Abortion

[Lila]

Same with Sarah Palin and Mccain except they've always felt that way.

If these two get power, dark days are ahead for women...

We might as well just erase the whole women's right movement. If we don't have the choice of our immediate health, it's ridiculous to think that we should have a choice about our lifestyle! God help us all.

 

/sarcasm. ugh.

[Brite]

We might as well just erase the whole women's right movement. If we don't have the choice of our immediate health, it's ridiculous to think that we should have a choice about our lifestyle! God help us all.

 

/sarcasm. ugh.

It also has to do with people being completely naive. "Just keep it in your pants! You don't want the kid? Just throw it in the adoption. You say adoptions are broken? How rediculous! There are THOUSANDS of couples wanting children, don't be so selfish!"

 

I'm just kinda quoting the things I've heard. Is it really hard to adopt kids?(I truly don't know) Because if there were many couples wanting kids, there wouldn't be so many unwanted. I think they're waiting for a white child with no special needs, which includes disablilities, or mental problems of depression or anger

[Dr. Paine]

It also has to do with people being completely naive. "Just keep it in your pants! You don't want the kid? Just throw it in the adoption. You say adoptions are broken? How rediculous! There are THOUSANDS of couples wanting children, don't be so selfish!"

 

I'm just kinda quoting the things I've heard. Is it really hard to adopt kids?(I truly don't know) Because if there were many couples wanting kids, there wouldn't be so many unwanted. I think they're waiting for a white child with no special needs, which includes disablilities, or mental problems of depression or anger

The screening process is VERY intensive, and then you have religious agencies that will reject any 'non-traditional' family... so yeah, adoption's kind of a pain in the arse from what I've heard about it.

[daftpunk12]

I'm not really into the abortion argument, but I found this fun fact to share.

Hitlers mom was thinking about getting an abortion, but his mom was convinced not to have one.

 

I think that women should have the right to do what they want with their bodies.

Edited December 29, 2011 by daftpunk12

[LascielsShadow]

It also has to do with people being completely naive. "Just keep it in your pants! You don't want the kid? Just throw it in the adoption. You say adoptions are broken? How rediculous! There are THOUSANDS of couples wanting children, don't be so selfish!"

 

I'm just kinda quoting the things I've heard. Is it really hard to adopt kids?(I truly don't know) Because if there were many couples wanting kids, there wouldn't be so many unwanted. I think they're waiting for a white child with no special needs, which includes disablilities, or mental problems of depression or anger

Precisely. They want perfect little white babies, and guess what most of the kids in the system are NOT? Coupled with how bloody difficult it is to adopt any child, that doesn't leave much hope for the vast majority of kids.

 

Also,

I'm pro-choice. A woman should have the right to decide what to do with her own body. A lot of people are forgetting what a pregnancy entails. Aside from the obvious cases in which things go wrong and the mother actually dies, having a kid the normal way 'mutilates' that.. lower part of the body. It normally heals itself pretty much alright, but there's a lot of women who keep having troubles even though they have had a 'problemless' delivery, like bladder-problems or permanent back-problems.

Yeah, exactly. 'S not a walk in the park. I saved these two links, which show a bit of what pregnancy/giving birth can actually do.

 

Effects of Childbirth

 

Post-natal PTSD

 

Pelvic organ prolapse and PTSD sound like a ton of fun, and totally not stressful or harmful at all.

[Brite]

The screening process is VERY intensive, and then you have religious agencies that will reject any 'non-traditional' family... so yeah, adoption's kind of a pain in the arse from what I've heard  about it.

Oh goodness. I'm christian but I will admit that I absolutely HATE it when people throw religion in with arguments, especially politics. This is why most of my friends aren't religious in any way because it corrupts things.

 

How can you be a religious pro-life but reject a child when it's ethnicity is not of your liking? Pro-birth at it's best. And before the wipe, I've heard someone say that their sick daughter was turned away at a catholic hospital and they're the ones that concider every egg sacred and actually look down upon masturbation and periods when both are 100% natural that "G-d" created.

Edited December 29, 2011 by GhostChilli

[Sorrowgrave]

If I were to get pregnant just because some g-d said so, I'd probably scream at them to go * himself, panic and just not keep the kid.

 

I'm against abortion when it's being used as birth control, in the third trimester and there's no medical reason to the mother or fetus on why it should be aborted and pretty much everytime a bible thumpber says EVERYONE should be a parent

 

other than that, your body your choice.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Sorrowgrave

[Brite]

If I were to get pregnant just because some g-d said so, I'd probably scream at them to go * himself, panic and just not keep the kid.

 

Actually there are some people that think that if you get pregnant, he WANTS you to have a baby.

[Lila]

Actually there are some people that think that if you get pregnant, he WANTS you to have a baby.

If said g-d really loved his people, would he want the world even more grossly over-populated than need be? Does he really want to "test" them with such troubles? I find that cruel and repulsive, and not the least bit loving. Their faith shouldn't need to be tested. If they claim to love their God, he can see if they are lying. The innocent should not have to suffer for the lies of the guilty.

[Brite]

If said g-d really loved his people, would he want the world even more grossly over-populated than need be? Does he really want to "test" them with such troubles? I find that cruel and repulsive, and not the least bit loving. Their faith shouldn't need to be tested. If they claim to love their God, he can see if they are lying. The innocent should not have to suffer for the lies of the guilty.

I agree with this but after all the things I hear from overly obsessed religious people, they make it sound like we're slaves and must put up with anything.

[Zephyrgirl]

If said g-d really loved his people, would he want the world even more grossly over-populated than need be? Does he really want to "test" them with such troubles? I find that cruel and repulsive, and not the least bit loving. Their faith shouldn't need to be tested. If they claim to love their God, he can see if they are lying. The innocent should not have to suffer for the lies of the guilty.

You have some really good points there, however, I believe that your definition of "testing our faith" might be slightly off. God does not put us through things to test us to see if we are truly faithful to Him. Instead, think of it like a practise quiz. These are generally not given to us to test out knowledge, but to rather increase it. Likewise, it is through dificulties that we grow stronger in our faith, not prove to God that we love Him. As for over-population and the like, first off, do you have any solid evidence that the world is overpopulated? From what I've heard so far, this is a widely debated topic and, therefore, a theory, not a fact.

 

As for abortion:

1. Overpopulation: As stated above, is there any solid proof that we are overpopulated? If so, let's try to fix the problem of running out of resources itself before we go killing off babies that will never have a chance to see daylight.

2. Unwanted babies- I know many people aren't going to like this, but if you don't want to get pregnant, just use preventative measures or don't participate in its cause. As for rape, that should be another issue to be solved before the snuffing out of innocent lives.

3. A person should have control over their body- Well, I'm completely fine with that, but a fetus is not merely a body part. A "body part" is defined by the common genetic code it shares with the rest of its body. Since a fetus' genetic code is different than that of the mother's, than it is not a member of her body and therefore, she is not granted control over it.

4. The fetus cannot feel any pain/is not alive- The fetus is a person in a particular stage of development just like a toddler or a child. Things do not become human simply by growing larger and more intellegent. Besides this, do we know for sure the fetus won't feel any pain? Personally, I'd rather not take a chance.

5. What if the child is handicapped and the mother can't handle it?- Well, would she keep it if it were perfectly healthy? If we place our value on size and intellegence, then we also dehumanize other members of our society such as those who are mentally handicapped or suffer from such disorders. Would you go through and kill every mentally handicapped person in America simply because people can't take care of them?

6. Adoption- Yes, I heartily agree that our foster-care system is corrupt, but let's deal with the system itself, not the children who are forced to be placed in it. The reason for so many parentless children is not the fault of the babies themselves, but, rather of the parents and those who have the opportunity to adopt them.

7. Abortion is merciful and humane- Okay, let's put it in these terms. What if that unwanted fetus was you? What if your mom got pregnant accidently or raped and didn't want you? What if she decided to be "humane" and aborted you to keep you from going through the horrors of the foster care system? Would you want that? While adoption might not seem as pleasant as having a family, at least you have a chance to live. Would you want to take away all hope that a baby will even see life in an act of "mercy" over giving the child even a sliver of a chance of living a happy and fulfilling life? Think of it this way. If you learned that you had something teminally wrong with you and were going to die unless you went through some extremely dangerous procedure, would you choose to go through the ordeal to have atleast a tiny chance of living, or turn down the procedure because it's too dangerous even when you know you're going to die anyway?

8. Should a mother's life take precedence over that of the fetus?- I'll admit this is a sticky question that I for sure don't know the answer to. However, I must say that prevention should be the key in avoiding this sort of situation. If you know there is something wrong with you, then do your best to prevent getting pregnant.

 

I do not mean to hurt or offend any one, I simply wanted to state my opinion and the reasons I have to back it, so please don't take any of this extremely personally.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Zephyrgirl

[Brite]

If so, let's try to fix the problem of running out of resources itself before we go killing off babies that will never have a chance to see daylight.

 

Babies aren't being killed off. Cells that have the potential to become babies are.

 

but if you don't want to get pregnant, just use preventative measures or don't participate in its cause.

Protection can fail and sex is a bond.

 

Well, I'm completely fine with that, but a fetus is not merely a body part. A "body part" is defined by the common genetic code it shares with the rest of its body. Since a fetus' genetic code is different than that of the mother's, than it is not a member of her body and therefore, she is not granted control over it.

 

It's living off of me, using my blood, I have every right to pull the plug if I want. She will trump it.

 

The fetus is a person in a particular stage of development just like a toddler or a child.

 

So you're saying it can run around, laugh, eat, cry, and certainly throw tantrums? And it may not become human.

 

Okay, let's put it in these terms. What if that unwanted fetus was you? What if your mom got pregnant accidently or raped and didn't want you?

 

This has been asked many times. MANY children said they would have rather been aborted and some commit suicide. If I was aborted, then that's it. I wouldn't have cared because I wouldn't have been consious.

 

 

[ShadoWolf800]

^ This

[Zephyrgirl]

Babies aren't being killed off. Cells that have the potential to become babies are.

Just one quick question. Where is your proof that a fetus is only cells that are merely a potential baby? How can we know for sure?

[Brite]

Just one quick question. Where is your proof that a fetus is only cells that are merely a potential baby? How can we know for sure?

Because these cells can go wrong and become a tumor, parasitic mass to the mother or a twin(ever heard of parasitic twins? Not siamese, but parasitic, some people get this confused), a calcium mass, and be reabsorbed by the body.

Edited December 29, 2011 by GhostChilli

[hazeh]

A fertilized egg =/= baby.

[Brite]

Pretty much

[Lila]

1. Overpopulation: As stated above, is there any solid proof that we are overpopulated? If so, let's try to fix the problem of running out of resources itself before we go killing off babies that will never have a chance to see daylight.

 

Yes, in fact there is. We are killing off other species in order to accommodate ourselves. We are over-concentrated in most areas, only because the rest of the Earth is either inaccessible or not resourceful enough for us.

 

2. Unwanted babies- I know many people aren't going to like this, but if you don't want to get pregnant, just use preventative measures or don't participate in its cause. As for rape, that should be another issue to be solved before the snuffing out of innocent lives.

As GhostChilli said, prevention fails and sex is a bond. And you cannot completely solve the issue of rape. Sorry, but coming from someone who went through that, and has seen it happen countless times, it's kind of ridiculous that you think it can be completely solved.

 

3. A person should have control over their body- Well, I'm completely fine with that, but a fetus is not merely a body part. A "body part" is defined by the common genetic code it shares with the rest of its body. Since a fetus' genetic code is different than that of the mother's, than it is not a member of her body and therefore, she is not granted control over it.

So, does that mean if there is a tapeworm inside of our body, we cannot kill it?

 

4. The fetus cannot feel any pain/is not alive- The fetus is a person in a particular stage of development just like a toddler or a child. Things do not become human simply by growing larger and more intellegent. Besides this, do we know for sure the fetus won't feel any pain? Personally, I'd rather not take a chance.

It is true that it is a homo sapien in a stage of development, but it is not a person. It does not have emotion, thoughts, memories, or a sentient view of its surroundings. It has no life, per se. It is living but it does not have a life. We are not giving it a chance, because by giving it a chance we may endanger the mother or the possible child.

 

5. What if the child is handicapped and the mother can't handle it?- Well, would she keep it if it were perfectly healthy? If we place our value on size and intellegence, then we also dehumanize other members of our society such as those who are mentally handicapped or suffer from such disorders. Would you go through and kill every mentally handicapped person in America simply because people can't take care of them?

Your response is ridiculous for this reason: Healthy children are (medical expenses wise) cheaper and mentally easier to care for. Would you want a squatter taking care of a baby with asthma? Would you want a mentally unstable woman taking care of an autistic child? Just because some people are suited to care for more high-maintenance people doesn't mean that other people are. Don't force a child to have a life with no quality just because it's a "life".

 

6. Adoption- Yes, I heartily agree that our foster-care system is corrupt, but let's deal with the system itself, not the children who are forced to be placed in it. The reason for so many parentless children is not the fault of the babies themselves, but, rather of the parents and those who have the opportunity to adopt them.

We need to stop putting children in the system because it is already too full to begin with, and revision would require a more flexible group of people.

 

7. Abortion is merciful and humane- Okay, let's put it in these terms. What if that unwanted fetus was you? What if your mom got pregnant accidently or raped and didn't want you? What if she decided to be "humane" and aborted you to keep you from going through the horrors of the foster care system? Would you want that? While adoption might not seem as pleasant as having a family, at least you have a chance to live. Would you want to take away all hope that a baby will even see life in an act of "mercy" over giving the child even a sliver of a chance of living a happy and fulfilling life? Think of it this way. If you learned that you had something teminally wrong with you and were going to die unless you went through some extremely dangerous procedure, would you choose to go through the ordeal to have atleast a tiny chance of living, or turn down the procedure because it's too dangerous even when you know you're going to die anyway?

You're lucky to be alive. Those words tortured me for the longest time. What if I didn't want to be alive? What if I don't even have the chance to make something of myself? If my mother had aborted me, I wouldn't have a thought about it because I never would have existed, and that wouldn't matter because no one knows what I would have been anyway. If any greater being has a say in life, and wanted one particular soul to reach the world, I'm pretty damn sure said being wouldn't give up after ONE abortion.

 

[Nine]

1. Overpopulation: As stated above, is there any solid proof that we are overpopulated? If so, let's try to fix the problem of running out of resources itself before we go killing off babies that will never have a chance to see daylight.

I feel bad responding to this since it's not really pertaining to the topic, but eh-- it's always good to get some facts out there.

 

Overpopulation is a bit hard to describe in terms of humans, as we have done pretty well in evading and preventing natural methods of culling overpopulation. Is it considered 'overpopulated' only when there is absolutely no room and no food left, or should we go by nature's perceived description where an overpopulation is simply above a healthy, supportive number? Humans are unique in their ability to completely override natural forces such as disease, famine, environmental changes and such. We commercially raise millions of animals to slaughter for meat because there is no way a natural living population of animals could support such desire, and even then we are depleting natural stocks to crippling levels (overfishing is a huge problem).

Medicines, surgeries, and health care in general have done their part in preventing population-stabilizing diseases, even eradicating them completely from certain areas. Disease is an extremely important part in maintaining a healthy population, as overcrowding leads to easy spread of disease, creates stress that lowers immune response, decreases food levels, adds more competition, etc. A percentage of young are usually expected to die after birth or before puberty, but with modern technology this number has been reduced.

 

Due to our manipulation and creation of weapons, we have very few natural enemies. Those creatures who could be possibly perceived as a threat to ourselves are often at a large disadvantage due to reducing of their numbers, destruction of habitat, poisoning, hunting, reduction of prey, introduction of competition, and so on. There's really no creature that actively hunts us as a food source (parasites and diseases exempt).

 

Through housing and habitat clearing, we are able to fit a large population of humans in what would otherwise we considered inadequate space. This allows the continuation of breeding without readily apparent drawbacks in most places. We're pretty much designed to not think so far ahead of the future and theorize how one surviving child could lead to an increase of 500.

 

TL;DR: Because of factors such as modern medicine, no natural predators, agriculture and ability to live in most every environment, the human population has gone above the "healthy" limit on a global scale. While things may not be at a soylent green level, it's not completely ridiculous to think that we are overpopulated as a species.

 

BTW, I'm obviously still for abortion... pro-choice, whatever term suits. So hopefully this post isn't 100% off-topic now.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Nine

[Lila]

^^ Yea.

[skinst]

God does not put us through things to test us to see if we are truly faithful to Him. Instead, think of it like a practise quiz.

Proof, please. And don't quote the Bible.

 

These are generally not given to us to test out knowledge, but to rather increase it. Likewise, it is through dificulties that we grow stronger in our faith, not prove to God that we love Him.

If growing stronger in faith means I have to be forced to be pregnant after being raped/molested/birth control failure and I am not in a position to raise my child, then I'm extremely glad I do not believe in the same higher power you do.

 

As for over-population and the like, first off, do you have any solid evidence that the world is overpopulated?

In various places, very much so. Why do you think China introduced a one child only birth policy?

 

If so, let's try to fix the problem of running out of resources itself before we go killing off babies that will never have a chance to see daylight.

Over a third of abortions are due to rape. Quite a number are also due to molestation, and even moreso from men tampering with the woman's birth control. Address the source before you blame the result.

 

I know many people aren't going to like this, but if you don't want to get pregnant, just use preventative measures or don't participate in its cause. As for rape, that should be another issue to be solved before the snuffing out of innocent lives.

So are you vegan? And if so, what about plant life? What about those pesky bugs that are just as innocent and, believe it or not, just as insignificant as the clump of cells you are trying to 'save'?

 

I'm completely fine with that, but a fetus is not merely a body part. A "body part" is defined by the common genetic code it shares with the rest of its body. Since a fetus' genetic code is different than that of the mother's, than it is not a member of her body and therefore, she is not granted control over it.

By that logic, tapeworms, virus's, cancerous growths and tumors should not be removed either, because they do/can have unique DNA. And before you pull the 'its a life!' or 'it's a person' or 'its a human' card on me, whichever you choose, hate to tell you, but scientifically its not any of those yet.

 

The fetus is a person in a particular stage of development just like a toddler or a child. Things do not become human simply by growing larger and more intellegent. Besides this, do we know for sure the fetus won't feel any pain? Personally, I'd rather not take a chance.

If you personally don't want to, fine. But you have NO right denying others, because that goes against your very logic. You're saying woman don't have the right to control a fetus growing in their body, because it isn't them?

 

How come YOU and other pro-birther's get to control the bodies of BILLIONS of woman just because you don't like or agree with abortion then? Why does YOUR agenda get to decide the fate of just as many lives, because you don't LIKE something?

 

Well, would she keep it if it were perfectly healthy? If we place our value on size and intellegence, then we also dehumanize other members of our society such as those who are mentally handicapped or suffer from such disorders. Would you go through and kill every mentally handicapped person in America simply because people can't take care of them?

Both of my brothers were/are handicapped and they were wanted. I was the only baby that was perfectly healthy and I was almost aborted.

 

Think about that.

 

Yes, I heartily agree that our foster-care system is corrupt, but let's deal with the system itself, not the children who are forced to be placed in it. The reason for so many parentless children is not the fault of the babies themselves, but, rather of the parents and those who have the opportunity to adopt them.

No, the reason there are so many parentless children is because pro-birther's such as yourself convince mothers to keep children they do not want in the first place. If they had of been aborted, they could have been saved from that hell.

 

Okay, let's put it in these terms. What if that unwanted fetus was you? What if your mom got pregnant accidently or raped and didn't want you? What if she decided to be "humane" and aborted you to keep you from going through the horrors of the foster care system? Would you want that?

I wouldn't know because I wouldn't exist, which makes your point kinda moot.

 

While adoption might not seem as pleasant as having a family, at least you have a chance to live. Would you want to take away all hope that a baby will even see life in an act of "mercy" over giving the child even a sliver of a chance of living a happy and fulfilling life?

There are worse things in life than death, and some things that are better off not living through.

 

Think of it this way. If you learned that you had something teminally wrong with you and were going to die unless you went through some extremely dangerous procedure, would you choose to go through the ordeal to have atleast a tiny chance of living, or turn down the procedure because it's too dangerous even when you know you're going to die anyway?

How exactly is this even relevant? O_o;

 

I'll admit this is a sticky question that I for sure don't know the answer to. However, I must say that prevention should be the key in avoiding this sort of situation.

Prevention, my friend, is not getting rid of abortion. It is sorting out why abortion is needed in the first place.

 

Want to know why?

 

It's because Pro-Birther's such as yourself have decided that we'd better teach abstience only education to kids, which has been proven to be ineffective, instead of real, solid sexual education. It is because quite a few men still believe it is their right to force woman to bear them children. It is because quite a few sick men still believe it is their right to have power over woman, and have sex with them even if they don't want to (i.e RAPE).

 

It is because sicker men still believe little girls are sexual objects, and should be violated against their will. (i.e MOLESTATION).

 

It is because bigoted polititions think that the world is all flowers and roses, and that all of the above doesn't happen as much as it does.

 

Change the above first, and I can guarentee that there will not be as many abortions in your country anymore. If you don't believe me, check out the stats in countries like Sweden and France, where abortion is legal, safe and they aren't taught 'Abstinence only' rubbish in schools as their sexual education.

 

If you know there is something wrong with you, then do your best to prevent getting pregnant.

Unfortunetly, unless woman are over the age of 35 and already HAVE children, they cannot be sterilised in America.

 

I do not mean to hurt or offend any one, I simply wanted to state my opinion and the reasons I have to back it, so please don't take any of this extremely personally.

None taken. Hopefully you in turn will not find any of these posts offensive.

[Sorrowgrave]

Women are human beings, NOT baby makers.

 

It's not sad when a couple doesn't have children because they don't want them, it's sad when a couple doesn't have them because of fertility issues and the adoption system won't let them adopt.

 

If more people realized this and stopped forcing women to have children they can't take care of or in the case of rape do not want and insome cases with birth defects and low survival odds don't want to go threw that kind of heart break then the amount of kids in the adoption pool *might* go down a little bit.

 

Of course I'm adding in women who would keep the baby because of personal beliefs and for that slim chance that their baby would survive what ever defect they have

 

I love how McCain and Palin don't say anything about helping that problem.

 

though baby= wanted fetus in my book instead of what most pro-lifers say calling all stages of development a baby in an effort to guilt the mother.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Sorrowgrave

[xhunter]

As for abortion:

1. Overpopulation: As stated above, is there any solid proof that we are overpopulated? If so, let's try to fix the problem of running out of resources itself before we go killing off babies that will never have a chance to see daylight.

 

3. A person should have control over their body- Well, I'm completely fine with that, but a fetus is not merely a body part. A "body part" is defined by the common genetic code it shares with the rest of its body. Since a fetus' genetic code is different than that of the mother's, than it is not a member of her body and therefore, she is not granted control over it.

 

4. The fetus cannot feel any pain/is not alive- The fetus is a person in a particular stage of development just like a toddler or a child. Things do not become human simply by growing larger and more intellegent. Besides this, do we know for sure the fetus won't feel any pain? Personally, I'd rather not take a chance.

 

5. What if the child is handicapped and the mother can't handle it?- Well, would she keep it if it were perfectly healthy? If we place our value on size and intellegence, then we also dehumanize other members of our society such as those who are mentally handicapped or suffer from such disorders. Would you go through and kill every mentally handicapped person in America simply because people can't take care of them?

 

6. Adoption- Yes, I heartily agree that our foster-care system is corrupt, but let's deal with the system itself, not the children who are forced to be placed in it. The reason for so many parentless children is not the fault of the babies themselves, but, rather of the parents and those who have the opportunity to adopt them.

 

7. Abortion is merciful and humane- Okay, let's put it in these terms. What if that unwanted fetus was you? What if your mom got pregnant accidently or raped and didn't want you? What if she decided to be "humane" and aborted you to keep you from going through the horrors of the foster care system? Would you want that? While adoption might not seem as pleasant as having a family, at least you have a chance to live. Would you want to take away all hope that a baby will even see life in an act of "mercy" over giving the child even a sliver of a chance of living a happy and fulfilling life? Think of it this way. If you learned that you had something teminally wrong with you and were going to die unless you went through some extremely dangerous procedure, would you choose to go through the ordeal to have atleast a tiny chance of living, or turn down the procedure because it's too dangerous even when you know you're going to die anyway?

8. Should a mother's life take precedence over that of the fetus?- I'll admit this is a sticky question that I for sure don't know the answer to. However, I must say that prevention should be the key in avoiding this sort of situation. If you know there is something wrong with you, then do your best to prevent getting pregnant.

 

I do not mean to hurt or offend any one, I simply wanted to state my opinion and the reasons I have to back it, so please don't take any of this extremely personally.

1. Overpopulation is real though i think i see where your coming from. most people, and i think most religious, see it differently from the main defention that others have come to the conclusion.

 

Too many people+limited jobs+limited food, water, goods, other resources+limited homes and territory= Overpopulation.

 

the easiest way to explain it. sometimes overpopulation can be over looked for years though it adds up if people keep pushing out babies like theirs no tomorrow. Overpopulation is a real problem because if your not careful it can kill a society faster than you can blink. 'Great leader' as they call themselves that shoot down abortion are not so Great it leaves the next leader to deal with the problem they sewn. that's America's greatest problem, mess it up today and leave it for the next person to handle. and before you shoot me down i am american. South Carolinian to be more precise.

 

if you ask me America's media encourages people to make offspring by showing shows with babies and not showing the negatives and the costs, they just make raising a baby look easy, not costly, and a OK. babies cost, they get sick, you have to watch everything they do, everything they eat, drink, play with, as well as the risks when they get sick, and you can't always keep them safe when your dirt poor and can't stay home to watch them if your single. note that i'm not trying to be harsh but its true. many females too will go out and have offspring just so they can get financial aid for their homes and go to colleges because their either lazy or they can't get a job because of no job openings.

 

this gives other counties something to sit down after a hard day of work something to laugh at knowing that their lucky to have health benefits, so don't have to worry about ever being homeless because their gov. provides and cares for them even if they have all these laws and have to work their fingers to the bone. i can't see how some of them can believe that america could be a world of opportunity, granted some do after hard work and luck become famous and rich.

 

3. a woman does not have control no matter how you spin it if they have to carry a child they do not want. a baby 'is' an body part till it comes out and/or developed a brain and starts breathing in some cases, depending on beliefs. though even after the cells mutate into another code that makes them the fetus its part of the mother because the mother has to carry it and feed it threw its connecting cord. and because of that the mother should be able to decide if she does not want it, sometimes if the mother does not want it very badly she will starve herself or her hormones will cancel the pregnancy. their are a lot of nasty unsafe ways to get rid of a offspring if abortion becomes illegal like drinking, starvation, drugs, punches to the stomach, sickness, ect.

 

4. yes but that is a risk to take to prevent it from feeling years of pain in a system or knowing that when it get older and it can't get a job it has to leech off of its parent or others in order to survive. that's not fun to feel that, knowing you don't add up to much because all the jobs you try for don't ever happen. feeling helpless as a child is not worth it if it can be ended before it starts with one quick end.

 

5. Handicapped changes nothing other than most can't, when they get older, work or support their selves alone. most creatures kill their handicapped offspring to protect their generations as well as save space for healthy ones that will survive. note though that most handicapped people have a advantage and can work effectively with others to use their gifts. though most just draw checks and contentiosly breed and produce more mentally or physicality damaged children.

 

6. yes it's the parents though the gov. can't just go clip every persons reproductive systems for producing these offspring because they can't tell if it was for fault of the parent or unfortant because the parent just learned they could not care for it.

fault by parents

note though too most children parents were not born in the states and are brought here just to protect the child from death because if any child is born in the state it becomes a citizen auto. nothing agents the children but this helps the over flow of children in the system but you can't just throw the child back to the parent even though there forced back into their country, this is by fault of the parent not child. or those that are in the states that don't believe in birth control that have sex and pushes out kids like no tomorrow. they can't keep all the children and DSS has to throw some of them into the system.

unfortant parents

decide to have a child and have everything planned. they get it on, and nine months it comes, bad day at work or parent dies leaving one parent to hold all costs as well as get a job to support themselves. they can't get a good job and bills go unpayed and their is no food in the house. they either decide to put it up for adoption and/or DSS has to take the child. might be rare though it can't be helped.

 

7. if it was me then i would say pull the darn plug in a matter of speech. i never wanted to be born and i can't even remember as far back as my first days so i now i new nothing then or really did not feel anything. i would respect my mom more if she had gotten the abortion though i would never exist so there would be no meaning to feel hate or love for what happened. having a chance to live is not humane if you can't support yourself, feed yourself, having to watch others suffer to keep you alive, get an second job in a gas station running the risk of getting robbed or becoming dangerously sleep deprived because their the only one with a education degree for the single parent that gets her child away from a man that would hit her, and remembering just enough as that you can't get the image of the man hitting your mom running out of the house and abandoning the two children even after trying to get the court order to get the children back and being turned down because she can stay home and take care of the kid because she has to got to the mills and make a living to support herself and try to support the children when the male neglects to feed them. now does that sound like something you would like to remember? i know its something i tried hard to unremember.

 

so yes i would have been happy for her to abort and if i could i would make it were she never met him. so please don't try and handicapped off the would you rather deny life to save it from mercy, i don't want to sound mean though a lot of people will agree.

8. not poking too much here though sometimes its not the mothers choice to get pregnant. she can use birth control though sometimes the male will tamper with it, i think someone else had pointed it out before on the thread, so that the female will be 'held down' and/or the child will be used to force the mother to stay with a abusive spouse. though sometimes the female can use it to hold down a male but its not as often. ((anyone correct me if i'm wrong))

 

no offence taken sense its your right to have your own thoughts, i'm just stating my opinion on your opinion.

 

edit: sorrowgrave. their just saving face so that they can gain some power, though they probably will fallow threw with what they say on it.

 

i would never vote because any way you look at it we are f'd because of people like them with no common knowledge on facts because they just save face as well as what people want and what they don't need based on a few.

Edited December 29, 2011 by xhunter

[Brite]

Women are human beings, NOT baby makers.

 

Which is why I loath seeing men pro-birthers, it's like they're trying to keep women in check.

[StormWizard212]

... there are laws in place dictating when and when not it is okay to terminate a pregnancy. Anything past the first three months is almost a blanket no, the only exceptions coming when there is no hope to save the fetus, and the mother will wind up dying if it's not ended.

Yes I know that there are, I was just stating where I stand on the matter, since this is a debate thread after all. Just because something is already in place, it doesn't mean that I can't agree with it.

 

Though depending on the circumstances and location, these laws still differ. What I was trying to say was that I find that the more important issue than whether abortion should be legal at all, because as far as I'm concerned, there's no question that it should be.

Edited December 29, 2011 by StormWizard212