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@Buggzter - As it happens several of us on here would greatly like to be strelised but run into a problem where Doctors simply refuse to do so. If you're under 35 with no children it's almost impossible to get it done. You run into the age-old argument of "Well you might want children one day.". It *should* be a choice for those of us that know we never want children, but that option is just not available. So we have to rely on imperfect methods of contraception (or just not have sex - but many of us *are* adult and are in long-term relationships and I don't think that level of intimacy and bonding is something we should be denied with our partners either).

And... the doctors simply WON'T let a person make that choice?

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NO, Silverswift, they often won't. Doctors (FAR too many of them) know better than you do what you want. Never forget that mad.gif

 

@Buggzter - As it happens several of us on here would greatly like to be strelised but run into a problem where Doctors simply refuse to do so. If you're under 35 with no children it's almost impossible to get it done. You run into the age-old argument of "Well you might want children one day.". It *should* be a choice for those of us that know we never want children, but that option is just not available. So we have to rely on imperfect methods of contraception (or just not have sex - but many of us *are* adult and are in long-term relationships and I don't think that level of intimacy and bonding is something we should be denied with our partners either).

It's not that easy later either - I was 27 when I was sterilised; I had two children already and I still really had to fight for it. They made me talk to my husband in front of doctors (he was furious.) After I FORCED my family doctor to refer me to a gynaecologist, we did get an appointment set up. When we got to the hospital they said he had to sign that he was OK with it. He stood there - and - wonderful man that he is, he flatly refused. He insisted that they do it - and I think he even said that said he would sue them if they didn't - but he would NOT sign to give permission for them to do something that was to be done to another person, an adult, who wanted it done. That it was in effect none of his business.

 

(This was in Canada, by the way - Ontario. I don't know how easy it would have been in the UK at that time.)

Edited by fuzzbucket

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WOW! ohmy.gif That is quite the story. I have always heard that doctors are capable of being quite arrogant, but that... that is a bit much. And did the threat of being sued change their opinion on the matter? I can say i think i am glad that the whole thing is one I won't have to worry about... at least it is unlikely.

 

Nature pretty much took care of the thing for me.

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NO, Silverswift, they often won't. Doctors (FAR too many of them) know better than you do what you want. Never forget that mad.gif

 

 

It's not that easy later either - I was 27 when I was sterilised; I had two children already and I still really had to fight for it. They made me talk to my husband in front of doctors (he was furious.) After I FORCED my family doctor to refer me to a gynaecologist, we did get an appointment set up. When we got to the hospital they said he had to sign that he was OK with it. He stood there - and - wonderful man that he is, he flatly refused. He insisted that they do it - and I think he even said that said he would sue them if they didn't - but he would NOT sign to give permission for them to do something that was to be done to another person, an adult, who wanted it done. That it was in effect none of his business.

 

(This was in Canada, by the way - Ontario. I don't know how easy it would have been in the UK at that time.)

Kind of unrelated, but is sterilisation dangerous? I'm already pretty sure i'll never want any children, but my current research on the topic deems it to be far too risky to be worth it.

Edited by flitzthesoulreaper

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Kind of unrelated, but is sterilisation dangerous? I'm already pretty sure i'll never want any children, but my current research on the topic deems it to be far too risky to be worth it.

Not in my opinion. ALL surgery carries some degree of risk - but micro surgery that just severs and ties the fallopian tubes is peanuts.

 

Mine was also done under local anaesthetic - and - for tastefulness' sake let us just say - without an abdominal incision.

 

Now a hysterectomy is major surgery - but you do NOT need to go that far.

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Not in my opinion. ALL surgery carries some degree of risk - but micro surgery that just severs and ties the fallopian tubes is peanuts.

 

Mine was also done under local anaesthetic - and - for tastefulness' sake let us just say - without an abdominal incision.

 

Now a hysterectomy is major surgery - but you do NOT need to go that far.

In fact, my own mom had her tubes tied after she had my sister. Pretty much while she was in the hospital after giving birth she... Decided two kiddos was enough and was afraid that another pregnancy would do further harm to her back which... she was having a fair amount of back pain at that time.

Edited by Silverswift

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Part of the problem is some doctors may be afraid people might try to sue them for letting them make the decision--at least in America where nobody can take responsibility for their own actions and suing fixes everything. sleep.gif'

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Part of the problem is some doctors may be afraid people might try to sue them for letting them make the decision--at least in America where nobody can take responsibility for their own actions and suing fixes everything. sleep.gif'

On what grounds could they be sued - if I have signed for the surgery ? Are you telling me the courts would see me as my husband's possession ?

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On what grounds could they be sued - if I have signed for the surgery ? Are you telling me the courts would see me as my husband's possession ?

Some people have attempted suits stating that the doctor did not check their mental health at the time and they did it because they were depressed, etc. And that the doctor did not make an ethical decision.

 

Though that has happened with abortions as well rolleyes.gif. I've also heard the change of heart and that the person who had it done sues because it can't be reversed. Honestly either laws need to be made to close the loop hole or perhaps some in general counseling be required (and provided at the location) for those wanting sterilization, and not the "But every woman needs to be a mom," counseling.

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Some people have attempted suits stating that the doctor did not check their mental health at the time and they did it because they were depressed, etc. And that the doctor did not make an ethical decision.

 

Though that has happened with abortions as well rolleyes.gif. I've also heard the change of heart and that the person who had it done sues because it can't be reversed. Honestly either laws need to be made to close the loop hole or perhaps some in general counseling be required (and provided at the location) for those wanting sterilization, and not the "But every woman needs to be a mom," counseling.

When I fought tooth and nail for WEEKS to get it done. Sheesh.... mad.gif I am so SICK of this sot of nonsense.

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When I fought tooth and nail for WEEKS to get it done. Sheesh.... mad.gif I am so SICK of this sot of nonsense.

Just to clarify, I thought the counseling as a messure against the 'didn't check mental health' and so as to expadite the procedure.

 

 

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Just to clarify, I thought the counseling as a messure against the 'didn't check mental health' and so as to expadite the procedure.

This one was about an adult choosing to be sterilised, not about abortion. But I'm telling you, if I had got pregnant again I would have had an abortion. I think it is a really bad idea to have more than two children; the world is overcrowded already.

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On what grounds could they be sued - if I have signed for the surgery ? Are you telling me the courts would see me as my husband's possession ?

Not having actual grounds to sue on doesn't stop people from trying. And bad publicity from being sued doesn't exactly always go away just because it was ruled that they didn't have a proper case.

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I always thought that sterilization would be a nice thing to have, but the laws on it in my country are unclear; in one place it says that you can have one only after the age of 35 AND if you have 3 children, or freely after the age of 40; in another, it says that you can get one regardless of your age if there are medical indications, or after 25, with a written permission. I'd qualify for the latter. Guess I should find out more.

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I'd certainly go for sterilization if it wasn't so hard, to prevent an unwanted child in case of an accident. Although all these laws and regulations make it seem like they don't want people to get sterilized. Then there's my grandparents doing the well-known "but we want great-grandchildren!" excuse. Sorry guys, you can count me out. Look to my brother if you want that.

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I'd certainly go for sterilization if it wasn't so hard, to prevent an unwanted child in case of an accident. Although all these laws and regulations make it seem like they don't want people to get sterilized. Then there's my grandparents doing the well-known "but we want great-grandchildren!" excuse. Sorry guys, you can count me out. Look to my brother if you want that.

Yeah, I can see my grandmother badgering about when I'm gonna give her some great-grandkids when she finds out that I've been in a serious relationship for a while now. How about no.

 

Aha, so I looked it up. It is indeed so that if you're 25 and over, you can get sterilized in Latvia, this law was changed in 2005. Yeah, I was looking at these laws when I was 14, which was in 2001/2002. It still comes with mandatory counselling about the consequences and they ask you to seriously think about this, but hey, better than 35 and with 3 kids.

Edited by lightbird

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I always thought that sterilization would be a nice thing to have, but the laws on it in my country are unclear; in one place it says that you can have one only after the age of 35 AND if you have 3 children, or freely after the age of 40; in another, it says that you can get one regardless of your age if there are medical indications, or after 25, with a written permission. I'd qualify for the latter. Guess I should find out more.

Written permission...? From yourself?

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Written permission...? From yourself?

Probably from a relative or doctor..

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Probably from a relative or doctor..

Why would a relative be necessary, it's elective if you're 25 and OVER. Under that age, it's only performed if there are medical reasons for it.

 

As far as I understood, they counsel you on all the things pertaining the surgery, and then you have to sign a form that you have understood everything (there are multiple counselling sessions, from what I gathered, especially if you've not given birth before) and agree to the surgery (this isn't America, so you can't easily sue doctors for things that are your own choice/fault), "written permission" was a bad expression from not nearly caffeinated enough me, but yeah, it's allowed in my country now, even though kinda frowned upon because of our bad demographics and also HOW DARE YOU NOT MAKE THE SACRIFICE OF RAISING CHILDREN AND LIVE HAPPILY WITH IT. :F

 

 

Actually, I recently came across a great quote: "People are still expected to provide reasons not to have children, but no reasons are required to have them" from here.

Edited by lightbird

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Why would a relative be necessary, it's elective if you're 25 and OVER. Under that age, it's only performed if there are medical reasons for it.

 

 

Actually, I recently came across a great quote: "People are still expected to provide reasons not to have children, but no reasons are required to have them" from here.

Probably to bear witness, that way it doesn't end up just being the doctor versus the patient, even with a signed document from the patient.

 

 

Wow what a great post! I totally love everything about it. It's sad that people are shocked and assume some of the worst things about a person when they say they don't want kids.

 

Scratch that.

 

They're surprised when a woman doesn't want kids. The guys I've seen that don't want kinds don't get so much a bat of the eye when they say so. I think, at least by the society in the US here, that since we're still "stuck" in the 50's with the idea of the nuclear family with the stay-at-home mother, that if a woman ever goes against what that role stood for, it's the most surprising thing to hear.

 

As for me, I think I would like one, MAAAAAAAAYBE two kids later on in life. I want to wait a few years, though. It's also not like it's a necessary thing. If I don't ever have kids, I don't mind. If I feel like I'm going to "run out of time" to have one, I can always adopt. But for the reason that I feel like I may or may not have one ever, I don't want to be sterilized.

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It's pretty much the same in Sweden; you've got to be at least 25 years old, no requirements of already having children. If you're between 18-25 years old you might be permitted sterilization if you have special medical reasons like hereditary disease, pregnancy complications or if you wish to change sex.

There is also one mandatory counseling session, where they go through how the procedure will be done, what the consequences will be, and possibly discussing why you want a sterilization and inform you about what other options there are for preventing pregnancy. Overall, the purpose is to make sure you're making a fully informed decision. Then you get to sign a paper that you've gone through the counseling, you are aware of the consequences of the procedure and take responsibility for your own choice, it's covered by the Law of Sterilization. The counseling session is free of charge.

When I look for stories around the net it sounds like the counselors were mostly very neutral. Extremely few experienced that the counselor was manipulative, and they made sure those few counselors were reprimanded.

The cost of the sterilization itself varies between the county councils, but most commonly it comes at the same price as a regular health exam, at about 300 SEK (about 46 USD).

As far as I'm aware there are only two county councils that deny sterilizations without medical reasons, but they've received so much criticism it'll probably change within a near future.

 

Edited to clarify something

Edited by Ripan

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They're surprised when a woman doesn't want kids. The guys I've seen that don't want kinds don't get so much a bat of the eye when they say so.

It depends on the environment, really... My husband is in the military, and tons of people have looked askance at him, been shocked, and/or tried to force him to change his mind when he told them he didn't want kids. Army insurance didn't even pay for his vasectomy; it all had to be out of pocket because he didn't have children already, even though he was nearly 40.

 

Granted, the procedure is much less expensive for men than women, but not every man would have $500 just lying around for the procedure either.

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I still think that early sterilisation is a mistake, unless there are medical reasons(yes, that includes various phobias) or you already have children. Life is not very constant, and that you might change your opinion, should be an important factor in any decision.

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I still think that early sterilisation is a mistake, unless there are medical reasons(yes, that includes various phobias) or you already have children. Life is not very constant, and that you might change your opinion, should be an important factor in any decision.

But that's your opinion and nobody is forcing you to have a sterilization, right? So why try to force someone else's opinion? I feel like this entire issue is just a lot of forcing opinions where they are not needed or wanted. Don't like abortions? Well don't have one. Don't like early sterilizations? Don't have one of those either! Don't try to subject me to your views when they vary.

 

Personally, I detest children and I'd probably be a bad parent. I don't have the temper to deal with them and, if I wanted a child, I would want to save a life and not make a life. I'd want to adopt.

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I still think that early sterilisation is a mistake, unless there are medical reasons(yes, that includes various phobias) or you already have children. Life is not very constant, and that you might change your opinion, should be an important factor in any decision.

Even after sterilization there still exists the option of artificial impregnation, if the woman changes her mind for some reason. Ova maturation, menstrual cycle and endometrium development continues as before.

 

Of course sterilization should be done after plenty of consideration, but then again, teenagers in high school are expected to know what career they'd like to undertake and if/where they'd like to study for those ends and this is taken more seriously than a grown woman's resolution to not have children.

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