Abortion

[Fuzzbucket]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...omans-body.html

 

This might be the article Pie was trying to post :3

 

And reading through it I've become very confused on what this woman's stance actually is, since I understand from the article she's anti-choice and yet she's saying a fetus is an organ...big "wat" moment here....

You don't have to believe anything from the Daily Mail. It is almost as rubbish as the National Enquirer - just slightly closer to the truth. But not much. Mostly it is into Fox-News style right wing stuff.

 

But babies are NOT adopted incredibly quickly. Sadly a huge number end up in children's homes.

 

In the UK, for instance, I just pulled this - it was worse than I thought:

 

Adoptions are at a record low - with only 60 babies adopted in 2010/11

 

Source

Edited February 19, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[VeeVeeLa]

I guess I'm pro-choice...? I mean, I don't really care what women do with their body and I don't believe I have a right to tell them what to do with it :/

 

Whether I think a fetus/zygote/whatever is in between is an organ...I'm not really sure about that since that idea is completely new to me o.o If it was I agree that this debate should be over and there's nothing to talk about anymore

[Pixxelation]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...omans-body.html

 

This might be the article Pie was trying to post :3

 

And reading through it I've become very confused on what this woman's stance actually is, since I understand from the article she's anti-choice and yet she's saying a fetus is an organ...big "wat" moment here....

Ah, yes. I was in too many tabs and copied the wrong URL

 

Fuzz: It's on HuffingtonPost, too. That's the link I just edited in.

Edited February 20, 2013 by PieMaster

[Obscure_Trash]

...and it is idiots like that who ruin the pro-life's case.

 

I am pro-life. I can assure you, my views are not that of the imbeciles who seem to be the only pro-lifers the newspapers will publish. The majority of society seems to be pro-choice, so it seems the newspapers never actually publish valid opinions from moderate pro-lifers, only the extremist ones, while visa versa for pro-choicers.

 

To make it clear: I am fine with contraception. I am fine with aborting if it would harm the women during the pregnancy or the birth. If they can't take care of the child, I believe it should be given up to adoption (babies get adopted incredibly quickly, remember that.) I do not believe that a fetus is an organ.

 

But please, don't hold an entire ideal responsible for what a few extremists think.

Do you include the pregnancy itself harming a woman's mental health under your support of allowable abortion? What about financial harm?

[Syaoransbear]

What are the views of an extremist pro-choice person? I'm not sure I even know what one is.

[LascielsShadow]

Oh, you know, they're like "Abort ALL THE BABIES! NO BABIES FOR ANYONE! Round up all the pregnant women and force them to abort!"

 

...At least that's what they'd pretty much have to be saying for "Extreme pro-choice" to even be A Thing to the degree that it is on the anti-choice side.

[Spelunker]

I'm pro-choice. I like choosing. And it goes with what little of my personal philosophy I have figured out as of now.

 

I want to adopt. That may change, or it may not, but my dream is to help people, however I can, and I think I could help more by comforting and loving someone who needs it, than bringing a new one in to the world.

 

Anyway, I have years to think about this- as of now, becoming pregnant would be a physical impossibility.

 

I agree with everything Sock has said.

 

[Laryal]

You know the Lord knows each and every person before they are concieved So if the Lord sees these little ones as humans what does that tell you? You can not say that those babyies do not feel the pian as they die no matter how small they are.I have seen a vidio of a baby reaching out as a doctor worked on his tiny heart and there is a case where they took out a baby not even a few weeks old inside the sace and the baby was jumping around full of life once they cut open the sac the baby looked like a dead glob.My mom worked in life warriors where she helped ladys and girls who where thinking about this topic.She told them what the baby looked like at the stage they were in . of them changed their minds.She had some call after they aborted feeling sad and ashamed for what they done.She helped them by telling them to give the baby a name.They were so grateful and she even helped by giving them clothes and every thing they needed.The man who started this was a guy who was almost aborted himself but his mother changed her mind he has helped of mothers out in this just like my mom.My mom still getts calls and she talks to the girls and even tells them where they can get fre stuff.See Life warriors is gone now for the guy knew it was time for him to move on. So what do i think about this each and every woman and girl who with child murders their own childeren. It is sad once you talk to one who has done this they do feel loss and very guilty.One question for all you are you happy your mom did not abort you? I know some of what i said may hurt or upset some of you but this is the truth.If it comes to a women with a life threatening pregancay the doctors now adays can save both their live and with the Lord's help they can survive if he wishes.Also if you are wondering where the guy is who started Life warriors he is a preacher now.Just take a look at abortion vidoies and see what you think afterwards.Those ppor inocent babies getting ripped apart even before they are born and even poisioned to death. inside the womb can you not feel they pian already if not then i feel sorry for you.It is making me cry right now just thinking about this.I have seen the papletes my mom had of these abortions as well and would and does bring tears to your eyies.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Laryal

[7Deadly$ins]

You know the Lord knows each and every person before they are concieved So if the Lord sees these little ones as humans what does that tell you? You can not say that those babyies do not feel the pian as they die no matter how small they are.I have seen a vidio of a baby reaching out as a doctor worked on his tiny heart and there is a case where they took out a baby not even a few weeks old inside the sace and the baby was jumping around full of life once they cut open the sac the baby looked like a dead glob.My mom worked in life warriors where she helped ladys and girls who where thinking about this topic.She told them what the baby looked like at the stage they were in . of them changed their minds.She had some call after they aborted feeling sad and ashamed for what they done.She helped them by telling them to give the baby a name.They were so grateful and she even helped by giving them clothes and every thing they needed.The man who started this was a guy who was almost aborted himself but his mother changed her mind he has helped of mothers out in this just like my mom.My mom still getts calls and she talks to the girls and even tells them where they can get fre stuff.See Life warriors is gone now for the guy knew it was time for him to move on. So what do i think about this each and every woman and girl who with child murders their own childeren. It is sad once you talk to one who has done this they do feel loss and very guilty.One question for all you are you happy your mom did not abort you? I know some of what i said may hurt or upset some of you but this is the truth.If it comes to a women with a life threatening pregancay the doctors now adays can save both their live and with the Lord's help they can survive if he wishes.Also if you are wondering where the guy is who started Life warriors he is a preacher now.Just take a look at abortion vidoies and see what you think afterwards.Those ppor inocent babies getting ripped apart even before they are born and even poisioned to death. inside the womb can you not feel they pian already if not then i feel sorry for you.It is making me cry right now just thinking about this.I have seen the papletes my mom had of these abortions as well and would and does bring tears to your eyies.

I don't even know where to begin, because it sounds to me like you're seen every biased piece of propaganda there is.

 

First off, not everyone believes in your God. Second off, if God has a plan for everyone, then wouldn't he know from way beforehand that that person was never going to be a "person"? God is in control of everything, and everything is part of his plan, supposedly, so then it must have been in the plans for that person to have an abortion.

 

Secondly, fetuses are not babies. At the time you can get an abortion, a fetus doesn't even remotely resemble an infant. And yes, we CAN tell that they don't feel pain. Their bodies aren't developed enough yet. They don't have pain receptors. I'm not sure you actually know what a baby looks like at this stage, even though your mom has apparently been trying to shame women using this info.

 

It's true that some women feel a sense of loss afterwards. It's equally true that many women do not. I'm Not Sorry is full of stories of women who are just that.

 

If my mother had aborted me I'd have never known the difference and I'd have never felt any sense of loss.

 

There are NOT always circumstances where both mother and fetus can be saved. Look at ectopic pregnancies, for one. Your comment about "the Lord" strikes very similar chords as all the cases were children have died because instead of seeking medical care, their parents chose to hold a prayer group. Many of these parents are later charged with manslaughter, or other related charges.

 

I also don't think you know very much about how abortion is actually preformed, because it isn't the way you think it is, especially with those comments about being ripped apart and poisoned.

 

Ultimately, I'd urge you to actually look at some NON-BIASED medical information. Don't look at information from your church's pro-life pamphlets and websites. Similarly, if you feel like, don't look at pro-choice information either. Look at pure, unbiased medical info. You've been fed a lot of propaganda all your life, it sounds like. You at least owe it to yourself to look at the other side, with an open mind.

[Laryal]

I don't even know where to begin, because it sounds to me like you're seen every biased piece of propaganda there is.

 

First off, not everyone believes in your God. Second off, if God has a plan for everyone, then wouldn't he know from way beforehand that that person was never going to be a "person"? God is in control of everything, and everything is part of his plan, supposedly, so then it must have been in the plans for that person to have an abortion.

 

Secondly, fetuses are not babies. At the time you can get an abortion, a fetus doesn't even remotely resemble an infant. And yes, we CAN tell that they don't feel pain. Their bodies aren't developed enough yet. They don't have pain receptors. I'm not sure you actually know what a baby looks like at this stage, even though your mom has apparently been trying to shame women using this info.

 

It's true that some women feel a sense of loss afterwards. It's equally true that many women do not. I'm Not Sorry is full of stories of women who are just that.

 

If my mother had aborted me I'd have never known the difference and I'd have never felt any sense of loss.

 

There are NOT always circumstances where both mother and fetus can be saved. Look at ectopic pregnancies, for one. Your comment about "the Lord" strikes very similar chords as all the cases were children have died because instead of seeking medical care, their parents chose to hold a prayer group. Many of these parents are later charged with manslaughter, or other related charges.

 

I also don't think you know very much about how abortion is actually preformed, because it isn't the way you think it is, especially with those comments about being ripped apart and poisoned.

 

Ultimately, I'd urge you to actually look at some NON-BIASED medical information. Don't look at information from your church's pro-life pamphlets and websites. Similarly, if you feel like, don't look at pro-choice information either. Look at pure, unbiased medical info. You've been fed a lot of propaganda all your life, it sounds like. You at least owe it to yourself to look at the other side, with an open mind.

These are medical stuff i am talking about and i do know that evetryuone does not believe in him now but they will even you.Yes his plans may be that the child goes to him but it still hurts and you can not tell me that after watching vidioes of medical abortions that even the smallest child in the womb does feel pain. So I do know more about this i have just watched a vidoe of these abortion and they do rip apart the babies.How can you say they do not feel pian do you have their feelings.Poeple now adays cry over animals dieing than humans who are made in the image of God.As in the days of Nah so shall be the sign of the coming of the Lord.Every knee shall bow every tongue confess that Jesus isthe Lord.Those babies are not dead thank goodness oh they may not be in this world but that are up there with God himself perfect in everyway.So do not say that abortion is right God does make good out of evil.Put consider this every child aborted that could have been the next great presedent of our country.Or the next doc who could have found a cure for cancer and so on.Yes i do know God has a plan for everyone even thought he alows us our own free will that does not mean we make bad choices.

 

We normally start the actual tour to the Memorial with a

video presentation of Hard Truth. You may view it

online .

 

 

It is perhaps the most powerful film ever produced on abortion. Actual footage of living, in-utero children and their aborted peers tell the hard truth about abortion in ways "just words" never will. Hard Truth packs such unprecedented power, viewers can scarcely watch without being profoundly affected. In total, the film is only nine minutes long, and except for the introduction, there is no narration.

 

 

We also present MASSACRE OF INNOCENCE, you may view it online here. A two-part documentary, part one examines the history of abortion, it's sociological and medical evolution, and fraudulent claims of abortion proponents. Part two is a rare exploration of the spiritual forces behind abortion, it's roots in child sacrifice, feminist goddess worship, and witchcraft.

 

 

SILENT SCREAM: One of the most important pro-life video in the history of legalized abortion. Provides irrefutable evidence of the humanity of the unborn. Using an ultra-sound screen, former abortionist Dr. Bernard Nathanson narrates what happens during a first trimester abortion. Dr. Nathanson discusses the abortionist who agreed to allow this abortion to be filmed with ultrasound. The abortionist was quite skilled, having performed more than 10,000 abortions. We discover that the resulting ultrasound of his abortion so appalled him that he never again performed another abortion. View video HERE.

 

 

Warning These films show the very horrible reality of abortion in graphic detail. You may purchase VHS copies of these and many other powerful presentations directly from the producer

 

Edited February 20, 2013 by Laryal

[PointOfOrigin]

These are medical stuff i am talking about and i do know that evetryuone does not believe in him now but they will even you.Yes his plans may be that the child goes to him but it still hurts and you can not tell me that after watching vidioes of medical abortions that even the smallest child in the womb does feel pain. So I do know more about this  i have just watched a vidoe of these abortion and they do rip apart the babies.How can you say they do not feel pian do you have their feelings.Poeple now adays cry over animals dieing than humans who are made in the image of God.As in the days of Nah so shall be the sign of the coming of the Lord.Every knee shall bow every tongue confess that Jesus isthe Lord.Those babies are not dead thank goodness oh they may not be in this world but that are up there with God himself perfect in everyway.So do not say that abortion is right God does make good out of evil.Put consider this every child aborted that could have been the next great presedent of our country.Or the next doc who could have found a cure for cancer and so on.Yes i do know God has a plan for everyone even thought he alows us our own free will that does not mean we make bad choices.

*sigh* No they aren't feeling pain. If I wasn't in school right now, I would have pulled out some articles about it.

 

I wouldn't call myself on the Bible - especially since it's full of contradicting sentences, including the one that says you become a baby only after you are born.

 

The kid could also be a next Hitler. That argument is useless.

 

ETA: I think I've seen most of those films, and I'm pretty sure they are a hard propaganda.

Edited February 20, 2013 by PointOfOrigin

[7Deadly$ins]

They can't feel pain. They literally do not have the parts of their bodies and brains that are necessary to feel pain, much less feelings. It's impossible.

 

I asked you to watch videos and read unbiased medical information. All the sources you just provided are not those things.

[Laryal]

You can not tell me even if they say that they do not feel pain they do no matter what even death has pain for those with out nerves. Also would you all cry if you saw a dog or other animal having its baby taken out of it's womb? yes you would you would say poor thing let it live.I say poor childeren let them live.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Laryal

[7Deadly$ins]

You can not tell me even if they say that they do not feel pain they do no matter what even death has pain for those with out nerves.

They have no sense of cognition.

 

You are letting YOUR feelings about death get in the way of the actual medical fact. The body is not developed enough to feel anything physical or mentally.

 

Also you did not address the biased nature of your sources.

Edited February 20, 2013 by 7Deadly$ins

[Laryal]

How can you tell are you the ones that are being killed like this No you have your life why not let them have theirs.Also you can not tell me that even those babys that have no neves can not know they are dieing can you go into those little minds and tell ? No i thought not.So in cunculsion life is a very precious thing not just for a choosen few.But for each and every living breathing thing not just me and you.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Laryal

[Obscure_Trash]

Even if the cells react to pain, they have no type of sentience. They can't recognize, feel, nor understand pain. Their reaction is biological. Cells responding to signals. We know that because science is an amazing thing. :3

 

Why would I cry if I saw a fetus removed from an animal and how does that pertain to this discussion? o_O

[Laryal]

Becouse people will get veryupset about an animal being harmed over a child being aborted that is why.Animals are just animal even though i love them and feel sad when they die it is not like when a human dies at all.Like i said canthose scientst realy say that those babies can not feel how can they say that they may have a theroy on it but they realy do not know. life is a very precious thing not just for a choosen few.But for each and every living breathing thing not just me and you.Isn't the life of a child worth saving it? it will never know the love of the parents it had it never will know the love of a grandma or grand dad.Nor uncles or aunts who will spoil it rooten just becouse a mother had her own life to live.Why do these childern have to go at lest they are up in heaven full of life and joy and understanding.They look down and wonder what their life could have been.You know this hits home for me becous one of my nephews who was a twin died a few days after being born.You should have ben there they laid his bother by his side and his twin brother who is alive took his small hand like saying it was ok to go on. i will not go into the details on what was wronmg with our percoius gift but the twin who was sick semed to understand for the next day he was gone.It was like he held on till he knew his brother was safe and sound.Now after saying that how can you all say that those little ones do not know or understand even when in the womb and just a few weeks or months old?

Edited February 20, 2013 by Laryal

[Tazzay]

I think you're missing the fact that humans are also animals. We may not call ourselves that, but we are. Fetuses do not feel pain until a week after birth, when their senses actually start working. Yes, life is very precious thing, but sometimes life cannot be kept in some cases.

[PointOfOrigin]

Neonatal perception.

 

Scientific research generally indicates that the fetus is incapable of feeling pain until at least the 24th week.

 

Abortion can be had up to week 24 is some states, while most allow only to week 20. So while you could argue for lowering a time span in which abortion is taken, there's no basis for forbidding it.

 

And yes scientist do know. They certainly know much more then 2000 years old book.

Edited February 20, 2013 by PointOfOrigin

[Laryal]

They do feel and know if not then why did my nephews play and confort each other in my sister's womb? So you all are say they are nothing then you me and everyone else is nothing at all.Think about what you are saying here that just becouse science says it is true. Think for a moment not just with a scientific mind but a mind that goes beyond that isn't life human life more presious than anything else? So life to those who think abortion is right have no heart have no clear way of understanding that life is more presious than any thing else in this world.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Laryal

[PointOfOrigin]

They do feel and know if not then why did my nephews play and confort each other in my sister's womd? So you al;l are say they are nothing then you me and everyone else is nothing at all.Think about what you are saying here that just becouse science says it is true. Think for a moment not just with a scientific mind but a mind that goes beyond that isn't life human life more presious than anything else?

And at what week did that happen? People have already explained to you the proofs that they don't feel right of the bat. Anecdotes can't be held at same level as scientific research.

 

Mother is also a human, and yes, I do think that her life is worth more then a possible human life.

[Tazzay]

They do feel and know if not then why did my nephews play and confort each other in my sister's womb? So you all are say they are nothing then you me and everyone else is nothing at all.Think about what you are saying here that just becouse science says it is true. Think for a moment not just with a scientific mind but a mind that goes beyond that isn't life human life more presious than anything else? So life to those who think abortion is right have no heart have no clear way of understanding that life is more presious than any thing else in this world.

I may get blown up for this, but i'll say it anyway. Human life isn't the most precious thing in the world. There are some times where a human life must be lost to save another. Those who support abortion do so for a cause. Just because we support it doesn't mean we don't have a heart and don't have a clear understanding of life.

[Laryal]

So what you are saying is taking one life for anouther is ok.So then each and every one that murdered has i right not to go to jail they had a right to kill that person just like a mother has a right to kill that unborn child .The ten comanments thou shalt not kill point made .Killing an unborn child is just like the murderier who kills someone to me it is the same murder is murder no matter how much you want to think it is not. People have to clear judjments any more to what is realy right and wrong and i see that on this topic as well it is a shame indeeed it is.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Laryal

[7Deadly$ins]

They do feel and know if not then why did my nephews play and confort each other in my sister's womb? So you all are say they are nothing then you me and everyone else is nothing at all.Think about what you are saying here that just becouse science says it is true. Think for a moment not just with a scientific mind but a mind that goes beyond that isn't life human life more presious than anything else? So life to those who think abortion is right  have no heart have no clear way of understanding that life is more presious than any thing else in this world.

And what makes it clear that it was "play and comfort"? How did you determine that's what it was? How do you know it wasn't something else?

 

Your religious arguments mean nothing to me. I don't believe in your god.

Edited February 20, 2013 by 7Deadly$ins

[Tazzay]

So what you are saying is taking one life for anouther is ok.So then each and every one that murdered has i right not to go to jail they had a right to kill that person just like a mother has a right to kill that unborn child .The ten comanments thou shalt not kill. point made .Killing an unborn child is just like the murderier who kills someone to me it is the same murder is murder no matter how much you want to think it is not.

In some cases, yes. If a mother has a disability or an illness and she cannot financially take care of the baby, why be forced to take care of one. The mother may not even survive the birth, and die in the process. Would you rather have a motherless baby or a woman who could slowly repair herself so she would be fit enough to have a baby?