Abortion

[lightbird]

Putting this here because both the article and the comments are, for the most part, very honest and moving.

[Rosedamai]

Putting this here because both the article and the comments are, for the most part, very honest and moving.

Those are all such moving stories. Thank you for posting them.

[IsmaielDeath]

Putting this here because both the article and the comments are, for the most part, very honest and moving.

Thank you so much for posting this.

 

I never knew there were so much out there feeling the same. Not the wish to die but the wish that they had been aborted. I always thought I was alone with this.

While many of them lived trough much harder situations/lifes than I had to. I don't wish to die (not anymore) but I still believe my mother should have aborted me. It would have been better for us all.

[~Kat~]

Either way, racism does exist, and, again, I believe it's safe to assume that it could be a reason for abortion. I don't think Kat's comment was racist.

Thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt and to others as well.

 

First of all I am not a racist.

 

I am sorry that I may not use or put the words that some of you think I should. To many of you make assumptions that are totally wrong. You need to read what a person posts, and if you are not sure, just ask that person please. I am direct, and I say what I mean.

 

We are all created equel in my eyes. We all bleed and we all have feelings. I have alwasy taught my children do not judge by color, but to look at a persons morals and convictions if you would like to have that person in your life. I have many black friends. Also my children could only say black, and you had better not use the N word around me either. I find that word very distasteful.

 

I know that many of you join these converstaions that have not seen what I have posted before. If one of my sons wanted to marry a black person, I have no objections and she or he would be my DIL or SIL regardless of what race. The only thing I have ever asked my children when they wanted a marital partner, is to make sure they are compatable, and they have the same morals and convictions.

 

I live in the Deep South where there is much racism and hatred, and I hate that people are like that. The whites do not like the blacks and same goes for black people, they do not like whites. My black friends and I discuss this situation all the time. Only through people like myself and my black friends can we try and make it better by teaching our children not to hate each other.

 

Some of you that think I am a racist, need to take the time and re-think things. You think you know what you are talking about but you do not. Unless you live in the Deep South, you know very little. Please know I also mean no disrespect to you, and not many things get under my skin, but this does because I have seen so much abuse and hatred towards the black people and even in the court system and it is not fair to them

 

I still have to address what I said if I was raped, I would keep my child. But I will do that later.

 

Again, thank you to those that had a belief in me.

[Rosedamai]

First of all I am not a racist.

I don't think you're racist. I was just trying to make sense of what you've said.

 

That said, just because you're not racist doesn't mean that you can't create something that espouses racist beliefs. I mean, come on. You live in the deep south, so I imagine that you know better about the history of how people of color were treated than me. Why is it so surprising, then, to see the oppressed people hate the oppressors? Just curious.

 

But this should really go on the racism thread. I apologize for derailing the conversation.

[~Kat~]

Even if you knew your child would never live a happy life because you chose not to abort? Even if by forcing life on them, you were ensuring that they would be tormented for the rest of their lives and eternally believe themselves evil? Even if you knew they'd attempt suicide at five by drinking bleach?

If I was raped, and kept my child, how can you say below

 

Even if by forcing life on them, you were ensuring that they would be tormented for the rest of their lives and eternally believe themselves evil? Even if you knew they'd attempt suicide at five by drinking bleach?

 

You might think, they would consider theirselves evil because they were the result of rape, but I certainly do not and would have made sure a child of mine conceived from rape did not either.

 

With my upbringing how I would raise a child of rape, I would assure them they were very much wanted as well as unique to me if I chose not to abort. If I chose not to abort, and did not give it up for adoption, that means I WOULD WANT MY CHILD I WAS CARRYING. I do understand that some of you can not be like me. I have a deep abiding love of children, no matter what color, or how I conceived that child. Just becaused I was raped, that child is not to blame period. Just because one half of a childs DNA came from a man who was a monster, doesnt mean a child is a monster, hate isn't hereditary.

 

I am not a racist either.

 

Men are men to me, know matter what color they are if I was raped. They all have the same equipment. I can see how it would bother some people and they would want to have an abortion.

 

Maybe it is because I have travelled the world, and done certain things, as well as have of understanding for human nature is the way I am and feel. I had two children from my marriage, and consider children a gift, not a right.

 

Many children are born of rape and have wonderful adopted parents and a wonderful life. Yes, some have a horrible life to. No one can say because a child born of rape is going to be tormented or kill themselves by drinking bleach. I am sure some children can not cope, and do kill themseves, but I feel that might be on who adopted them and the way they were treated and raised.

 

Below is an article on children of rape.

 

Conceived In Rape:

 

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/abortion/childs-...d-through-rape/

[Fuzzbucket]

Even if you chose to keep your child, you cannot control how that child feels about him/herself. However you love them an dthe rest.

 

I KNOW someone who was - let us say - a surprise to her parents. They were delighted to have her and kept her. But - in those days - if someone got married and gave birth 6 months later you had a pretty good idea.... She was teased and bullied mercilessly at school, for being "just an accident; your BROTHER was the one they wanted."

 

Doesn't matter how much you boost their self image and tell them how you love them - you CANNOT stop that happening. Or the feelings that go with it. Imagine how much worse if they could say "You are evil, your daddy raped your mommy..."

 

The thing is you cannot control what happens to your child - however much you want to. I'm not saying that no-one should keep their child, just that they should have the choice not to. AS they should with every pregnancy. No child should be born that is in any way unwanted. It simply isn't safe to assume that adoption will be an answer, and there is also the matter of having to go through the pregnancy - some women arenot able to do so without horrible damage to themselves - emotional or physical.

 

[ShinyTomato]

You might think, they would consider theirselves evil because they were the result of rape, but I certainly do not and would have made sure a child of mine conceived from rape did not either.

 

Assuming you are somehow a statistical outlier who knows exactly how they will respond to severe psychological damage and trauma, even then, you cannot guarantee how a child will feel about anything, let alone the way they were conceived. The only thing you can do is to make sure that they understand that you love and value them and would not change it.

 

There is no way you can make sure a child does not feel that way, sometimes by trying to make sure that you don't think they're evil, they'll take it to mean that they are. You can't control other people, Kat.

 

Just becaused I was raped, that child is not to blame period. Just because one half of a childs DNA came from a man who was a monster, doesnt mean a child is a monster, hate isn't hereditary.

 

The point was, the regardless of whether or not you wanted the child, you cannot think just because you love and want that child, that it is necessarily what was best for the child. You can't know how THEY will feel about it.

 

I love and cherish my daughter. I wouldn't change anything about her. Nothing I do or say will make her believe that. I can try, but every time I do, it just convinces her more that I wish she hadn't been conceived -- never mind that I went through with the pregnancy because I deeply wanted her.

 

No one can say because a child born of rape is going to be tormented or kill themselves by drinking bleach. I am sure some children can not cope, and do kill themseves, but I feel that might be on who adopted them and the way they were treated and raised.

 

Really? You think you can chalk it all up to how they were treated and raised and not what affect the decisions the mother made may have affected them?

 

And I am sorry, but as someone who has conceived in rape, and is in support groups for parents of children conceived in rape, your propaganda isn't accurate. If you could find an unbiased source, I would be glad to re-evaluate.

[Aingeal]

Kat, would you put your morals or convictions above what was best for the child?

 

I'm not attacking you. I've been in your position in the past. I simply want to see what you would put first.

[IsmaielDeath]

Below is an article on children of rape.

 

Conceived In Rape:

 

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/abortion/childs-...d-through-rape/

This site just says that every women getting an abortion after rape is a coward and selfish. This is one of the greatest disrespects of women I ever had to read.

It isn't selfish to abort if you know you can't love this child as much as it may need. It isn't coward to face all the thoughts, doubts, self-loathing and decisions one has to face before an abortion. Abortion requires much more thought than just going trough with the pregnancy.

 

Again: Not every women wants a child go trough to the hell of orphanages and then maybe adoption.

And, most important to me, no one is forced - either to get an abortion or not. It is their choise.

The site you posted wants to takes away that choise. It wants to force women to not abort.

 

And not every women gets an abortion. If they want that child and know/think they can love it enough and in the way the child needs they will go through with this pregnancy.

 

 

I think this site spits in the face of every free human. I hoped, really hoped, I would find something different on this site. But as it was obviously a pro-life site I didn't expect anything other. Sad really...

[Ashes The Second]

Even if you knew your child would never live a happy life because you chose not to abort? Even if by forcing life on them, you were ensuring that they would be tormented for the rest of their lives and eternally believe themselves evil? Even if you knew they'd attempt suicide at five by drinking bleach?

 

...The hell? I was probably due to too little money/not enough time to care for a child, and you're saying, that, first of all, I'd try to kill myself with bleach at the point of being five years old and would consider myself evil? No, really, that's one of the most narrow-minded opinions I have ever seen. I could have been a child produced by rape. I have no idea, but in general, to say something like that to a person who has been through not knowing her 'birth' family at all, and to say that I should consider myself evil for it... What a horrible life you must live, to think such a horrible thing of a fellow human being.

[ShinyTomato]

...The hell? I was probably due to too little money/not enough time to care for a child, and you're saying, that, first of all, I'd try to kill myself with bleach at the point of being five years old and would consider myself evil? No, really, that's one of the most narrow-minded opinions I have ever seen. I could have been a child produced by rape. I have no idea, but in general, to say something like that to a person who has been through not knowing her 'birth' family at all, and to say that I should consider myself evil for it... What a horrible life you must live, to think such a horrible thing of a fellow human being.

That was me offering up a specific situation where I had to deal with a case where a child attempted suicide at five, due to the fact that children in his preschool class had come back with reports that he was a result of rape. When he asked his mother about it, she tried to explain that she loved him no matter what and that he was very precious to her -- but he was convinced he was evil, and two days later attempted suicide by drinking bleach.

 

 

[~Kat~]

Assuming you are somehow a statistical outlier who knows exactly how they will respond to severe psychological damage and trauma, even then, you cannot guarantee how a child will feel about anything, let alone the way they were conceived. The only thing you can do is to make sure that they understand that you love and value them and would not change it.

 

There is no way you can make sure a child does not feel that way, sometimes by trying to make sure that you don't think they're evil, they'll take it to mean that they are. You can't control other people, Kat.

 

 

 

The point was, the regardless of whether or not you wanted the child, you cannot think just because you love and want that child, that it is necessarily what was best for the child. You can't know how THEY will feel about it.

 

I love and cherish my daughter. I wouldn't change anything about her. Nothing I do or say will make her believe that. I can try, but every time I do, it just convinces her more that I wish she hadn't been conceived -- never mind that I went through with the pregnancy because I deeply wanted her.

 

 

 

Really? You think you can chalk it all up to how they were treated and raised and not what affect the decisions the mother made may have affected them?

 

And I am sorry, but as someone who has conceived in rape, and is in support groups for parents of children conceived in rape, your propaganda isn't accurate. If you could find an unbiased source, I would be glad to re-evaluate.

You can not know how a child will react until they are old enough to be told, I agree. I would just hope if it had of ever happened to me, my love, and teachings would be strong enough for my child to believe in me when I told them how they were conceived. If not, I would also seek some help outside such as a very good therapist. I also know I can not control others, no one can, but I can sure give a child a wonderful home life.

 

I am so sorry about your daughter. Maybe she needs to go to a very good therapist, just a suggestion. Maybe you already have. Of course I do not know all the history. I am sure this hurts you a lot.

 

I am sorry that you call my feelings or anything else that my propaganda isn't accurate. If you think all you say is totally right, that is ok to, There are many stories out there that are good as well as bad, we are all different. I was talking about me and how I feel only.

[ShinyTomato]

I am so sorry about your daughter. Maybe she needs to go to a very good therapist, just a suggestion. Maybe you already have. Of course I do not know all the history. I am sure this hurts you a lot.

 

She already has been in therapy, yes. It is something she will have to deal with her entire life. I pray every night that she has the strength to get through it -- all the love in the world can't change that.

 

I am sorry that you call my feelings or anything else that my propaganda isn't accurate.

 

I wasn't referring to your feelings, I was referring to your link you posted. Not your post itself. The life zone bit, which offers no studies to back up assertions, nor does it balance the "good" stories, or source any meaningful material about how children conceived in rape react to things beyond "These Kids are Happy Your kid will be happy too!

 

 

[~Kat~]

Kat, would you put your morals or convictions above what was best for the child?

 

I'm not attacking you. I've been in your position in the past. I simply want to see what you would put first.

I am only talking about if I was raped, I would keep my child and raise it just like I did my other beloved children. They would know their sense of worth I can assure you. If they had problems, I would get them help. There are some that are so glad their parent did not abort them.

 

I am sorry for what you have been through, please know that. We are not all alike, and just because of your situation, it may not be the same turn out if I had been throught the same thing.

 

This article below I posted, I was interested in the children of rape and what was said about each individual.

 

I do not always agree with everything written in an article that is for sure.

 

I do agree that getting an abortion does not solve the problem. Some women have a really hard time getting over rape, and I certainly can not blame them at all. Rape is horrific. To me if a woman is raped and wants an abortion, I am all for her doing this.

 

 

 

Those encouraging abortion for rape victims often do so because they are uncomfortable dealing with the issue. We are encouraged to think that destroying the baby 'solves the problem'. It's seen as a "quick fix" but it avoids dealing with the woman's true emotional, social and financial needs.

 

The voices of rape victims all too-often go unheard. According to Kathleen DeZeeuw, "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child conceived in rape, feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used by pro-abortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side."

 

We have examined the issues of pregnancy through rape in the issues section of 'abortion' and in the sexual assault section of 'women'. In this section, we look at the issue from the view of the child; by giving a voice to children who were conceived through rape and lived.

 

We must recognize that the children conceived through sexual assault have a voice which deserves to be heard. Julie Makimaa, conceived by an act of rape, works diligently against the perception that abortion is acceptable or even necessary in cases of sexual assault. While naturally sympathetic to the suffering her mother endured at the hands of her attacker, Julie is also rightfully proud of her mother's courage and generosity. Regarding her own view of her origin, Julie proclaims: "It doesn't matter how I began. What matters is who I will become."

 

http://www.prolifeinfo.ie/abortion/childs-...d-through-rape/

[Aingeal]

I am only talking about if I was raped, I would keep my child and raise it just like I did my other beloved children. They would know their sense of worth I can assure you. If they had problems, I would get them help. There are some that are so glad their parent did not abort them.

 

I wasn't referring explicitly to rape. I'm talking about, if you knew, for a fact, that it would be in a child's best interests not to be born, and that they would not want to be born, would you abort? Or would you put your personal opinion/conviction that children are a gift above.

[Sorrowgrave]

I knew a girl who was raped when I was in middle school, she chose to abort.

 

I also know a woman who was raped, and kept her now almost year old daughter.

 

The voice of one rape victim, or her child does NOT cover all of their voices and moral or emotional grounds.

abortion should be available to all women who need them,

most of all those who didn't even have any emotions toward the child's father.

 

 

this is LIFE

 

there is NO one size fits all

Edited August 18, 2012 by Sorrowgrave

[Nine]

According to Kathleen DeZeeuw, "I, having lived through rape, and also having raised a child conceived in rape, feel personally assaulted and insulted every time I hear that abortion should be legal because of rape and incest. I feel that we're being used by pro-abortionists to further the abortion issue, even though we've not been asked to tell our side."

 

[...]

 

Julie Makimaa, conceived by an act of rape, works diligently against the perception that abortion is acceptable or even necessary in cases of sexual assault. While naturally sympathetic to the suffering her mother endured at the hands of her attacker, Julie is also rightfully proud of her mother's courage and generosity.

That doesn't make sense. Let me try and rephrase that argument using a different example:

 

"I'm a burn victim survivor. I didn't get any facial reconstruction surgery. I don't like it when people try to use burn injuries as a reason to allow facial reconstruction surgery. It insults me because I'm a burn victim and didn't get the surgery."

 

Don't understand that last part either. Regardless if she is the product of rape, her opinion has no more weight than the opinion of any other individual. I don't care if there are burn victims who didn't get facial reconstruction surgery, I like the option being open in case I-- or anybody else-- is disfigured by fire and wants it.

[IsmaielDeath]

That doesn't make sense. Let me try and rephrase that argument using a different example:

 

"I'm a burn victim survivor. I didn't get any facial reconstruction surgery. I don't like it when people try to use burn injuries as a reason to allow facial reconstruction surgery. It insults me because I'm a burn victim and didn't get the surgery."

 

Don't understand that last part either. Regardless if she is the product of rape, her opinion has no more weight than the opinion of any other individual. I don't care if there are burn victims who didn't get facial reconstruction surgery, I like the option being open in case I-- or anybody else-- is disfigured by fire and wants it.

Wow. I don' think anyone could have gotten that any better.

Thanks for this simile.

[LascielsShadow]

Forgive me if I don't lend much credence to a site that quotes things like:

Abortion is just as inept a solution for incest as it is for rape or any other reason especially from the psychological point of view. Incest expert R. Bruce Sloan, M.D., states that:

 

"The psychiatric basis for terminating the life of an unborn baby incestuously conceived has absolutely no scientific merit and derives from a blind adherence to a legal formulation espoused by abortion promoters now including organized psychiatry."

R. Bruce Sloan, M.D. New England Journal of Medicine. The Consequences of Incest. The Psychological Aspects of Abortion. University Publications of America, 1979

 

Georgia Early struck at the heart of the matter when she said that;

"When incest is involved, allowing abortion in pregnancy cases of minors tends to compound the exploitation of the innocent victim and protect the perpetrator from exposure so that he may continue his illegal and immoral acts without fear of discovery."

 

 

"To rehabilitate child abusers, it is necessary to work on their feelings of self-esteem, their memories of themselves being abused as children, and to get them to see their own children in a new way. Abortion sidesteps this very involved process because the child incestuously pregnant is taken for an abortion and then returned to the home where the abuse occurred. Abortion also perpetuates the generational violence where the abused child becomes the child abuser."

Georgia Early. "Incest, Sexual Child Abuse and Abortion." Life Advocate, May/June 1980."

that. Hard. The idea that abortion in such cases has no scientific merit is absolutely ludicrous. It's not hard to prove that there are many, many cases where abortion did, in fact, preserve the mental, physical, and/or emotional health of a pregnant rape victim. I like how one doctor is dismissing all of organised psychiatry as being "Abortion promoters". Because the people who would have a slightly better understanding of the human psyche couldn't possibly know what they were talking about and have valid reasons to think abortion could be psychologically beneficial, yeah?

 

THIS is what people not giving a damn about the victims looks like. "oh, hey, that ten year old is pregnant with her father's baby? Oh, no you can't abort that fetus, it's *evidence*." "You have to make that nine-year old give birth so the person who abused her is exposed." Uh, no. A child is not Exhibit A. Wouldn't the fact that the victim even needed to have an abortion in the first place be pretty good evidence?

 

Apparently, forcing a child or teenager to carry a pregnancy conceived by incest is somehow not exploiting them? And I'm pretty damned sure that anyone taking in a kid to have an abortion is going to be exposed. There are these things called "laws", last I checked. They don't require anyone to tell some unfortunate child that she's going to have to suffer physical and emotional damage for the sake of exposing her abuser.

 

Oh, and by the way, that site is perpetuating the myth that abortions cause breast cancer, and that the morning after pill is an abortifacent. (It's not, any more than normal birth control is.) They have also somehow concluded that a zygote is a "tiny embryo" (science, how the f* does it work?), seem to have a problem with contraception, and seem to have the attitude of "Happiness can only be achieved through family/TEH BAYBEES, and living for oneself is BAD and WRONG. Also, too many wimminz are out having careers and not popping out kids as soon as they get married."

 

That site is not even remotely unbiased. Of course there are women who chose not to abort pregnancies that were the result of rape, and of course there are a number of them whose children are happy and healthy/well-adjusted. That's not the whole story, though, and I don't trust it any more than I'd trust a site that was sending the message that pregnancies by rape will always ruin your life and that of the child, and you should never choose to keep the baby, ever.

Edited August 18, 2012 by LascielsShadow

[Snowytoshi]

Be fully informed about abortion. Get information on abortion techniques. Get information on the possible physical and emotional damage that can result after an abortion. Recognise that abortion is a business that makes a profit from your suffering. Having an abortion is an important decision. Take time to know what you are doing.

 

An abortion is not the solution to any of these scenarios. It will most likely create problems in relationships with your baby's father and with your parents. The shared guilt will create a wall between you and those you love. There are also physical and psychological effects as a result of having an abortion.

 

^^That bit- especially the bolded part left me feeling sick. This website did not leave me with a balanced impression. They seem to think that if you want an abortion you are being exploited.

 

[IsmaielDeath]

 

 

^^That bit- especially the bolded part left me feeling sick. This website did not leave me with a balanced impression. They seem to think that if you want an abortion you are being exploited.

The whole website is sick...

[Rosedamai]

I'm just disgusted and I refuse to comment.

[~Kat~]

I'm just disgusted and I refuse to comment.

I would have to read what you are all talking about in its entirety. I have looked and can not find it.

[Rosedamai]

I would have to read what you are all talking about in its entirety. I have looked and can not find it.

The. Site. And there are plenty of people above my post who's posted stuff that are frankly disgusting to me.