Abortion

[Syaoransbear]

Ah, where's that link for the site talking about protesters who got abortions, something like "the only moral abortion is mine" or something.

Read that, which is why I said 'most' instead of 'all'.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I will say this again: at what point going back from the moment of birth does a baby cease to be a baby?

 

Everyone I've seen arguing the pro-choice arguement is trying to justify the death of a baby. That is what you are doing. Are things like the mother's mental well-being, an assurance that the child will be well cared for after they are born, and so on important? Yes.

 

But that still does not ever make it ok to kill a baby.

 

You are trying to justify killing a baby.

 

Killing a baby.

 

Debate all you like, but that will never, ever, EVER be justifiable to me. If we as a human society have come to believe that killing an infant is the best possible option we can present in millions of cases, then something is incredibly wrong.

 

It might be understandable if you considered it an option in a few rare cases. But as justification for the millions of abortions that occur yearly? No, goodness no.

Edited April 14, 2012 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Snowytoshi]

But it is not yet a baby- instead all it is, is a clump of cell, barely defineable. Why not spend time saving the children that are alive versus the lumps of cell?

[DarkLadyNyara]

I will say this again: at what point going back from the moment of birth does a baby cease to be a baby?

How about "before it gains the ability to think or feel". Since, you know, that's when nearly all abortions take place. And that's being generous on my part, since in technical terms, it's not a "baby" or infant until birth- before that, it's a fetus or an embryo.

 

Now "when does it have rights" is a completely different question, and that's what the real issue is here. "When does a fetus gain rights that NO OTHER PERSON has?" Can someone answer that for me?

 

If we as a human society have come to believe that killing an infant is the best possible option we can present in millions of cases, then something is incredibly wrong.

 

You aren't very familliar with human society if you think "killing an infant" is something new. Only, it used to be (and in many areas, still is) actual, born infants being killed. Not non-viable embryos and fetuses that don't have a functioning brain yet.

[hazeh]

 

You are trying to justify killing a baby.

 

Not really. I'm justifying a woman's right to her own life over something else's that hasn't even started yet. I'm justifying the decision that this could very well be the better choice for the potential child. That's what parents do, anyway. They decide what is best for their children. And if it means keeping them from existing until times are right, then so be it.

[tyto_alba]

You are trying to justify killing a baby.

 

Killing a baby.

Words like 'baby' and 'infant' suggest it has already been born. Killing something that's already been born is wrong.

 

We're debating the termination of fetus yet to be born that has the potential to become babies and infants, because fetus =/= baby/infant. Fetuses have the potential to become many things besides babies.

 

[Rosedamai]

I will say this again: at what point going back from the moment of birth does a baby cease to be a baby?

 

Everyone I've seen arguing the pro-choice arguement is trying to justify the death of a baby. That is what you are doing. Are things like the mother's mental well-being, an assurance that the child will be well cared for after they are born, and so on important? Yes.

 

 

This look like a baby to you?

 

Another thing, if we're going to argue that we don't know at what point a fetus becomes a baby, can we outlaw the depositing of sperm anywhere but inside a woman's vagina that holds a fertile egg? Because sperm and egg both have the potential to become a live human being.

 

So every time a woman has a period-she's a murderer! I can't believe I couldn't have figured it out for so long! Same goes for a man who've deposited his sperm into anything other than a fertile woman's insides. Keep your hands above the desk, young man!

 

And yeah, we should definitely get rid of the morning-after pill as well. That might kill the wee innocent babe whose picture I've posted above.

 

 

Human fetus at 4 weeks=/=baby. There's a reason why there's a word called FETUS. Looks more like a fish to me.

 

 

Seriously if you're going to use the "fetus=baby" thing, then every time you're eating some sort of nuts you're killing trees.

Edited April 14, 2012 by ylangylang

[xhunter]

Debate all you like, but that will never, ever, EVER be justifiable to me. If we as a human society have come to believe that killing an infant is the best possible option we can present in millions of cases, then something is incredibly wrong.

 

we justify killing hundreds of animals because people will not fix there animals to prevent overpopulation. do you believe thats murder? shore there animals but so are humans, humans have a lot of the same problems as animal. but we are not trying to make you think diff. on it. it might be murder to you but most are nulled on it sense it is a fetus and not a child we are talking about. plus human socity justify killing already alive people like themselves when they fight wars or are cereal killers, or most common now they just don't like the mother as they call it.

 

but we will not force you to believe anything you don't want to, thats the blessings of a choice. all we ask is your solutions on a working method other than toss the kid into a systems if you have any. or your solution on keeping both the mother rights and the child, personalty i can only think of one and that is transferring the fetus to a willing host.

 

those little lives add up and even if every female in the world decided not to have a abortion for, lets say, 2 years a full birth process or so, and they could not care for the child. so every one of them do make the hard decision to give the child away what then? the systems are over flowing as is and there is not a high possibility that they will be able to support them once they hit legal working age because frankly its more than hard to get a job as is, i have been looking for one over a year in my area and the area around my town. so even if your alive now or in the future then you deepen the problems. a breeder will never breed more than they can care for without a solution to the surplus litter. same as with a gov or community.

 

but anyways

 

ylangylang: that second picture looks like a two fetuses growing out of each other.

[crazyflower]

Debate all you like, but that will never, ever, EVER be justifiable to me. If we as a human society have come to believe that killing an infant is the best possible option we can present in millions of cases, then something is incredibly wrong.

 

I think it would be incredibly wrong if women lose the right to control their own body.

Should a woman be forced to go through nine months of torture to give birth to a baby do not want? That doesn't sound like it would end well.

What about someone who has a severe phobia of pregnancy? Forcing them through that could kill them.

What if a ten year old gets raped? Would you really force a ten year old to give birth to a baby?

That would put incredible stress on their body.

[Sorrowgrave]

my thyroid doesn't work at all, there's a chance that I'll have to have sugerery to remove it.

Because of this and my fear of Pregnancy and dislike of all things under the age of 4 I'm not good mom material.

Add in a history of mental illness, breaking under pressure and the fact that I avidly DO NOT WANT KIDS

 

Would you "lolno" me if I wanted to get a abortion if I was raped? (being Asexual it's the only way I would get pregnant)

not only would it have the potentail to kill me, put stress on my body and mental health but It would ruin my life. There's a reason I don't like being around schools for young children. I see girls all the time walking around with pregnant bellies or totting a toddler from class to class.

 

 

Anyone who would force a woman to go to hell and back is just pure evil.

 

A baby is a WANTED embryo or fetus. A unwanted one (note not unplanned because some unplanned pregnancies are rejoiced upon) is just that, unwanted. What if the couple broke up? Husband or boyfriend turned abusive? Was cheating? in jail for murder or attempted? maybe he just plain left her.what if things were good for a while then crashed and they couldn't possible take care of it?

 

Pro lifers are pro birthers, unless your local adoption agency has declared you unfit to adopt a child from them even after activly trying to atleast foster then you're a hyprocrite

if you're not willing to take on a child, then why should someone else be forced into it?

 

 

[skinst]

Ah, where's that link for the site talking about protesters who got abortions, something like "the only moral abortion is mine" or something.

mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

 

Ask and ye shall recieve. <3

[Rosedamai]

ylangylang: that second picture looks like a two fetuses growing out of each other.

I know. Fetuses look pretty freaky, at least in the first stages, not like some little baby. I think the reddish blob in the middle is a rudimentary heart, but I can't be sure.

[skinst]

You are trying to justify killing a baby.

 

Killing a baby.

 

Debate all you like, but that will never, ever, EVER be justifiable to me. If we as a human society have come to believe that killing an infant is the best possible option we can present in millions of cases, then something is incredibly wrong.

 

It might be understandable if you considered it an option in a few rare cases. But as justification for the millions of abortions that occur yearly? No, goodness no.

Humans justify death of life all day every day. How's a fetus any different from killing a full grown animal, a full grown human, plant life, bugs, so on and so forth? Because it's human?

 

Life is life. Death is death.

[Brite]

Are things like the mother's mental well-being, an assurance that the child will be well cared for after they are born, and so on important? Yes.

 

Did you even LOOK at the link I posted? If you want to make sure the well being of the child is secure, focus on fixing the system, including fostering and CPS before considering fixing abortion, otherwise you're sending most of the unwanted kids to a torture fate. And they call us evil....

[LascielsShadow]

I will say this again: at what point going back from the moment of birth does a baby cease to be a baby?

 

And I will say again: when it becomes a fetus/embryo/blastocyst/zygote. Not complicated. (Oh, and when it becomes an egg and a sperm which have not yet met. That one's important, too.)

 

 

Zygote:

 

Blastocyst:

 

Embryo:

 

Fetus:

 

 

Z/B/E/F =/= infant/baby. At all.

 

Also, absolutely agreeing with what Sorrowgrave said:

A baby is a WANTED embryo or fetus. A unwanted one (note not unplanned because some unplanned pregnancies are rejoiced upon) is just that, unwanted.

 

Technically, a fetus or embryo is not a baby yet, but being wanted changes the way people think of them. Unwanted pregnancies are not going to be thought or spoken of in the same way as wanted ones. Biologically, there's no difference. A fetus is a fetus, but whether said fetus is one that is wanted by its mother is what makes all the difference.

Edited April 16, 2012 by LascielsShadow

[TikindiDragon]

I will say this again: at what point going back from the moment of birth does a baby cease to be a baby?

The point at which it cannot live outside of the mother's womb. It cannot be called a baby if it doesn't have the brain/lung/other functions to survive.

 

I say again - most abortions are performed before the embryo has recogniseably human features. It is not a baby at that point. Women who do not want children will have the abortion almost as soon as they know they are pregnant.

 

Late-term abortions - the ones where it is recogniseably human - are only performed when the life of the mother is at stake, the fetus has such deformities that it couldn't survive outside the womb, or the fetus has died. The women who have late-term abortions actualy *wanted* their children. They didn't carry for 6 months and then suddenly decide they didn't want it any more. They are having the abortions because the fetus has died/will die, or because they may die if they don't. It's a brutally hard choice, and most women having late-term abortions will be deeply grieving.

[elderberrysyrup]

I will say this again: at what point going back from the moment of birth does a baby cease to be a baby?

 

Everyone I've seen arguing the pro-choice arguement is trying to justify the death of a baby. That is what you are doing. Are things like the mother's mental well-being, an assurance that the child will be well cared for after they are born, and so on important? Yes.

 

But that still does not ever make it ok to kill a baby.

 

You are trying to justify killing a baby.

 

Killing a baby.

 

Debate all you like, but that will never, ever, EVER be justifiable to me. If we as a human society have come to believe that killing an infant is the best possible option we can present in millions of cases, then something is incredibly wrong.

 

It might be understandable if you considered it an option in a few rare cases. But as justification for the millions of abortions that occur yearly? No, goodness no.

It's clear you aren't willing to change your opinion, why did you post...?

 

(I realize this may come off as offensive, apologies and I mean nothing by it.)

[Kai]

It's probably already a baby even before conception.

[Snowytoshi]

It's probably already a baby even before conception.

Where are you citations for this? Instead of just making a statement, how about you back it up?

[Rosedamai]

Where are you citations for this? Instead of just making a statement, how about you back it up?

I think Kai was being sarcastic. Or else I hope so.

 

Because, you see Snowytoshi, all scientists are wrong and they're part of a conspiracy to, you know, spread evil among mankind. THIS is what an actual sperm looks like.

 

 

See? It's a tiny baby! Even when it was a sperm, it's got a tiny baby inside it! You're killing baaaaabiiiiiies!

 

/sarcasm

[Snowytoshi]

Haha Poor little sperm, wasted on arousal

[Sorrowgrave]

I know that's there is a difference between zygotes and the end result of a baby.

 

Just spending time with both pro lifers, pregnant women, and pro choiers they all seem to argee that a wanted pregnant is a baby.

Though with most prolifers they seem to argue that every stage is one.

 

I really don't understand it, what about phamtom pregnancies? those who implant in places other than the womb, ones that turn cancerous have major birthdefects, like a lack of functioning nervous system or other disabilitly that would make life frankly short and put guilt upon the mother if she had to deliever it. Would those still be considered babies?

 

Really any wanted pregnnancy, that stats that way after the 12 week mark where most abnormal defeats are either caught, or causes a miscarriage could be argued as a baby because the mother's kept it, and is probably day dreaming about what color to pain the nursery or baby names

[Kestra15]

I will say this again: at what point going back from the moment of birth does a baby cease to be a baby?

 

Everyone I've seen arguing the pro-choice arguement is trying to justify the death of a baby. That is what you are doing. Are things like the mother's mental well-being, an assurance that the child will be well cared for after they are born, and so on important? Yes.

 

But that still does not ever make it ok to kill a baby.

 

You are trying to justify killing a baby.

 

Killing a baby.

 

Debate all you like, but that will never, ever, EVER be justifiable to me. If we as a human society have come to believe that killing an infant is the best possible option we can present in millions of cases, then something is incredibly wrong.

 

It might be understandable if you considered it an option in a few rare cases. But as justification for the millions of abortions that occur yearly? No, goodness no.

Prove to me when life begins.

[Vhale]

I think Kai was being sarcastic. Or else I hope so.

 

Because, you see Snowytoshi, all scientists are wrong and they're part of a conspiracy to, you know, spread evil among mankind. THIS is what an actual sperm looks like.

 

See? It's a tiny baby! Even when it was a sperm, it's got a tiny baby inside it! You're killing baaaaabiiiiiies!

 

/sarcasm

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-apri...2012/bro-choice

 

=p

And thus, the amendments deriding the waste of sperm were born.

[TikindiDragon]

Aaaaand now the only thing I can seem to think about is

.