Abortion

[AngelKitty]

Look, I realize that there can be mental pain associated with unwanted pregnancy and I do think that something should be done about it. I just don't agree that killing is the answer.

Really? Then what? What could possibly be done about the trauma of being forced to carry and birth a rape fetus that you don't want (or any unwanted fetus, for that matter), since actually avoiding that trauma in the first place is apparently out of the question?

[Fuzzbucket]

Look, I realize that there can be mental pain associated with unwanted pregnancy and I do think that something should be done about it. I just don't agree that killing is the answer.

It is rather considerably more than "mental pain". I have to assume that you have no history of mental illness, BTW, or you could not dismiss that kind of pain so lightly. There is every possibility that a woman denied an abortion might in the end kill herself as a direct result of having had to carry the child to term. I guess that would be OK with you, somehow ?? Suicide is presumably better than abortion ?

 

As a matter of interest, a 10 y/o who is forced to give birth can easily be so physically damaged that she will never be able to carry a child again. A child's body is not fully developed, skeletally or internally, to sustain that kind of weight and growth. But I guess infertility is OK, too - as long as that lump of parasitic cells gets to leech off a woman for 9 months.

 

Geez, I am almost starting to feel revolted by having carried two children to term, now....

[Obscure_Trash]

I've seen some pretty strong comments throughout here and I think it's time I closed this topic for a while and gave people time to breathe, calm down, and do other things.

 

This is a temporary closing. I will be re-opening it later.

 

<3

Edited April 12, 2012 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Obscure_Trash]

~Opened~

[prairiecrow]

I'm curious... does anyone think this type of demonstration is helpful to the pro-life position?

 

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-semi...-prayer-invasio

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio, April 12, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Seminarians from the only Pontifical College in the U.S. have an awe-inspiring approach for confronting abortion head-on. Dressed in full regalia of a black cassock, a traditional red sash, and armed with a rosary, the seminarians descend in a powerful show of force every Saturday on a local abortion facility to confront with prayer what the seminary’s rector calls the “poison of abortion.”

 

Father James Wehner, rector of the Josephinum in Columbus, Ohio, says he believes that seminarians need to “see visibly the forces of evil at work, and respond with an act of faith in which prayer becomes the greater force.”

 

“American culture is a blessing, but it is also poisoned,” he said. “The clergy, particularly priests, need to be able to confront that poison, not run away and hide from it. That means we have to confront it head-on.”

 

I would say that couching their opposition in overtly military language isn't terribly effective and probably only serves to deepen the divide between themselves and those they're presuming to try to help, but maybe that's just me.

[elderberrysyrup]

I almost feel as if this is becoming increasingly radical with the protesting against abortion and describing it as a poison or something like it. In a religious fervor there's very little chance we can sit down and discuss politics right?

[Vhale]

Anyone here read 9 Chickweed Lane? They seem to be doing a storyline that involves the main character unexpectedly getting pregnant and having to deal with it. Today's strip seemed apt to this discussion.

 

 

Personally, I don't have a problem saying abortion sucks or that it's the lesser of two evils. I do have a problem calling it murder because that is a blanket statement that covers women and situations I'm not familiar with. I think it's one of those, would you say that to a random person's face? And if you wouldn't, why type it?

 

As far as the cassocks, to me it's no different than what the Westboro Baptist Church does. They aren't out there to help women, they are out there to get on camera.

[starstruck1129]

I have my views on abortion that are probably a bit harsh, but it's my opinion.

 

1: Why did they have the baby in the first place if they don't want it (unless it was an accident)

 

2: If they didn't want a baby why try?

 

3: Only rich people can adopt, but that is unfair.

[elderberrysyrup]

I have my views on abortion that are probably a bit harsh, but it's my opinion.

 

1: Why did they have the baby in the first place if they don't want it (unless it was an accident)

 

2: If they didn't want a baby why try?

 

3: Only rich people can adopt, but that is unfair.

Welp, let me share my opinion too.

 

1. Rape? Incest? Accident? The baby turned out to have a horrible deformity that'll kill it or the mother? It's not like people bump uglies and say 'HEY LET'S HAVE A KID' and then say 5 seconds later 'oh wait nevermind'.

 

2. Because sex feels good? Because they love each other? Because a person shouldn't be suddenly not allowed to have sex just because someone they don't know in some place on the internet says so? Because they're using proper protection? Because it spices up a relationship?

 

3. I've got no opinion on this.

[St. Jimmy]

Soulless pretty much said what I wanted to say, but I'll just add a few things.

 

2: If they didn't want a baby why try?

Having sex =/= trying for a baby.

 

3: Only rich people can adopt, but that is unfair.

Yes, it is quite unfair. Which is why I think before the government even tried to deal with abortion, they should fix the adoption system. (Not that they should be sticking their noses in women's health anyway, but I know they're going to try anyway.)

[xhunter]

I have my views on abortion that are probably a bit harsh, but it's my opinion.

 

1: Why did they have the baby in the first place if they don't want it (unless it was an accident)

 

2: If they didn't want a baby why try?

 

3: Only rich people can adopt, but that is unfair.

why would you consider those harsh?

 

1. most people were not shooting for a kid so they were not trying. that could have been the last thing on their mind. most of those accidents are from failed birth control, tampered birth control, one night stands with a total stranger without knowing there history and things like that. those that were shooting for one that get a abortion can because of wrong gender, rarely, mother health at risk, child becomes a cancerous and things like that. there are a number of reasons but over half the time they did not want a child and were not shooting for a kid.

 

'why are they having it' and not 'Why did they have it' would be more precises, abortion happens when the fetus is in the womb.

 

2. they did not want the child if they got the abortion unless it gender wrong or had health problems for it or the mother. some people don't learn they are having health problems till they go to get preg. and the problems start to show up. but a lot of them are not trying for a kid.

 

3. middle class and rich people i would have to say sense i can't see the working class, poor people, being able to pay the fees for adoption or sending their children into a adoption system. and even then you have to meet all the stander and rules that the system chooses safest for the child. some places have rules where if your single or gay you can't adopt but that differ. from state to state.

[DarkLadyNyara]

1: Why did they have the baby in the first place if they don't want it (unless it was an accident)

It usually is an accident. People usually don't abort wanted pregnancis, unless something has gone horribly wrong.

 

2: If they didn't want a baby why try?

 

Having sex != trying for a baby. There are many reasons to have sex, even for people who don't want kids. And no contraceptive is perfect.

 

3: Only rich people can adopt, but that is unfair.

 

The adoption system is a mess, on so very many levels. Seriously- you could write a book. (And people have.)

[Obscure_Trash]

Agreed. I think more women would be willing to carry a child to term and then give it up for adoption instead of having an abortion if the overall system wasn't so terrible.

Well...besides the system being awful, giving up a child for adoption can be the hardest thing some women have done.

 

From the perspective of women who have or are close to someone who has given up a child for adoption Warning for some forum censored language:

Abortion Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry

Breaking the Silence

There is a very real emotional aspect to adoption that isn't really talked when it should be. I hear plenty of people who talk about how hard abortion can be for some women and then people talking about how it isn't hard for some women, but I never hear about how hard adoption can be. 3=

[Syaoransbear]

I'm pretty sure pro-lifers rely on the fact that instinctually most women are unable to give away their baby once they have it even if they are unable to care for it. All pro-lifers have to do is convince the mother to not have an abortion by convincing her that she can just give it up for adoption as if it's as easy as throwing away an old hat, then the mother gives birth to the baby, is emotionally unable to give it away, and ta-da, another woman that's been guilted into birthing and caring for a child she never wanted and can't provide for and another unwanted child born into an poor quality living situation. Pro-life agenda completed.

[Kestra15]

It sounds harsh, but, yes, I do put someone's life before emotions and mental well-being. It is possible to get counseling and help if you are going through depression.

Really? Coz twenty years after my problems started, I still can't afford counselling nor will my doctor give me any medication. My depression will cause life-long issues and I will never fully recover from it. Emotional well-being is as important as physical and sometimes more so, otherwise why would we have psych wards?

3: Only rich people can adopt, but that is unfair.

It takes a lot of money to raise a child, rich or poor to begin with. Not quite sure where you're going with this point though - is this in favour of abortion or abstinence?

Edited April 14, 2012 by Kestra15

[DarkLadyNyara]

It sounds harsh, but, yes, I do put someone's life before emotions and mental well-being.

 

Because it's not like mental illnesses ever kill anyone...oh wait.

 

It is possible to get counseling and help if you are going through depression.

 

Fun fact of the day- treatment costs money. And it doesn't work for many people. As an added bonus, many psych meds are contraindicated with pregnancy.

 

That's not even touching problems caused by the pregnancy. Or, for that matter, childbirth itself. Postpartum depression is nasty. Postpartum psychosis is even worse- ever heard of Andrea Yates?

 

I'm pretty sure pro-lifers rely on the fact that instinctually most women are unable to give away their baby once they have it even if they are unable to care for it. All pro-lifers have to do is convince the mother to not have an abortion by convincing her that she can just give it up for adoption as if it's as easy as throwing away an old hat, then the mother gives birth to the baby, is emotionally unable to give it away, and ta-da, another woman that's been guilted into birthing and caring for a child she never wanted and can't provide for and another unwanted child born into an poor quality living situation. Pro-life agenda completed.

 

That, or they feel that a woman (particularly a unwed one) has no right to be upset about giving a child up for adoption. So the difficulty of adoption is utterly ignored.

[Brite]

I'm pretty sure pro-lifers rely on the fact that instinctually most women are unable to give away their baby once they have it even if they are unable to care for it. All pro-lifers have to do is convince the mother to not have an abortion by convincing her that she can just give it up for adoption as if it's as easy as throwing away an old hat, then the mother gives birth to the baby, is emotionally unable to give it away, and ta-da, another woman that's been guilted into birthing and caring for a child she never wanted and can't provide for and another unwanted child born into an poor quality living situation. Pro-life agenda completed.

Agreed. And to me, ending something before it begins is a lot less "guilt" (if any at all) is better than abandonment to a starving hell hole. Apparently a lot of these pro-lifers are psychic because I always seem to hear some say that no matter what the woman says, she'll always have a bit of guilt after getting the abortion done. That's offensive to me.

[Dr. Paine]

I'm curious... does anyone think this type of demonstration is helpful to the pro-life position?

 

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/u.s.-semi...-prayer-invasio

 

COLUMBUS, Ohio, April 12, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Seminarians from the only Pontifical College in the U.S. have an awe-inspiring approach for confronting abortion head-on. Dressed in full regalia of a black cassock, a traditional red sash, and armed with a rosary, the seminarians descend in a powerful show of force every Saturday on a local abortion facility to confront with prayer what the seminary’s rector calls the “poison of abortion.”

 

Father James Wehner, rector of the Josephinum in Columbus, Ohio, says he believes that seminarians need to “see visibly the forces of evil at work, and respond with an act of faith in which prayer becomes the greater force.”

 

“American culture is a blessing, but it is also poisoned,” he said. “The clergy, particularly priests, need to be able to confront that poison, not run away and hide from it. That means we have to confront it head-on.”

 

I would say that couching their opposition in overtly military language isn't terribly effective and probably only serves to deepen the divide between themselves and those they're presuming to try to help, but maybe that's just me.

...

 

Why is it I keep seeing my home state on this thread? I can't see this helping the pro-life movement, safe for to inspire more fervor among those who are ALREADY pro-life. And... hell, it might push away some of the ones closer to neutral...

[Syaoransbear]

Agreed. And to me, ending something before it begins is a lot less "guilt" (if any at all) is better than abandonment to a starving hell hole. Apparently a lot of these pro-lifers are psychic because I always seem to hear some say that no matter what the woman says, she'll always have a bit of guilt after getting the abortion done. That's offensive to me.

It's funny because most pro-lifers have never had an abortion yet they act like they know for certain how every woman is going to feel after having one .

[Brite]

 

Warning, graphic.

 

This is stuff that can go on in places where unwanted children, sometimes even a child in foster temorarily in this case are placed. All of this torture > abortion?

 

I've tired explaining stuff like this to pro-birthers, they either simply don't care (way to be "pro-life") or pretend that no such things happen and laugh at it.

 

Edit: Adding a small story, my neighbor's foster kid from three years ago was a victim of a bad foster home when he was taken and bounced from home to home. It haunts my neighbor to this day that he couldn't save him from CPS. I nearly cry when I think of all the possible unwanted kids going to this fate if abortion was abolished everywhere. I shivered.

Edited April 14, 2012 by GhostChilli

[Syaoransbear]

If pro-lifers truly wanted to reduce abortions they would be better off offering support and services to unprepared mothers rather than trying to guilt unprepared mothers. The whole 'ruining-your-whole-life' aspect of an unplanned pregnancy is a lot more daunting than a bunch of religious people telling you that some supernatural being is going to get you when you die in like 70 years. If having a child wasn't totally, dramatically life changing to the point where many young mothers end up dropping out of school, maybe there would be less incentive to have an abortion.

 

I guess sincerely helping women in need and bettering the lives of them and their children doesn't get you as much publicity as waving some signs around and harassing people who go by.

[skinst]

I almost couldn't watch the third part. T_T I feel so terribly sorry for those kids, and the mothers who have to live with guilt they should have never had to endure.

[Vocalia]

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, but I don't post anything as I prefer not to touch a subject as tender as this one. This news might or might not be relevant to this entire discussion, but it serves to show an extreme side to adoption and what POTENTIALLY could happen to other children out there.

[Sorrowgrave]

I'm pretty sure pro-lifers rely on the fact that instinctually most women are unable to give away their baby once they have it even if they are unable to care for it. All pro-lifers have to do is convince the mother to not have an abortion by convincing her that she can just give it up for adoption as if it's as easy as throwing away an old hat, then the mother gives birth to the baby, is emotionally unable to give it away, and ta-da, another woman that's been guilted into birthing and caring for a child she never wanted and can't provide for and another unwanted child born into an poor quality living situation. Pro-life agenda completed.

Dido on the most part.

 

After my biological grandmother had my mother and her twin she dumbed them on her mother in law. who with her husband my great grandfather had to raise them.

 

mom still has issues from this abandonment

[NixAyum]

It's funny because most pro-lifers have never had an abortion yet they act like they know for certain how every woman is going to feel after having one .

Ah, where's that link for the site talking about protesters who got abortions, something like "the only moral abortion is mine" or something.