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Unfortuneatly other than the one with the fetal pain won't work. Essentially I have to write a persuasive paper where I first have to produce a summery of a pro-life article and then refute it. Morals would be the only way I could do this, but I may just have to pit science against science.

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Pitting science against science seems the best route, as the best way to explain how you differ from a stance in a way most people can understand [from what I've seen, anyway] is to use factual evidence that comes from not just your extent of knowledge but the extent of humanity's knowledge in general. Science is a good way to do this, as it generally shouldn't be based on personal opinion or morality, although many statisticians go out of their way to influence results in their favor...

 

Perhaps you could use one of those Pro-life articles and point out the fallacies in what they're using as factual statements? For example, bring up the known age where a fetus develops nerves that could allow for a pain threshold, the actual stage of development that most abortions take place in, etc., because I find that many pro-life papers prefer to use the uncommon and atrocious exceptions as examples for the whole spectrum, which, while allowing for you to make a good counter-argument as to how it's not so, tends to get people's emotions riled up.

 

Meh, I'm rambling.

 

I wish you luck on your paper and I hope your class is very respectful of varying opinions.

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OOH. (Actually are you saying you can or can't use a morality one ?)

 

Here's a science then:

 

http://www.cfmpl.org/blog/2010/09/22/why-p...is-pro-science/

 

but have some morals:

 

http://members.efn.org/~bsharvy/abortion.html

 

and

http://www.all.org/upload/2011/04/07/Moral...alArguments.pdf

 

(that'll take some summarising... you could just take one part of it ...)

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fuzz I think you may have saved me some searching thank you biggrin.gif

 

my google skills were failing me, now once I've figured out how to argue I just need articles from the pro-choice side but I've been good at finding those wink.gif

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fuzz I think you may have saved me some searching thank you biggrin.gif

 

my google skills were failing me, now once I've figured out how to argue I just need articles from the pro-choice side but I've been good at finding those wink.gif

I LOVE GOOGLING xd.png

 

Any time biggrin.gif

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I LOVE GOOGLING xd.png

 

Any time biggrin.gif

I love googling too but today google wasn't loveing me.

 

Anyways I'm going to ask my prof about the second link, because I can pick one or several related arguments biggrin.gif. I have a feeling I'll easily blow through the 1000 word requirement.

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Hey all,

 

my sister is writing a paper about abortion. She's doing fine, but now needs to find 1 or 2 people who had an abortion and are willing to answer a few questions. As one can't exactly walk on the streets and ask people if they've had an abortion, I was wondering if there are people here who would be willing to answer her questions?

 

Obviously you wouldn't be required to answer all questions if they make you uneasy and you may write as much as you like - be it one sentence or your life story, it doesn't matter.

 

Obviously you would remain anonymous. The only information she needs is the age bracket in which you had your abortion.

 

If anyone would like to help her out, please PM me and I'll send you the questions. She'd be eternally grateful, because so far she hasn't found anyone willing to help her out.

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Trope does she have to get this information through interviews? if not she can find a lot of stories that may give her the same info here.

 

Hope she does well on her paper.

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I don't know how many people  read 'Dear Abby', but one of todays letters is about this topic.  Thought it may be interesting to read for you folks.

 

Daughter's decision to end pregnancy torments mom

I really don't know how people who think abortion is okay if it's from rape or incest can call themselves pro-life.

 

Personally if I ever got pregnant the only person who would know about my abortion would be my husband. And the people in this thread. I wouldn't tell my parents, I don't know what their stance is on abortion but it doesn't matter to me. And I don't think parents would be very supportive about an abortion because they always seem hungry for grandchildren.

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I really don't know how people who think abortion is okay if it's from rape or incest can call themselves pro-life.

I agree. Consistency is key. If it's wrong to kill a child in the womb, it doesn't matter how it was conceived. Compromises can't figure into a pro-life worldview. Which means people who are against abortion should be CONSISTENTLY against abortion, and they should also be against warmongering, war in general, and especially the killing of civilians in wartime. Unfortunately, most "pro-life" people aren't that consistent.

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I agree. Consistency is key. If it's wrong to kill a child in the womb, it doesn't matter how it was conceived. Compromises can't figure into a pro-life worldview. Which means people who are against abortion should be CONSISTENTLY against abortion, and they should also be against warmongering, war in general, and especially the killing of civilians in wartime. Unfortunately, most "pro-life" people aren't that consistent.

I completely agree. What's funny is that I've seen people claim to be a pro-choice and have the same views as the person in the article who said they were pro-life.

 

Many pro-choice people aren't that consistent either, and I think it should be consistent here too. I see way to many pro-choicers saying "I believe women should be able to choose to have an abortion unless they are using it as birth control". It makes no sense. You aren't pro-choice if you are only allowing a mother to make the choice during certain scenarios and not all of them.

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I completely agree. What's funny is that I've seen people claim to be a pro-choice and have the same views as the person in the article who said they were pro-life.

 

Many pro-choice people aren't that consistent either, and I think it should be consistent here too. I see way to many pro-choicers saying "I believe women should be able to choose to have an abortion unless they are using it as birth control". It makes no sense. You aren't pro-choice if you are only allowing a mother to make the choice during certain scenarios and not all of them.

I agree, it doesn't make sense to discriminate the DO and DON'T criteria in this case.

 

In my opinion, a woman goes into clinic with a fetus and comes out without it, the outcome is the same regardless of the reasoning.

While I have a personal squick feeling about irresponsible sex, abortion as birth control should still be an option.

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Many pro-choice people aren't that consistent either, and I think it should be consistent here too. I see way to many pro-choicers saying "I believe women should be able to choose to have an abortion unless they are using it as birth control". It makes no sense. You aren't pro-choice if you are only allowing a mother to make the choice during certain scenarios and not all of them.

Agreed. I don't like people using abortion as their primary form of birth control. I think they shouldn't do it. But it's their body and life, not mine and I think they really need to have the choice to do it that way. After all--that's their choice and that's what pro-CHOICE is all about.

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Many pro-choice people aren't that consistent either, and I think it should be consistent here too. I see way to many pro-choicers saying "I believe women should be able to choose to have an abortion unless they are using it as birth control". It makes no sense. You aren't pro-choice if you are only allowing a mother to make the choice during certain scenarios and not all of them.

1) Early term abortions freely available under any circumstances.

2) Late term only if the mother and/or fetus is at risk (or, in case of the fetus, developing incorrectly and would not become a functional person).

3) No abortions after the point where the child is capable of surviving outside of the womb.

 

...In the way of making a rough distinction, and what I've been essentially advocating. Good? In this case, I am not making a distinction by circumstances - outside of the health-aspect -, but by physical stage of development, how close the fetus physically is to becoming a person.

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I'm one of those people that make no sense in thinking that yeah, women should have a choice, but don't like abortion as a form of birth control. I don't care if that doesn't make sense to anyone else. I don't have to have some do or die, one way or the other, mentality, just because that seems to be what people want to hear.

 

I don't give a flip what women do. If they want to go through an abortion proceedure at an abortion clinic 30 times a year, and dish out the dollars to have it done, so be it. Have at it. But I certainly don't have to think someone is using all their brain cells after the fact. It just seems a pretty stupid road to take, and I don't happen to think it's a grand idea. Use freaking birth control. Obviously, when people have sex, there's the potential to create another human. Why even bother taking a chance if that's not a life you want to exist? Why not prevent it to begin with? I don't give a damn if women want to have 1000 abortions. Let them. But the way I look at it, people have a certain RESPONSIBILITY when it comes to potential life, and the second a woman gets pregnant, there's a potential human, and for some odd reason, that knowledge prevents me from seeing the ending of that life, for no other reason than convenience, as a good thing. I see it as a slackers way out, a way of avoiding responsibility for a potential life created because sex was damn good that night. If someone didn't work to prevent that potential life from happening, when they could have and should have, then as far as I'm concerned, they need to live with it or keep thier legs shut. Tell me you abort for convenience and I think you're an irresponsible idiot. And how people 'should' think about all this be damned.

 

To me, abortion in the case of rape, incest, all of that, has to do with the mental and emotional well being of the mother, and if it's in her best interest, for the sake of her health, be it physical or mental, to abort, so be it.

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I'm one of those people that make no sense in thinking that yeah, women should have a choice, but don't like abortion as a form of birth control.  I don't care if that doesn't make sense to anyone else.  I don't have to have some do or die, one way or the other, mentality, just because that seems to be what people want to hear. 

 

I don't give a flip what women do.  If they want to go through an abortion proceedure at an abortion clinic 30 times a year, and dish out the dollars to have it done, so be it.  Have at it.  But I certainly don't have to think someone is using all their brain cells after the fact.  It just seems a pretty stupid road to take, and I don't happen to think it's a grand idea.  Use freaking birth control.  Obviously, when people have sex, there's the potential to create another human.  Why even bother taking a chance if that's not a life you want to exist?  Why not prevent it to begin with?  I don't give a damn if women want to have 1000 abortions.  Let them.  But the way I look at it, people have a certain RESPONSIBILITY when it comes to potential life, and the second a woman gets pregnant, there's a potential human, and for some odd reason, that knowledge prevents me from seeing the ending of that life, for no other reason than convenience, as a good thing.  I see it as a slackers way out, a way of avoiding responsibility for a potential life created because sex was damn good that night.  If someone didn't work to prevent that potential life from happening, when they could have and should have, then as far as I'm concerned, they need to live with it or keep thier legs shut.  Tell me you abort for convenience and I think you're an irresponsible idiot.  And how people 'should' think about all this be damned. 

 

To me, abortion in the case of rape, incest, all of that, has to do with the mental and emotional well being of the mother, and if it's in her best interest, for the sake of her health, be it physical or mental, to abort, so be it.

I'm not arguing it isn't stupid, I don't think anyone believes it isn't stupid(I also don't believe very many women, if any, actually use it instead of birth control given how expensive and invasive it would be). I just think if you support a mother's right to choose what to do with her body then say she legally has no right to have an abortion just because she uses it as a form of birth control it makes no sense. If she doesn't want it, that should be reason enough. I really don't believe bringing people into the world to punish their mothers is right.

 

I also believe a women should be able to end a pregnancy no matter what term it is. As long as that baby is still in the mother, she should be able to choose when she wants the pregnancy to end. But in stages where a fetus could survive outside the womb, they should attempt to save it instead of killing it since it does have a chance of being an independent human.

 

Ideally they'd always attempt to save it, perhaps pro-lifers should spend more time devoted to science and creating synthetic wombs to carry fetuses to birth than trying to outlaw abortion.

Edited by Syaoransbear

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If someone didn't work to prevent that potential life from happening, when they could have and should have, then as far as I'm concerned, they need to live with it or keep thier legs shut.

So, pregnancy and a child are a fit punishment for (in your opinion) sexual immorality?

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So, pregnancy and a child are a fit punishment for (in your opinion) sexual immorality?

Not to mention the child is to be punished for what you see as its mother's immorality ? And what about the father ? Surely he should be punished too ? It is as much his "fault" as the mother's.

 

A child knows when it was unplanned and it does NOT make it happy. And as has been said over and over - even if adoption does actually happen (and most times, contrary to popular belief, it doesn't) it is FAR from always a satisfactory thing for the child. As for foster homes - don't get me started.

 

And contraception can fail. Even when properly used. I even know someone who got pregnant ON THE PILL. not taking antibiotics or anything. When I worked for a doctor, three of our patients became pregnant while using an IUD.

 

All that aside, sex is not a sin. Bringing an unwanted child into the already overpopulated world is much closer to a sin.

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So, pregnancy and a child are a fit punishment for (in your opinion) sexual immorality?

 

What I'm saying is that maybe, just maybe, people need to stand up and take responsibility for the choices they make, and stop using convenient labels as excuses to avoid that responsibility. If someone can't be bothered to use protection, does nothing at all to prevent pregnancy, then aborts to avoid being 'punished' with consequences for their own actions, I don't respect that mentality or that woman.

 

But whatever. I think women should be able to do with their bodies as they please, all the time, under any circumstances, yes indeed I do. Doesn't mean I have to like or respect every decision women want to make in the name of...avoiding 'punishment'.

 

Anyway, I'm coming off the flu, I can't breath or sleep and I'm cranky. Sorry if I sounded snappy. I'm too tired to argu this further. Women will do as they please.

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In the interests of the mother and the child, I don't think someone as irresponsible enough to use abortion in lieu of birth control has any business being a mother or being pregnant especially if she doesn't want to be pregnant. You don't just continue on normally with your life when you are pregnant, you have to change your diet and abstain from a lot of things. If someone can't manage to use a condom or take a little pill every day, I can't see them bothering to abstain from things like alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc.

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Making someone remain pregnant because of their lack of contraceptive use won't suddenly make them responsible. :c If anything, it'd be more detrimental to the fetus's health if the pregnancy is forced to continue (such as the case with outlawing abortion).

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Making someone remain pregnant because of their lack of contraceptive use won't suddenly make them responsible. :c If anything, it'd be more detrimental to the fetus's health if the pregnancy is forced to continue (such as the case with outlawing abortion).

^ That.

 

 

Speaking of outlawing abortion, has anyone else seen this yet? North Dakota's lawmakers have passed a "personhood" measure, which will be going to a ballot vote in the next election. :/ It's so extreme that even some "pro-life" lawmakers are against it.

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^ That.

 

 

Speaking of outlawing abortion, has anyone else seen this yet? North Dakota's lawmakers have passed a "personhood" measure, which will be going to a ballot vote in the next election. :/ It's so extreme that even some "pro-life" lawmakers are against it.

Yeah, I posted links about it a few pages back. To think I wanted to move back there because of the better job market there....

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Yeah. Very much not a place you want to be a woman. Of course, it's getting so that those places are pretty much impossible to avoid. Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, North Dakota...the list goes on (and on and on). I wonder if ND and other places that have tried to pass personhood bills/amendments have thought of the possible repercussions, or if they even care.

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They care after the fact. It's been noted that Texas's choice to close down women's health centers is going to triple is medicare responsiblities. Now they don't like that idea, but they've already caused the centers to close. And even the new tripled amount is only half what the current governor has stashed away as his special business/donator buddy slush fund for pet projects.

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