Abortion

[ShinyTomato]

We regularly get girls at the clinic where I volunteer as an other options counselor, that don't realise you can't get pregnant before being married, or if you're under eighteen, or if you're on your period, or if you have sex in a pool, or if you have sex in a hot tub, or if you have sex on a Sunday.

[Snowytoshi]

For the people who are of voting age I just thought I'd mention a few state ballot laws. These laws will seriously restrict abortion and if you're pro-choice and are from one of these states I'd encourage you to make your voices known on the issue.

 

Colorado: Personhood Amendment - defines a person at any stage of development including a fertilized egg. This would outlaw some forms of birth control, criminalize miscarriages, and prevent life saving treatments. Thankfully it has yet to gather the required number of signatures.

 

Florida: Amendment 6 - Prohibits the use of public funds for abortions or for insurance covering abortions except expenditures required by federal law and when a doctor certifies the woman is in danger of death.

 

Montana: Legislative Referendum 120 - Would require a physician to notify a parent/legal guardian at least 48 hours before an abortion on a girl 16 or younger. These kind of laws have shown to be harmful to minors in cases of incest, abuse, or dissapointment. The law would also apply criminal penalties to anyone who coerced a girl to have an abortion, but not penalize those who coerced a girl into carrying a pregnancy to term.

[brairtrainer]

For the people who are of voting age I just thought I'd mention a few state ballot laws. These laws will seriously restrict abortion and if you're pro-choice and are from one of these states I'd encourage you to make your voices known on the issue.

 

Colorado: Personhood Amendment - defines a person at any stage of development including a fertilized egg. This would outlaw some forms of birth control, criminalize miscarriages, and prevent life saving treatments. Thankfully it has yet to gather the required number of signatures.

 

Florida: Amendment 6 - Prohibits the use of public funds for abortions or for insurance covering abortions except expenditures required by federal law and when a doctor certifies the woman is in danger of death.

 

Montana: Legislative Referendum 120 - Would require a physician to notify a parent/legal guardian at least 48 hours before an abortion on a girl 16 or younger. These kind of laws have shown to be harmful to minors in cases of incest, abuse, or dissapointment. The law would also apply criminal penalties to anyone who coerced a girl to have an abortion, but not penalize those who coerced a girl into carrying a pregnancy to term.

How horrible! *notes to never live in those states, will not have her rights infringed upon *

[Snowytoshi]

And for people wondering where I got that information: Fall 2012 issue of Ms. magazine, page 36.

[Xaesha]

As stated above, I had no sex-ed education. It consisted of reading the single chapter about reproduction on our own time. How many kids do you know of that are going to read that if they aren't being forced to? I made National Honor Society in school and I still didn't read it, whether it was because I didn't feel like it or maybe I didn't have the time between my other homework.

 

I wasn't a dumb person in school. I was very smart and still didn't have a clue about reproduction. My parents never had 'the talk' with me and my school obviously failed. For what it's worth, I grew up in a tiny town in central Texas. One of the girls in my class had FOUR kids when we graduated high school. All by the same father. The first one she had, she got pregnant in the SEVENTH GRADE. It's children raising children, how is that okay in anybody's point of view?

[~Kat~]

When it came to sex, I made it my business to find out all the things that go with it. I for one did not want to bring a baby into this world I was not ready for. No, I have never had an unwanted pregnancy.

 

I do believe in abortion. I do not think anyone should ruin their lives over an unwanted pregnancy.

 

But those that do know about how not to get pregnant and don't use anything and get pregnant and then have an abortion, those are the ones I frown upon.

 

Yes, I did crazy things growing up, but I also knew my limit.

[7Deadly$ins]

How horrible! *notes to never live in those states, will not have her rights infringed upon *

Colorado resident here. We're something of a swing state. We have some areas that are pretty liberal, and some areas that are very conservative. I'm not sure from which part of Colorado the Personhood Amendment is getting most of it's support from, but I know a lot of people that would be voting no to it as well. It's a good sign that it hasn't even gotten enough signatures to be placed on our ballot yet.

[Snowytoshi]

Colorado resident here. We're something of a swing state. We have some areas that are pretty liberal, and some areas that are very conservative. I'm not sure from which part of Colorado the Personhood Amendment is getting most of it's support from, but I know a lot of people that would be voting no to it as well. It's a good sign that it hasn't even gotten enough signatures to be placed on our ballot yet.

I'm not sure I know anyone who would want to criminalize miscarriages, no matter how pro-choice you are. Though maybe the woman's body doesn't want it so she shuts the whole thing down *gasp* which would mean she doesn't want a baby! It's obviously all her fault and obviously that makes her a murderer.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Snowytoshi

[Brite]

We regularly get girls at the clinic where I volunteer as an other options counselor, that don't realise you can't get pregnant before being married, or if you're under eighteen, or if you're on your period, or if you have sex in a pool, or if you have sex in a hot tub, or if you have sex on a Sunday.

On a Sunday? Haven't heard that one before. Is that another moral-like belief? I assume that because Sunday is considered an important day to a few religions, not just counting christianity or catholic

[TikindiDragon]

On a Sunday? Haven't heard that one before. Is that another moral-like belief? I assume that because Sunday is considered an important day to a few religions, not just counting christianity or catholic

*sigh* Catholic = Christian. All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholics.

 

Sorry, this really annoys me. I don't know how so many of you have got it into your heads that Catholics aren't Christian, but that's just flat our wrong.

 

You do not need to mention the two seperately. If you've said 'Christians' then you don't need to add 'Catholics'. If you've said 'Catholics' then the term for any other kind of Christian is 'Protestant'.

 

/pet peeve

[Brite]

*sigh* Catholic = Christian. All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholics.

 

Sorry, this really annoys me. I don't know how so many of you have got it into your heads that Catholics aren't Christian, but that's just flat our wrong.

 

You do not need to mention the two seperately. If you've said 'Christians' then you don't need to add 'Catholics'. If you've said 'Catholics' then the term for any other kind of Christian is 'Protestant'.

 

/pet peeve

As a pro-choice Christian, I'd rather not be called anything related to Catholics

[prairiecrow]

As a pro-choice Christian, I'd rather not be called anything related to Catholics

It's a pity, then, that you don't get to say who's a Christian and who isn't.

 

Catholics were one of the original brands of Christianity, and the "Catholics ain't REAL Christians" schtick can be traced back to good ol' Martin Luthor and the centuries-long disagreement between Catholics and Protestants that raged throughout most of modern European history. Protestantism arose out of Catholicism, as a response to it, and to say "Catholics aren't Christian" is like saying "My father/mother isn't part of our family line".

 

I appreciate that you don't like the official Catholic stance on abortion, but that doesn't entitle you to say they're not something that they very clearly are. And what about the pro-choice Catholics? They ARE out there, you know.

Edited September 24, 2012 by prairiecrow

[TCA]

Catholics were one of the original brands of Christianity

They WERE the number one original brand of Christianity. Before Catholicism, there were Jews. Soon afterwards, branches started splitting off, but Catholics were the originals.

 

Anyone who says "Catholics aren't Christian" has a strange definition of Christian, seeing as they are the basis for every other branch of Christianity. Just 'cause I'm not one of them doesn't mean I try to call them something they aren't.

[Fuzzbucket]

They WERE the number one original brand of Christianity. Before Catholicism, there were Jews. Soon afterwards, branches started splitting off, but Catholics were the originals.

 

Anyone who says "Catholics aren't Christian" has a strange definition of Christian, seeing as they are the basis for every other branch of Christianity. Just 'cause I'm not one of them doesn't mean I try to call them something they aren't.

ER - no not quite. (but it is certainly true that all Catholics are Christians, whether GhostChilli likes it or not !)

 

It was ONE of the earliest branches of Christianity, but it isn't quite true to say the earliest. the post-Apostolic church developed quite slowly, and was not what anyone today could call catholic as such. Not to mention Pauline Christianity. There were also the Copts and the Greek Orthodox churches, too. The term Christian does appear in the New Testament, and is in no way related to Catholicism - it WAY predates the council of Nicaea. Earliest Christianity was pretty much a Jewish eschatological faith and Jewish CHRISTIANS were among Jesus' first followers.

 

Before the first council of Nicaea (325 AD, I think...) which sorted out the little matter of the trinity, there were all sorts of CHRISTIAN factions - but that is the point at which today's Catholic Church reckons their side of Christianity started up !

 

After that the Roman Empire actually promoted Christianity - but that's not to say it made it ROMAN Catholic yet

 

Sorry - one's father was an Anglican vicar....

[TCA]

Okay, cool, that's good to know Thanks, sorry for being inaccurate.

Edited September 24, 2012 by TheCompleteAnimorph

[babybluefire]

I appreciate that you don't like the official Catholic stance on abortion, but that doesn't entitle you to say they're not something that they very clearly are. And what about the pro-choice Catholics? They ARE out there, you know.

I am a pro choice catholic, not because I think abortion is a quick easy form of birth control. But because there are situations where it is a medical nessisity to save the mothers life. If the mother won't survive to the point of viability then why basically kill her as well. Especially when its very possible that she already has several children that need her.

 

 

If abortion becomes illegal then more women will die that might be saved. I cant live with that on my conscious to condemn it. I wont like or feel good about a healthy women who chooses abortion. But her life, her privacy, her choice not mine. If her choice is taken away so will the choice to save a women s life in extreme circumstances.

[KageSora]

I'm thinking of doing an assignment for my English class analyzing abortion websites.

 

I'm particularly interested in sites that spin facts (or outright invent them), since we're looking at how the arguments for whatever the site promotes is handled, and all.

 

It's easy enough to find lying pro-life websites (found one or two using the "the mother's life can never be in danger from the pregnancy, therefore there's never a valid reason for abortion" argument claimed as fact).

 

I don't have as much experience with pro-choice websites that are blatantly lying.

 

And, I know there's probably not any 100% neutral sites, but anybody have a suggestion for a more neutral site?

[Fuzzbucket]

I'm thinking of doing an assignment for my English class analyzing abortion websites.

 

I'm particularly interested in sites that spin facts (or outright invent them), since we're looking at how the arguments for whatever the site promotes is handled, and all.

 

It's easy enough to find lying pro-life websites (found one or two using the "the mother's life can never be in danger from the pregnancy, therefore there's never a valid reason for abortion" argument claimed as fact).

 

I don't have as much experience with pro-choice websites that are blatantly lying.

 

And, I know there's probably not any 100% neutral sites, but anybody have a suggestion for a more neutral site?

http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/

 

I think that site is excellent. I used it a lot when I was working in the health service. Advice on whichever way you go, as well as contraception, sterilisation, STIs and everything - and all factually correct as far as I know (ad as I was told by doctors I used to work with.)

 

BRILLIANT idea for a project - do post when you can tell us how it was received

[xhunter]

http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/

i'm jealous of the UK now. why can't america be like them when it comes to sterilization? i can't even find someone that would do that for me and they don't have to have nothing more than counselling to be curtain. and they are a lot cheaper than america too where your paying a pretty penny just to get a temp. sterilization inserted. *sign*

[KageSora]

http://www.mariestopes.org.uk/

 

I think that site is excellent. I used it a lot when I was working in the health service. Advice on whichever way you go, as well as contraception, sterilisation, STIs and everything - and all factually correct as far as I know (ad as I was told by doctors I used to work with.)

 

BRILLIANT idea for a project - do post when you can tell us how it was received

Thanks for the link! I'll be sure to let you know!

[Slaskia]

Two articles for ya:

 

Rapist wants visitation rights

 

With most states not automatically striping rapists of parental rights...this is what the pro-birth movement will have to deal with more and more if they succeed in making abortion illegal.

 

California gov signs bill allowing non-doctors to perform abortions

 

I get the thinking on the WHY he did this, but the first thing that came to mind when I saw this was: great, more women will have abortion complications due to having them done by non-doctors, which will give the pro-birthers more fuel to ban abortion completely....

[hazeh]

I don't really see that as a bad thing, especially if they're allowing nurses. Both of my parents are RNs and certainly would be just as qualified to do a procedure like that as a doctor. Just because someone's a nurse doesn't make them any less of a medical professional than someone with an MD.

[Obscure_Trash]

I have to agree; this sounds wonderful!

 

Whereas typically only licensed doctors can perform the delicate procedure, the bill states that due to a shortage of doctors, now a number of certified nurses, midwives, and physician assistants are also qualified.

 

Sen. Christine Kehoe (D-San Diego), who introduced the bill, said its purpose is to expand access to abortion for women, particularly those in rural areas where abortionists are apparently harder to find.

 

I think the article title is misleading, though. o_O

[Kestra15]

I don't really see that as a bad thing, especially if they're allowing nurses. Both of my parents are RNs and certainly would be just as qualified to do a procedure like that as a doctor. Just because someone's a nurse doesn't make them any less of a medical professional than someone with an MD.

Especially given that nurses are sometimes more hands-on than their respective doctors :~P

[xhunter]

I don't really see that as a bad thing, especially if they're allowing nurses. Both of my parents are RNs and certainly would be just as qualified to do a procedure like that as a doctor. Just because someone's a nurse doesn't make them any less of a medical professional than someone with an MD.

because once something goes wrong the so called pro-life people can shout to women that need abortions. "ya! have you heard of ____ case? this is a risk that can happen and you know they aren't even using real doctors!". and of course some nurses can't pull it off causing some complications which looks real good on anti abortion case to scare the out of woman seeking abortion. i'm shore that is what they are pushing for. yes some nurses can pull threw on it though its the ones that can't that will better anti abortion campaigns. or this is just my personal thought on them.

 

edit: *women

Edited September 26, 2012 by xhunter