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@AlisonsPrayer

I read your post about your experiences and I can't even start to understand what exactly you went through. I just hope that you have sufficient support and that your work with other victims gives you strength and energy to go on with you life as well as you can.

It is a well known fallacy that "time heals every wound". Unfortunately it doesn't for all people. As it was mentioned before - each and every person is an individual and thus a universe all in hirself, thus there are no standard solutions that work for all.

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4 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@AlisonsPrayer

I read your post about your experiences and I can't even start to understand what exactly you went through. I just hope that you have sufficient support and that your work with other victims gives you strength and energy to go on with you life as well as you can.

It is a well known fallacy that "time heals every wound". Unfortunately it doesn't for all people. As it was mentioned before - each and every person is an individual and thus a universe all in hirself, thus there are no standard solutions that work for all.

 

My observations as well. Some find ways to cope, some never do. 

 

It took me a long time to overcome my demons from my experiences. And I definitely have phobias where sex is involved, due to those experiences. But the one thing it never destroyed was my capability to feel compassion for others. In fact, worked hard to not let what was done to me, view others as less or the enemy cause of what was done to me. Reason I chose to help other victims. Even though I couldn't stop what was done to them, I could be there to listen and support them in their own roads to recovery. 

Lost my mother last year, and unfortunately her death left a lot of unanswered questions. While going through her stuff, found more pictures our step father took, when I'd thought I'd destroyed them all decades ago. Still haven't found the movie films he took, and more then likely won't thanks to my half-brother. He went into melt down after the funeral in denial of hearing what his father did to us kids, so we're not talking anymore. 

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25 minutes ago, Astreya said:

I'm currently working in psychological support, and I guess you would not believe what cases I have encountered by now during that. There are indeed women who were so damaged by rape and violence that they decided to take their rage and aggression out at the children, just to be able to punish *someone* for their suffering.

 

Exactly. (It wasn't my job, but I did work with a doctor for many years and talked to many very upset patients. I also spent time in a psych hospital. How some of my fellow patients were still alive was beyond my understanding. But it was quite clear that they were not about to "get over it" any time soon.) But I take your point that some people take out their rage on innocent children. All the more reason to allow them to have an abortion and not subject a child to that.

 

17 minutes ago, AlicornsPrayer said:

It's real easy to sit on the outside looking in, saying 'well, get over it, I did' when you aren't that person or experiencing their exact emotions and ghosts....What may have worked for you, doesn't mean at all it's going to work for someone else. To assume such is ego on your own part, not understanding of the other person's circumstances or abilities to cope with situations unique to themselves due to it's about their specific mental and emotional response of their specific experience, not your own. 
 

Abortion is a personal experience, and the reasons differ for every woman, suited to what is needed to help them live their lives in the manner they see fit. What you'd choose or not choose, isn't basis of what others should or shouldn't choose, because their situations and strengths are different despite similarities you imagine exist. 

 

Precisely this.

 

10 minutes ago, AlicornsPrayer said:

BINGO! That's been my experience as well as a survivor and working with victims of sexual abuse or domestic violence. I can sit and listen to their stories, see similarities to what I experienced....But on a mental level, how I coped with what was done to me to how they cope? Like comparing apples to oranges in most cases. And instead of telling them HOW to cope or deal with it, the best thing is simply to listen and allow them to find the way of coping on their own. To support their choices, not condemn them because their choice may differ from my own choices....

 

(y)

 

5 minutes ago, Astreya said:

It is a well known fallacy that "time heals every wound". Unfortunately it doesn't for all people. As it was mentioned before - each and every person is an individual and thus a universe all in hirself, thus there are no standard solutions that work for all.

 

And we have to be able to make the choices that we, as individuals, need to make to survive. Even if they are choices that are anathema to others.

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8 minutes ago, AlicornsPrayer said:

It took me a long time to overcome my demons from my experiences. And I definitely have phobias where sex is involved, due to those experiences. But the one thing it never destroyed was my capability to feel compassion for others. In fact, worked hard to not let what was done to me, view others as less or the enemy cause of what was done to me. Reason I chose to help other victims. Even though I couldn't stop what was done to them, I could be there to listen and support them in their own roads to recovery. 


Lost my mother last year, and unfortunately her death left a lot of unanswered questions. While going through her stuff, found more pictures our step father took, when I'd thought I'd destroyed them all decades ago. Still haven't found the movie films he took, and more then likely won't thanks to my half-brother. He went into melt down after the funeral in denial of hearing what his father did to us kids, so we're not talking anymore. 

I am glad to hear that you still retained your compassion,as this is not a given after such a horrible trauma. Your brother seems to have chosen the way of suppressing the memories of things that were impossible to grasp for his consciousness as coping strategy. It might work until at one day there could be a danger of these experiences breaking out uncontrollably and him becoming a psychological time bomb. Unfortunately no one can force him to search for a therapists when he is an adult, but it appears as if he could use one.

 

8 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Exactly. (It wasn't my job, but I did work with a doctor for many years and talked to many very upset patients. I also spent time in a psych hospital. How some of my fellow patients were still alive was beyond my understanding. But it was quite clear that they were not about to "get over it" any time soon.) But I take your point that some people take out their rage on innocent children. All the more reason to allow them to have an abortion and not subject a child to that.

 

And we have to be able to make the choices that we, as individuals, need to make to survive. Even if they are choices that are anathema to others.

Unfortunately there is a long tradition that abused children can turn into abusers themselves when they grow up. One can only thank the mental strength of those like AlicornsPrayer who use their experiences to become a force of good that try to help others with similar experiences. But unfortunately this is not always the case, and sometimes the aggression that can arise from such an experience can break out and then get directed at other persons, particularly those who are seen as weaker and thus easier targets.

 

Indeed. I absolutely think that every person should be able to make their own decision about their body, particularly as it shapes their whole life.

 

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4 minutes ago, Astreya said:

I am glad to hear that you still retained your compassion,as this is not a given after such a horrible trauma. Your brother seems to have chosen the way of suppressing the memories of things that were impossible to grasp for his consciousness as coping strategy. It might work until at one day there could be a danger of these experiences breaking out uncontrollably and him becoming a psychological time bomb. Unfortunately no one can force him to search for a therapists when he is an adult, but it appears as if he could use one.

 

Unfortunately there is a long tradition that abused children can turn into abusers themselves when they grow up. One can only thank the mental strength of those like AlicornsPrayer who use their experiences to become a force of good that try to help others with similar experiences. But unfortunately this is not always the case, and sometimes the aggression that can arise from such an experience can break out and then get directed at other persons, particularly those who are seen as weaker and thus easier targets.

 

Indeed. I absolutely think that every person should be able to make their own decision about their body, particularly as it shapes their whole life.

 

 

 

No, my half brother didn't experience what we did, hence his denial we were sexually abused by his father. Our stepfather didn't abuse him, cause that was his own blood. Me and my two brothers though, wasn't 'his blood', so the reason he had no problem with doing what he did. And because our baby brother never 'saw' the abuse or experienced it due to his being the blood relation of our abuser? He says we're all lying about it, just trying to smear 'the good name of his father'. 

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@AlicornsPrayer

I'm sorry, I didn't realise it was your half-brother. So this is doubly horrible for you - not only experiencing the abuse, but also not being believed. 

I assume you don't have enough proof to start a lawsuit against your abuser? It is such a horrible injustice that such sick monsters mostly get away with the horrors they inflict on their victims.

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1 minute ago, Astreya said:

@AlicornsPrayer

I'm sorry, I didn't realise it was your half-brother. So this is doubly horrible for you - not only experiencing the abuse, but also not being believed. 

I assume you don't have enough proof to start a lawsuit against your abuser? It is such a horrible injustice that such sick monsters mostly get away with the horrors they inflict on their victims.

 

No, we had the proof. In fact, in one of my suicide attempts (tried to hang myself during school time), the state stepped in to remove the 3 of us. But our stepfather had always warned that if we told anyone what was happening, we'd all be split up, never see one another again, etc...And the state started to talk about doing just that. Putting us in different foster homes, separating us. So we retracted the story, said we made it all up, cause we were all we had to depend on. 

We had also agreed, thinking that our mother didn't know what was happening, that it was best to not tell her or our baby brother. To protect them from the shame. Also a bit of fear there too, that our mother would hate and blame us, cause as far as she was concerned? Our stepfather was the greatest man alive. 

Oh, there was family that knew it was happening....But this was also during the time when such things weren't spoken of in 'polite society', so was just one of those 'family secrets never talked about' or addressed publically. Much different era then today, in that handling of abuse. Our grandmother did her best by having me come down to her home in Mobile during the summers, so I'd have a few months of respite from the abuse. She also did her best to instill in me a fighting spirit and sense of survival and independence during that time. Although to get to stay with her those months, cost me dearly when my stepfather drove me down there....

 

Know the old saying 'Gas, grass, or ass....Nobody rides for free.'? Well, you can guess how I had to pay for that 10 hour drive to my grandmother's. 

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@AlicornsPrayer

So that another case of the cruelty that is inflicted to the victims not only by the abuser, but also by the others in power. I can't tell you how fed up I am when I am told how the perpetrators manage to force their victims into silence by such threats. I wish there was some cosmic reckoning waiting for such people, but alas, I have little hope as the universe is unfeeling and indifferent.  Have you considered writing a book about your experiences? It might be helpful for you and others. And I am glad you had your grandmother, even if you had to endure torture to get to her.

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I never want a child. I'll try to get rid of a pregnancy if I get raped. Why? I'm treated... pretty badly emotionally. I'm nothing but the r-word to a lotta people I run into IRL. And as a result, I've lost the ability to really *care* about a dependent. My family a dog who begs for food. I kick him away out of habit. I get rages. I could easily become just as much of a monster to a child, even my own flesh and blood. I can't get myself to care about "cute" creatures.

 

After all, my own flesh and blood believes it's okay to scream at me even beyond when I panic and scream because I instinctually raise my voixe because they're loud, physically corner me, physically drag me around, urge me to just end it. And my parents act so nice, no one would believe the r-word *****. Yes, I'm disabled and prickly. (And yes - I was wanted but came out deaf with dying eyes.)

Edited by DuskOfTheStars

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42 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@AlicornsPrayer

So that another case of the cruelty that is inflicted to the victims not only by the abuser, but also by the others in power. I can't tell you how fed up I am when I am told how the perpetrators manage to force their victims into silence by such threats. I wish there was some cosmic reckoning waiting for such people, but alas, I have little hope as the universe is unfeeling and indifferent.  Have you considered writing a book about your experiences? It might be helpful for you and others. And I am glad you had your grandmother, even if you had to endure torture to get to her.

 

 

Oh, there was a reckoning for him, and was happy that I lived to see it....

He ended up with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, and ended up in a care facility. And the staff wasn't very 'caring' of his needs. In the end, he got to experience what we did, if not in quite the same way. Because those in charge of his care, didn't give him the consideration or care he needed, but what they thought his 'less then' afforded him. And I got my first nightmare free sleep the day we buried him. And got to enjoy that till finding those pictures last year....

 

Still got a box full of pictures to go through, after destroying dozens of them in the pictures we brought home after my mother's funeral...I'll go through them all eventually, but can only do it a bit at a time for my own peace of mind. It's stomach turning to be viewing pictures of my children growing up or actual happy moments of my life, then get surprised by one of those pictures of the abuse. Hubby's offered to help go through them, he saw a couple and nearly threw up as well as got very upset....But told him no, cause it's shameful enough he saw those few, and there's possibly worse in that mess of loose pictures I'd rather him not see.  

 

And no, not interested in writing a book about it. Instead, find it more helpful and therapeutic to just discuss it with others who need to know they're not alone. One-on-one, cause those that need to hear that they're not alone, will cross my path and I theirs. 

Edited by AlicornsPrayer
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6 minutes ago, DuskOfTheStars said:

I never want a child. I'll try to get rid of a pregnancy if I get raped. Why? I'm treated... pretty badly emotionally. I'm nothing but the r-word

 And as a result, I've lost the ability to really *care* about a dependent. My family a dog who begs for food. I kick him away out of havit. I get rages. I could easily become just as much of a monster to a childv, even my own glesh and blood.

 

After all, my own flesh and blood believes it's okay to scream at me even when I lanic, physically corner me, physically drag me around, urge me to just end it. And my parents act so nice, no one would believe the r-word *****. Yes, I'm disabled and prickly.

 

 

((((((HUGZ)))))))) If nobody else tells you this, let me do so.....

 

Love you, and you matter. 

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@AlicornsPrayer

Then the universe for once was not as uncaring as it usually is.

 

As for the rest of the pictures - maybe it would be an idea to consult a therapist who could help you to go through the ordeal? A person with a certain professional distance might be able to steady you better than someone too close to you.

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13 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@AlicornsPrayer

Then the universe for once was not as uncaring as it usually is.

 

As for the rest of the pictures - maybe it would be an idea to consult a therapist who could help you to go through the ordeal? A person with a certain professional distance might be able to steady you better than someone too close to you.

 

 

Nah, I can handle it. I learned a long time ago to face my demons and not be beaten by them. As hard as it will be seeing more of those pictures, it'll also help me on my personal road to overcoming what was done. I bounce back pretty darn good, and stronger for it. I just know not to try and do it all at once, but in small steps. :D

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5 minutes ago, Astreya said:

@AlicornsPrayer

I'm really happy to hear that you found a coping mechanism for yourself! I wish you all the strength and happiness for your further life!

 

 

As my grandmother always said....May be able to kick me down, but keeping me down is a whole different story. And I've had a good life, and looking forward to wonderful twilight years. Managed to make my dream of being a farmer come true, got some great friends who accept me warts and all, and happy with who I am. Outspoken, blunt, but will move the earth to help those in need and never step down from a challenge. 

 

Life isn't always easy, but there's never a dull moment and always look forward to what's around the next bend of my personal journey. :D And if I can help a few people along the way, then life is good. 

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Late but I NEEDED to say this to Laryal: if everyone was strong enough to get over their traumas and issues my dad would still be alive. But he is not. If people were all strong enough my sister would not have lost two of her closest friends in middle school. So, sorry, I simply cannot agree at all that anyone can get over their problems. There are countless people not here today because they could not. 

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On 8/28/2018 at 10:03 AM, Fuzzbucket said:

 

And I cringe to recall that I would not be posting here today had I not had an abortion at 19. That's the thing with all this. There is no "one solution fits all" answer to this That's why choice is so very important. You would never have an abortion - I absolutely respect that. But you don't have the right to tell others that because you feel that way (and so does your friend) we who need an abortion should be denied that choice. Your choice fits you; mine fits me. We each have the right to our own opinion and our own moral standpoint.

I could say the same for the others on here as well so it can go both ways talking about the darker part i did here..Well not feeling good got sick still am so logging out an go on with your chat i am done couse players are accusing me of trying to make others feel thye same as i do.You like i said are doing the same telling those who do not think it is right that it is right.Now before i log out what is this fetus do you carry anything other than a baby human? Then what do you think you are doing to that other human? think on this i will not answer no more  cause like i said very sick.Had enhuff strenght to reply right now need to go lay down.

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You can believe what you believe; others can believe as they do. I am not telling you you are wrong to feel as you do; I am telling you that I don't have to agree with you, and I don't have to see abortion as murder. An embryo is not a human being. It will not be one until it can survive outside the womb. And to force someone to carry to term a foetus that will die within hours of birth is cruel.

 

You ARE saying that abortion is always wrong. You have never said once why you believe that a clump of cells is worth more than the life of the woman it is living off.

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On 8/27/2018 at 11:56 PM, Fuzzbucket said:

On the other hand there are: Women asking for an abortion very early on who have been hampered every step of the way (Northern Ireland is  a case in point); women who genuinely didn't know they were pregnant - when I worked for a doctor I knew a couple who hadn't known they were pregnant till they went into labour !; and - horribly - there are conditions that can only be detected late in pregnancy - conditions which mean the baby would probably not survive anyway, or would be permanently damaged in ways that would mean it had no quality of life at all. It is a tough road; that's why I find rigid laws on precise dates when abortions should be allowed unacceptable.

 

Suppose you had your 20 week scan and it detected anencephaly. Which cannot be detected, on the whole, before the 16 week scan. The baby will not survive more than a matter of hours. I know what I'd do. Ghastly though it would be.

That's why I mentioned exceptions for dire circumstances. I honestly don't know what I'd do in such a situation. 

 

53 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You can believe what you believe; others can believe as they do. I am not telling you you are wrong to feel as you do; I am telling you that I don't have to agree with you, and I don't have to see abortion as murder. An embryo is not a human being. It will not be one until it can survive outside the womb. And to force someone to carry to term a foetus that will die within hours of birth is cruel.

A fetus, however, that's already able to survive (with the help of modern medicine)... This is why I have trouble accepting late-stage abortions.

 

And, no matter how you spin it, abortion is killing of an unborn life. Otherwise, you could argue that a newborn isn't to be considered an actual life because it isn't able to live on its own without proper care. So, saying that "an embryo is not a human being" is a very fine line to draw, much less walk.

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An embryo below 12 weeks CERTAINLY isn't. Sorry, but no.

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1 hour ago, Laryal said:

I could say the same for the others on here as well so it can go both ways talking about the darker part i did here..Well not feeling good got sick still am so logging out an go on with your chat i am done couse players are accusing me of trying to make others feel thye same as i do.You like i said are doing the same telling those who do not think it is right that it is right.Now before i log out what is this fetus do you carry anything other than a baby human? Then what do you think you are doing to that other human? think on this i will not answer no more  cause like i said very sick.Had enhuff strenght to reply right now need to go lay down.

 

Nobody has said that you can't disagree with abortion. Everyone that's replied to you, has only said that although you disagree with abortion, doesn't give you the right to say they can't have one. That your opinion is yours, but only applicable to yourself, not to other people. Period. 

You're the one that keeps saying that women who have abortions are murderers, when they're not. You're the one who keeps saying that those that support women who choose that option 'support murder'. You're the one that falsely associated abortion with genocide and mass murder....And people have calmly explained to you why your labeling of such is incorrect.. The fact that you don't like that others point that out, in no way says that you aren't allowed to not agree to having an abortion. Just that your personal feelings don't and can't be applied to every single other person's experiences or choice to allow women who think differently to choose to have one or not themselves.

A fetus isn't a 'baby human'. It's a POTENTIAL human. It isn't a human, thus a baby, till it's actually breathing outside of the womb. Until then, despite how much you dislike it? It's nothing more then a clump of cells and a parasite living off a human host till it's expelled from that human host. No differently then any other animal who is impregnated or lays eggs, of which it's possible offspring may or may not exist to term or survive birth/hatching. 

The same goes for your 'I had this bad experience and got over it, so everyone else can too.' attitude....You've had a number of people explain that simply isn't the case in many instances. Of how coping with tragic events in their lives or the lives of others they know/knew turned out so horribly different because not everyone 'gets over it' in similar situations....And you once again are playing the victim, ignoring what was actually said, instead giving your alternative interpretation to be another attack on yourself when no such thing was done. Once again, rather then responding rationally, choosing an emotional reaction instead. 

All you keep offering is emotional reasons, nothing of a factual nature. And then get your panties in a wad when people point out the flaws of your arguments. Sorry you're not well. Hope you feel better soon. 

 

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

You can believe what you believe; others can believe as they do. I am not telling you you are wrong to feel as you do; I am telling you that I don't have to agree with you, and I don't have to see abortion as murder. An embryo is not a human being. It will not be one until it can survive outside the womb. And to force someone to carry to term a foetus that will die within hours of birth is cruel.

 

You ARE saying that abortion is always wrong. You have never said once why you believe that a clump of cells is worth more than the life of the woman it is living off.

 

This is exactly the gist of the problem....Your insistence that abortion is always wrong, never considering what the other woman needs for her to be mentally and physically healthy, isn't the same thing you need or want.

 

I hope one day society won't need abortion. That every pregnancy is a wanted one, that every pregnancy is a healthy one for the mother and child born. That every parent to be can be able to have a child because they have financial stability and good education that affords them to plan families....But until finances aren't a worry for most in our society so women can plan families without condemnation or proverty, until we have a proper health plan in place that allows women to afford suitable birth control (I'd prefer free) as well as comprehensive health care without interference from the religious right, that society is educated with real sex education not abstinence, when birth defects aren't a part of the equation of pregnancy, when women don't die as a result of pregnancy or complications at birth, and the rape culture rampant in our society is eliminated? Then in the meantime? I want every woman to be able to have access to safe abortions period....

Because denying women abortions doesn't stop them. It just means that more women die from unsafe abortions. Remove the need for abortions through the methods mentioned above, then less abortions period.  

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220px-Human_Embryo.JPG 6 week old embryo. It has a working heart since day 23/24 (after conception), although it's not quite as complex as that of an adult human. It already has a corda dorsalis that's developing into a spine and already contains nerves which will become the spinal chord. Even though it already has visible eyes, it's still about one to two weeks away from having optical nerves. You can also see arms and can make out the hands and even fingers (if you look at a bigger pic, which can be found here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo#/media/File:Human_Embryo.JPG) . Same goes for the legs, with paddle-like feet and toes. (Although, admittedly, fingers and toes are still connected by tissue.) It's liver is already in the midst of its development, which will finish two weeks later. This embryo already has an intestinal system in its early developmental stages.

 

22 minutes ago, AlicornsPrayer said:

A fetus isn't a 'baby human'. It's a POTENTIAL human. It isn't a human, thus a baby, till it's actually breathing outside of the womb.

How and why does "breathing outside the womb" mark the difference between human and not human? And what does that say about late-stage abortions of (otherwise healthy) babies that are able to survive, given proper medical care? What about preterm babies? Where is the difference?

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23 minutes ago, olympe said:

220px-Human_Embryo.JPG 6 week old embryo. It has a working heart since day 23/24 (after conception), although it's not quite as complex as that of an adult human. It already has a corda dorsalis that's developing into a spine and already contains nerves which will become the spinal chord. Even though it already has visible eyes, it's still about one to two weeks away from having optical nerves. You can also see arms and can make out the hands and even fingers (if you look at a bigger pic, which can be found here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embryo#/media/File:Human_Embryo.JPG) . Same goes for the legs, with paddle-like feet and toes. (Although, admittedly, fingers and toes are still connected by tissue.) It's liver is already in the midst of its development, which will finish two weeks later. This embryo already has an intestinal system in its early developmental stages.

 

How and why does "breathing outside the womb" mark the difference between human and not human? And what does that say about late-stage abortions of (otherwise healthy) babies that are able to survive, given proper medical care? What about preterm babies? Where is the difference?

 

A pre-term baby is able to survive outside the womb, albeit often with extensive medical help. That embryo coudln't. No matter how hard anyone tried.

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That embryo is not able to feel or even sense itself or the world around it. It has no consciousness, no ability to feel pain, nothing that would actually qualify it to be a viable human being yet. Once a fetus is able to survive outside the womb, including those that are put into incubators, it becomes a baby human. At the embryo and fetus stage it’s still very possible for it to not survive and be miscarried. It dies almost the moment it becomes detached because it can no longer leech nutrients and is currently unable to grow or survive any other way but the way of a parasite. A baby is not the same as an embryo or a fetus because a baby can survive outside the womb, an embryo and fetus cannot.

Edited by Cecona

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34 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

A pre-term baby is able to survive outside the womb, albeit often with extensive medical help. That embryo coudln't. No matter how hard anyone tried.

That still doesn't answer my questions in the last part of the post. Where's the difference between an unwanted baby that got aborted at a late stage in pregnancy, when it's already viable, and a wanted preterm baby?

Also, I'm well aware that, from a biological standpoint, an embryo has no consciousness. However, even a born baby has no sense of self, either. Because that only develops around the time a baby learns to move from one place to another.

 

Also, a fetus (that's still called a fetus) around week 23/24 has a 50% survival rate if born prematurely.

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