Abortion

[LascielsShadow]

Such lovely word choice there with "abortion mills" and all.

Are those like saw mills, I wonder? And can we start calling hospitals "appendectomy mills"? Or "organ transplant mills"? Those are legal medical procedures, too.

 

Clinics are not these evil entities churning out abortions all day, convincing women to get pregnant just so they can have them.

Edited March 29, 2013 by LascielsShadow

[philpot123]

Clinics are not these evil entities churning out abortions all day, convincing women to get pregnant just so they can have them.

 

I would consider a place that facilitates and participates in murder evil.

 

Oh, and have you seen Planned Parenthood's profit margin?

Edited March 30, 2013 by philpot123

[Thorn]

It's not like women have the option to be sterilised.

This is so true.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2013 by Thorn

[7Deadly$ins]

I would consider a place that facilitates and participates in murder evil.

 

Oh, and have you seen Planned Parenthood's profit margin?

If only Planned Parenthood branched out and did things besides just abortions. Not to mention that they are a non-profit organization. I'm not going to go into this with you without you providing me some unbiased sources.

 

...

Edited March 30, 2013 by 7Deadly$ins

[philpot123]

If only Planned Parenthood branched out and did things besides just abortions. Not to mention that they are a non-profit organization. I'm not going to go into this with you without you providing me some unbiased sources.

 

...

2011-2012

PPFA Income, $1.244 billion

Clinic Income, , $311.5 million

Taxpayer Money, $542.4 million

Private Donations, $307.5 million

Profit, $87.4 million (or as it's marked in the report, "excess of revenue over expenses [in millions]")

 

Planned Parenthood Annual Report

Edited March 30, 2013 by philpot123

[tenyasyugan]

If only Planned Parenthood branched out and did things besides just abortions. Not to mention that they are a non-profit organization. I'm not going to go into this with you without you providing me some unbiased sources.

 

...

OH WAIT.

 

Offers:

• Education on Prevention of Pregnancy and Sexually Transmitted Diseases
• Physical Examinations, or at the very least referals to clinics that can help you
• Preventative Care and access to Preventative Medicines
• Promotion of a Woman's right to Decide and Choose

Although their roots are in social Darwinism, I'd like to think that the clinics, in general, have improved and lessened their profiling somewhat.

 

Also, many hospitals offer not just abortions, but a variety of procedures! What a shocker. It used to be illegal to simply open a person up with a scalpel, as it was considered an invasion of their privacy and Devil's work. But, if it weren't for invasive surgery, my grandmother wouldn't be alive, nor would many of my relatives. And I doubt you would have had a very healthy mother if she didn't have medical practitioners who have helped develop more safe procedures for her to give birth and take care of her own body. It is also part of the same coin to help individuals take care of their body in all kinds of scenarios, up to and including the event that they need to terminate a pregnancy, and just outlawing it will not stop women from seeking abortion. All it will do is allow more of the botched and horrible cases of a too mature fetus being aborted in archaic ways that can severely harm the mother because nobody offered the mother the choice of a legal avenue to safely get an abortion.

[7Deadly$ins]

2011-2012 

PPFA Income, $1.244 billion

Clinic Income, , $311.5 million

Taxpayer Money, $542.4 million

Private Donations, $307.5 million

Profit, $87.4 million (or as it's marked in the report, "excess of revenue over expenses [in millions]")

 

Planned Parenthood Annual Report

Now see, I thought we were going to be talking about an actually noteworthy profit margin. 87 million is really not that much in the business world, especially when most of it comes from completely legitimate sources.

 

Tenyasyuagn, check the sarcasm detector.

Edited March 30, 2013 by 7Deadly$ins

[Vhale]

2011-2012

PPFA Income, $1.244 billion

Clinic Income, , $311.5 million

Taxpayer Money, $542.4 million

Private Donations, $307.5 million

Profit, $87.4 million (or as it's marked in the report, "excess of revenue over expenses [in millions]")

 

Planned Parenthood Annual Report

Slackers. The Kochs brought in 3 million per hour last year.

[tenyasyugan]

I actually put that post up for general reference of people in the thread, I was carrying on from your sarcasm, Sins. My apologies.

 

And, really, that isn't a great profit margin for a company that works across an entire country and has lots of centers to uphold and maintain, as well as defend from recent media attacks and oncoming lawsuits.

Edited March 30, 2013 by tenyasyugan

[philpot123]

Now see, I thought we were going to be talking about an actually noteworthy profit margin. 87 million is really not that much in the business world, especially when most of it comes from completely legitimate sources.

 

Tenyasyuagn, check the sarcasm detector.

They're also being sued in Washington for what, $377 million in medicaid fraud? Great stuff, that.

[7Deadly$ins]

I actually put that post up for general reference of people in the thread, I was carrying on from your sarcasm, Sins. My apologies.

 

And, really, that isn't a great profit margin for a company that works across an entire country and has lots of centers to uphold and maintain, as well as defend from recent media attacks and oncoming lawsuits.

My apologies, then. I actually thought it could go either way but just wanted to make sure.

 

Either way, philpot, calling Planned Parenthood an "abortion mill" is a vast oversimplification of their role.

[tenyasyugan]

Yeah, referring to it as that is a bit like me referring to PetCo as a puppy-mill. :/ It's very insulting and ignores the many other aspects of the business.

 

Anyway, in other news, following the various articles on the laws being passed on abortion is interesting, because they generally fall back onto the concept of when you start believing a fetus is a person and whether or not a lot of people believe that time period is correct. I really dislike how, all too often, the laws focus more on a person who doesn't or may not exist yet versus a person who is currently existing and would like to have control of themselves.

[Snowytoshi]

Yeah, referring to it as that is a bit like me referring to PetCo as a puppy-mill. :/ It's very insulting and ignores the many other aspects of the business.

 

Anyway, in other news, following the various articles on the laws being passed on abortion is interesting, because they generally fall back onto the concept of when you start believing a fetus is a person and whether or not a lot of people believe that time period is correct. I really dislike how, all too often, the laws focus more on a person who doesn't or may not exist yet versus a person who is currently existing and would like to have control of themselves.

But PetCo buys from mills, so that may not be the best analogy

 

@philpot can you link the newstory on Planned Prenthood being sued?

[Obscure_Trash]

@philpot can you link the newstory on Planned Prenthood being sued?

http://newstalk870.am/wa-lawsuit-claims-bi...ific-northwest/

 

Tbh, considering the source, I'm side-eying this and am quite suspicious that it's just another dig at PP trying to take their funding away.

 

I can provide you with links to several local aid centers for pregnant women and post-birth women that provide shelter and supplies to young mothers who chose birth instead of abortion.

 

I'm interested in links. I know like all the "support" centers out there for women who put up for adoption are basically extreme-Christain-rhetoric that don't actually work towards helping the women, so I'm curious about what centers you're talking about in this instance. :3

 

~

 

So, my PP has done an awesome pledge-a-picket thing in response to the 40 Days of Life protestors dedicating time to protesting the clinic. For everybody who donated to PP during this 40 Days protest, they got to put up a ribbon on the fence walking towards the building. It ended like this: https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3..._32287205_n.jpg All the ribbons. It's just a beautiful sight. I'm glad women and families who utilized the PP services were able to feel the support of others in some way as they had to make their way through protestors. <3

[Shienvien]

I would consider a place that facilitates and participates in murder evil.

That it is murder is only your personal opinion, nothing more.

 

My own opinion is that only a person can be murdered - and anything which doesn't even have a functional nervous system, like an early fetus, is not a person.

I also consider the mental damage that forcing women to carry to term against their will an unjustifiable crime. Something which is not even a person yet (by my definition) should never have the ultimate right to destroy a thinking individual's mind or body.

 

Also, did you know that almost every second woman to commit suicide is pregnant?

[Fuzzbucket]

http://newstalk870.am/wa-lawsuit-claims-bi...ific-northwest/

 

Tbh, considering the source, I'm side-eying this and am quite suspicious that it's just another dig at PP trying to take their funding away.

 

I'm interested in links. I know like all the "support" centers out there for women who put up for adoption are basically extreme-Christian-rhetoric that don't actually work towards helping the women, so I'm curious about what centers you're talking about in this instance. :3

Alliance for Defending Freedom (ADF) is a non-profit, faith-based group of attorneys defending Christian values by using the legal system.

 

Now, see - I cannot regard defending CHRISTIAN VALUES as defending FREEDOM- except for those who share that organisation's views. I am NOT Christian and I do not have what they call "Christian" values. So they are NOT defending MY freedom - or that of a VAST number of people.

 

And (because he was an ace Anglican minister) - I cite my father yet again - he was a deeply religious man and he also actively helped women find places who would perform abortions in the days when, in the UK, it was very difficult indeed. Because helping people in impossible situations is a very Christian thing to do.

 

And when you are dealing with a clump of cells - that is NOT a person. If it were - well, at least 20% of pregnancies end - naturally and all by themselves - in spontaneous miscarriage at up to 13 weeks - that is one hell of a lot of persons flushing down the toilet. AND - trust me - you can't tell what it was when that happens. Most doctors think a far higher proportion, as many women had no idea they were pregnant when this happens, and if it happens early enough, will not be able to tell anyway.

 

By the way - in terms of what is and is not a person, as far as I am concerned, it isn't a person if it is not able to survive outside the womb. So this may be useful to naysayers.

 

If the right to lifers want those clumps of cells so badly, let them come along to the clinic and take them away.

 

@ philpot123 - sure, there are a lot of places who provide

local aid centers for pregnant women and post-birth women that provide shelter and supplies to young mothers who chose birth instead of abortion. A truly pro-life position includes options to care for the mother and the child post-birth,

 

Post-birth - yes, there are places. BUT - later, when it comes to schooling and essential welfare and so on later on, these same people turn into "you had the kid, you should have kept your legs together, now you raise it" types.

Edited March 30, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[PointOfOrigin]

Despite the fact that there are some people like this, no, that's not a pro-life position. I can provide you with links to several local aid centers for pregnant women and post-birth women that provide shelter and supplies to young mothers who chose birth instead of abortion. A truly pro-life position includes options to care for the mother and the child post-birth, not scaring women away from abortion mills.

Okay, we can say that your regular folk isn't like that.

But, what about legislators? Cause lately, I can't see difference between any of them.

[ShinyTomato]

How can something be murder if there's no guarantee it will become a person yet?

 

Do oncologists murder tumors?

[Vhale]

Okay, we can say that your regular folk isn't like that.

But, what about legislators? Cause lately, I can't see difference between any of them.

Pretty much this. It's very disingenuous to protest about labels on pro-lifers when you've got a thing in your sig comparing abortion providers to nazis and pondering criminalizing miscarriages.

 

Given how many "christian" adoption centers ended up being places that abused, sold, prostituted babies, I think it's fair to call of of them pedophile baby seller rings.

 

And lest we forget, the Catholic church considers abortion, even to save the woman's life, so great a sin that they will excommunicate the woman and not the man that raped her. But, don't call it sexism because that's just mean. And, it's not murder when they force a woman to die for their beliefs. /points at HPV vaccine that conservatives refuse because it might make women... promiscuous. And Conservatives that work against free condoms in developing countries that have aids. Ahh, but that isn't murder either...

 

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/05/25...n-for-abortion/

 

No matter one’s stance on contraception and abortion, most people feel sympathetic for a 9-year-old rape victim who is impregnated with twins by her step father, and is forced to undergo an abortion to save her life.

 

The Catholic Church, however, excommunicated those who helped rescue her

[Starscream]

wow. I read that article and just wow. that poor 9 year old child, her poor mother and that jerk of a stepfather who gets off with a smacked wrist. What of her innocent life?

[Pixxelation]

That is possibly one of the most horrible things I have ever read. Honestly, I don't understand how people can be so inconsiderate of a 9-year-old child's--or rather, anyone's--life. Why can't they accept saving the person who obviously has a life they are living, and friends and family, is better than saving a small clump of cells? It's pretty obvious the baby wouldn't have lived, so they can't even hide behind the miserable excuse of abortion being "murder." I am awestruck that people saving a young child and rape victim's life could get them kicked out of their religion. Just... That's disgusting.

 

Just to clarify, I am pro-choice in every situation c:

[Fuzzbucket]

That is possibly one of the most horrible things I have ever read. Honestly, I don't understand how people can be so inconsiderate of a 9-year-old child's--or rather, anyone's--life. Why can't they accept saving the person who obviously has a life they are living, and friends and family, is better than saving a small clump of cells? It's pretty obvious the baby wouldn't have lived, so they can't even hide behind the miserable excuse of abortion being "murder." I am awestruck that people saving a young child and rape victim's life could get them kicked out of their religion. Just... That's disgusting.

 

Just to clarify, I am pro-choice in every situation c:

Would you want to remain a member of such a religion anyway ?

[vintageandroid]

. . . right, I need to go be sick for a while. That poor baby. And no, I am not talking about the fetuses.

 

Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed “a heinous crime”, the Church took the view that “the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious”.

 

Yeah, because knocking up your nine-year-old stepdaughter not the elimination of an innocent fricking life. Who cares about that, clearly. So he's a freaking child molester, at least he didn't have an abortion!!! /sarcasm

 

I need to go look at pictures of kittens for a while.

[Spelunker]

I just died inside at that.

 

But I'm glad the Church excommunicated them. They unknowingly saved the mother and child from further persecution by members of their own religion, and threw her out of an outdated, , , idiotic branch of faith.

 

(don't worry- there's nothing nasty under the censor kipz, just asterisks.)

 

 

. . . right, I need to go be sick for a while. That poor baby. And no, I am not talking about the censorkip.gif fetuses.

 

Jose Cardoso Sobrinho, the conservative regional archbishop for Pernambuco where the girl was rushed to hospital, has said that the man would not be thrown out of the Church, because although he had allegedly committed “a heinous crime”, the Church took the view that “the abortion, the elimination of an innocent life, was more serious”.

 

 

Yeah, because knocking up your nine-year-old stepdaughter not the elimination of an innocent fricking life. Who cares about that, clearly. So he's a freaking child molester, at least he didn't have an abortion!!! /sarcasm

 

I need to go look at pictures of kittens for a while.

I agree with all of Android's post.

 

Edited March 30, 2013 by Spelunker

[PointOfOrigin]

I honestly don't get why everybody's so worked up. I mean, we are talking about organization that routinely excuses their own molesting members and sends them to a secluded place, where they have an even easier time of molesting kids.

Edited March 30, 2013 by PointOfOrigin