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Time to give my opinion on this and ignore the previous bickering.

 

I believe, yes, abortion should be allowed.

 

However, ONLY if you're over 18 and it's in the first two trimesters.

 

Otherwise, just have the baby and learn your lesson.

What about girls who get pregnant from rape/abuse?

 

Honestly they are the ones who need the service the most.

 

EDIT: Treating the pregnancy like a punishment horrible, especially since the guy typically can get off with very little repercusions (going to college is still open to him unlike the girl)

Edited by brairtrainer

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Time to give my opinion on this and ignore the previous bickering.

 

I believe, yes, abortion should be allowed.

 

However, ONLY if you're over 18 and it's in the first two trimesters.

 

Otherwise, just have the baby and learn your lesson.

So uh, if a 12-year old girl(or anyone under 18 for that matter) gets pregnant because she was raped, she should be forced to "learn a lesson" and try not to get raped next time???

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Otherwise, just have the baby and learn your lesson.

This mentality is honestly TERRIFYING. Especially since you advocate that it should be for CHILDREN (since you said only over 18 should be allowed to have abortions).

 

Why is it OK to use a child as punishment? You would force a woman to drop out of school and practically have to give up her entire life just because her morals don't agree with yours? Also, many children that end up in foster care attempt suicide, and I believe the majority wish they had been aborted (in case you were going with the "well, she can just give it up for adoption" angle). Your forcing both the mother and child to suffer, potentially life-long suffering, just because you think she was too promiscuous. In my opinion, that is WAY too harsh for her supposed "crime".

 

Honestly, having an abortion is taking responsibility. It's realizing that you can't give the potential child the life and happiness it deserves; realizing that it's better off not to be born.

 

Also, I think this is a horrible way to teach a lesson. Many people end up pregnant because they had terrible sex education. This is kind of like saying "oh, well I'm sorry you never got swimming lessons, but you should have known better than to get in the water, so now I'm refusing to save you. Trust me, you'll learn better for next time."

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What about girls who get pregnant from rape/abuse?

 

Honestly they are the ones who need the service the most.

 

EDIT: Treating the pregnancy like a punishment horrible, especially since the guy typically can get off with very little repercusions (going to college is still open to him unlike the girl)

I hope you realize I'm not that heartless.

 

I forgot to include that if one is pregnant because of rape, than abortion is most likely needed.

 

Also, I apologize for coming off as so brash.

Edited by SuicideMachine

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I hope you realize I'm not that heartless.

 

I forgot to include that if one is pregnant because of rape, than abortion is most likely needed.

So I guess 18 is some magical age where people who can get pregnant are suddenly allowed to have sex, then? But before that it's a dirty, disgusting adult thing, and to punish them for doing this adult thing, they should be forced to suddenly become a parent, likely having to give up future dreams of college or more than a minimum wage job, if they can even finish HS?

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So I guess 18 is some magical age where people who can get pregnant are suddenly allowed to have sex, then? But before that it's a dirty, disgusting adult thing, and to punish them for doing this adult thing, they should be forced to suddenly become a parent, likely having to give up future dreams of college or more than a minimum wage job, if they can even finish HS?

*Sigh* No.

 

18 is the minimum for other things, so I'm basing it off that.

 

And I'm not saying you can't have sex before, just that you're taking a risk, and the outcome of the risk could result in unwanted pregnancy.

 

Also, standards need to change about how teenage moms are perceived.

 

(In hindsight, maybe I never should have posted.)

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I hope you realize I'm not that heartless.

 

I forgot to include that if one is pregnant because of rape, than abortion is most likely needed.

Whether is was rape or not you should never force a child to give birth to another child.

 

*Sigh* No.

 

18 is the minimum for other things, so I'm basing it off that.

 

And I'm not saying you can't have sex before, just that you're taking a risk, and the outcome of the risk could result in unwanted pregnancy.

 

Also, standards need to change about how teenage moms are perceived.

 

(In hindsight, maybe I never should have posted.)

This is not something that should have an age limit, you cannot compare it to drinking alcohol or smoking cigarettes.

 

Have you ever thought that the young couple did indeed use protection but it failed? Condoms break and if you don't take birth control religiously you can end up pregnant.

Edited by Cecona

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*Sigh* No.

 

18 is the minimum for other things, so I'm basing it off that.

 

And I'm not saying you can't have sex before, just that you're taking a risk, and the outcome of the risk could result in unwanted pregnancy.

 

Also, standards need to change about how teenage moms are perceived.

 

(In hindsight, maybe I never should have posted.)

Sure, but we all get medical care before we're 18. People under 18 get pregnant, so why can't they also have a choice. Abortion is actually 10x more safe than childbirth, so I see no reason why they should be denied the medical choice of abortion and be forced to go through the medical risk of pregnancy if they don't want to be pregnant.

 

Pregnancy is hard, especially on young bodies, like teens.

 

I agree that there's a lot of bias against teen mothers, but that doesn't really have anything to do with "teaching them their lesson" and forcing them to have a child. It doesn't change the fact that there are some teens forced into keeping their pregnancy, and that just shouldn't happen. And when you're forced into keeping a pregnancy, denied the choice, how much harder do you think it will be for them to balance having a child and their future career they wanted?

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*Sigh* No.

 

18 is the minimum for other things, so I'm basing it off that.

 

And I'm not saying you can't have sex before, just that you're taking a risk, and the outcome of the risk could result in unwanted pregnancy.

 

Also, standards need to change about how teenage moms are perceived.

 

(In hindsight, maybe I never should have posted.)

Uh....a lot of things have risk if you dont have the right precautions.

Edited by BlightWyvern

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So basically we should use children as punishment?

That's probably the worst argument on the pro-life side I hear. How "If you get pregnant than you should be responsible and birth the thing." what about if something gets tampered with or some freak accident. Yeah? Well what about rape? "Oh you shouldn't punish the "poor defenseless cell mass". So what about the womans mental health, and HER life? She already has memories, a life goal/purpose, family and friends and bonds she formed.

 

My mom is harping on me about not joining the church for it's "Walk for Life". Of course I'm not going to tell her my views....yet....because for one, I don;t want to be told I'm cold, heartless, and will rot in hell forever. dry.gif

Edited by BlightWyvern

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That's probably the worst argument on the pro-life side I hear. How "If you get pregnant than you should be responsible and birth the thing." what about if something gets tampered with or some freak accident. Yeah? Well what about rape? "Oh you shouldn't punish the "poor defenseless cell mass". So what about the womans mental health, and HER life? She already has memories, a life goal/purpose, family and friends and bonds she formed.

 

My mom is harping on me about not joining the church for it's "Walk for Life". Of course I'm not going to tell her my views....yet....because for one, I don;t want to be told I'm cold, heartless, and will rot in hell forever. dry.gif

FYI I am pro-choice.

 

I just tend to suck at wording things.

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FYI I am pro-choice.

 

I just tend to suck at wording things.

Hmm? Oh, I wasn't directing my comments at anyone specific.

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My mom is harping on me about not joining the church for it's "Walk for Life". Of course I'm not going to tell her my views....yet....because for one, I don;t want to be told I'm cold, heartless, and will rot in hell forever. dry.gif

Your mom sounds pretty strict, THaT's pretty horrible if she would tell you such things over a simple disagreement.

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Time to give my opinion on this and ignore the previous bickering.

 

I believe, yes, abortion should be allowed.

 

However, ONLY if you're over 18 and it's in the first two trimesters.

 

Otherwise, just have the baby and learn your lesson.

WTF. So if a 14 year old gets pregnant you say she can't abort???

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Just fyi, 18 is not the basis for everything. There are parts of the US where the legal age is 16 or 17. Why, I have no freaking idea. If you go into Mexico, the legal age of consent can get down to THIRTEEN.

 

So using "the minimum age for things" really has NO place in determining whether a female who gets pregnant should be ALLOWED to terminate her OWN pregnancy.

 

And just to put it in perspective, every single time I step outside my house I am "taking a risk" of getting killed or severely injured by someone on skates, or something dropping from the 3rd story, or tripping over a rock..... Sure, sex can be "risky" but so can EVERY SINGLE OTHER THING ON THIS EARTH.

 

That does not mean that the female in question should be forced to carry a parasite inside her that may kill her, just because she did something "risky".

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Also, if you hate kids and don't want to have any, have your tubes tied. Simple. My mom had her tubes tied after me (oh god, that sounds so bad ;A; ). Yes I understand the risks of that procedure too, fyi.

Apparently you are unaware of the fact that in most places if you're not 30+ and have three kids already it is IMPOSSIBLE to find a doctor to perform any kind of surgical sterilization. Our culture is very invested in the idea that Women Want Children and will Change Their Mind One Day.

 

I'm disgusted with myself :/

Why? Being capable of analyzing information and changing an opinion based on new data is an important part of being a decent person. You're innocent, but you seem to mean well.

 

 

Too many foster families are in it for the money and don't bother to actually care for the children. It's highly possible for them to be physically or sexually assaulted, and not always by the adults. A severely large number of children are taken from abusive and/or drug addicted parents and what abuse that has been done to them, they end up doing to other children. And it's highly likely the children have mental problems that may be unknown, or just neglected and untreated as well. Most likely, the kids simply end up becoming too old to stay in the system and are kicked out onto the streets or placed in a half way house.

My bf's family used to do foster care, they eventually quit because of the shenanigans social services pulled all the time. Like dropping off an older boy, telling the dad to put him in a room and set up an alarm, and if he left the room evacuate the house and call the cops. This kid had a record of sexually assaulting younger kids and bf's youngest bio bro was at the age that kid targeted(Dad told them to pick that kid up right then or he was taking him to the nearest police station, they replied that they were an hour away and they'd only been gone 20 min). They knew they were putting a young child at risk and they didn't care.

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Can you tell your smart, sweet brother, in the face, that he's unwanted and unloved? I hope NOT! unsure.gif Your post (the one I quoted) made it sound like you were prepared to tell children all over the world, kids just like your brother, that they are unwanted and unloved.

 

Children should be born wanted and loved but many aren't. What kind of life is that? sad.gif

How in the world did you get "Unwanted" and "unloved out of that?! Did you miss the part where I said I LOVED HIM?! Don't bring my brother up anymore. You have no business talking about him or using in any example. He is one of the kindest, gentlest, smartest, genuinely awesome, cutest, easy to handle children I have ever had the pleasure of having in my life. There is nobody I would rather have as my brother!

I hope I made myself crystal clear.

 

And to clarify, meant that yes, he has Autism, which makes him harder to handle than most kids. But I still love him more than life itself, so it's all worth it in the end.

 

Lol, I was shaking the entire time I was typing this hehe (Due to being angry and emotional just thinking about him XP )

 

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How in the world did you get "Unwanted" and "unloved out of that?! Did you miss the part where I said I LOVED HIM?! Don't bring my brother up anymore. You have no business talking about him or using in any example. He is one of the kindest, gentlest, smartest, genuinely awesome, cutest, easy to handle children I have ever had the pleasure of having in my life. There is nobody I would rather have as my brother!

I hope I made myself crystal clear.

 

And to clarify, meant that yes, he has Autism, which makes him harder to handle than most kids. But I still love him more than life itself, so it's all worth it in the end.

 

Lol, I was shaking the entire time I was typing this hehe (Due to being angry and emotional just thinking about him XP )

You do, but what about your "greedy" step mother? You talked about her wanting an abortion and then all of a sudden cut her out of the equation, as if she has no part in her son's life. It is a bit confusing.

 

When you say "you can hate the kid, but just don't terminate it", those are children that are unwanted and unloved. You can be sure they know that. Kids pick up on those things.

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Well, I live in Canada so...

 

Edit: Thanks. I really do mean well. I find it hard to express an opinion on such a touchy subject without coming off as a insensitive jerk who thinks woman shouldn't be able to have an abortion and hates kids.

P.S I love kids

As far as I am aware the sterilisation one is also an issue in Canada. I *know* it is here in the UK - where cost is not an issue if the NHS can be persuaded to do it. As it is.... standing policy is "not if they're under 35 and/or have no children already".

 

A quick search turned up reports that women in their 20's with 2 kids were being denied tubal ligation in Canada. So, yeah, they're still pretty convinced that if women are under 30 they'll change their minds at some point.

 

This despite that only 20% of women that *do* have to procedure under the age of 30 express any regret over it. It's on 6% that express any regret in those forced to wait until they are over 30.

 

Incidently I'm trans, and the idea of pregnancy terrifies me to the core. I've been asking every 6 months for the last 7 years if they'll sterelise me yet - the answer is still no. I turn 30 next year, but they'll probably still keep saying no as I don't have kids (and I don't want them, which is why I want to be sterelised).

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You do, but what about your "greedy" step mother? You talked about her wanting an abortion and then all of a sudden cut her out of the equation, as if she has no part in her son's life. It is a bit confusing.

 

When you say "you can hate the kid, but just don't terminate it", those are children that are unwanted and unloved. You can be sure they know that. Kids pick up on those things.

My step mother does almost nothing with him emotionally. I'm the one that practically raised him for the first 2 and a half years of his life. Did you see the reason why she wanted the abortion?

 

My new opinion on abortion:

It should he available to all woman with a valid reason. As in she isn't mentally stable enough to handle such an emotional event, she is physically/financially unable to support the child (as in sick, poor, jobless, etc...), said female was raped (which could fall under all the points) or the mother would die into the process. These are just A FEW reasons from the top of my head, not saying this is all of them. This is what I would be okay with if I were to vote pro-choice.

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My step mother does almost nothing with him emotionally. I'm the one that practically raised him for the first 2 and a half years of his life. Did you see the reason why she wanted the abortion?

 

My new opinion on abortion:

It should he available to all woman with a valid reason. As in she isn't mentally stable enough to handle such an emotional event, she is physically/financially unable to support the child (as in sick, poor, jobless, etc...), said female was raped (which could fall under all the points) or the mother would die into the process. These are just A FEW reasons from the top of my head, not saying this is all of them. This is what I would be okay with if I were to vote pro-choice.

So then he is unloved and unwanted by his mother, as CatCreature (oops, wrong name, sorry!) was getting at.

 

Yes, I did. I do not think that makes her greedy or selfish or shallow or any other word one might use. Pregnancy permanently changes your body. It's dangerous, even in this day and age. It can leave you with long-lasting health issues. So she wanted to stay thin? That's her choice. It doesn't sound like she was ill-equipped to handle pa pregnancy (that she was possibly forced to go through with?), so why would you want to force someone who isn't ready for pregnancy through pregnancy and childbirth? It's a cruel thing to do that can leave lifelong health issues.

 

~

 

So how are you going to enforce that a pregnant person have a good enough reason for an abortion? Do we create new jobs for people to "inspect" the lives of pregnant people who want an abortion? Procedures like this can extend the amount of time until someone can get an abortion to the point where they may not be able to get an abortion anymore. Many people get abortion for financial reasons. Is this search into their life going to set them back even further? Abortion is less expensive than childbirth and childcare, but it's not exactly inexpensive. What about people with abusive partners? It's not going to help anything if a sudden invasion into their life tips off the abuser to what they were doing. What about teens who have abusive parents? Same thing. Rape is hard enough in court. It rarely gets reported because of the victim blaming survivors face and the fact that only a small minority of rapists see any jail time. So how would rape be proved? Mental health faces many stigmas. A lot of people run into the problem of people not believing them because they 'act fine'. Or they 'aren't ill enough'. Many people may have mental health issues but have no diagnosis. So how does one prove mental stability or mental instability for pregnancy anyway?

 

Can't we just leave this choice up to the pregnant person? It's their sentient life that is going to be changed if denied an abortion. Can't we just trust people to know what they are ready and willing to handle with their bodies and their lives?

 

People don't just go getting abortions willy-nilly or lightly. Anybody getting an abortion has their reason why. Who are we to decide whether or not this is valid?

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Any reason a woman wants/needs an abortion is a good enough reason to have one.

 

Doesn't seem to be much simpler than that.

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My new opinion on abortion:

It should he available to all woman with a valid reason.

So, WHO decides if her reason is valid? The fact she has to justify her choice to someone means it isn't her.

 

Family? Family can be abusive, my own grandmother used me as a pawn against my mother for years. "Do as I say or I'll sue for custody and I'll get it!"

 

Community? They're often hypocrites. It's actually pretty common for women who protest abortion clinics to get one themselves because "Those hussies had a bad reason, but my choice was the right and good one!"

 

The state? They're slow and can't handle the load on the social services that exist now.

 

Doctors? Well that's pretty much the situation we have now. A woman discusses her options and makes a choice based on her needs and the available options.

 

 

You're free to be mad at your stepmother for as many things as you want, but your anger at her over the fact that she considered her options is petty.

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WTF. So if a 14 year old gets pregnant you say she can't abort???

It get's worse then that.

 

Youngest birth mothers. (might be trigger inducing.)

 

The list starts at age of five.

 

 

So no, there's really no point in setting the age limit, especially since those beneath it are usually the ones that need abortion the most.

 

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