Abortion

[Sorrowgrave]

why was that study even needed?

 

It's pretty obvious.

 

Though I think the IQ's of republicans have gone into the sewers years ago,

 

"Abortion doctors preform Abortions on women who aren't pregnant to raise money."

 

"After giving birth women are given abortions"

 

umm.. that second one, wouldn't it be counted as murder?

 

Atkins...you're a idoit.

[brairtrainer]

why was that study even needed?

 

It's pretty obvious.

 

Though I think the IQ's of republicans have gone into the sewers years ago,

 

"Abortion doctors preform Abortions on women who aren't pregnant to raise money."

 

"After giving birth women are given abortions"

 

umm.. that second one, wouldn't it be counted as murder?

 

Atkins...you're a idoit.

*facepalm* <- can we get that as a smilely?

 

Anyways, not all republican's iq's have gone to the sewers, but the ones running for office have. Honestly I liked Palin despite her being pro-life, because while she contributed to pro-life organizations the only time I heard her mention (coming from liberal news services) pro-life had to do with her son with down syndrom and her daughter who chose to keep the child she got pregnant with.

 

Palin was more concerned with the fact that because she was a woman people wouldn't vote for her (A neighbor told her that she had three strikes against her when she ran for mayor of her town, her three children,) and corruption in government. If she ran for president and did not move her pro-life stance to the front of the issues I'd vote for her, but thats just me.

 

Feel free to give me information if I'm wrong though! Honestly that how people learn.

[Vhale]

As long as groups like the Family Research Council hold major sway over our politicians, it will never be accepted.

 

Jeanne Monahan of the conservative Family Research Council suggested contraceptive use can encourage riskier sexual behavior.

 

"Additionally, one might conclude that the Obama administration's contraception mandate may ultimately cause more unplanned pregnancies since it mandates that all health plans cover contraceptives, including those that the study's authors claim are less effective," Monahan said.

 

Source

[Brite]

why was that study even needed?

 

It's pretty obvious.

 

Though I think the IQ's of republicans have gone into the sewers years ago,

 

"Abortion doctors preform Abortions on women who aren't pregnant to raise money."

 

"After giving birth women are given abortions"

 

umm.. that second one, wouldn't it be counted as murder?

 

Atkins...you're a idoit.

I don't see why a woman would have something up her area and sucked just to put money in the clinic's pockets.

 

They clearly don't know what an abortion really is if they think it can happen when a woman has already given birth. More proof that they're nuts.

[Rosedamai]

Just a quick link here before I go out for volunteer work-

 

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2012/03/31...livestock-bill/

After an emotional 14-hour workday that included fist-fights between lobbyists and a walk-out by women Democrats, the Georgia House passed a Senate-approved bill Thursday night that criminalizes abortion after 20 weeks.

 

The bill, which does not contain rape or incest exemptions, is expected to receive a signature from Republican Gov. Nathan Deal.

 

HB 954 garnered national attention this month when state Rep. Terry England (R-Auburn) compared pregnant women carrying stillborn fetuses to the cows and pigs on his farm. According to Rep. England and his warped thought process, if farmers have to “deliver calves, dead or alive,” then a woman carrying a dead fetus, or one not expected to survive, should have to carry it to term.

 

The bill as first proposed outlawed all abortions after 20 weeks under all circumstances. After negotiations with the Senate, the House passed a revised HB 954 that makes an exemption for “medically futile” pregnancies or those in which the woman’s life or health is threatened.

 

If this makes its seem like Rep. England and the rest of the representatives looked beyond their cows and pigs and recognized women as capable, full-thinking human beings, think again: HB 954 excludes a woman’s “emotional or mental condition,” which means women suffering from mental illness would be forced to carry a pregnancy to term. It also ignores pregnant women who are suicidal and driven to inflict harm on themselves because of their unwanted pregnancy.

[Aurvandil]

About this issue i'm divided between two facts, in my opinion it's bad because it kills the fetus, but at the same time i think that the only person who has right of decision upon a woman's body is the woman herself, therefore i think that a government cannot criminalize abortion since a government doesn't own a person's body, i think that the only solution is massive awareness, raise public awareness over unwanted pregnancy, contraceptive methods, preventing the pregnancy is so much better than the necessity of abortion, but if the woman gets pregnant accidentally i think it's her right to decide whether to have the baby or not, so i'm against criminalize abortion, but i think that the abortion could be done in the early days of the pregnancy so the baby isn't yet formed, people say that at a certain stage of the formation of the organism the baby inside the womb can feel isn't? i don't know, anyway i'm against criminalization of abortion. though there's another point, i'm a white male and for my own interests i think that birth control is a disgrace, it's unnatural, i think that women should have babies, have children, many children, fertility is a major issue in the objectives of our people along history, this was the most important thing to the primitive peoples, our ancestors, this is what we are born to do, while women are taking care of their careers, living their professional lives, they have no time for children, the average birth rate of white females worlwide is 1-2 children per couple, this is not enough to maintain the managing of the population number steady, and in consequence the population is decreasing more and more each generation, i think that woman and man should both work and take care of the children, i don't understand why there was this taboo in society that women should only take care of the children and do housework, and men work out and bring the money home, this system made tho women revolt, fighting for their rights and such, but made them stop having children to live their careers, which is terrible to our people, men and women should share the work, both housewifery and professioal work, at long least i think that women must have self-determination to decide whether have babies or not, and take care for not become pregnant if she doesn't want to, but i also think that people must keep having chidldren because this the main purpose of life, if you don't have children you don't know what you're losing, it's the best thing in the world, but this is just a personal conviction of mine. I know that as a male i don't have any right to give a say in something that doesn't affect me directly, and i don't have this intention, but in any case this is my opinion.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Aurvandil

[KageSora]

...I hate the "unnatural" argument. It's so hypocritical.

 

You do realize that being on the Internet is unnatural, too, right? So are cars, computers, air conditioning, mass-produced clothing, etc.

 

And, honestly, I'm rather offended that you think women SHOULD have children. So, as I am physically female, I should give birth to a child I will probably be arrested for neglecting? Because I cannot care for a child. I'm not that kind of person. It would NOT be the best thing in the world for me. I do not do well around children--and no, not all women will automatically love whatever they spawn. There are plenty of women who flat-out kill their children because they hate them, or who raise them but despise them. Hell, I don't ever want a romantic partner. Well, not one I'd be sexual with--I'm asexual, so for me actually having sex to produce a child is unnatural. :|

 

That is very, very, very outdated, backwards, and sexist thinking.

 

And we kind of have over 7 billion people on the planet. I don't think it's such a bad thing if the overall population starts to fall.

 

I'd like to think that, as humans, we don't NEED to have kids to have a full life. Besides, it's not like the world will care one way or another if humanity dies out. We're just another species. (Not to say I WANT humanity to die out, just that it's not like it'd be the end of the world). We, as humans, have evolved beyond just living to reproduce. We have awareness of things beyond ourselves and our species. There is so much more to life than just poppin' out kids. Children are not the be-all and end-all of life anymore.

 

 

 

Edit: Also, birth control is natural. There are naturally occurring plants that animals actually use to reduce the chances of pregnancy.

 

Strier found that, at different times, muriqui monkeys (Brachyteles arachnoides) of Brazil go out of their way to eat the leaves of Apuleia leiocarpa and Platypodium elegans, and the fruit of Enterlobium contortisiliquim (monkey's ear). The first two plants contain isoflavanoids, which arecompounds similar to estrogen. Ingesting the leaves may increase estrogen levels in thebody, thereby decreasing fertility. Alternatively, eating monkey's ear may increase the monkey's chances of becoming pregnant because the plant contains a precursor to progesterone (the "pregnancy hormone") called stigmasterol.

Source

 

Woolly spider monkeys may be using plants in very specific ways to influence their reproduction. Two plants that they often eat are high in estrogen, so eating them may actually decrease fertility. In other words, they may be using these plants as a form of birth control.

Source

Edited October 12, 2012 by KageSora

[Obscure_Trash]

I'm always confused whenever anyone says the population is declining.

 

In developed countries, it's pretty stable, perhaps decreasing a bit, but pretty much stable (unchanging).

In developing countries, it's increasing.

 

http://blog.world-mysteries.com/wp-content...nGrowth2050.jpg

http://www.school-portal.co.uk/platforms/2...07_original.jpg

 

We may have used to struggle about our populations, but we certainly don't anymore. We're struggling to keep people in houses, to make sure people have food, to make sure people have healthcare, to make sure people have water. Even in developed countries. If we can't take care of the people we have now, why should we want to increase that?

 

I think Kage hit anything else I wanted to touch upon.

 

if you don't have children you don't know what you're losing, it's the best thing in the world, but this is just a personal conviction of mine

 

I'm glad you feel that way! It's always great when people are passionate about something.

 

I, however, do not want kids. Neither does my boyfriend. Not now and not ever. I do not believe I am missing out because of this. Life would be way less beautiful without all the diversity and wide range of interests and passions we have!

 

For example, I really want to go skydiving one day. I know that I am missing out by not doing this. However, my best friend is terrified of skydiving and thinks it's too risky and doesn't want to do it. Is she missing out? No, because that's not where her interest lies. She's much happier doing other things.

 

If I wanted kids but was unable to have or to adopt them, then I would be missing out. But I don't want kids and so it doesn't pain me to not have them, so I'm not really missing out. ^^

 

But I do respect that even though you think all of that, you still support not criminalizing abortion and equal work in job and house for men and women. :3

[Switch]

i think that women should have babies, have children, many children

No, god, please. I'm biologically female, and I've always had a very deep fear of pregnancy and childbirth. Just thinking about it makes me nervous. I can't stand little babies, either, they make me really uncomfortable and their crying causes me so much stress. Having a child, especially many children, would wreck me.

 

Girls don't exist for the sheer purpose of having tons of babies. :L

[demonicvampiregirl]

I'm glad you feel that way! It's always great when people are passionate about something.

 

I, however, do not want kids. Neither does my boyfriend. Not now and not ever. I do not believe I am missing out because of this. Life would be way less beautiful without all the diversity and wide range of interests and passions we have!

 

For example, I really want to go skydiving one day. I know that I am missing out by not doing this. However, my best friend is terrified of skydiving and thinks it's too risky and doesn't want to do it. Is she missing out? No, because that's not where her interest lies. She's much happier doing other things.

 

If I wanted kids but was unable to have or to adopt them, then I would be missing out. But I don't want kids and so it doesn't pain me to not have them, so I'm not really missing out. ^^

 

But I do respect that even though you think all of that, you still support not criminalizing abortion and equal work in job and house for men and women. :3

I agree. I'm 21 and don't plan to ever have any. I can't stand them, don't put up with them and the way they are turning out now is a major turn off. I don't want to have to deal with all the stuff they get into. So I don't view it as I'm missing out on anything. I doubt I will change my mind anytime soon if ever.

 

No, god, please. I'm biologically female, and I've always had a very deep fear of pregnancy and childbirth. Just thinking about it makes me nervous. I can't stand little babies, either, they make me really uncomfortable and their crying causes me so much stress. Having a child, especially many children, would wreck me.

 

Girls don't exist for the sheer purpose of having tons of babies. :L

 

I agree. I hate it that people only see women as baby making machines, kitchen slaves or anything of the sort. We are human are we not? Do we not have the same rights as every male in choosing what we want to do and how to live?

 

the average birth rate of white females worlwide is 1-2 children per couple, this is not enough to maintain the managing of the population number steady, and in consequence the population is decreasing more and more each generation,

 

I completely disagree. This planet can only hold so much and if we constantly have kids we are going to over populate the planet and that is going to cause issues. I don't see a decrease in numbers. It's always going up and barely ever comes down. We only have so much space, food, and water to go around. :/

Edited October 12, 2012 by demonicvampiregirl

[DarkLadyNyara]

but i think that the abortion could be done in the early days of the pregnancy so the baby isn't yet formed, people say that at a certain stage of the formation of the organism the baby inside the womb can feel isn't?

 

Most researchers don't think fetuses can feel pain until sometime during the third trimester. Just FYI.

 

i think that birth control is a disgrace, it's unnatural,

He says while posting on the internet.

 

Hey, you want to know what else is unnatural? Sanitation, medicine, agriculture, computers, low infant/child mortality rates, and average life expectancies that top forty.

 

Infanticide is natural, though. So there's that.

 

i think that women should have babies, have children, many children, fertility is a major issue in the objectives of our people along history, this was the most important thing to the primitive peoples, our ancestors, this is what we are born to do,

We weren't "born" to do anything, actually. And see above re: sanitation, medicine and technology. And fertillity was an issue partly due to simple economics (children were an economic resource throughout much of history- i.e. as extra labor) and partly because a lot of children died.

 

the average birth rate of white females worlwide is 1-2 children per couple, this is not enough to maintain the managing of the population number steady, and in consequence the population is decreasing more and more each generation,

Wow. There are so many things wrong with that, I don't even know where to start.

 

The global population is increasing exponentially. There are more than seven billion of us. Seriously- you couldn't spend five minutes on Google fact-checking this? (pro-tip: "people" != "white people")

 

i also think that people must keep having chidldren because this the main purpose of life, if you don't have children you don't know what you're losing, it's the best thing in the world, but this is just a personal conviction of mine.

Good for you. Having children would very much not be the "best thing" in my life. In fact, likely outcomes would involve suicide and/or filicide.

[TikindiDragon]

I'm always confused whenever anyone says the population is declining.

 

In developed countries, it's pretty stable, perhaps decreasing a bit, but pretty much stable (unchanging).

In developing countries, it's increasing.

 

http://blog.world-mysteries.com/wp-content...nGrowth2050.jpg

http://www.school-portal.co.uk/platforms/2...07_original.jpg

 

We may have used to struggle about our populations, but we certainly don't anymore. We're struggling to keep people in houses, to make sure people have food, to make sure people have healthcare, to make sure people have water. Even in developed countries. If we can't take care of the people we have now, why should we want to increase that?

Ah, hrrrm, I can see what's he's getting at. The population of western countries (certainly the UK) is largely growing due to immigration, and not the birth-rate of people already living here (which in many cases is very low).

 

What would be more accurate is that he's trying to say the *white* population is decreasing. I think the language made it pretty clear that that's what he was getting at. And, to be fair to him, it's entirely possible that's accurate (as I know studies in the UK have show foreign-born mothers have more children than UK-born mothers). I can't agree at all with his reasoning that that means we need to breed more to keep up, but if he's only talking about one specific race, well, I can't exactly call him out on being totally inaccurate.

 

(for those that didn't know I've been arguing that continual growth is unsustainable in the long run, and that humanity is well past the point where it can live sustainably on this planet without a large *reduction* in our numbers. To me, falling birth rates are a good thing.)

Edited October 12, 2012 by TikindiDragon

[Syaoransbear]

i also think that people must keep having chidldren because this the main purpose of life, if you don't have children you don't know what you're losing, it's the best thing in the world, but this is just a personal conviction of mine.

My sister-in-law, her husband, and her two children ages 2 and 4 forgot to renew the lease on their apartment while their house is being made so right now they live with us in our basement suite. So I can logically, without being clouded by maternal hormones that would convince me that the hell those kids create is somehow worth it, see what raising a child is really like.

 

I'll just sum it up by saying: I'm really not sure who cries more, the mother or the kids.

 

Well it's 1:27am and the baby is crying right now, so the kids might win that one. Maybe.

 

It doesn't look fun or rewarding. Children are constant mess makers, noise makers, stress makers and marriage wreckers.

 

The best thing in the world for me right now is my marriage, and I'm not going to ruin it or basically put it on a 20 year hiatus by having a kid. My inlaws are constantly fighting with each other over things their kids did, and every other parent I've seen with children has been incredibly sharp and inconsiderate to their spouse in the exact same way.

 

It makes no sense to me when people think that everyone should have children and everyone would like it, even if they hate children. You wouldn't tell someone who passionately hates dogs to go get a dog, would you? It's not logical in that scenario, so I don't know why people think it's logical to assume child-haters should have their own.

 

So yeah, after living with these children I've got a pretty good idea of what I'm losing, and I'm feeling pretty darn great about it.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Syaoransbear

[Obscure_Trash]

Ah, hrrrm, I can see what's he's getting at. The population of western countries (certainly the UK) is largely growing due to immigration, and not the birth-rate of people already living here (which in many cases is very low).

 

What would be more accurate is that he's trying to say the *white* population is decreasing. I think the language made it pretty clear that that's what he was getting at. And, to be fair to him, it's entirely possible that's accurate (as I know studies in the UK have show foreign-born mothers have more children than UK-born mothers). I can't agree at all with his reasoning that that means we need to breed more to keep up, but if he's only talking about one specific race, well, I can exactly call him out on being totally inaccurate.

 

(for those that didn't know I've been arguing that continual growth is unsustainable in the long run, and that humanity is well past the point where it can live sustainably on this planet without a large *reduction* in our numbers. To me, falling birth rates are a good thing.)

Ah, I see. My bad, then. I did miss some big chunks of the text, as my eye kind of freaked out with no paragraph breaks.

[Rosedamai]

About this issue i'm divided between two facts, in my opinion it's bad because it kills the fetus, but at the same time i think that the only person who has right of decision upon a woman's body is the woman herself, therefore i think that a government cannot criminalize abortion since a government doesn't own a person's body, i think that the only solution is massive awareness, raise public awareness over unwanted pregnancy, contraceptive methods, preventing the pregnancy is so much better than the necessity of abortion, but if the woman gets pregnant accidentally i think it's her right to decide whether to have the baby or not, so i'm against criminalize abortion,

I think so too.

 

but i think that the abortion could be done in the early days of the pregnancy so the baby isn't yet formed, people say that at a certain stage of the formation of the organism the baby inside the womb can feel isn't?

Thing is though, if you've a very irregular menstruation period some people DO go on for about 3 months without having one, so I'm a bit iffy on that.

 

i'm a white male and for my own interests

Except abortion is a woman's decision and so your interests shouldn't factor in perhaps as heavily as you may think, but do go on.

 

i think that birth control is a disgrace, it's unnatural, i think that women should have babies, have children, many children, fertility is a major issue in the objectives of our people along history, this was the most important thing to the primitive peoples, our ancestors, this is what we are born to do,

1. Birth control does occur in nature.

2. "Unnatural" says the man who's using a computer. Tell me, where do the computer trees grow?

3. I "should" have a baby? Is it like a mandatory thing? Like how I "should" be more aware of what's going on in the news or how I "should" be voting? Because if you're saying that all women "should" have a baby you are infringing on the rights to body that many women have, what are you going to do, drag us screaming to a fertilization chamber? This is ridiculous.

4. Fertility is important. Yet not everyone's cut out to be a parent, and we're not living in primitive times, so I don't think it's as central to individual lives as it once was, and there are many other things that we are born to do.

 

while women are taking care of their careers, living their professional lives, they have no time for children, the average birth rate of white females worlwide is 1-2 children per couple, this is not enough to maintain the managing of the population number steady, and in consequence the population is decreasing more and more each generation i think that woman and man should both work and take care of the children, i don't understand why there was this taboo in society that women should only take care of the children and do housework, and men work out and bring the money home, this system made tho women revolt, fighting for their rights and such, but made them stop having children to live their careers, which is terrible to our people, men and women should share the work, both housewifery and professioal work, at long least i think that women must have self-determination to decide whether have babies or not, and take care for not become pregnant if she doesn't want to,

1. Why would we have no time for children? Because we have no system that accurately takes care of them while the women work. You have no idea how demanding a baby can get and how we need adequate daycare and pregnancy leave, many of which we lack in many countries.

2. "White women" yeah, let's talk about the white women not having children. Because women of other colors not having children aren't as important. Silly me.

3. Yes the system made the women revolt because they wanted other things in their lives. Really, if you want women to have babies and careers at the same time please enact a system where the babies will be adequately taken care of. Which are, currently, nonexistant, very expensive, or inadequate. You're blaming this on the selfishness of women but really the world itself gives women very little choice.

 

but i also think that people must keep having chidldren because this the main purpose of life, if you don't have children you don't know what you're losing, it's the best thing in the world, but this is just a personal conviction of mine.

1. MUST? I "must" have a baby? No thank you. I will decide for myself.

2. Many people are fine with not having babies. Some people opt to get their womb removed or their tubes tied.

3. That's your personal conviction so you shouldn't be using the word "must".

 

I know that as a male i don't have any right to give a say in something that doesn't affect me directly, and i don't have this intention, but in any case this is my opinion.

Funny because that's what you've just did.

 

I've a stalker to take care of. I don't have time for this. Actually I'm just so tired to the point where I think I'll just take a hot cup of chocolate and wrap myself in a blanket.

 

@SilverXStudios-ugh, I'd hate to live in Georgia right now...hope you guys overturn it somehow.

Edited October 12, 2012 by ylangylang

[Brite]

About this issue i'm divided between two facts, in my opinion it's bad because it kills the fetus, but at the same time i think that the only person who has right of decision upon a woman's body is the woman herself, therefore i think that a government cannot criminalize abortion since a government doesn't own a person's body, i think that the only solution is massive awareness, raise public awareness over unwanted pregnancy, contraceptive methods, preventing the pregnancy is so much better than the necessity of abortion, but if the woman gets pregnant accidentally i think it's her right to decide whether to have the baby or not, so i'm against criminalize abortion, but i think that the abortion could be done in the early days of the pregnancy so the baby isn't yet formed, people say that at a certain stage of the formation of the organism the baby inside the womb can feel isn't? i don't know, anyway i'm against criminalization of abortion. though there's another point, i'm a white male and for my own interests i think that birth control is a disgrace, it's unnatural, i think that women should have babies, have children, many children, fertility is a major issue in the objectives of our people along history, this was the most important thing to the primitive peoples, our ancestors, this is what we are born to do, while women are taking care of their careers, living their professional lives, they have no time for children, the average birth rate of white females worlwide is 1-2 children per couple, this is not enough to maintain the managing of the population number steady, and in consequence the population is decreasing more and more each generation, i think that woman and man should both work and take care of the children, i don't understand why there was this taboo in society that women should only take care of the children and do housework, and men work out and bring the money home, this system made tho women revolt, fighting for their rights and such, but made them stop having children to live their careers, which is terrible to our people, men and women should share the work, both housewifery and professioal work, at long least i think that women must have self-determination to decide whether have babies or not, and take care for not become pregnant if she doesn't want to, but i also think that people must keep having chidldren because this the main purpose of life, if you don't have children you don't know what you're losing, it's the best thing in the world, but this is just a personal conviction of mine. I know that as a male i don't have any right to give a say in something that doesn't affect me directly, and i don't have this intention, but in any case this is my opinion.

You would be my worst nightmare. We aren't breeding pigs. Stop seeing us as such

[TCA]

You know, it'd make a lot of sense if the people who were AGAINST abortions were FOR gay marriage so that there are more people in a position to care for children to raise all the unwanted babies.

 

The fact that that isn't the case shows some lack of logical foresight.

[Whitefire]

... You don't kill a fetus. You kill a baby.

 

By the time you know, you don't tell people 'I'M HAVING A FETUS', you say you're having a baby. How come just because you don't want it that gives you the right to call it something different to help yourself emotionally detach from the child enough where you go ahead and kill it?

 

Pro-life, very, very against abortion. Here's a 30-minute movie that is on-topic ~Mature content, trigger warning: discussion of the holocaust~ [not spam, doesn't even have ads on the page, puts nothing on your computer]

 

Oh by the way, the heart starts beating at one month.

 

 

And a couple at our church has waited months/years to adopt, so don't try to pass off any 'unwanted children' stuff on me. Heck, they're adopting again.

 

 

Edit by kiffren: I just put a trigger warning on the link.

Edited October 15, 2012 by kiffren

[hazeh]

 

By the time you know, you don't tell people 'I'M HAVING A FETUS', you say you're having a baby. How come just because you don't want it that gives you the right to call it something different to help yourself emotionally detach from the child enough where you go ahead and kill it?

 

 

 

clump of cells =/= born infant.

 

What gives a fetus a right to take hostage of a woman's body if she doesn't want it?

Also, it's the other way around. Yes, you're having a FETUS. Just because you call it a baby doesn't mean it's suddenly not a fetus. You call it a baby because you want it. That's how it works.

 

Yeah and? The woman's heart has been beating for years before that fetus developed one.

 

Edit: Sorry, there are still thousands of children waiting to be adopted. It's not as easy as saying "Oh you want to adopt here's a baby".

Doesn't work that way.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Switch]

Oh by the way, the heart starts beating at one month.

Didn't (I believe) Shiny Tomato say if a fetus becomes a tumor it can still have a heartbeat? So I don't really think that means much.

 

This is just if I remember correctly though. >_>;

 

 

Pro-Choice by the way since I never post in here.

[Obscure_Trash]

... You don't kill a fetus. You kill a baby.

 

By the time you know, you don't tell people 'I'M HAVING A FETUS', you say you're having a baby. How come just because you don't want it that gives you the right to call it something different to help yourself emotionally detach from the child enough where you go ahead and kill it?

If you want to be pregnant and want to go through with the birth, you say that you are having a baby because that's what it is to you. When it comes out, it will be a baby.

 

However, it is technically an embryo and then a fetus. Feelings can't change that.

 

To you it's a baby. To others it's a parasite. To me, it is what it is. An embryo or fetus.

 

Pro-life, very, very against abortion. Here's a 30-minute movie that is on-topic http://www.180movie.com/ [not spam, doesn't even have ads on the page, puts nothing on your computer]

 

That's not that disgusting video that compares abortion to the Holocaust, is it? Because that is such a despicable propaganda video that demeans the experiences of the Holocaust and women's rights and I absolutely refuse to ever go near that ever again.

 

Oh by the way, the heart starts beating at one month.

 

Okay. And?

 

And a couple at our church has waited months/years to adopt, so don't try to pass off any 'unwanted children' stuff on me. Heck, they're adopting again.

 

Congratulations for them!

 

However, if you look at the numbers look at how many children won't be that lucky.

[KageSora]

... You don't kill a fetus. You kill a baby.

 

By the time you know, you don't tell people 'I'M HAVING A FETUS', you say you're having a baby. How come just because you don't want it that gives you the right to call it something different to help yourself emotionally detach from the child enough where you go ahead and kill it?

 

Pro-life, very, very against abortion. Here's a 30-minute movie that is on-topic [i'm removing the link due to content being triggering]

 

Oh by the way, the heart starts beating at one month.

 

 

And a couple at our church has waited months/years to adopt, so don't try to pass off any 'unwanted children' stuff on me. Heck, they're adopting again.

You say you're having a baby, because when you give birth it will no longer be a fetus. Up until the point of birth, however, it's a fetus. You WILL have a baby, currently you have a fetus.

 

But that's a good point, if I ever somehow end up pregnant and don't abort, I'll tell people I have a fetus.

 

 

Also, about the heartbeat... So? Mice have heartbeats, but people kill them all the time as pests.

 

And wonderful for them if they were able to adopt! Now, how about this time they take one of the kids who have been in the system for years who has all kinds of problems and has flat-out stated they believe that it would have been best if they were aborted? Oh, but they're not cute little babies that can be molded into the ideal people the parents want, so too bad for them. :|

Edited October 14, 2012 by KageSora

[DarkLadyNyara]

... You don't kill a fetus. You kill a baby.

 

...

 

How come just because you don't want it that gives you the right to call it something different to help yourself emotionally detach from the child enough where you go ahead and kill it?

That's not emotional detachment, that's accurate terminology. From the beginning of the fetal stage (11 weeks gestation, so most abortions actually kill an embryo) until it is born, fetus is the medically accurate term.

 

Pro-life, very, very against abortion. Here's a 30-minute movie that is on-topic http://www.180movie.com/ [not spam, doesn't even have ads on the page, puts nothing on your computer]

Let me guess- it's that utter trash that compares abortion to the Holocaust? Yeah, I'm gonna just quote an actual Holocaust survivor on the topic-

 

"This film is a perverse attempt to make a case against abortion in America through the cynical abuse of the memory of those killed in the Holocaust."

 

"It is, quite frankly, one of the most offensive and outrageous abuses of the memory of the Holocaust we have seen in years."

 

I'm also going to point out the fact that the people who died in concentration camps were, unlike fetuses and embryos, actually capable of suffering.

 

Oh by the way, the heart starts beating at one month.

And this is relevant because...? Lots of things have heartbeats. So, meaningless sentimentality aside, what relevance does that have to abortion?

 

And a couple at our church has waited months/years to adopt, so don't try to pass off any 'unwanted children' stuff on me. Heck, they're adopting again.

Two words- foster system.

 

What gives a fetus a right to take hostage of a woman's body if she doesn't want it?

 

QFT.

 

This can not be emphasized enough. A fetus, no matter how much 'like a BAYBEE' it is, does NOT have a right to use the body of another against their will. This isn't an issue of person-hood. (Unless, of course, you believe that a pregnant woman isn't a person.) This is simple bodily autonomy. Women have a moral right to abortion for the same reason that people have a moral right to not donate blood or bone marrow or anything else. Bodily autonomy is taken so seriously that we can't even harvest the organs of the dead without prior consent. The pro-life movement literally believes pregnant women should have fewer rights than corpses.

[inlaterdays]

By the time you know, you don't tell people 'I'M HAVING A FETUS', you say you're having a baby.

But most people DON'T announce it as soon as they know.

 

There's a reason that it's traditional to wait 3-4 months before announcing a pregnancy: ANYTHING can happen in the first trimester. The risk of miscarriage is very high, as is the risk of other things (I know it sounds gross, but occasionally early pregnancies do get resorbed by the body). It's really not a baby yet. It's a clump of cells that you hope will develop into a baby if you want the pregnancy.

[Infinis]

You know, it'd make a lot of sense if the people who were AGAINST abortions were FOR gay marriage so that there are more people in a position to care for children to raise all the unwanted babies.

 

The fact that that isn't the case shows some lack of logical foresight.

While I personally have no problems with a gay couple raising children, I know from personal experience that some people don't think gay couples wold make good parents, or that they might "mess up" the child or lead them down the wrong path, or it might have a bad impression on the kid(s) and make the kids gay too.

 

It would make a lot of sense also for anti-choicers to support birth control, because the first, foremost, and easiest way to decreasing abortions is making access to birth control cheaper and easier, or even downright free. The public health clinic in my hometown gives away free condoms all the time, I don't know is they do anything for female BC.

 

And a couple at our church has waited months/years to adopt, so don't try to pass off any 'unwanted children' stuff on me. Heck, they're adopting again.

 

Congrats to them!

 

However, that still doesn't kill the very valid fact that there are still thousands of children waiting to be adopted and not enough foster parents. From what I've read in this thread, it is stupidly difficult - not to mention expensive - to adopt a child. Many potential families who want to adopt also only want babies, most typically healthy white babies. I've heard of very few people who will adopt an older child or a teen. :/ And children who spend years in the system or age out of it entirely are prone to a slew of issues, including (but not limited to) emotional instabilities/depression, personality disorders, and suicidal tendencies.

 

I'm glad you support adoption - but you also need to be aware of the problems with the system.

 

EDIT:

 

Yes, it is a video that compares the Holocaust and abortion. I didn't even have to see two minutes in to recognize footage of Hitler and various Nazi rallies.

 

That video is unbelievably offensive and makes a massively inaccurate comparison. The Holocaust killed over six million people in a targeted genocide. Six million people who could think, feel, and had never done a thing to deserve any of it.

 

Abortion is not genocide. Not even close.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Infinis