Posted March 14, 2013 I find this topic so difficult. The idea of not having the option of abortion makes my stomach clench with panic, right now I'm convinced I would do it if I became pregnant. Then again, I have no idea if I would really do it, if I could do it. I asked my mother once why she had me - I was received after the relationship to my father had already ended officially and she was still in college. Not the best circumstanes, but she said the idea of abortion crossed her mind for all but five seconds, then she dismissed it and never regretted her decision. I know women who have done it and have regretted it terribly, feeling like a murderer for years. I also know two women who have never been more relieved because they really did not want (another) child. I don't think there is right or wrong here and I don't think every woman makes the right decision, but I'm very convinced the option should be there. And I'm glad I'm a woman, I wouldn't know what to do in the position of the father. He has no say and I don't think he should have a say, but it has to be a horrible situation. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 He has no say and I don't think he should have a say, but it has to be a horrible situation. I think he should be able to give his opinion on the matter at least. It IS 50% his DNA after all. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 I think he should be able to give his opinion on the matter at least. It IS 50% his DNA after all. Although I believe a woman should be able to do what she wants with her body, and nobody should be able to tell her what to do with it, I agree 100% with this (unless the father isn't in the picture). The woman should have the final say, though. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 Although I believe a woman should be able to do what she wants with her body, and nobody should be able to tell her what to do with it, I agree 100% with this (unless the father isn't in the picture). The woman should have the final say, though. Oh yes. I agree it is ultimately her decision. But saying the father has no say whatsoever just strikes me as wrong :/ Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 I think he should be able to give his opinion on the matter at least. It IS 50% his DNA after all. But he doesn't have to carry it. He doesn't have to deal with the intense physical and mental changes that come with pregnancy, the severe health risks, and the pain of giving birth. His body and mind won't be forever altered due to incubating a thing for 40 weeks. And I would argue ANY woman who chooses to have an abortion is doing so to prevent physical or mental distress, so those saying it's only okay if there's a health problem . . . well, there you go. She is mentally unprepared and unwilling to go through a pregnancy, which means that to do so WOULD cause mental distress. So . . . it's the same argument. Also it took me a stupidly long to type this due to lifey things so I'm sure the entire conversation is far, far away from this, but oh well. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 But he doesn't have to carry it. He doesn't have to deal with the intense physical and mental changes that come with pregnancy, the severe health risks, and the pain of giving birth. His body and mind won't be forever altered due to incubating a thing for 40 weeks. No, he doesn't. But it takes two to make a baby. At least give him the chance to voice his opinion on the matter. I did say the post before this it is ultimately the woman's decision but the father deserves at least a bit of say. Assuming he's staying in the picture. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 No, he doesn't. But it takes two to make a baby. At least give him the chance to voice his opinion on the matter. I did say the post before this it is ultimately the woman's decision but the father deserves at least a bit of say. Assuming he's staying in the picture. What about if the woman in question has reason to keep him out of the picture? The first time I became pregnant, I found out about the pregnancy right after getting away from an abusive situation. Letting him know about the pregnancy was out of the question as far as I was concerned... I didn't need any reason for him to double his efforts to find me and force me to return to him. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 What about if the woman in question has reason to keep him out of the picture? The first time I became pregnant, I found out about the pregnancy right after getting away from an abusive situation. Letting him know about the pregnancy was out of the question as far as I was concerned... I didn't need any reason for him to double his efforts to find me and force me to return to him. I agree. Also*hug* Share this post Link to post
Posted March 14, 2013 Due cause is different than the situation of a healthy relationship. I would say that if you (general you) are in a healthy relationship with the father then the father should at least be given a chance to voice his feelings and opinion. But given due cause like an abusive relationship I don't think it's necessary to involve the abuser in such a decision. Family Research Council senior fellow Pat Fagan appeared alongside Tony Perkins, the head of FRC, on Washington Watch yesterday to discuss his article which claims that Eisenstadt v. Baird, the 1972 case that overturned a Massachusetts law banning the distribution of contraceptives to unmarried people, may rank “as the single most destructive decision in the history of the Court.” Fagan argued that the Supreme Court decision was wrong because it effectively meant that “single people have the right to engage in sexual intercourse.” “Society never gave young people that right, functioning societies don’t do that, they stop it, they punish it, they corral people, they shame people, they do whatever,” Fagan said. Someone should tell this idiot that society doesn't have to give us this right because it isn't a right. It's nature (barring asexuality). >w> And normal society does not punish or shame it. This is a very backwards and archaic viewpoint. I also don't understand why sex is such a taboo subject. Abortion rates would be lower if people were properly educated (read: pull it out of the Closet of Taboo Things and talk about it :U) and contraception was widely available...argh. Why do some people not understand this. >__< Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) What about if the woman in question has reason to keep him out of the picture? The first time I became pregnant, I found out about the pregnancy right after getting away from an abusive situation. Letting him know about the pregnancy was out of the question as far as I was concerned... I didn't need any reason for him to double his efforts to find me and force me to return to him. Oh no no. If there is a reason to keep him out of the situation such as that, for the safety of you and your unborn child you should keep him out. I'm not sure what other reasons there are. If someone could come up with some other reasons to keep the father out I'd love to here them ^^ Due cause is different than the situation of a healthy relationship. I would say that if you (general you) are in a healthy relationship with the father then the father should at least be given a chance to voice his feelings and opinion. This is what I was referring to before. I wasn't thinking about relationships that are abusive and such. Edited March 15, 2013 by VeeVeeLa Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) My husband's opinion would only ever matter to me if he didn't want a child. I wouldn't bring a third person into our relationship if he wasn't completely on board with the idea. However, if he wanted a child while I didn't want one, his opinion wouldn't matter to me at all because there would be no way I'd have a baby I didn't want just to appease him. I guess in my relationship if either party didn't want a child, it would result in an abortion. Luckily right before we got married my inlaws forgot to renew their lease and were forced to move in with us so we spent the first six months of our marriage living with the loudest and most misbehaved children/toddlers I've ever encountered who caused their parents to fight and yell at each other over them all day, so we've been mentally scarred by the experience and we're both horrified at the thought of having children. Edited March 15, 2013 by Syaoransbear Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 you editted out the part of my post saying i see it as okay if it causes mental harm :/ please dont attack me for the sake of it. I wasn't attacking you, I missed that part of your post. Sorry! Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 OK. I have decided to buy you. Kindly package yourself up and get over here. Because I have the right to decide to do that... And YOU have no say in it. MY decision. You're hypothetically my offspring. I've decided to kill you. You have no say in the decision. It's my choice. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 Ah, but see- philpot- you are a sentient being, and have every right to life. A clump of cells? Not so much. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 You're hypothetically my offspring. I've decided to kill you. You have no say in the decision. It's my choice. "The process of fertilization in humans, is remarkably inefficient. Spontaneous abortion is estimated to be between 15 and 20% of all clinical pregnancies, and the early spontaneous abortion rate is closer to 30-50% of fertilized ova." Why did my scan show one baby, when an earlier scan showed two? Chimeras Two zygotes fuse into one biological entity Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 You're hypothetically my offspring. I've decided to kill you. You have no say in the decision. It's my choice. Yes. I am an unaware, unfeeling, unthinking zygote/embryo/fetus without personhood that you've decided to abort. It's your choice. Since I don't exist in any kind of sentient capacity I lack awareness and ability to care, think, know. So yes. That is your choice and yeah, I have no say. I can't have a say. I am not capable of having a say. What problem would I have with this? None. I can't have a problem with it. I'm not aware. I'm simply a growing clump of cells. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 You're hypothetically my offspring. I've decided to kill you. You have no say in the decision. It's my choice. And you'd have every right to as long as I was dependent on your body as my source of life. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 And you'd have every right to as long as I was dependent on your body as my source of life. http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/n...ad.main/967280/ I know what the next argument will be. Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/n...ad.main/967280/ I know what the next argument will be. Yup. Give them each something pointy and have them fight to the death . Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) You're hypothetically my offspring. I've decided to kill you. You have no say in the decision. It's my choice. Yeah, go right ahead. I don't even know I exist yet! I'm not even me yet! I'd rather get aborted if it were best for my parents, because you know, they actually have a life. Not to mention, if it's for some reason such as financial or circumstantial (i.e. they would want a baby but it wouldn't be best at the moment because of circumstances), I'd rather give my future 'sibling' a better chance at living rather than being greedy and taking what I could get right there and then, possibly being raised in a difficult environment, and ruining my parent's life. Alternatively, I'd prefer if that future sibling had a nice( r ) living environment WITH the parents instead of being dropped into the adoption system as soon as they are born. I find wanting to be born in the above situation to be selfish, not only for your parents but for that future hypothetical sibling (implying that again, they want a baby but right now just isn't the right time). http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/n...ad.main/967280/ I know what the next argument will be. Hahahaha Edited March 15, 2013 by High Lord November Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 Looks like North Dakatoa is fixing to pass a couple of anti-abortion laws that are being considered the most restictive ever seen. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/15...test=latestnews One will prevent abortion if the reason is due to a genetic defect. The other makes it illegal to abort of a heartbeat has been detected (5-6 weeks). The last one makes me shudder...as many women don't even know they are pregnant at that stage! I used to live there...and I wanted to go back there some day because the economy/people/etc were a lot better than where I am now. If that thing passes...I think I'll cross ND off my list of places I'd like to live in.... Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) I also don't understand why sex is such a taboo subject. Abortion rates would be lower if people were properly educated (read: pull it out of the Closet of Taboo Things and talk about it :U) and contraception was widely available...argh. Why do some people not understand this. >__< I personally got lucky that I was such a shy pre-teen and teenager. I was never even educated by my parents and didn't get even a basic sex ed course until I was 14 and in highschool because I didn't have a "gym" course in middle school due to health issues. It really bothers me that they just expected my brother and I to just magically know what to do and not do and never even talked to us about it. Pretty much the most we ever heard was when my father told my brother to ask for condoms if he needed them when he went into highschool... Apologies for going slightly off-topic, but I'll refrain from going any further. I just found it relevant to that bit of the conversation and it is at least somewhat related. Back on topic... The main problem I have with abortion is that some women seem to use it as an excuse to be promiscuous. They know they can get rid of a baby if they get pregnant, and that is not the way to look at abortion. It should only be used in times of great necessity or with very good reason. Personally I think any woman who has an abortion just because she doesn't want the child when it was her own damn fault she got pregnant in the first place needs to be sterilized, but perhaps that's just me being overly harsh. Abstinence is the only surefire way to avoid pregnancy, so it should be practiced when no child is desired. Edited March 15, 2013 by keijaidyyn Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 Annnd Rand Paul is now essentually going to try to make abortion 100% illegal at the federal level... http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/15...conception-act/ Bet ya it won't include full, accurate sex education and easy/wide spread availability of BC in that.... Share this post Link to post
Posted March 15, 2013 Annnd Rand Paul is now essentually going to try to make abortion 100% illegal at the federal level... http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/15...conception-act/ Bet ya it won't include full, accurate sex education and easy/wide spread availability of BC in that.... The comments there... It's stuff that insanity is made off. I hope it doesn't pass. Share this post Link to post
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