Abortion

[ShinyTomato]

I'd also like to note that you never know what reaction you'll have to a rape pregnancy, until you're in that situation.

 

I've known people who were against abortion in all cases, with every fibre of their being, who couldn't carry a rape pregnancy. I've known friends who were so against abortion they committed suicide because they couldn't carry. I've known people who were pro-choice who couldn't deal.

 

When I was pregnant with Kai, there were times when my wife wanted to abort because of what it was doing to me. Nascha, in case you didn't know, is very much "babybabybaby" she's a consummate mum. She freaking DAYDREAMED about morning sickness.

 

So you don't know how you'll react. No one does. You can guess, but that is all it will be.

[DarkLadyNyara]

Wait, whoa, whoa, stop...

 

What the heck does race have to do with anything?

Fourthed. How the heck did I miss that?

[brairtrainer]

I think what Kat meant was that for some people who are raped they may make the choice to keep the baby if there is a chance that no one could tell that it wasn't from their significant other, or if they grew up in a family that dislike interracial relationships.

 

She just added an extra dimension that threw the conversation off.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think what Kat meant was that for some people who are raped they may make the choice to keep the baby if there is a chance that no one could tell that it wasn't from their significant other, or if they grew up in a family that dislike interracial relationships.

 

She just added an extra dimension that threw the conversation off.

Not an acceptable dimension though.

[Rosedamai]

Not an acceptable dimension though.

Agreed. Honestly, a rapist is a rapist is a rapist. Nothing else.

[prairiecrow]

I think what Kat meant was that for some people who are raped they may make the choice to keep the baby if there is a chance that no one could tell that it wasn't from their significant other, or if they grew up in a family that dislike interracial relationships.

 

She just added an extra dimension that threw the conversation off.

I don't think so. What she said was:

 

Even if I had ever been raped, no matter what race, I would keep my child.

 

Which, to me, implies that race is a real issue for her personally. That's what I'm asking for clarification on, because it has some disturbing implications (ie, that [insert race here] men are more likely to rape).

Edited August 17, 2012 by prairiecrow

[Rosedamai]

(ie, that [insert race here] men are more likely to rape).

Or that for her personally, getting raped by someone who was (insert race) is somehow worse.

[Shienvien]

...We can only hope that she has met a lot of people who have claimed to make a distinction by race (e.g. they are more likely keep a child of a certain race), and wanted to stress that she is not one of them.

 

(Though I agree - one can't always accurately predict how one would feel in a certain scenario.)

Edited August 17, 2012 by Shienvien

[AngelKitty]

OH MAN SOMEONE MENTIONED RACE THEY MUST BE A RACIST.

 

No, actually, the only thing implied by that statement is that rapists come in all colors, and that race is not an issue to her, because a child is a child, no matter who it came from or what it looks like. She said nothing about the percentages of rapes by race, or that the children of one race are inferior to another, or that black rapists are worse than white rapists, or any of that. Let's not read too deeply here.

[IsmaielDeath]

Then WHY did she mention it? If it doesn't matter to her?

What I learned is that the most racist statements begin with 'I don't have anything agains [insert ethnic group here] , but...' They are racist in the same way people that say 'Oh.. he is gay? I don't have anything agains those people... really' are homophobic (I hope this is the right translation).

They (un)consciousmake their 'indifference' becoming a difference. Which is in a way just as hurtful as open hostility can be.

 

Maybe I'm just handicapped because of my experience...

 

Anyway. Back to topic: I don't think anyone can say in advance how they would react to rape and everything that may come from rape. It would be like stating how you would react to someone holding a gun to your head and comanding you to kill a random person in front you in exchange for your own life. (Yes that happened like 20+ years back).

You just can't because your mind in a 'relaxed' situation you have when thinking something over works definitely in an other way than it would in panic or trauma.

[Fuzzbucket]

Then WHY did she mention it? If it doesn't matter to her?

What I learned is that the most racist statements begin with 'I don't have anything agains [insert ethnic group here] , but...' They are racist in the same way people that say 'Oh.. he is gay? I don't have anything agains those people... really' are homophobic (I hope this is the right translation).

They (un)consciousmake their 'indifference' becoming a difference. Which is in a way just as hurtful as open hostility can be.

Exactly, I'm afraid....

[IsmaielDeath]

Agreed.

 

I believe it's safe to assume that there are people out there who WOULD abort, simply because their rapist is not the same ethnicity as them. Or their families would strongly advocate it. Also, any doctor here correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been told that it could be unhealthy to mix different ethnicities by my mother, who is a nurse. I know someone who is mixed and has many health problems, but I don't know if those coincide with each other or not, considering her brother doesn't seem to have many health problems.

 

Either way, racism does exist, and, again, I believe it's safe to assume that it could be a reason for abortion. I don't think Kat's comment was racist.

I NEVER heard of something like that 'it could be unhealthy to mix different ethnicities'. I mean besides the history lessons. As long as no one can me give at least 5 different statistics that confirm this, all I will think of such statents is that they are the same stupid excuse the nazis had for outlawing 'mixed race'(mor like mixed ethnicities) coupples.

 

I really don't know why people make such a difference where there is no real difference at all.

Racism is one of the viles things in human society. It is a poison eating away the mind of people by telling them lies and half-truths. It almost only creates harm and the only positive effect (namely the stronger connection people in one group feelt to each other) could be achieved just as easily in other less harmfull ways.

[AngelKitty]

Then WHY did she mention it? If it doesn't matter to her?

What I learned is that the most racist statements begin with 'I don't have anything agains [insert ethnic group here] , but...'

Except that the statement wasn't a "I'm not racist, but..." type statement. It was an "I believe this, no matter what race" statement.

 

Why did she say it? Nobody knows but her. Maybe she's been in this debate before and had someone ask such a question before, and was answering before it came up. Maybe she figured she'd counteract the stereotype of white Christian conservatives being racist with that statement. Maybe race does matter to her in other, non-child-related situations. But, I'm not about to make assumptions and cry "racism" over a single innocuous statement. I'm gonna wait for Kat to respond before I settle my thoughts on the matter.

 

Also, any doctor here correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always been told that it could be unhealthy to mix different ethnicities by my mother, who is a nurse. I know someone who is mixed and has many health problems, but I don't know if those coincide with each other or not, considering her brother doesn't seem to have many health problems.

 

Not a doctor, but I'm a biologist, and no, simply mixing ethnicity isn't more likely to cause health problems. Certain ethnicities are more prone to certain conditions than others, but that's not the point. If both parents are healthy and aren't carrying any genetic diseases, then their kids aren't going to be unhealthy just because the parents are different races.

 

Likewise, if you get two people of the same race who are prone to health problems, or have family histories of health problems, their kids are more likely to have those health problems.

 

I'm a pretty good example, especially in the mental and emotional department. Various members of both my paternal AND maternal family have ADD, autism, depression, OCD, paranoia, various unknown anxiety disorders, or combinations thereof. So I had the crap thrown at me from BOTH sides of my family, and I'm not medicated, I'm a jittery emotional trainwreck who's prone to crying over macaroni noodles (true story, I swear to GOD, but it's one for another thread, or PM ).

Edited August 17, 2012 by AngelKitty

[Ashes The Second]

Eh, I grew up with my mother telling me that. Probably because I AM mixed. I more prone to heart disease, skin cancer, etc. (so she said) because I'm half Hispanic. I could see where one would get the idea, though.

That's racist, lol. Yes, it could happen if it was /genetics/, but if it's just 'you're Hispanic, therefore you'll get more diseases than me', that's racist.

[Fuzzbucket]

Eh, I grew up with my mother telling me that. Probably because I AM mixed. I more prone to heart disease, skin cancer, etc. (so she said) because I'm half Hispanic. I could see where one would get the idea, though.

I imagine she meant that because you have Hispanic blood you are more prone to the things that Hispanics are more prone to. Just as - for instance - as far as I know you cannot have one type of thalassaemia unless you have some Indian (as in from India) blood. A white friend of mine has it; I expressed surprise as (from working with a doctor for years) I had thought it impossible and she informed me that her Grandmother was Indian. Same thing with sickle cell, which I think you can only rarely get unless you have some African genes in there. SOME conditions are actually race specific; others are more common in some particular races than in the general population. I know there are some more common among Caucasians - who are far more at risk of cystic fibrosis, for instance.

[Brite]

Too many posts, so I will not be able to read them all.

I have very strong opinions and believe abortion is flat-out MURDER unless there is a rock-hard reason for it. And the only reasons I believe abortion is RIGHT is if the mother is in mortal danger due to her child.

I don't care if it was rape, put the child up for adoption. If abortion was the norm 50 years ago, I would not be here. My father's mother was attacked and raped, yet she carried him to term and then put him up for adoption. I won't say his adoptive parents were the best, since my immediate family (save for my father and my baby siblings) pretty much refuse to speak to them (they adopted another baby and she abused my father throughout his life).

And if that isn't enough, my best friend throughout junior and senior high school experienced at least one failed abortion while she was in her mother's womb.

Put simply, having children is a GIFT. I wish the human race had to EARN the ability to procreate.

I'm a bit late on this but I had to put my opinion.

 

 

You sound nothing like a real pro-lifer. Just a an all pro-fetus cold pro-birther. If you want that child born so badly, you can take care of it. What the heck? You want them ALL born, so take care of them all! I'll let every woman with an unwanted pregnancy know that you are there to take her child and give it love, food, clothes, health, everything they need.

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm a bit late on this but I had to put my opinion.

 

 

You sound nothing like a real pro-lifer. Just a an all pro-fetus cold pro-birther. If you want that child born so badly, you can take care of it. What the heck? You want them ALL born, so take care of them all! I'll let every woman with an unwanted pregnancy know that you are there to take her child and give it love, food, clothes, health, everything they need.

I LIKE you

 

Nice one

[SoulFeather]

*Jumping into the thread*

 

Personally I believe abortions are not a form of birth control, if you abort once because of unwanted pregnancy it can be forgiven. However constantly using it because you do not take or use birth control means you probably should just be sterilized.

 

Abortions should not be banned. I have a very close friend who was pregnant with twins, with her husband of 2 years. At 2 months they told her her babies had very severe birth defects, and would not survive, however she was also at risk of dieing during childbirth. The doctors would not abort the babies as they considered it to be unethical. 6 months later she went into labor, she refused an epidural due to personal beliefs. After 7 hours, she gave birth. To two babies who never even drew their first breaths.

[KageSora]

However constantly using it because you do not take or use birth control means you probably should just be sterilized.

If they could get sterilized, there are quite a few people who would.

 

But unless you meet specific conditions then many doctors won't sterilize you (it's to protect them from lawsuit happy people who sue later in life when they change their minds).

 

Also, some people DO change their minds and want to bear children later.

[lightbird]

I'm a bit late on this but I had to put my opinion.

 

 

You sound nothing like a real pro-lifer. Just a an all pro-fetus cold pro-birther. If you want that child born so badly, you can take care of it. What the heck? You want them ALL born, so take care of them all! I'll let every woman with an unwanted pregnancy know that you are there to take her child and give it love, food, clothes, health, everything they need.

Exactly.

 

You know what they say, for a majority of pro-lifers/actually pro-birthers, life starts at conception and ends at birth.

[prairiecrow]

Exactly.

 

You know what they say, for a majority of pro-lifers/actually pro-birthers, life starts at conception and ends at birth.

Pretty much. They demand that TEH PRESHUSS BAYBEHS be born in spite of the mothers being unable to financially support them, then demand that social services programs be stripped to the bone so THEM LAZY POOR PEEPLES don't "take advantage" of the system.

 

Er... exactly how does that work again? You demand that women keep their children, then take away the ability of those women to provide their children with a good quality of life? How is that anything other than pointless and cruel?

[Rosedamai]

Pretty much. They demand that TEH PRESHUSS BAYBEHS be born in spite of the mothers being unable to financially support them, then demand that social services programs be stripped to the bone so THEM LAZY POOR PEEPLES don't "take advantage" of the system.

 

Er... exactly how does that work again? You demand that women keep their children, then take away the ability of those women to provide their children with a good quality of life? How is that anything other than pointless and cruel?

It's like they don't care about kids after they're being born, which I think is the case.

 

Then WHY did she mention it? If it doesn't matter to her?

 

THIS.

Edited August 17, 2012 by ylangylang

[KageSora]

And that's why I make a distinction between pro-life and pro-forced birth.

 

You can be pro-life and pro-choice--but you can't be pro-life and pro-forced birth.

 

 

Pro-life means you don't just write the mother off as a baby incubator with no worth as a person herself. Pro-life means you support the preservation of life in the best quality it can be had--and if that means the mother is forced to abort to retain her health (NOT just physical, mental and emotional are vital, too), then you accept her choice and don't judge or condemn her for that.

 

You care for the mother in the same way you care for the unborn child.

 

I cannot stand those who honestly think that it is alright to mentally and emotionally break the mother beyond repair so long as she pops out that baby.

 

If you dare say something like that to me, I cannot guarantee a reasonable reaction.

 

If you don't care about the mother, and think the child is so much more important to the point where you don't pay attention to the mother...

 

I have no words that would not get me modded to express my feelings for you accurately. To say that such disgusts me is an understatement of the highest order.

[HeroLink42]

Pretty much. They demand that TEH PRESHUSS BAYBEHS be born in spite of the mothers being unable to financially support them, then demand that social services programs be stripped to the bone so THEM LAZY POOR PEEPLES don't "take advantage" of the system.

 

Er... exactly how does that work again? You demand that women keep their children, then take away the ability of those women to provide their children with a good quality of life? How is that anything other than pointless and cruel?

YES. EXACTLY. They just want the baby to be born. Who cares what happens to it after that, amirite?

[Vhale]

Just leaving these here.

 

 

http://jezebel.com/5935644/new-pro-life-la...for-health-care