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Formerly pro-life, now pro-choice, because I don't and cannot assume that I know more than G-d about when life and humanity begin.

At least you admit that, unlike "religious" pro-birthers who try doing what they think is g-d's work. Judging and punishing. Isn't that a sin?

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Another incident. This time stereotype was drug in. I was looking at a college my older sister was going to with her. There was a group of people and several tables. I thought they were clubs of some sort in recruiting. Two girls approached and before they could start talking, I signed "I'm deaf". They started talking to each other. I didn't know what they were saying but one eventually turned backed to me and brought me to a table. I found out it was a pro-life group. Or what many others call, pro-birth. I'm 19 years old and they started showing me pictures of fetuses and how they're made like I was an 11-year old. Then they brought out the pictures bloody fetuses and gave me false info. Some of it was ridiculous. Here was some of it:

 

Over 90% of women who have abortions regret it and have nightmares

 

A woman will get flash backs if she hears a vacuum

 

A fetus can think and be fully developed by one month

 

Most women who get abortions are irresponsible

 

Abortions will cause infertility

The list goes on. I couldn't take much more of it. So I got a pen and wrote down on the back of a "murdered" fetus picture, "I may be deaf, but I'm not stupid. I've done biology and human growth AND statistics and none of this is true."

 

Doesn't the government have common sense that there's thousands of starving kids already with no parents. There's barely any funding or food and this movement will only make it worse..

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Abortions will cause infertility

I'd have *loved* to have had someone try telling me that. I'd ask if they realised that many of the women wanting abortions have repeatedly asked to be sterelised and been turned down. There are some people that would actualy *welcome* being made infertile.

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A woman will get flash backs if she hears a vacuum

 

 

*epic facepalm* I don't even know where to begin...

 

Some women do regret it but these are minority. Majority are glad they got one.

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Another incident. This time stereotype was drug in. I was looking at a college my older sister was going to with her. There was a group of people and several tables. I thought they were clubs of some sort in recruiting. Two girls approached and before they could start talking, I signed "I'm deaf". They started talking to each other. I didn't know what they were saying but one eventually turned backed to me and brought me to a table. I found out it was a pro-life group. Or what many others call, pro-birth. I'm 19 years old and they started showing me pictures of fetuses and how they're made like I was an 11-year old. Then they brought out the pictures bloody fetuses and gave me false info. Some of it was ridiculous. Here was some of it:

 

Over 90% of women who have abortions regret it and have nightmares

 

A woman will get flash backs if she hears a vacuum

 

A fetus can think and be fully developed by one month

 

Most women who get abortions are irresponsible

 

Abortions will cause infertility

The list goes on. I couldn't take much more of it. So I got a pen and wrote down on the back of a "murdered" fetus picture, "I may be deaf, but I'm not stupid. I've done biology and human growth AND statistics and none of this is true."

 

Doesn't the government have common sense that there's thousands of starving kids already with no parents. There's barely any funding or food and this movement will only make it worse..

It's probably not the government with that small band of pro-life you talked to, just normal people that are trying to deceive because they really don't have any real prof to their case. though the people in the gov. seem not to look at the logic and ignore the necessary of safe abortions and all.

 

small groups like that who spout all those lies only do it because their exstreamist that don't have real evidence to there cause. they try and play the pitty and fear card everytime when they can't support there claims. i would not pay them too much attention though. i had these types of people come to my school though because they wear not allowed in they stood off of school property close to the school and bugged people there, i just ignore them and pretend i don't hear them when i would walk home. they did that every year i was in school and around every few months in between, that is them and those people that try and shove a bible in your face when you have somewhere else to be. dry.gif

 

if i had a guess i would say that they probably really did not have a education and/or there religious beliefs. but that is just my guess.

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The list goes on. I couldn't take much more of it. So I got a pen and wrote down on the back of a "murdered" fetus picture, "I may be deaf, but I'm not stupid. I've done biology and human growth AND statistics and none of this is true."

 

I really wanna know what their reaction was xd.png

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I really wanna know what their reaction was xd.png

I didn't pay attention. I remember the most ridiculous "fact" they put was that abortion was linked to breast cancer. I don't see how getting something vacuumed out of you for a few minutes would spawn cancer in the breast.

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I didn't pay attention. I remember the most ridiculous "fact" they put was that abortion was linked to breast cancer. I don't see how getting something vacuumed out of you for a few minutes would spawn cancer in the breast.

I am not saying it does, but ending a pregnancy early may do very strange things to hormones which could lead to breast cancer. Seems like a likely vector if it is linked.

 

Anyhow, you can read up on why it's probably still around as misinformation here: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factshe...ion-miscarriage

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I am not saying it does, but ending a pregnancy early may do very strange things to hormones which could lead to breast cancer. Seems like a likely vector if it is linked.

 

Anyhow, you can read up on why it's probably still around as misinformation here: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factshe...ion-miscarriage

Miscarriages happen when the body aborts by itself for some reason, maybe sickness or bad health and causing the self abortion would have to need a lot of hormones. But abortions at clinics...

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Abortions at clinics still end a pregnancy and thus a body which was programed for as long as humanity is around to deal with nine months of hormones gets all of that cut off. One way or another, the pregnancy hormones end before they were supposed to. The link I left said that scientists only discovered it wasn't linked in the '90's after studying it for a few decades before that. For a lot of people, the '90's isn't that distant a memory that the rather understandable misinformation doesn't still linger with people who really want to believe it. If it took scientists 40+ years to figure it out, I'm not at all surprised some people still think they are linked.

 

All I was saying was the "fact" wasn't so outrageous as all that. It was wrong, but it was the insidious kind of wrong that gets stuck in people's heads: the kind that makes sense.

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I believe it's been proven that it doesn't. When it comes to stress hormones from the abortion, maybe. Some women are actually forced to get abortions, which I believe is just as bad as denying a woman to get one. If they want that child, let them have it.

 

Then there are women who get pregnant on purpose irresponsibly. Like I was watching t.v a month ago and this woman who got her kids taken away by CPS because she was a drug addict and it caused one of her kids to be born with cocaine in his system . Now her and her fiance "protest" the right to get her kids by having more and more kids and every time she births them, they get taken away and thrown into the system.

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Then there are women who get pregnant on purpose irresponsibly. Like I was watching t.v a month ago and this woman who got her kids taken away by CPS because she was a drug addict and it caused one of her kids to be born with cocaine in his system . Now her and her fiance "protest" the right to get her kids by having more and more kids and every time she births them, they get taken away and thrown into the system.

That doesn't make sense me, protest by having more offspring that will get tossed into a foster home and born with drugs in there system. that woman is going to end up killing herself. the more offspring you have damages your body especially if its a pregnant back to back. if i am right then the offspring has a higher chance of dying that way and having slight bone misshaping?

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I believe it's been proven that it doesn't. When it comes to stress hormones from the abortion, maybe. Some women are actually forced to get abortions, which I believe is just as bad as denying a woman to get one. If they want that child, let them have it.

 

Then there are women who get pregnant on purpose irresponsibly. Like I was watching t.v a month ago and this woman who got her kids taken away by CPS because she was a drug addict and it caused one of her kids to be born with cocaine in his system . Now her and her fiance "protest" the right to get her kids by having more and more kids and every time she births them, they get taken away and thrown into the system.

I'm familiar with a very similar story. Almost ten years ago, my grandparents began fostering children. They found a sibling set of four who all shared the same mother, and the two middle children were full siblings. They were all a few years apart, and all of them had cases of fetal alcohol syndrome. (I believe there may have been something else with one of the kids also, but I can't remember)

All the children had been taken away from their mother because she was an irresponsible jack*** and had sex all the time, and didn't take care of herself when pregnant. My grandparents ended up adopting all four kids, but this woman did not take any precautions and continued to get pregnant. She's had two more children since then, and I'm certain it'll only be a matter of time before they're taken away too. The youngest one, actually, was a "surprise" baby- the mom claimed she didn't even know she was pregnant. Anyways, my own moms were thinking about adopting this child once she was born, but the mother decided she had to keep it because "it was her baby, no one else's".

 

:/ The second oldest kid that my grandparents adopted from this bunch died two years ago exactly, actually. He had a lot of issues and when he was 18 he went to go live in a half-a-way house in a town nearby to my grandparents. Anyways, at 1:30 in the morning on Thanksgiving day, he and his buddies decided to cross a highway on foot, and he got hit by a car and was killed. After his death, my family discovered that he would have been diagnosed with schizophrenia as well. Anyway, I can only imagine how much better it would have been if Jack had been aborted. He wouldn't have known all that pain and misery in his life. That's a big reason why I support abortion. I just wish his mother was smart enough to get her ass to the clinic.

Edited by Shiny Hazard Sign

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I do think that it's ultimately the mother's choice, but the father should have some say, as long as he's responsible about it.

However, I also think that the mother needs to seriously consider before getting pregnant. If she knows she's not ready, then she should try her best to not get pregnant. She needs to be responsible.

Summary: I'm pro-choice, however the mother should be as responsible as she can if she's not ready for a baby.

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I've had the "what is a parasite" debate with two biologists, a zoologist and three chemists, all of whom agreed that a fetus is by definition a parasite, and symbiont is not a term which should be given any scientific credence.

Imo, the relationship of a fetus to the mother is parasitic if the mother doesn't want it, and symbiotic if the mother does want it. She may not be getting any physical benefits(unless she really wanted bigger boobs laugh.gif), but the mental and emotional(love) benefits would be there.

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Imo, the relationship of a fetus to the mother is parasitic if the mother doesn't want it, and symbiotic if the mother does want it. She may not be getting any physical benefits(unless she really wanted bigger boobs  laugh.gif), but the mental and emotional(love) benefits would be there.

Well every woman has it differently. After seeing what pregnancy did to my sister, I never want to become pregnant. She's like a gasbag now and over weight, which is the thing I fear the most. But my mother managed to do just fine with her body after four pregnancies so it all varies.

 

 

I've seen pregnancies mess up married couple's relationships. There was one woman who was beautiful but after having two kids, she gained weight and her husband no longer finds her attractive and ignores her a lot. I'm not saying that this happens to everyone. Because men have to be censorkip.gifs to treat their spouse this way. I'm saying that after affects can be physical cons that just don't weigh out the pros.

 

 

I do want to know if other countries still offer abortions where you aren't awake through it.

Edited by GhostChilli

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I find it difficult to take a stance on this topic because of the two factors that I think about. What happens when you can't take care of the child? Going into foster care can be just as bad as neglect and death sometimes, so how does that influence someone to get an abortion? The second factor is if you don't want or can't care for your child the proper way, don't go out and get pregnant.

 

In some situations (Notice that I said that it happens in some situations), foster care can be just as bad as neglect and death. From my belief of the abortion side I think that it's alright just as long as the child isn't too far developed. It's considered murder to me to suddenly want and get an abortion around the time that the child is due to enter this world, it's just not right to do that.

 

The second factor is that if you know that you can't care for a child and you don't want to have a child, don't go out and get yourself pregnant. Be mature and responsible for your actions. Don't get yourself drunk or raped if you can help it. Don't let someone use peer pressure to get bad things out of you. Respect yourself and in the process you'll also better protect yourself.

Edited by Spinxo

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The second factor is that if you know that you can't care for a child and you don't want to have a child, don't go out and get yourself pregnant. Be mature and responsible for your actions. Don't get yourself drunk or raped if you can help it. Don't let someone use peer pressure to get bad things out of you. Respect yourself and in the process you'll protect yourself.

This doesn't stop rapist. Ask shiny. And sex is a bond.

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This doesn't stop rapist. Ask shiny. And sex is a bond.

In some situations, however, rape can be avoided and that is what I meant. There is such thing as date rape which in that case you know the person who raped you. Notice that I faced this fact in my last paragraph. It cannot always be stopped, but by refusing to subject yourself to those things, you can better protect yourself from a date rape or a rape from someone around you that you don't know. For example, you can just as easily be raped in a bar when you're drunk by someone you don't know than you can from someone you know, but you can avoid that situation by taking responsibility and not going to a place where you know it can happen to anyone.

Edited by Spinxo

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Um.... how exactly can one "refuse to subject" themselves to rape? RAPE ISN'T A CHOICE. No one *chooses* to go out and get date raped, and chances are that IF someone realizes that someone else has the ability to date rape them, they aren't going to go with that person in the first place.

 

If you don't go to a place where rape can happen, that means *never going anywhere*, since rape can happen on a bus or at a job or in the park or at your own house.

 

Your post shows a complete lack of understanding of rape, and frankly it's insulting to actual rape victims.

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Um.... how exactly can one "refuse to subject" themselves to rape? RAPE ISN'T A CHOICE. No one *chooses* to go out and get date raped, and chances are that IF someone realizes that someone else has the ability to date rape them, they aren't going to go with that person in the first place.

 

If you don't go to a place where rape can happen, that means *never going anywhere*, since rape can happen on a bus or at a job or in the park or at your own house.

 

Your post shows a complete lack of understanding of rape, and frankly it's insulting to actual rape victims.

You are right, but some places can make you more vulnerable to these things. You can refuse to subject yourself to those happenings if you try to avoid places that have a higher chance of it happening. Notice that I'm not saying it can be avoided all the time. Yes, rape is highly unvoluntary, but just avoiding the places that make you more vulnerable to it can already lower the chances of being subjected to it. And thanks for the insult. I appreciate your attempts to be mature about this topic. I'm not trying to troll or be insultive to those who've actually been raped, I have a friend who was a victim of it, thank you. I'm going to leave this topic and settle down since this happens to be going nowhere, but to the flames.

Edited by Spinxo

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*snorts* how am I insulting you by trying to explain why *your* post is insulting to rape victims? Have you ever had to deal with rape? Have you ever been in that position? If not, I don't think you can say with any authority that women can just "avoid" places.

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Your post shows a complete lack of understanding of rape, and frankly it's insulting to actual rape victims.

 

That seemed pretty insultive to me, but I'm going away from this topic for a while. There's no need to respond.

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You are right, but some places can make you more vulnerable to these things. You can refuse to subject yourself to those happenings if you try to avoid places that have a higher chance of it happening. Notice that I'm not saying it can be avoided all the time. Yes, rape is highly unvoluntary, but just avoiding the places that make you more vulnerable to it can already lower the chances of being subjected to it. And thanks for the insult. I appreciate your attempts to be mature about this topic. I'm not trying to troll or be insultive to those who've actually been raped, I have a friend who was a victim of it, thank you. I'm going to leave this topic and settle down since this happens to be going nowhere, but to the flames.

The problem you run into here is there is basically nowhere a woman can go that is 100% guaranteed rape-free, unless it's a bunker-like house with a top-rated security system and a squad of trained attack dogs that no one else is ever allowed to enter. Women are raped at school, in their laundry rooms, in stores, at clubs, in parks, in back alleys, in their car...

 

Victims of sexual assault are never, even partially, to blame for their assault. The person who is 100% culpable for rape is the rapist, every time.

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You are right, but some places can make you more vulnerable to these things. You can refuse to subject yourself to those happenings if you try to avoid places that have a higher chance of it happening. Notice that I'm not saying it can be avoided all the time. Yes, rape is highly unvoluntary, but just avoiding the places that make you more vulnerable to it can already lower the chances of being subjected to it. And thanks for the insult. I appreciate your attempts to be mature about this topic. I'm not trying to troll or be insultive to those who've actually been raped, I have a friend who was a victim of it, thank you. I'm going to leave this topic and settle down since this happens to be going nowhere, but to the flames.

 

Unfortunately, it isn't that simple. You can take precautions, its true, but there's no way to completely avert the chances. Especially if a person has to miss out on a lot of really enjoyable aspects of life just because of this fear...never going to a bar or out for an evening, always staying in large groups, etc....those aren't always practical. And as previously stated, you can get raped almost anywhere. Female journalists have been raped by the people they were going to interview. Girls have been raped in schools and Churches. Women have been raped at work.

Edited by Completely Different

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