of other women who will tell you much the same story, if you bothered to read sites such as I'm Not Sorry. The ideas you're pushing -- that abortion is NEVER a solution and that there are ALWAYS horrible consequences -- simply don't stand up in the face of reality. For some women, keeping the unexpected child is the best course of action. For others, aborting it is the best course of action. The point is that women must have CHOICE, in my opinion.

 

(And by the way, I will NEVER agree that forcing a woman to keep a child created by incest is either ethically or psychologically sound. But that might be my own bias, since I suffered sexual abuse at the hands of my own father.)

QUOTE (~Kat~ @ Aug 18 2012, 07:47 PM)

 

ABORTION IS NO SOLUTION

 

An abortion is not the solution to any of these scenarios. It will most likely create problems in relationships with your baby's father and with your parents. The shared guilt will create a wall between you and those you love. There are also physical and psychological effects as a result of having an abortion. QUOTE

 

 

I did not generalize, If you can go back and read a little higher. I was quoting what was in one of the links that was put on I could not find. That QUOTE above standing by itself, I TOTALLY disagree with myself.

 

I have no problem you having an abortion at all what you posted. I am glad that no one that mattered to you, tried to put you on a guilt trip. I am glad that you stayed healthy over it all and could pursue your chosen career, smile.gif

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I'm not going to have an open mind with a side that lies to me. Sorry.

 

I myself have learned that life throws curves balls and I deal with it, it is that simple to me.

 

Same goes for, "It's the sentiments themselves that are the problem". How something effects me , may not effect you the same. We are all different, and can handle some things better than others.

 

Well, then that's good for you. The thing is, not everyone can deal with that. For example, the site is problematic in my opinion because not every woman is going to be pleased at the aspect of carrying their rapist's baby to term. I would make a generalization here, if I may, and say that most women would be upset at such a prospect. The thing is, the site makes it sound as if they can. That's the part I'm having problems with.

 

About the incest part-girls who are as young as 9 or 10 shouldn't be having children anyway, their body is not fully developed for that, which leads to further complications and mass physical/psychological trauma for the girl. And I refuse to accept the site's premise that "the baby must be carried to term so we can expose the rapist". No, it doesn't work that way. There are multiple ways for the girl to identify her perpetrator without carrying the baby to term. Even if she does carry the baby to term, the family, for their own reasons, may stop the girl's offspring from getting a paternity check.

 

This just happened to be one monster and not all men are monsters is how I see it.

I'm sorry, but you're coming off as a bit callous here. I was almost kidnapped when I was 5 by a middle aged man who smelled of cigarettes and alcohol. I have problems now, almost 20 years later, with middle aged men, especially those who smell like cigarettes or alcohol. I'm sure that you view yourself as strong enough. The thing is, most people don't. And even if they could, there should always be a choice out there for people who aren't able to cope with that.

 

I'm not saying that everyone who has been raped should abort. I'm just saying that there should be a choice for the people who do. The site you linked is against that.

Edited by ylangylang

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Was there a point to defining something whose meaning I am already aware of? To me, it is the OPINION that it is somehow good or reasonable or otherwise not hideously detrimental TO A CHILD to bear the child of her rapist (especially if that rapist was a family member) which is a problem. It's a horribly sick thought. I absolutely cannot think otherwise, and I am not going to apologise for that.

 

I will not have respect for anyone who thinks that a child should be made to suffer through a pregnancy, especially one that resulted from their victimisation by an adult they were meant to be able to trust. I remember quite well what it was like to *be* one of those children, though in my case it never went quite that far, so I find myself unable to find a "pro" in forcing a little girl to bear a child. Please, explain to me why I should.

Edited by LascielsShadow

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I'm not going to have an open mind with a side that lies to me. Sorry.

"Everybody lies."

 

All sides lie. You have to dig around those lies and find the truths.

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"Everybody lies."

 

All sides lie. You have to dig around those lies and find the truths.

I know. But that side had blatant, flat-out lies that had a very misconstrued view of how humans should behave, so that I couldn't support that.

 

Thing about "abortion clinics" though, in our country we just go to an OBGYN to get one, and I remember one of my friends who had serious problems with her ovaries being pummeled (with words) by an anti-abortion person who also believed in some weird stuff until she got angry and said that she was going in there because her ovaries were not functioning correctly. It's so annoying when everyone assumes that you're going in there for abortion if you're young and unmarried looking.

 

Question for other people-do "abortion clinics" in the U.S run separately with OBGYNs? Or are they in the same place? Or does that vary from state to state?

Edited by ylangylang

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I'm not going to have an open mind with a side that lies to me. Sorry.

 

 

 

Well, then that's good for you. The thing is, not everyone can deal with that. For example, the site is problematic in my opinion because not every woman is going to be pleased at the aspect of carrying their rapist's baby to term. I would make a generalization here, if I may, and say that most women would be upset at such a prospect. The thing is, the site makes it sound as if they can. That's the part I'm having problems with.

 

About the incest part-girls who are as young as 9 or 10 shouldn't be having children anyway, their body is not fully developed for that, which leads to further complications and mass physical/psychological trauma for the girl. And I refuse to accept the site's premise that "the baby must be carried to term so we can expose the rapist". No, it doesn't work that way. There are multiple ways for the girl to identify her perpetrator without carrying the baby to term. Even if she does carry the baby to term, the family, for their own reasons, may stop the girl's offspring from getting a paternity check.

 

 

I'm sorry, but you're coming off as a bit callous here. I was almost kidnapped when I was 5 by a middle aged man who smelled of cigarettes and alcohol. I have problems now, almost 20 years later, with middle aged men, especially those who smell like cigarettes or alcohol. I'm sure that you view yourself as strong enough. The thing is, most people don't. And even if they could, there should always be a choice out there for people who aren't able to cope with that.

 

I'm not saying that everyone who has been raped should abort. I'm just saying that there should be a choice for the people who do. The site you linked is against that.

When it comes to children being raped or incest, does not matter, they should not have to carry a child to term to expose the rapist. This is wrong.

 

I am not being callous, when I say, "This just happened to be one monster and not all men are monsters is how I see it". I am talking about me being an adult. I am not talking about children.

 

I see now why you are effected ylangylang, and I am so sorry if you thought I also meant children, which I do not. If someone had of taken any one of my children, raped or killed them, they would have been dead if I could have got to them first.

 

LascielsShadow,

 

I am behind you all the way when it comes to children. Any adult that touchs a child for sure, needs to be 6ft deep. No child should have to go through having a child themselves.

 

 

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When it comes to children being raped or incest, does not matter, they should not have to carry a child to term to expose the rapist. This is wrong.

 

I am not being callous, when I say, "This just happened to be one monster and not all men are monsters is how I see it". I am talking about me being an adult. I am not talking about children.

 

I see now why you are effected ylangylang, and I am so sorry if you thought I also meant children, which I do not. If someone had of taken any one of my children, raped or killed them, they would have been dead if I could have got to them first.

 

LascielsShadow,

 

I am behind you all the way when it comes to children. Any adult that touchs a child for sure, needs to be 6ft deep. No child should have to go through having a child themselves.

Exactly. I honestly don't even know what leaps of logic they took to come to that conclusion. It's puzzling that they think the best way to expose an abuser is to put a child victim through further trauma.

 

Definitely, no child should have to go through that. That's one of the main reasons i have issues with the "no abortions, ever" side of the debate. It's needlessly cruel to subject an already victimised child to further trauma. An adult choosing to carry a baby conceived through rape is one thing; forcing someone who's barely old enough to understand what's going on to do so is another thing entirely.

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Not all shoes fit one size.

 

Same thing goes with abortion as well.

And this is why I argue for keeping abortion legal--because what is right for one is wrong for another.

 

The important thing is not the abortions--I don't actually know anybody who's "pro abortion" and just wants everything to be aborted--but the ability to have one if you decide that such is the best course of action. The ability to have that choice is vital. I like to consider myself pro-life AND pro-choice--because I feel to be truly pro-life you have to account for the mother, not just the potential baby. And if to preserve the mother's quality of life an abortion would be required, then so be it. It's very sad that we live in a world where such choices must be made, but that's reality, and preserving the mother is just as, if not more, important than preserving the potential child, IMO.

 

 

 

(Also, what you could do in the future if you're quoting something is type

[quote=source of the quote]INSERT QUOTE HERE[/quote]

That way we know you were quoting something and not stating your own opinion--because without the quote box it looks like it's your opinion. Just a tip, to avoid any other misunderstandings!)

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And this is why I argue for keeping abortion legal--because what is right for one is wrong for another.

 

The important thing is not the abortions--I don't actually know anybody who's "pro abortion" and just wants everything to be aborted--but the ability to have one if you decide that such is the best course of action.  The ability to have that choice is vital.  I like to consider myself pro-life AND pro-choice--because I feel to be truly pro-life you have to account for the mother, not just the potential baby.  And if to preserve the mother's quality of life an abortion would be required, then so be it.  It's very sad that we live in a world where such choices must be made, but that's reality, and preserving the mother is just as, if not more, important than preserving the potential child, IMO.

 

 

 

(Also, what you could do in the future if you're quoting something is type

[quote=source of the quote]INSERT QUOTE HERE[/quote]

That way we know you were quoting something and not stating your own opinion--because without the quote box it looks like it's your opinion.  Just a tip, to avoid any other misunderstandings!)

Well said KageSora.

 

I have to be honest with you, and please ya'll do not laugh, alright, I am, laughing at myself, but as far as doing certain things on the computer, I am computer illiterate when it comes to posting pictures and quotes and other certain things, laugh.gif

Edited by ~Kat~

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Hey, we all learn at different rates--it's taken me an embarrassingly long time to figure some stuff out myself, and I've been using computers since I can remember!

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Not all shoes fit one size.

 

Same thing goes with abortion as well. You have some people that agree with abortion no matter what the reason, and others do not agree with abortion on all reasons.

 

If you can not keep an open mind on the subject to the pro's and con's, why even be in the discussion!!!

Kat, please read what you've posted here, and then look back at your previous post:

 

ABORTION IS NO SOLUTION

 

By your own statement, abortion clearly is a solution sometimes. It was the solution for my little sister, whose life was at risk in her first pregnancy.

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For some women, keeping the unexpected child is the best course of action. For others, aborting it is the best course of action. The point is that women must have CHOICE, in my opinion.
Not all shoes fit one size.

Same thing goes with abortion as well.

I'm not saying that everyone who has been raped should abort. I'm just saying that there should be a choice for the people who do.
^Are saying more or less the same thing, don't you all think? You got to give people the opportunity to choose what's the best for them personally.

 

 

@Kestra: That part of Kat's post was a quote from a site which she already told she herself disagrees with.

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Kat, please read what you've posted here, and then look back at your previous post:

 

 

 

By your own statement, abortion clearly is a solution sometimes. It was the solution for my little sister, whose life was at risk in her first pregnancy.

That was part of a quote I was talking about, that had to do with something else.

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I am only talking about if I was raped, I would keep my child and raise it just like I did my other beloved children. They would know their sense of worth I can assure you. If they had problems, I would get them help. There are some that are so glad their parent did not abort them.

The individual I know was loved, and her parents did a great job. But you CANNOT control how others treat your child, taunt them about how "your parents didn't really want you" (or, in other cases how "you are evil because you were the product of rape") - peer opinion very often wins out over parents. Not least because children need the approval of their peers.

 

Sad, awful, but true.

 

It is the fact that we cannot control what happens outside the home that is the issue, here, ~Kat~ - not how great a job you do as a parent. Even therapy doesn't always do it.

 

Consider the opposite scenario - the child who is horribly abused and taken from that home by social workers, for their own protection - and who keeps running back to that home because they know they ought to love their parents, so what those parents do to them is OK REALLY....

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Even therapy doesn't always do it.

 

To add to it, therapy is ineffective in more cases than the general public tends to be aware. It will help some, but many it won't help, or wont help much. Thus, advocating therapy - for the children, abused women, et cetera - as the solution falls short. It is one of the things to try, but not the solution which would always work out, and many don't even have the money to try.

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