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It *is* OTC, but I think you have to ask the pharmacist for it, like some of the cold medicines.

Many people also have the experience of being harassed by the pharmacist when they ask for it. If I remember correctly, in at least some states, pharmacists are allowed to deny you the medication based on their religious beliefs. As well, Plan B doesn't work if you are over 176 lbs and there are lower chances of it being effective at 165 lbs. I believe all progestin-only emergency contraception has similar limits. Ella is one that may work for heavier people, AFAIK.

 

But since Plan B has come up again, I'll pass this on here: Plan B offers a $10 off coupon that can be printed out at any time: http://www.planbonestep.com/coupon.aspx

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If I remember correctly, in at least some states, pharmacists are allowed to deny you the medication based on their religious beliefs.

In the UK an individual pharmacist can refuse to sell such post-intercourse contraceptives based on their religious beliefs, but must inform you as to where the nearest pharmacist that will dispense such products is. That includes getting another pharmacist at the same pharmacy to dispense the drug.

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I believe that is the womans choice to get an abortion.

 

also I found a funny photo of facebook (it may be inappropriate for some): it says if abortion is murder them a blow job is cannibalism.......

Edited by zorua9

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I just saw that commercial for One Step again...they said it was right in the aisle. Maybe this is something new?

 

http://www.pharmacist.com/plan-b-one-step-now-store-shelves

 

http://thestir.cafemom.com/healthy_living/...n_b_now_sold_on

 

I'd say being able to get it off the shelves is good news.

Edited by MedievalMystic

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OK, this topic has been written in for quite a while, so I'll just say what I think of it:

 

Of course that having sex without protection is nobody's fault but the people who were having sex, but not allowing that girl/woman to have an abortion because they have to face their mistakes and deal with the consequences is very cruel, especially to the newborn child.

I used to be against abortion because my perspective on it was that it's close to murder, but I'm not so harsh about it anymore. Yes, I think that every unborn child should have a chance to live, but is it really wise to make someone give birth if that child won't get the love that it deserves, or at least a normal surrounding to live and grow up in?

My childhood friend gave birth at eighteen as a consequence of an unplanned pregnancy from a relationship with her now ex-boyfriend. The little girl is two years old now and she is doing an amazing job as a mother, but not everyone can handle it the way she did. Besides, she has an extremely supportive father that even raised her alone after her mother had abandoned her while she was a newborn herself.

Many unplanned pregnancies happen during the teenage years (just take a look at "16 and pregnant" and "Teen mom" and you'll see that it's no joke), at the time when young parents are still in high school, with no jobs, careers, and mostly no serious ideas about life and what they want to do with it in the future. And then a baby comes and they have to give up on so much to raise that baby, and in many cases it's not even done properly. It's very unlikely that those parents will love their baby enough because they can always see it as a setback or something that came in the way of their youth and careless life. It's also very unlikely that they will have enough time and patience to educate themselves and find proper jobs, create successful careers that will help them raise that baby the way it should be. Why give birth to a child if you still haven't grown up yourself?

Then you might say: "Give birth, and if you don't want to keep the baby, give it up for adoption." I used to say that too, but little of those kids actually live to get adopted by a loving couple or family and get a happy, definite home. You would be surprised by how many children are not even taken care of, maybe even abused in some orphanages, they may even be kicked out in the street where they live one hell of an existence (because let's be clear, that cannot be called a life), and they have no future ahead of them.

These are the reasons I think abortion shouldn't be judged so harshly. What is the purpose of life if the ones who are meant to love you unconditionally don't want to or can't love you and help you live and grow up? It's much less struggle for the baby, let's think for them. Is it better to stop a pregnancy while it's still possible or force yourself to give birth to a child who is going to live every day wishing it had never been born? sad.gif

 

When you sum it up, it would be - You shouldn't have a baby if you are not mentally ready to be a parent because that child will not have a proper life.

Second, if a pregnancy is a result of a rape, I would absolutely never judge a girl or woman who'd want to abort that baby. It's not the child's fault, of course, but it is pretty rare that a raped woman can love a child she knows it came from her rapist. A child who would be treated as a remain of a monster that had attacked someone innocent and ruined their life is very unlikely to ever be loved and will always feel like a mistake or the main reason of its mother's misery. Is that a life people want for such a child?

 

And if a child is severely deformed or diagnosed with a syndrome before birth, I myself would advise getting an abortion immediately! I don't understand beliefs that say how a child is necessarily a gift. No, it's not! A child who is so ill and deformed will never have the proper understanding of life, it will struggle with series of health issues, and their parents will suffer watching that child being severely ill or even slowly dying instead of playing and living like its contemporaries.

If it isn't diagnosed, yet born that way, of course it shouldn't be killed (BECAUSE IT'S MURDER), but if its life would be worse than death then why let it suffer?

Edited by *Silver Fox*

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It is the woman's choice if she wants an abortion or not. It wouldn't be right for me to have a child. I have so many health problems I could pass on as does my boyfriend. I would never condemn another person to that. That is only one reason to consider an abortion. On top of that I take many meds, some of which could cause birth defects. Not everyone can go through pregnancy, or wants to. And no matter how careful you are accidents can happen. If you outlaw abortions people will just get them done illegally. And that would bring us back to the back alley abortions and women getting sick or dieing.

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And if a child is severely deformed or diagnosed with a syndrome before birth, I myself would advise getting an abortion immediately! I don't understand beliefs that say how a child is necessarily a gift. No, it's not! A child who is so ill and deformed will never have the proper understanding of life, it will struggle with series of health issues, and their parents will suffer watching that child being severely ill or even slowly dying instead of playing and living like its contemporaries.

If it isn't diagnosed, yet born that way, of course it shouldn't be killed (BECAUSE IT'S MURDER), but if its life would be worse than death then why let it suffer?

 

I'm going to ignore severe deformations for now, but a syndrome should not necessarily be a death sentence. Multitudes of people who have syndromes, disabilities, disorders, illnesses, etc. can and do live happy lives. There are definitely more serious illnesses and health issues, I'm not debating that, but not everything is a death sentence.

 

If someone can't handle that, it's fine, but I would hope people who are trying for a child are prepared to possibly give birth to a child that may not have the easiest life due to physical or mental disability.

 

I also think it is scary here that you used 'they' to refer to parents but 'it' to refer to disabled children. Disabled people are still people deserving of respect. D:

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Yeah, I mean, some disabilities and stuff are perfectly survivable and have a pretty good quality of life if the parents are reasonably prepared to handle it. Some things would be pretty horrific to NOT abort, like when it literally has no brain (I feel okay calling that situation 'it because no brain = no person), but others... aren't a big deal. Like, all but the worst cases of autism are perfectly manageable and if someone could hypothetically tell they'd have an autistic baby and aborted just because of that and no other contributing factors, I'd wonder if they were mature enough to be trying for a baby in the first place.

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Like, all but the worst cases of autism are perfectly manageable and if someone could hypothetically tell they'd have an autistic baby and aborted just because of that and no other contributing factors, I'd wonder if they were mature enough to be trying for a baby in the first place.

 

Some people are not equipped to deal with anything but a "normal" child. Autism is manageable, yes, but that doesn't make it easy or like raising a non-autistic child.

 

That's not say they should be immediately aborted, but not everyone is equipped to handle autism or other disabilities, either mental or physical, whether severe or not. And sometimes parents may be scared witless by literature on the problem or by witnessing other children with similar disabilities, etc, and they may not want to try after that.

 

I applaud people who are able to deal with this kind of thing, because I'm not - I can barely handle "normal" children who aren't even mine.

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Yeah, that's fair and understandable and all, but I'd hope if they were PLANNING to have a kid they'd be prepared for their kid to not be a perfect ball of giggles and rainbows and joy.

Edited by TheCompleteAnimorph

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I'm going to input something here.

 

Can we stop referring to people who have the ability to get pregnant as "women"? Not all of us are women. Some of us are trans guys, and some of us are nonbinary/genderqueer. And just referring to the cisgender women in the thread is a bit offputting, especially because there are aspects to DFAB trans/NB/GQ people that cis women may not experience, such as dysphoria. I know I sure as heck would not want to get pregnant just because of the dysphoria I would encounter. And I don't even get it that bad sometimes. For a person who experiences such awful dysphoria that they would quite literally not be able to get out of bed and go shower, I don't even think I'd want to know the measures they'd go to just to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy because they can't get an abortion and are even more dysphoric.

 

@TheCompleteAnimorph: Like Infinis said, just because something is "manageable" doesn't mean it is manageable to everyone. A person who is very young mentally probably wouldn't be able to handle raising an autistic child, for example. And some people wouldn't want to raise anything but a neurotypical, abled, cisgender, straight child. Imo, those people shouldn't be parents (if you want a kid, love them unconditionally dammit) but there's nothing to stop them. Abortion is not something that people just play around with, either. If someone wants an abortion, let them have it - what seems like a bad reason to abort to you, could be a very good reason for someone else.

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I never said I'd stop them either. I'm just saying that yeah, if they aren't prepared for anything but the PERFECT NORMAL CHILD, maybe they're not ready for children and shouldn't be trying? Maybe?

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I never said I'd stop them either. I'm just saying that yeah, if they aren't prepared for anything but the PERFECT ~~NORMAL~~ CHILD, maybe they're not ready for children and shouldn't be trying? Maybe?

^ I'm not into controlling anyone's choices. But there's a lot of anti-disabled sentiment and if finding out your child would be born with a disability convinces you to get an abortion simply because they would be disabled, then that's something you should evaluate. Anybody who wants to be a parent should be prepared to have a neuroatypical, disabled, queer, nonbinary, etc. child.

 

EDIT: But also, can we stop referring to neurotypical people as "normal"? It has some - er - gross connotations. I get why people are using it but it helps back up anti-disabled sentiments.

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Can we stop referring to people who have the ability to get pregnant as "women"? Not all of us are women. Some of us are trans guys, and some of us are nonbinary/genderqueer.

That is why I typically try to refer to them as "females" or even "fertile females" despite using the word "female" feeling a bit odd outside of talking about animals, purely biological perspective and legal documents. Though you could argue that pregnancy is a purely biological phenomenon (do what you want, we are not sea-horses and human males cannot experience anything akin to pregnancy at this day and age) and as such the use of "female"/"intersex"/"male" over gender-labels like man/woman/et cetera is justified in this context.

 

I'm just saying that yeah, if they aren't prepared for anything but the PERFECT NORMAL CHILD, maybe they're not ready for children and shouldn't be trying?
It can be a hard choice to make in any case. Often, it is not even about loving the child, but finances, trying to determine whether it is best for the fetus to become a person or never even become anything, and above all, the sheer unpredictability of many anomalies. I believe (from what I've heard and read) that most of the less physically apparent anomalies aren't very easy to notice unless you are specifically looking for them to begin with, and then it can be hard to determine the exact future development of the anomaly. And if there is no telling how severe something will end up being...

 

For instance, I personally have seen both the "light" end and the worst of autism spectrum - and while the "light" high-functioning versions are by all accounts perfectly normal people who I couldn't imagine any other way and you could walk past on the street and only realize that they are on the autism spectrum once you've been talking to them for a while (and that is when you know what high-functioning autism looks like), then the strongly manifested version of autism can indeed be a rather disheartening (given a teenager who is still wearing diapers, hides under a bed from strangers, is terrified of anything vehicle-like (but especially ride-on lawn mowers), can cover their ears, curl up to a ball and start rocking back and forth in the middle of the street due to being startled, still hasn't learned to read or write despite all the efforts, and that's only the beginning).

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That is why I typically try to refer to them as "females" or even "fertile females" despite using the word "female" feeling a bit odd outside of talking about animals, purely biological perspective and legal documents. Though you could argue that pregnancy is a purely biological phenomenon (do what you want, we are not sea-horses and human males cannot experience anything akin to pregnancy at this day and age) and as such the use of "female"/"intersex"/"male" over gender-labels like man/woman/et cetera is justified in this context.

Pregnant persons or people who can get pregnant is much better. I know it's longer, but it really doesn't take tooo long to type.

 

Female still means woman.

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I never said I'd stop them either. I'm just saying that yeah, if they aren't prepared for anything but the PERFECT NORMAL CHILD, maybe they're not ready for children and shouldn't be trying? Maybe?

As someone who grew up and pretty much helped raise a mentally disabled child, I can only say the trouble, stress, and time consumption is through the roof. If a normal child requires time and dedication, a disabled child requires even more. Personally having to help and pretty much raise my little brother who is autistic and seeing all of his classmates in the special ed classes kinda puts the amount of time, dedication, patience, and just over all will power to raise these children. They require so much attention and persistence, sometimes repetition, and its just really hard to deal with.

 

I can sort of say all of it traumatized me. I became sort of short tempered, it was a tad depressing, it was all sorts of life changing that you could not imagine. My little brother is so far behind because the school system is crap with special ED kids and home teaching is zero to none with my work and my mom's lack of education as well as little understanding and grasp of the English language. My little brother needs to have someone there, repeatedly showing him, teaching him, with patience, care, and its just so stressful.

 

Some parents seem to be born for it, and had I had a little more back up from my parents in properly educating my little brother, it might have been less stressful for me and them, but sadly dumb parents, a stupid school system, my own schooling and now work has made me realize how much time has to be dedicated to a special needs child. You cant just dedicate a few hours a day to a special needs toddler or even preteen. They need so much more attention and supervision, they need time, persistence, dedication, patience, and most parents can't even deal with a non special needs child.

 

What happened to my brother (his autism was a result of a heart defect which starved his brain of oxygen for a few minutes/hour ish) is actually a genetic defect passed on by the mother. Now can you imagine how paranoid I am? Not only did I have to be a part of and witness an improper raising of a special needs child, I my self could have one. Do you know the amount of fear and trauma that brings up? People need to understand that when a mother or a couple fears that their child might be a special needs child, they might have good reason. I do not want to raise a special needs child. I do not think I am capable. I feel capable of raising a non special needs child but I could not, and probably would not, raise or even carry to full term a pregnancy that could result in a special needs child. I do not want to suffer through another case like my brother, and I don't want my child to suffer from my trauma and impatience born from pretty much raising my special needs brother.

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Female still means woman.

"Female," in biological context especially, refers to any representative of a (typically) binary-sex species who has a specific set of reproductive organs and possibly other associated characteristics - in vertebrates it is the counterpart which lays eggs or gives birth. Also the producer of the "passive" gamete variant and the receptor of genetic material (the latter definition becomes especially relevant in bacteria). It does not - and I reiterate, NOT mean "woman", which designates gender. People mess those terms up quite frequently, especially due to writing out "sex" on forms is a bad taboo thing. rolleyes.gif

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I'm going to ignore severe deformations for now, but a syndrome should not necessarily be a death sentence. Multitudes of people who have syndromes, disabilities, disorders, illnesses, etc. can and do live happy lives. There are definitely more serious illnesses and health issues, I'm not debating that, but not everything is a death sentence.

 

If someone can't handle that, it's fine, but I would hope people who are trying for a child are prepared to possibly give birth to a child that may not have the easiest life due to physical or mental disability.

 

I also think it is scary here that you used 'they' to refer to parents but 'it' to refer to disabled children. Disabled people are still people deserving of respect. D:

"Them" refers to parents as a plural, and I used the word "it" so that I don't use the he/she thing (gender irrelevant, not because such babies aren't worth the human respect). Nobody should see them as freaks. And yes, not all of them are a death sentence. Conditions that can be treated or under control don't necessarily need to be aborted. In this I was referring to cases in which the baby is so severely deformed that it would either be a deadborn or live barely up to a month or a year.

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. sad.gif

 

I also think that, no matter how much you wanted to have a huge family, you shouldn't have it if you can't support it. What a paradox - people with better economical standards have one or two children, while starving families have up to a dozen. I will never understand why.

One such woman in my country gave birth to twelve children with three different fathers (you know what I mean), six were taken away from her because of poor life conditions they had, she is now pregnant with the thirteenth and she told one news reporter that came to her: "I want to gift my unborn baby because I have no ways to support it."

 

Gift? GIFT?! That is against the law + a child is not a thing to be given out like candy on Halloween. Besides, she has a history of misusing social aid previously given to her. That's why half of her kids were taken away while the other six have no foster families to be taken to.

Edited by *Silver Fox*

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I referred to my own babies as it until they were born - he or she would not have seemed appropriate as I had no idea of their sex until I met them. Having called them he throughout pregnancy might have left them confused - I do happen to believe babies can pick up on things like that - if I'd been referring to them as male I'd have been thinking of them that way. "It", said of unborn babies works for me, for that reason.

 

S/he is OK in writing but it's not easy to say in conversation. And pregnant people saying "baby kicked today" turns my stomach, TBH.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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So just a few minutes ago, my nephew's nap was interrupted by sounds of car alarm. After it went on for five minutes I got fed up and looked out the window, ready to tear into the neighbor that was neglecting to tend to the damn thing. Turns out it was a white van circling the cul-de-sac. I was confused at first until they finally left the neighborhood and I saw the fetus drawing on the back of it and the awareness of abortions daily blah blah blah. So I just had to stop myself from picking up a brick and hurling it at the vehicle.(that would make me no better than them) Just UGH I'm so mad right now!... And they're continuing to do this every ten minutes. I usually ignore people like this but it's LOUD, and it's ANNOYING. Someone PLEASE tell me, can I call the cops on them for disturbing the peace? This isn't something my nephews need to see.

 

To keep to the topic, these are the kinds of protests against abortion that I LOATH.

Edited by GhostChilli

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So just a few minutes ago, my nephew's nap was interrupted by sounds of car alarm. After it went on for five minutes I got fed up and looked out the window, ready to tear into the neighbor that was neglecting to tend to the damn thing. Turns out it was a white van circling the cul-de-sac. I was confused at first until they finally left the neighborhood and I saw the fetus drawing on the back of it and the awareness of abortions daily blah blah blah. So I just had to stop myself from picking up a brick and hurling it at the vehicle.(that would make me no better than them) Just UGH I'm so mad right now!... And they're continuing to do this every ten minutes. I usually ignore people like this but it's LOUD, and it's ANNOYING. Someone PLEASE tell me, can I call the cops on them for disturbing the peace? This isn't something my nephews need to see.

 

To keep to the topic, these are the kinds of protests against abortion that I LOATH.

I looked it up and I'm not sure this constitutes disturbing the peace (although I agree it certainly should), but that can depend on where you live. I suggest looking up your local laws and seeing if it'd be okay to report.

 

Hope the babe isn't too fussy!

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You can call the police to file a complaint about it, just make sure you call the non-emergency number and not 911. If it breaks any ordinances they'll hopefully take care of it. Before you call, though, see if you can get a plate number and make/model, so that they have something to track if they don't catch them in the act. A cellphone vid might be helpful, also.

Edited by Omega Entity

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We had something like that in my area.

Then people realized it's the Bible Belt and it's just a waste of gas to drive around shouting what people already believe.

But ours used the ice cream truck theme. Target the kids. Start 'em yung.

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if i use any terms that are offensive / out-dated, please don't flame me but just tell me. i admit i'm kind of lagging behind on what are still 'good' terms and what are 'bad.' there are numerous that i have no idea if they're offensive or not because i don't have an amazing amount of experience or exposure to a lot of this... welcome to being from a tiny little conservative town in wisconsin dry.gif

 

to the talk a few posts above about possibly aborting a mentally handicapped child see like there is handicapped still acceptable? -fails horribly- i just... for me, myself, i know i couldn't raise an autistic child or any child with a severe handicap. while i am fairly mentally 'healthy' myself (anxiety is really my only huge stumbling block, but it's pretty manageable), i already want to scream and cry when i'm forced to interact with children. i can handle them, and i am good with them, but my stress factor always shoots to the moon and back the minute they show any signs of displeasure.

and if they start crying? hello anxiety attack because i have no idea what their 'off' button is.

 

the experiences i've had with autistic persons and children.. some were good. some not so good. i have very distinct memories of elementary school that resulted in little me being harassed and chased by one of the special-needs boys who was significantly larger than me. that's a negative one. i've seen my friend's sister and how they have to deal with her, and i just. that isn't for me. i've heard of others of how they're so severely handicapped that they don't even recognize their family day-to-day, they can't dress themselves, can't feed themselves, and they're 19 years old.

the thought of having a child like that... it scares me badly enough that, despite me wanting to have children, i'm beyond petrified of having that happen to my child. i just. i can't mentally handle that, and i know there are other's who can't either. and i don't view us as 'bad' because of that.

 

to those people who can, and have, raised an autistic or otherwise handicapped child, i tip my hat to you and i praise you for doing something i know i'm incapable of doing. but i dunno... i hate saying that i'd abort my child if i knew they were going to be like that, but i know putting them into the adoption system would just make things so much worse for them, and if i tried to raise them it would end extremely poorly for me, and in turn probably for them. so... i dunno.

the thing is physical problems don't scare me nearly as much. i myself am hypermobile, and while it's not as severe as some other conditions, it causes me to have arthritic pain and occasionally dislocate my joints for no more reason than i stood up, and i'm only 21. maybe that's why i'm understand of physical issues. i zunno.

 

i believe any human who is capable of becoming pregnant should have the option to abort. someone above me said something along the lines of 'what isn't a good enough reason for you may be a perfectly acceptable reason for them,' and i agree with that. not everyone is capable of handling any situation. but that doesn't make them 'bad'...

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I myself am against abortion, and I will never abort any children the Lord may bless me with in the future, but I am not against any of you that have different views.

In a few earlier posts I saw that some people said stuff about the world being "over populated", but that is not true. Maybe some cities are over populated, but that's only because people are just grouping together in those certain areas. People just need to spread out more. There is PLENTY of room in the world for TONS of more people. But, there are certain times when abortion is understandable (even though I still don't agree with it).

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