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There's an entire TV series dedicated to this in the U.S. called "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant." I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that so many of these women mistook pregnancy for indigestion, etc... I mean clearly it's possible, the evidence is right there on the screen, but... damn. It's mindboggling to me.

Of course, it's debatable how much of the content in these "reality" shows is actually real, because, I agree, even if you were to have a disorder that caused you to gain weight rapidly, I think the size increase distribution is a little too specific...

Then again, I've never been on birth control, so I wouldn't know what it'd feel like to not have a period on a regular basis...

 

Speaking of indigestion, in some cases, women can mistake early birth contractions for constipation pain; case in point - the mother of a friend of mine almost got born in the toilet because her mother thought she was just having issues with passing a hard stool.

Edited by lightbird

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With both of my planned very much wanted children if I had not planned and tried for them I could see how I could have not known for many months. I have zero pregnancy complications or symptoms. I do not get nausea, I do not swell. I do not even gain noticeable weight until the 9th month. At 8 months in a bathing suit its still questionable if I am pregnant or slightly pudgy. Forget it if I have a shirt on or a coat.

 

Most women don't feel real "wow that's a baby movement" until much later as well. One of my friends is nearly 3rd trimester and still can not feel the baby because of its position in the uterus and the position of the placenta. There is just too much cushion.

 

 

I can see how even a thin women might not know for months. Let alone an overweight women.

Edited by babybluefire

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I was one of those ones that didn't know for about 3 months. I wasn't on BC, and I *thought* I had gotten my period the first two months. It wasn't until the 3rd month that I was a week late and took a test. The doctor even thought I had conceived two months later than I actually had, but due to reasons, I was pretty sure when conception had to have happened. I had about a week of slight nausea, which I had chalked up to stress, when she did move it felt more like gas or butterflies, nothing very strong, and if I had been able to control my appetite a little better, I don't think my pregnancy would have been very obvious at all, due to how I was carrying and how I'm built.

 

I know those shows are dramatized, but I could see how one could be unaware until delivery that they were expecting.

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Holy crap! It's been a while since I've been here! Good to see everyone going about business as usual. I'm not here to argue (necessarily) just to drop in and say hello to everyone.

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I was one of those ones that didn't know for about 3 months.  I wasn't on BC, and I *thought* I had gotten my period the first two months.  It wasn't until the 3rd month that I was a week late and took a test.  The doctor even thought I had conceived two months later than I actually had, but due to reasons, I was pretty sure when conception had to have happened.  I had about a week of slight nausea, which I had chalked up to stress, when she did move it felt more like gas or butterflies, nothing very strong, and if I had been able to control my appetite a little better, I don't think my pregnancy would have been very obvious at all, due to how I was carrying and how I'm built.

 

I know those shows are dramatized, but I could see how one could be unaware until delivery that they were expecting.

That sounds rather interesting with the whole movement.

 

I'm terrified if I ever got pregnant with my IUD (it's near impossible, unless it gets knocked out of place..) because I feel like it's gonna tear up my uterus because it shouldn't be sharing room with the fetus and a LOT can (and usually does) go bad. If pregnancy happens, I have several problems. Getting the IUD out before damage is badly done. Finding a clinic to get an abortion. Getting one without my father finding out. And the worst one, finding out I AM pregnant before it's too late..

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Wow. Gee, Chili, I can only hope that doesn't happen to you (or anyone for that matter)! That sounds awful. Also, I take it your father isn't on the same side of the debate as you?

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Holy crap! It's been a while since I've been here! Good to see everyone going about business as usual. I'm not here to argue (necessarily) just to drop in and say hello to everyone.

Hey Htt biggrin.gif

 

That's probably the most horrifying Ghost. That and the whole "not knowing you were pregnant". I didn't know about the other things but I did know that you could still be on your period during that time...which in both respects is a bad time. ._.

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Hey Htt biggrin.gif

 

That's probably the most horrifying Ghost. That and the whole "not knowing you were pregnant". I didn't know about the other things but I did know that you could still be on your period during that time...which in both respects is a bad time. ._.

I DID know that periods still happening is more common that we thought during pregnancy. Which now makes it seem like we can't rely on waiting until the period comes to confirm there's no pregnancy. My sister did have normal cycles when she was pregnant with my nephew..

 

Wow. Gee, Chili, I can only hope that doesn't happen to you (or anyone for that matter)! That sounds awful. Also, I take it your father isn't on the same side of the debate as you?

 

Yea, he isn't. There was a time once when I asked him "what if that pregnancy would kill me?" he actually had to THINK about who he wanted to live. Do you know how damaging that felt to have the one person I trust the most think about choosing between me and cells that may not even become human?

 

I don't know what he'd say now(he has changed a bit but is still brutally pro-life) but I'll never forget that moment..

Edited by GhostChilli

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That sounds rather interesting with the whole movement.

 

I'm terrified if I ever got pregnant with my IUD (it's near impossible, unless it gets knocked out of place..) because I feel like it's gonna tear up my uterus because it shouldn't be sharing room with the fetus and a LOT can (and usually does) go bad. If pregnancy happens, I have several problems. Getting the IUD out before damage is badly done. Finding a clinic to get an abortion. Getting one without my father finding out. And the worst one, finding out I AM pregnant before it's too late..

Wow!

 

And see... your case sounds like one where I would argue that an abortion MIGHT be the only way to go to save a life. (Especially since with the IUD in there, the fetus'd be unlikely to survive anyhow.)

 

Yea, he isn't. There was a time once when I asked him "what if that pregnancy would kill me?" he actually had to THINK about who he wanted to live. Do you know how damaging that felt to have the one person I trusts the most think about choosing between me and cells that may not even become human?

 

I don't know what he'd say now(he has changed a bit but is still brutally pro-life) but I'll never forget that moment..

 

I do NOT agree with that.

 

IF the pregnancy is going to potentially kill the one carrying it, then, sad though it is, abortion may be the only option. I am not saying that I like it, but in some situations, it might be necessary. I would consider myself to be pro-life, but I would say that I am NOT as extreme as that. My belief is that, if it comes down to a choice like that... ultimately the woman's life comes first.

 

ALSO ETA- Can I say that your posts here, GhostChili, were quite informative as to WHY you feel so strongly about this?

Never hurts to try to understand someone else's perspective, after all...

Edited by Silverswift

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It's really scary for me because I have an incredibly irregular period. I can go for *months* or even a *year* without having a period (yes I've talked to a few doctors and they said it was fine, though I still have doubts. :\ I've been wanting to talk to a gynecologist for a while now). I used to have them every other month and then that petered out, so unless I'm on BC pills my periods are incredibly unreliable. My boyfriend and I do use condoms and occasionally I remember to get my prescription for the pills, but neither is 100% so I could probably end up pregnant and never know, at least as far as my period stopping to signify it.

 

I feel like even if I hated the idea of abortion, I would still remain extremely pro-choice...that's how I feel about some other things, particularly polygamy. I can't *stand* it, I don't think I'll ever understand it, it absolutely boggles my mind, but I wish it were legalized. :\ Why should I have a say in who marries whom or how many? I think that's how I would be with abortion, no matter what, at least in this life with the information I know.

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Yea, he isn't. There was a time once when I asked him "what if that pregnancy would kill me?" he actually had to THINK about who he wanted to live. Do you know how damaging that felt to have the one person I trusts the most think about choosing between me and cells that may not even become human?

 

I don't know what he'd say now(he has changed a bit but is still brutally pro-life) but I'll never forget that moment..."

 

Oh my god... Alright, I'm pretty far on the pro-life end of the spectrum, but I agree that in a life or death situation the mother should come first. I mean, yes it's excessively saddening that a potential human has been lost, but the mother takes priority in this one. I am actually taken aback that he would hesitate about that! Even in a hypothetical scenario that's pretty frightening. Sincerely my condolences go out to you!

 

"Hey Htt smile.gif"

 

Hey Blight! No hard feelings right?

Edited by Htt71

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Hey Blight! No hard feelings right?

Wha? Noooo of course not. Glad to see you still around! :3 Sorry if I came off a bit too strongly/rudely before. Glad you're still here x3

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It's really scary for me because I have an incredibly irregular period. I can go for *months* or even a *year* without having a period (yes I've talked to a few doctors and they said it was fine, though I still have doubts. :\ I've been wanting to talk to a gynecologist for a while now). I used to have them every other month and then that petered out, so unless I'm on BC pills my periods are incredibly unreliable. My boyfriend and I do use condoms and occasionally I remember to get my prescription for the pills, but neither is 100% so I could probably end up pregnant and never know, at least as far as my period stopping to signify it.

 

I feel like even if I hated the idea of abortion, I would still remain extremely pro-choice...that's how I feel about some other things, particularly polygamy. I can't *stand* it, I don't think I'll ever understand it, it absolutely boggles my mind, but I wish it were legalized. :\ Why should I have a say in who marries whom or how many? I think that's how I would be with abortion, no matter what, at least in this life with the information I know.

I hear ya.

 

 

The one thing I hate about Mirena is that it can and WILL MIMICK pregnancy symptoms. Every other month I'll get morning sickness or a bloated belly that slightly sticks out, frequent urination, ect. I nearly have a phobia of getting a pregnancy test because I am deathly afraid of what the results would say. I seriously think that if I saw "pregnant/+" on all of them (I'd buy multiple ones to avoid a false test), I'd black out on the spot and probably lose it temporarily. My only lifeline is a family friend that has already confirmed with me that she'd help me find a clinic.

 

Oh my god... Alright, I'm pretty far on the pro-life end of the spectrum, but I agree that in a life or death situation the mother should come first. I mean, yes it's excessively saddening that a potential human has been lost, but the mother takes priority in this one. I am actually taken aback that he would hesitate about that! Even in a hypothetical scenario that's pretty frightening. Sincerely my condolences go out to you!

 

One thing I remember him saying was "You don't take a life to save one." which to this day makes absolutely NO sense. My father MAY let me get an abortion, but not without plenty of guilt trips and knowing him, he'd probably force me to pray for "killing that baby" and ask for forgiveness every day. That's what I'd deal with if he found out..

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I'm sorry and I don't mean to offend anyone by saying it, but I think abortion is WRONG! Utterly wrong! I believe that life begins at conception. It is a beating heart, and abortion stops it. I don't care that someone thinks that it's not a baby until it tastes the air, but it's not removing a nuisance (though at the time, it may be one) it's murder. I encourage all of you to go to somewhere that will help place the baby with a home, after it is born. I encourage you all to simply LET IT LIVE! Don't live in guilt, and regret. At LEAST let someone who DOES want it a chance. So, that's just my opinion. Sorry again if it offends you.

 

Also, if you don't want to have a baby, then why not take measures not to have one? Something that prevents it. Not the so-called "Morning After" pill. Which washes the fertilized egg out. It has STILL BEEN fertilized! It is STILL GROWING! It is A LIFE! You are STOPPING IT!

 

Didn't mean to get all yelly, it just sickens me.

And another thing. Abortion Doctors don't always tell you is that sometimes the mother is hurt, and can't have children later, even if they want to.

 

Seattle hospital used aborted babies as fuel for their heating. Sickening.

 

And if YOUR mother had had an abortion? Smile, your mother chose life.

Edited by EmmaD333

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I'm sorry and I don't mean to offend anyone by saying it, but I think abortion is WRONG! Utterly wrong! I believe that life begins at conception. It is a beating heart, and abortion stops it. I don't care that someone thinks that it's not a baby until it tastes the air, but it's not removing a nuisance (though at the time, it may be one) it's murder. I encourage all of you to go to somewhere that will help place the baby with a home, after it is born. I encourage you all to simply LET IT LIVE! Don't live in guilt, and regret. At LEAST let someone who DOES want it a chance.

 

Scientific evidence tells you otherwise. Heart=/= person, especially not a fertilized egg. And adoption systems are poison. Go back and read, I don't feel like sounding like a broken record.

 

Also, if you don't want to have a baby, then why not take measures not to have one? Something that prevents it. Not the so-called "Morning After" pill. Which washes the fertilized egg out. It has STILL BEEN fertilized! It is STILL GROWING! It is A LIFE! You are STOPPING IT!

 

Didn't mean to get all yelly, it just sickens me.

 

What sickens me is that pro-birthers like tossing children in horrible systems and forget about them, like sweeping something under the mat.

 

 

 

And if YOUR mother had had an abortion? Smile, your mother chose life.

 

This only makes me lol. We wouldn't have cared because we wouldn't be aware of it. Argument invalid.

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@EmmaD333- Please consult the block'o'facts below.

 

Also, people do not use aborted fetuses as heating fuel. Not only would that be disturbing, it'd be really inefficient. Fetuses are mostly water and do not burn well.

 

I'm just going to put the box o' facts here,

 

Does the notion that women are keepers of human life even sound SLIGHTLY offensive to you? Maybe SOME women don't WANT to be keepers of a mass they never wanted. Maybe they don't want to keep a parasite inside of them because they have a drastic fear of pregnancy/child spawnage such as myself. "Oh then don't have sex Blighty". Are you serious? The sex shaming needs to end. People do not have sex just to procreate. Humans are the only species that can face their mate/partner during intercourse. Sex is a form of bonding. So saying "dun wanna get preg. dun have sex" is ridiculous.

 

 

You act like you know us. That just because we are women we should be proud to be "keepers of life" You know what? I'm not. If it was possible in the freaking country I live in, I would have my ovaries, tubes, and uterus CUT OUT. But I can't. Know why? Because you have to already have 2 kids, 30+ years old, and have your partner agrees that he is ok with this...ONLY THEN can you get one.

 

So if a women is perfectly stable, by your definition she should birth it? No. Stop. you don;t KNOW why she's getting an abortion. Maybe not enough finances, maybe her partner tampered with her bc, the end of the day...YOU don't know.

 

That attitude is what is going to revert society back to women being unable to do things for themselves. It's going to make all the strides that women made to be allowed to have their own choices with their reproductive organs invalid. It's going to make women the subject on being reliant on others for their needs.

If it's illegal, it's just going to make more deaths for those women..oh, and those precious cell clumps. So by telling them NO. You're ultimately going to be killing two birds with one stone.

Let's all hope they don't become aware that abortificant herbs are a thing, or stairs, or boiling water, or wires,....guns,knives,ability to stop breathing, or all of that other stuff. Because only then will abortions not be a thing. Don't get in the way of desperate....unless of course, that's the whole idea. Make women so desperate to get an abortion she just kills herself. Kudos to anyone that thinks like this, because those are the real murderers.

 

You do realize that "careless" or "irresponsible" isn't a valid explanation to say "NOH ABORTION FOR YOU. YOU MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS!!!" Is basically just punishing the woman for getting pregnant and now you're punishing her to give birth.

 

Oh she can put it up for adoption biggrin.gif

Yes because our adoption sys. is so great. And since we are on the topic of "irresponsible, let's look at why some women get pregnant when they don't want to be.

 

 

A doctor can and will refuse to abort to save the life of the mother:

 

47% of puerperal maternal death is from doctors refusing to administer life-saving medical procedures which would prolong the mother's life but pose risk to the fetus.  74% of those cases are because of the doctor's morals and the "conscience clause." Of that number, 22% of those pregnancies were before the legal cutoff for abortion in the United States.

 

(Puerperal Death, Infant and Maternal, 2008, The Journal of Maternal-Fetal Medicine, Dr. Meredith Fresquez and Joan Christodoulou-Smith)

 

10 million women attempt suicide every year. 4 million because of pregnancy. In the US alone, 14,000 women committed suicide because of their pregnancies in 2009. Another 3,000 were inconclusive with suicide suspected.

 

If they can't afford a baby, how are they going to afford to put a baby up for adoption?

 

----

 

The point that they're making, is that when abortion is illegal in the united states, infanticide goes up 25% and child abuse goes up 46%, and that's cases that are reported.

 

----

 

see my statistics above. Also to add to that --Of children in chronic children's wards, or those with congenital diseases, 87% wish that they'd never been born. Of those, 2-6% under 12 attempt suicide every year for the second or more time. 14-20% attempt it for the first time.

 

Average cost to give a child up for adoption, with fees included, at birth, not including all the above $7,000-10,000

QUOTE (ShinyTomato @ Jul 31 2012, 07:21 AM)

only 8% of abortions are "irresponsible" people who knew it was possible for them to get pregnant and didn't bother with birth control, right?

 

And no federal money, once again, funds abortion.

 

And, only 2-3% of the children given up for adoption (when people actually have the money to do it) are actually adopted. The rest stay in the system until they die or age out, statistically going through at least one abusive foster home.

 

Okay, touching on things quickly.

 

Unfortunately, we do not, in this country, teach proper birth control and even when we do, it is not an option for everyone, nor is it always effective. Birth control is often tampered with by partners of both genders.  Did you know, for example, that over a 25% of abortions occur because a partner lied that they were sterile, or tampered with birth control?

 

The number of married women, or women in serious, long-term committed relationships aborting is steadily increasing.

 

----

 

Only 2-3% of children given up for adoption will be adopted. (2010 Social Services Survey and Census of Adoption and Foster Systems in the United States)

 

Further, for quality of life of those not adopted:

 

1 in 3 will tell a social worker that they wish they had been aborted. 16% of those under 12 will attempt to commit suicide and fail. another 9% will succeed. Of those that fail, 86% will attempt again, even if removed from the foster family they were with at the time. In foster kids 12-18, 82% will attempt suicide before aging out, of those who do not die prior to reaching 18. in 94% of these cases, they will state that they wish they had never been born, or wish they had been aborted.

 

(United States Child Protective Services Inter-State Study of Child Welfare in Foster Care, 2010)

 

Further, adoption is prohibitively expensive:

 

Average cost for pre-natal doctor's visits: 1,862-3,543

Ultrasound: $100-400 for the cheap ones. From $500 up if complications are involved.

Pre-natal tests: $1,100-$2,000 assuming standard tests only and no reason for more expensive ones.

Vaginal delivery without complication: $6,200 -$7,500

Vaginal delivery with complication: $8,200 - $10,500

C-section without complication: $11,500 - $13,000

C-section with complication = $15,500 - $ 18,200

Hospital stay: $4,000 - $6,000

Neonatal and pediatric care: $900 - $2,000 (no complications)

Neonatal and pediatric care: 1,500 -4,000 (with complications)

 

Average cost to give a child up for adoption, with fees included, at birth, not including all the above $7,000-10,000

 

A. Only 10% of women who have abortions knew or understood that they were not protected at the time.

 

B. Between 25-30% of abortions are caused by fraud -- a partner lying about sterility or tampering with birth control.

 

C. It is illegal to be sterilized against your will in the US.

 

D. it is also illegal to be sterilized in most states, unless you are over 35 and already have two children, unless there is a pressing health reason, despite not wanting to have children.

 

E. The majority of abortions are those well above the poverty line.

 

F. Not everyone can use certain kinds of birth control for various health or moral reasons and NFP is unreliable.

 

G. Abstinence sex-ed doesn't teach how to avoid pregnancy beyond "don't do it." We need to fix the education system.

QUOTE (ShinyTomato @ Aug 2 2012, 10:54 PM)

Considering that 1 in 3 people will have a partner tamper with birth control or lie about their fertility, statistically -- yes you are.  The majority of children in this world were unplanned (as high as 82%). Obviously, the number that abort, unplanned goes up, but not by much (84%)

 

----

 

You are 74% more likely to have any sort of complication with birth than with abortion. Of those that have complications from abortion, less than 5% affect sterility, and less than 1% pose any threat to life. That's much lower than with birth.

 

(US CDC National Center For Health Statistics, Risk of Maternal Complications During Birth, Spontaneous Abortion and Clinical Abortion, 2011)

 

I see the Box O' Statistics is still infamous.

 

So, here we go.

 

Only 1-2% of children who are given up to the state for adoption are being adopted.

 

In children who are not adopted, 73% will state that they wish they had been aborted.

 

61% will state that their parents were selfish for not aborting them.

 

1 in 5 under twelve will attempt suicide before the year is out.

 

1 in 3 will tell a social worker that they wish they were never born.

 

The average age of social workers placing children on suicide watch nationwide has dropped from fourteen to 12.

 

In states where abortion rights have been restricted since 2010, the incidence in abuse and neglect of infants has risen 45% (with a 2% margin of error.)

 

Suicides of pregnant women are up 31% (4% margin of error as knowledge is hard to determine.)

 

The average cost for giving a child up for adoption, after medical bills and care, has risen an average of $3,525 in the continental US.

 

Here's my view on abortion v. adoption. Why would you be against preventing a fetus suffering before it has any guarantee of being human rather than put them into a system where they have a 88% chance of being molested or abused, a 90% chance of attempting suicide -- when we know for a fact through studies that 97% of the children failed to be adopted in the 18-month window will actively state (some as early as five) that they wish they had never been born?

 

---

 

So, to tell me, who works in social services and still works as an "other options" counselor at a clinic that I have so "see thigns from all sides" and throwing the numbers of how many abortions have happened at me -- why not look at the numbers of how many children are put in care every year?

How many are in care at any given time because of abuse (over 400,000)

How many children are proven to be neglected each year: (872,000)

How many die on average due to neglect in the home (2,560)

How many are put in care because they were not adopted (120,000 in 2004, which has since risen to triple that)

How many fatalities for under-five year olds are due to neglect (76%)

How many calls CPS gets each year (3.2 million)

How many cases actually get investigated: (64%)

How many cases investigated get rereported (22%)

 

And you want to put more children in the system? I already work overtime every week, am on-call when I'm not at work, and have been shot twice. ~Shiny Tomatoe

 

As others have said, you have no right to judge what others want to do with their body. Them having an abortion...How does that affect you? An abortion is a private thing between the woman and her affiliates. Does a stranger having an abortion put a mental strain on you? Does it make you sick and weak? Does it make you want to lash out and harm others? (In this case, making them give birth). And also, does a complete stranger having an abortion cripple you mentally, physically, or emotionally?

 

There's a cure for this. It's called minding your own business.

 

Edited by TheCompleteAnimorph

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Life and sentience are different things. Yes, an embryo or fetus is alive, but it isn't aware or capable of feeling pain. It doesn't know it's alive, it can't fear death, it can't be upset that it stops living.

 

However, the most important reason I'm pro-choice is because of bodily autonomy. Pregnant people (since not all people who can get pregnant are women) have a right to say what happens to their own body. OK, yeah, there's another smaller body inside theirs, but it still requires the use of their organs. Pregnancy isn't a walk in the park-it can be incredibly dangerous and permanently life altering (and sometimes fatal). No one should have to go through that for someone else if they don't want to. Unless you would require someone to donate blood or organs anytime someone needed them to stay alive... you can't tell pregnant people to donate the use of their uterus. Just no.

 

Also, yes, I'm very much glad I'm alive. On the other hand, if I'd been aborted, I wouldn't be sad or in pain or anything. I wouldn't have been aware that it happened. It would have been neutral. And honestly? I love my mother. If abortion had been the right decision for her, then I would have been miserable if I knew that I had been carried to term to against her will. Honestly that would've been traumatizing for me, and I would MUCH RATHER have been aborted if she wanted to than to be alive against her wishes.

 

Side note: no, the morning after pill is not a form of abortion, and in fact doesn't work if the egg is fertilized. It can take DAYS between intercourse and fertilization, and the morning after pill is only effective before fertilization occurs.

 

And another thing. Abortion Doctors don't always tell you is that sometimes the mother is hurt, and can't have children later, even if they want to.

This is a straight up lie told by the pro-life crowd (at least that it happens remotely often). Don't believe everything you hear. While there can be complications with abortions, it is still MUCH, MUCH, MUCH safer than carrying a pregnancy to term.

 

Edit to add:

While everyone is entitled to opinions... you have to realize that opinions can have real world consequences. When your opinions want to take rights away from other people, then we have every right to be upset by them and to argue against them.

Edited by hydrargyrum

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And if YOUR mother had had an abortion? Smile, your mother chose life.

I frequently find myself wishing my mother had aborted me, and I strongly believe she deserved a much better child than who I turned out to be. Life isn't so great for some people.

 

The fact is that mistakes happen. Contraception sometimes fails. Irresponsibility happens. Forgetfulness happens. Rape happens. It sickens me when people do not seem to even consider these situations.

 

Just because something is alive does not make it a person.

 

 

I am GLAD to be alive! I am GLAD that I am alive. I AM GLAD THAT MY FRIENDS ARE ALIVE! Some slight alter in history. (Going Sy-fy) as an encouragement to an abortion could have changed everything. The aborted child could have been the one who coaxed someone important out of suicide, who went on to do things that never would have happened if the one child had been aborted.

 

Madam, I say that you are entitled to your own opinion, and I ask you NOT to rip apart mine. (Which has at this point, made me do research and become even harder to break.)

 

The child could've also grown up to be a serial rapist, a drug trafficker, etc. None of that matters though, because the birth never happened, and that child never existed.

 

Honestly I'd encourage you to go back and read even the last few pages of this thread, if not more, because everything you're saying has been brought up and answered many times over. No one is ripping apart your opinions, just presenting counterarguments to your faulty logic.

Edited by Koroshiya-Ichi

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-snip-

 

TCA seems to have summed up the proof here nicely smile.gif

 

 

As for the lol? I LOL at you, LOLER! I am GLAD to be alive! I am GLAD that I am alive. I AM GLAD THAT MY FRIENDS ARE ALIVE! Some slight alter in history. (Going Sy-fy) as an encouragement to an abortion could have changed everything. The aborted child could have been the one who coaxed someone important out of suicide, who went on to do things that never would have happened if the one child had been aborted.

 

Madam, I say that you are entitled to your own opinion, and I ask you NOT to rip apart mine. (Which has at this point, made me do research and become even harder to break.)

 

What was that you said? Ah, yes. Argument invalid.

I lol because you're using every horrible excuse that's been debunked not once but MANY times in this thread, especially the "that child could've changed the world!" excuse. Not even going to go there. And as for the fetus fuel thing (lulz now that just sounds silly), I don't even know where to begin. Where on EARTH did you get this piece of information? That term used lightly.

 

Where was I tearing your opinion opinion apart? I'm merely debunking information you post in hopes that you see some real facts here. Not sure why you feel attacked by that. If you aren't willing to look at the information me and other people have posted and discuss them, why should I look at yours? dry.gif

 

And yes, you're entitled to your own opinion but I can and WILL question you when you try feeding false info like that.

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OK, I added a bit to my last post, but it probably got missed, so I'll say it again: you can't just hide behind "it's an opinion". Saying "abortion is wrong, and no one should get them" influences people to make abortions harder to get. Your opinion takes rights away from pregnant people to control what happens to their own bodies. So while it is your personal belief... of course we're going to argue against it because YOU'RE TAKING RIGHTS AWAY FROM PEOPLE.

 

Edit: O.o I missed that bit about fuel for heating... I'm sorry, that is the most ridiculous BS I've ever heard. That's not even /slightly/ practical. That is so obviously pro-life (or should I say anti-choice) propaganda.

Edited by hydrargyrum

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If kids don't want to be around, then they wouldn't be! They can prevent themselves from living, or they can revel in what they have.

SO BASICALLY you would rather they commit suicide than them be aborted.

 

Wow.

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What I mean by that is: This started out as ME stating MY OPINIONS!

I was not attempting to be mean.

I was simply stating what I, and my religion believe to be truth!

 

You cross the line when you start forcing your belief (especially religion) on others. You might have not done this, but you just posted "facts" to try and back up your belief. We're correcting them for you and trying to show the real truth. Why aren't you willing to look at them? This is just ignorance.

 

Who said anything about "Dun have sex."? I certainly didn't. What I said was that you shouldn't kill something because of what you did. I said to take preventive measures. Wear a condom, use a gel that makes it impossible for sperm to get to an egg, for pete's sake! Don't punish an innocent LIFE!

 

This! This PROVES that you don't have to kill anything.

 

Okay, all of that can be used and still fail. What then? Why should a women be punished for taking precautions correctly?

 

If kids don't want to be around, then they wouldn't be! They can prevent themselves from living, or they can revel in what they have. I think that they should get to decide. I think that you shouldn't punish them for what the mother believes is a foolish decision made by them, and they will regret it for as long as they live, unless they do this horrific thing.

 

Oh believe me, they kill themselves all the time in the system, just ask Shiny. She's had to handle it many times. And they blame people like you for being forced to be born.

 

 

Did I not say to not attempt to rip apart my faith, my belief?? It wont work!

Did I not say that I meant not to offend anyone by stating my belief?

Did I NOT SAY that it is a BELIEF? I AM NOT FORCING IT UPON YOU!

I am simply STATING what I believe is true!

I'm not saying that abortionists are EEEEEEVIL, and that they HATE LIFE, and are sadistic KID-HATERS!

I am saying that I believe, and I DO, that they are wrong.

I will let them, it is their choice, but I think it's wrong.

I am sorry that you believe what you believe, but I cannot change it, so I ask you to stop trying to make ME!

 

No one here is attacking you, so I suggest you stop getting snarky if you want to be taken seriously.

 

Have a nice day!

 

So you're just going to ignore real facts we post and continue to stick your fingers in your ears and go "LALALA I'm not listening!" ?

 

See, this is the reason why many people don't understand the dark truth behind the pro-life lies. They continue to be brainwashed and try to pass them off as factual. It's a shame.

 

There, ma'am. Right there, you are actively trying to remove all threats that someone would not believe what you believe!

 

What was that about not tearing it apart?

 

I feel attacked because of the above reason! You are attempting to tear me down!

 

And yes, you're entitled to your own opinion but I can and WILL question you when you try feeding false info like that. is NOT trying to tear me down?

 

I DO look at others' opinions. I DO! And I am stating my contribution, which is different from yours! This is to discuss, and I am!

 

So if you think for one SECOND, that I am going to fall for the traps you have set out for me, then I ask you to reconsider.

 

I'm sorry you feel attacked by that but that's not my intention. Unless I have started acting childish and calling you names and personally trying to upset you, I'm not attacking you. You're simply choosing to feel threatened by those posts. All I have posted was actual facts and I'm not going to ooze sugar on them.

Edited by GhostChilli

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This started out as ME stating MY OPINIONS!

I was not attempting to be mean.

I was simply stating what I, and my religion believe to be truth!

 

 

Because of the money crisis..... yes, they may not afford the adoption. Yes, a child deserves to be loved. But if you do not love it, you don't have to kill it! It's not THEIR fault you don't love it! So find a relative that will take it in! Find a friend! Perhaps find someone that lost a child! DO NOT KILL IT! I am a religious person. Christianity gives me SO MUCH STRENGTH! I can FIGHT! I am not ASSAULTING YOU! I am not CONFRONTING YOU WITH A CRIME YOU HAVEN'T COMMITTED! I am simply saying that I don't agree with you! And now I'm defending the fact that I DO NOT AGREE!

Nothing you can say will change that, and I will continue to debate!

And everyone else is stating their opinions too. That's the entire point of this thread.

 

Who said anything about "Dun have sex."? I certainly didn't. What I said was that you shouldn't kill something because of what you did. I said to take preventive measures. Wear a condom, use a gel that makes it impossible for sperm to get to an egg, for pete's sake! Don't punish an innocent LIFE!

 

No one is punishing anything. Some people just do not want to be pregnant or give birth, ever. And that's completely okay. The preventative measures you speak of don't always work. Do you really not understand that?

 

Because of the money crisis..... yes, they may not afford the adoption. Yes, a child deserves to be loved. But if you do not love it, you don't have to kill it! It's not THEIR fault you don't love it! So find a relative that will take it in! Find a friend! Perhaps find someone that lost a child! DO NOT KILL IT! I am a religious person. Christianity gives me SO MUCH STRENGTH! I can FIGHT! I am not ASSAULTING YOU! I am not CONFRONTING YOU WITH A CRIME YOU HAVEN'T COMMITTED! I am simply saying that I don't agree with you! And now I'm defending the fact that I DO NOT AGREE!

Nothing you can say will change that, and I will continue to debate!

 

You still do not seem to grasp the fact that SOME PEOPLE WOULD RATHER DIE THAN GIVE BIRTH, that pregnancy is a potentially dangerous or deadly condition for some people, and that it has little to do with love but with the right to exert control over your own body. It's fine that you're a Christian, but stop trying to force your God's laws on others. Abortion is not a crime. You may view it as a sin, but your views on sin have no place in law, medical practice, and other peoples' lives.

 

I am saying that I believe, and I DO, that they are wrong.

I will let them, it is their choice, but I think it's wrong.

I am sorry that you believe what you believe, but I cannot change it, so I ask you to stop trying to make ME!

 

Then fine, believe whatever you want. Just don't try rob me or anyone else of their bodily autonomy. Don't impose your God's will on others. No one's trying to make you change your views - this is a discussion/debate thread, so we're discussing and debating. ffs...

Edited by Koroshiya-Ichi

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The thread said specifically not to rip people to pieces.

 

I'm sorry, but my religion says to try to help the non-believers. Forgive me for saying what I think is right.

And nobody is ripping you to pieces.

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