Abortion

[Cecona]

How the hell do they thing making miscarriages illegal is going to help? It's not like us women force ourselves to have a miscarriage. Maybe stress and a lot of outside factors could cause a woman to miscarry but it is in no way controllable. It's like the whole idea of "legitimate rape" the thought up saying that if it was real rape the female body had a way of, as they put it, "shutting the whole thing down".

 

WARNING: Explicit language within the articles.

 

Here are some links to make your blood boil over how stupid and insensitive politicians are:

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/celebrity/excl...ans-say#slide-1

http://www.policymic.com/articles/21173/th...omments-of-2012

Edited September 17, 2013 by Cecona

[Pokemonfan13]

What gets me is how many WOMEN are quoted there...

[Cecona]

I know, that's the saddest part because people are like "Well if a woman is saying it than it must be right/okay"

 

Like the first one. A rape kit doesn't "clean out a woman". What is does is it collects DNA samples from the rapist if they are there and information of the woman's condition and severity of the attack. only thing remotely close to what she said is that a morning after pill can be a part of the kit.

 

Aren't politicians supposed to fact check before they say stuff?

 

Number 6 of Stupid Things Politicians Say makes me so sick.

 

and number 18

Edited September 17, 2013 by Cecona

[Pokemonfan13]

Yea, and there are homosexual/trans/etc people who vote republican.

 

Ever heard of the saying "Jews for Hitler"? It kinda sums it up.

[brairtrainer]

After looking at those links I'm so frustrated. Doesn't help that I know my mom is very pro-life and my dad doesn't understand why I get frustrated when I hear things like this happening

[Cecona]

I've heard of Jews for Jesus but never Jews for Hitler.

 

I've also heard of log-cabin republicans.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Cecona

[crazyflower]

"As long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it."

—Former Texas Republican gubernatorial contender Clayton Williams on rape

 

ಠ_ಠ

 

Err... WTF. He seriously said that? He seriously said someone should accept that they are being raped? Did he even think about what he was saying? It is pathetic that he would try to trivialize someone and their rights like that.

[Brite]

After looking at those links I'm so frustrated. Doesn't help that I know my mom is very pro-life and my dad doesn't understand why I get frustrated when I hear things like this happening

Easiest way to pick out real pro-lifers from the force birthers: When they are against abortion but won't judge a woman for getting one and want the child to live a happy life. Forcebirthers: Don't care about what happened, they want that child born and don't care about what it goes through in the system.

 

Which one does she fall into? My father is kinda a real pro-lifer but his mind is stuck in the religious gutter on "soul at conception"

[Cecona]

Easiest way to pick out real pro-lifers from the force birthers: When they are against abortion but won't judge a woman for getting one and want the child to live a happy life. Forcebirthers: Don't care about what happened, they want that child born and don't care about what it goes through in the system.

 

Which one does she fall into? My father is kinda a real pro-lifer but his mind is stuck in the religious gutter on "soul at conception"

People from the bible days believed in life at birth. When people are like "The bible/god/jesus says life begins at conception" I feel the need to correct them because.... it doesn't.

[brairtrainer]

Easiest way to pick out real pro-lifers from the force birthers: When they are against abortion but won't judge a woman for getting one and want the child to live a happy life. Forcebirthers: Don't care about what happened, they want that child born and don't care about what it goes through in the system.

 

Which one does she fall into? My father is kinda a real pro-lifer but his mind is stuck in the religious gutter on "soul at conception"

Unfortunatly I think my mom falls on the line between those two camps .

 

She and I got to talking one day and she didn't seem to think that anything (short of the fetus already being dead) should be terms for abortion. To the point that she told me that I might have had an older sibling because she and my dad offered to adopt the child from one of her friend's cousins if they didn't abort. The girl did and my mom spent fifteen minutes talking about the loss of life, even though she did mention that the fetus was concived of rape.

 

On the other side she seems to understand about medical abortions, but understanding doesn't seem to equate to allowing them to happen (even when it might be her life at stake.)

[BlitzDrake]

ಠ_ಠ

 

Err... WTF. He seriously said that? He seriously said someone should accept that they are being raped? Did he even think about what he was saying? It is pathetic that he would try to trivialize someone and their rights like that.

._. ಠ_ಠ ....stupid people....I...really have no words for how insensitive that is.

[Gsea]

hey guys i found this on tumblr and

it's not exactly on the -current- topic

but i like it so i'm just gonna leave this here:

    Here’s a test:

 

    I’m holding a baby in one hand and a petri dish holding an embryo in the other.

    I’m going to drop one. You chose which.

    If you really truly believe an embryo is the same thing as a baby, it should be impossible for you to decide. You should have to flip a coin, that’s how impossible the decision should be.

    Shot in the dark, you saved the baby.

    Because you’re aware there’s a difference.

    Now admit it

[MasterWeavile898]

In answer to that test: Well, it depends on why I'm choosing.

 

If it's for scientific reasons I'm inclined to pick the embryo, higher chance of mutation and evolutionary progression.

 

Morally, I'd pick the baby. Anyone who wouldn't is probably insane, I just can't see someone picking something that looks scientific over something that looks human. (Who's going to pick a test tube full of soda over a bottle of the same soda? Seriously, who?)

 

Personally, whoever's holding it would fall asleep before I made my decision. (EDIT: Because I am the most indecisive person on Earth.)

Edited September 18, 2013 by MasterWeavile898

[Pokemonfan13]

That is awesome. But baby absolutely. The baby is life, a living human being. The embryo has the potential to be just like the baby, but it has a lot to go through before reaching that stage, including a decently high chance of miscarriage, especially since it would be in vitro fertilization, which a good chunk of them don't even implant.

[7Deadly$ins]

In answer to that test: Well, it depends on why I'm choosing.

 

If it's for scientific reasons I'm inclined to pick the embryo, higher chance of mutation and evolutionary progression.

 

Morally, I'd pick the baby. Anyone who wouldn't is probably insane, I just can't see someone picking something that looks scientific over something that looks human. (Who's going to pick a test tube full of soda over a bottle of the same soda? Seriously, who?)

 

Personally, whoever's holding it would fall asleep before I made my decision. (EDIT: Because I am the most indecisive person on Earth.)

I'm not really sure what kind of mutations you're expecting out of that embyro.

[Infinis]

Aren't politicians supposed to fact check before they say stuff?

 

Number 6 of Stupid Things Politicians Say makes me so sick.

 

and number 18

If they did, they wouldn't be putting their feet in their mouths so often. Regardless politicians in this country are extremely ill-educated on BASIC human biology that it's no wonder the rest of the world sometimes looks at us like we're idiots.

 

"Understand though, that when we talk about exceptions, we talk about rape, incest, health of a woman, life of a woman. Life of the woman is not an exception."

 

Do...do we not matter then, at all? I wonder if women just went on strike from sex and baby-making in general that would really change everything.

 

Abortions make up "well over 90 percent of what Planned Parenthood does."

 

LOOK, STATISTICS! A VIABLE SCIENCE/MATH! http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/PP_Services.pdf (Look at the rest of the numbers too and that 3% stat of abortions performed in 2010 is even more believable.)

 

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/31/sh...general-public/ Also this.

 

All of them made me rage but that one by Santorum just kinda made me go e.e Contraceptions are actually very safe for the most part. Contraception being a license to have sex whenever, so what? Why does it matter what other people do in their private time?

 

Also, Michele Bachmann. Lol. Isn't the HPV vaccine actually doing a lot of good? Does she want women to have that virus?

 

"As long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it."

 

All of my rage. All of it. I didn't think anything could be this insensitive. But wow. This guy is worse than Todd Akin. At least we got a good laugh out of him. :|

 

~

 

As an answer to that question, the baby.

[LegendOfKorraFan]

Please don't chew me out when I say this, alright?

 

Non-living this don't have cells, nor do they create/replicate cells. But, once sperm meets egg, doesn't the egg start creating new cells? Something only a living thing could do? If I am wrong, which I'm certain I'm not, please provide a link to the source of information that says otherwise.

Please don't think I'm being snooty or cheeky when I say this, I'm just trying to get the facts straight here.

 

Thanks.

[Completely Different]

^ Its true, one of the definitions of life is to reproduce. However, alive doesn't mean sentient. Nobody is doubting whether an embryo is alive; what's in question is if the embryo is conscious and deserves the same rights as a person.

 

After all, single celled organisms, plants and insects can all reproduce, and they're not sentient (at least, almost certainly not).

[LegendOfKorraFan]

Trees aren't self aware, yet they are alive.

 

People get all worked up when someone wants to cut down an old tree, but why? According to some people, it would matter, it's not self aware, so who cares? And yes, I realize I'm comparing a tree to an embryo, but it is an example. Anyone may say it is or isn't a good one, but it is an example.

[KageSora]

Please don't chew me out when I say this, alright?

 

Non-living this don't have cells, nor do they create/replicate cells. But, once sperm meets egg, doesn't the egg start creating new cells? Something only a living thing could do? If I am wrong, which I'm certain I'm not, please provide a link to the source of information that says otherwise.

Please don't think I'm being snooty or cheeky when I say this, I'm just trying to get the facts straight here.

 

Thanks.

A fetus is alive, but it is not a person.

 

Much like a plant. I can eat fruits or vegetables without people screaming at me that I'm a monster, and they're living things that grow and create new cells as they grow.

 

A parasite living in my body does the same thing. Why am I allowed to remove a tapeworm but not a fetus? They're both parasites I don't want in my body and that would be detrimental to my healthy--why does only removing the fetus make me a monster?

 

 

(ETA: Not saying you mean I'm a monster--just that's a view a lot of pro-forced-birth people have)

Edited September 18, 2013 by KageSora

[Completely Different]

Trees aren't self aware, yet they are alive.

 

People get all worked up when someone wants to cut down an old tree, but why? According to some people, it would matter, it's not self aware, so who cares? And yes, I realize I'm comparing a tree to an embryo, but it is an example. Anyone may say it is or isn't a good one, but it is an example.

The context is rather different, though. I really don't care about a single tree being cut down (after all, I have no problem with tree products, such as wooden furniture or paper, as long as they're in small quantities). However, what I do care about is the large scale destruction of trees, since it destroys valuable habitat for many species and contributes to climate change, since trees (or rather, forests) are carbon sinks. Embryos don't do either of those things.

 

The other difference is that trees aren't attached to another person. They're a totally independent living organism. An embryo, however, is living inside the woman, and can threaten both her physical and mental well-being and even her life.

[LegendOfKorraFan]

My personal belief on abortion:

I think that, unless the pregnancy were to seriously physically affect the mother, the baby should be had. You don't have to keep it, you don't have to love it, you can hate that thing as much as you want, but don't terminate it.

 

Now, back to the matter at hand.

I seriously hate it when people compare a fetus to a parasite such AS a Tape Worm. Would that in turn make children parasites? They rely on their parents (the host) for food, shelter, and warmth.

When CAN we tell when a fetus is self aware? Do we poke it until it realizes it hurts, then asks us politely to stop? How CAN we tell? Of course people can say "When it has a brain", yet, going back to the tree example, they don't have brains either but they're alive.

 

Also, we aren't talking about what it will become or do for society. We're talking about wither it's self conscious and/or alive. The answer, either technically or personally, is yes. The embryo IS alive, because it is creating/generating cells of it's own, which a non-living thing such as a rock can't do. Wither or not it is self conscious, probably not. But that doesn't mean it isn't alive.

[7Deadly$ins]

There is not a single person here who is arguing that a fetus is not alive.

[Completely Different]

I used to feel very much the same way as you. The fetus was alive, and even if we don't know its conscious, shouldn't we err on the side of caution?

 

I've discovered since then that its far more complicated than that. There are many women out there who feel that abortion is their only option. Maybe they'll be abused by their partner and/or family if they discover they're pregnant, maybe they suffer from extreme gender dysphoria that the pregnancy will agitate, maybe they're simply very poor and don't think they can support the baby.

 

Okay, I said. Those are some pretty bad problems, but I don't think they outweigh the potential life of the baby.

 

But here's the problem. Outlawing abortions doesn't stop them from happening. Many women will just seek other routes of doing the same thing. Many will attempt to miscarriage, others will explictly seek out back street abortions. These are very dangerous, and often kill the mother- meaning that not only is the embryo dead, but another life, too. Allowing women safe abortions prevents this.

 

Since then, I've also come to the opinion that embryo's can't be conscious until later in the pregnancy when the brain is fully developed, but that to me is of secondary importance to my previous point.

 

 

[LegendOfKorraFan]

There is not a single person here who is arguing that a fetus is not alive.

I was addressing the topic of abortion as a whole. I don't like to talk about witty bitty parts about it. And yes, I did realize that, but wasn't that the whole point of why people were against or pro abortion? Because pro-abortionists didn't think that life started at conception? So, just because the embryo doesn't LOOK human, that doesn't mean it isn't.

 

This is definitely not the subject to be talking about when trying to fall asleep. IT'S A TRAP!

((Sorry for the comic relief (or at least I consider it to be), I just feel that when people address such a serious topic, it's a nice way to calm down))