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Opinion - yes, if it has a real reasons, like pregnacy danger, high risks of severe DNA disease. We have a nice sample on "DNA Diseases" class then teacher made a situation then you have to say "Expertice said what your boy-baby will be 100% healthy - but, if it'll be a girl, there will be a chance your grandson can be DNA sick".

 

Too long text to say and mai iingleesh eesn't tha-a-at gud[sorry for possible eye-torture]. And, don't have much to say about unwanteds or early pregnacy.

Why are "I don't want a child/I don't want a child yet" or "I cannot afford a child" or "I cannot afford pregnancy" not "real" reasons?

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Oh god, these comments are disgusting. Of course people gave birth that early then, the mortality rate was too high. What would they be advocating next, marrying a 9 year old? Gross.

Well, yeah, some probably would. Because some of those nine year olds are just so hawt, you know. *shudder*

 

I mean, I could understand saying 14 or 15, because yes, there were girls having children at that age regularly. IIRC, though, life expectancy was (or could be) up to the mid-50s, though life span is something different and could be a lot longer, depending on the individual. I doubt there were quite as many ten or twelve year olds giving birth as some would like to believe, and even if there were, that was millennia ago. I'm skeeved out, to say the least, that there are people who would seriously argue that some unfortunate child should have to give birth because it happened back then. There was a really, really high maternal and infant mortality rate, too. Should we go back to that as well? (I think the US has a high enough infant mortality rate without adding a few more dead girls and babies.)

 

 

 

Unrelated to that, some bad news:

Under pressure from Gov. Bob McDonnell ® and Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, the Virginia Board of Health voted on Friday to pass a set of building regulations that could force many abortion clinics in the state to shut down.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/14/v..._n_1884897.html

 

 

*sigh* What was that about government size and OMG DICTATORSHIPS! again?

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I mean, I could understand saying 14 or 15, because yes, there were girls having children at that age regularly. IIRC, though, life expectancy was (or could be) up to the mid-50s, though life span is something different and could be a lot longer, depending on the individual. I doubt there were quite as many ten or twelve year olds giving birth as some would like to believe, and even if there were, that was millennia ago. I'm skeeved out, to say the least, that there are people who would seriously argue that some unfortunate child should have to give birth because it happened back then. There was a really, really high maternal and infant mortality rate, too. Should we go back to that as well? (I think the US has a high enough infant mortality rate without adding a few more dead girls and babies.)

 

Unrelated to that, some bad news:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/14/v..._n_1884897.html

 

*sigh* What was that about government size and OMG DICTATORSHIPS! again?

Mhmm. I'm reading a book called "Half the Sky" and...stuff that happens when a girl's pelvis is too small for a baby to pass through-and when she does not get quick hospital treatment-is deeply traumatic and gross. Her body is just not yet ready for a baby. Because of the relatively large head size and small hips that humans have, things can get ugly pretty fast. Hell, there're plenty of grown women who need C sections to safely have a baby.

 

And "building regulations" my foot. They are targeting these clinics specifically and they know it.

Edited by ylangylang

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Hm~ Thanks for stating thoose reasons =) First two gives me a "You've better thought about that before getting pregnant" as first reaction before agreeing - thinking about careless pairs rather than of something serious, and the second, sadly, clear "yes" for making abortion as one of the solutions.

 

Was there a discussed situation then one person in the pair wanted a child and other did not(regardless who will be/is already pregnant) on prevous pages?

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Hm~ Thanks for stating thoose reasons =) First two gives me a "You've better thought about that before getting pregnant" as first reaction before agreeing - thinking about careless pairs rather than of something serious, and the second, sadly, clear "yes" for making abortion as one of the solutions.

 

Was there a discussed situation then one person in the pair wanted a child and other did not(regardless who will be/is already pregnant) on prevous pages?

Plenty of people do think of that before they get pregnant. Birth control failure happens.

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You know, knowledge of how not to get pregnant goes along way. In this day and time, there is so much literature about it, as well as in schools.

 

Yes, I am well aware that birth control fails. BUT, if someone not married, or can not support themselves really cares about not getting pregnant, they would take extra precautions not to get pregnant or stop getting into the moment, and rethinking the situation about SEX. Stop living for the moment and think about what you are doing.

 

I get sick of listening to all the excuses that people make!!!

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That's nice, ~Kat~. Please, do tell what you expect people do to when they get abstinence only education--courtesy of (often Christian) parents who refuse to allow children to learn about sex because they figure it'll just make them more likely to have sex/believe using birth control is a sin.

 

 

I don't think you'll find a single person here who disagrees with you on the idea of proper education being key to reducing the number of abortions. The problem is not everybody has access to a proper education on the matter.

 

 

This has been told to you at least once before, probably more. You just seem to refuse to listen to it.

Edited by KageSora

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Oh yes, please tell us more about how people should be forced to have kids, for about 9 months and 18 years, give and take a few, for the great "sin" of having sex, which can be a great barrier to said woman's socioeconomic goals that she may have had.

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Mhmm. I'm reading a book called "Half the Sky" and...stuff that happens when a girl's pelvis is too small for a baby to pass through-and when she does not get quick hospital treatment-is deeply traumatic and gross. Her body is just not yet ready for a baby. Because of the relatively large head size and small hips that humans have, things can get ugly pretty fast. Hell, there're plenty of grown women who need C sections to safely have a baby.

 

And "building regulations" my foot. They are targeting these clinics specifically and they know it.

Sounds interesting! Oh, yeah, it can be really nasty. Exactly! There are plenty of adults who have serious trouble giving birth, so I don't get how anyone could brush off the actual physiological damage it can do.

 

Absolutely. I think they believe that doing it this way is somehow legally unassailable, or at least less blatant than an actual abortion ban. It has nothing to do with building codes or safety and everything to do with getting what they want in whatever way it takes.

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That's nice, ~Kat~. Please, do tell what you expect people do to when they get abstinence only education--courtesy of (often Christian) parents who refuse to allow children to learn about sex because they figure it'll just make them more likely to have sex/believe using birth control is a sin.

 

 

I don't think you'll find a single person here who disagrees with you on the idea of proper education being key to reducing the number of abortions. The problem is not everybody has access to a proper education on the matter.

 

 

This has been told to you at least once before, probably more. You just seem to refuse to listen to it.

Ok, I will only talk about people in the USA. I can not help what others here do not know about sex ... but they should know sex, creates children. Now if they are still willing to have sex, and not be afraid of what their parents and others think, fine. I can not save them, but I sure am tired of where my tax money goes.

 

 

ylangylang, I can not help you on that statement you made. Yes, I know other countries are not as fortunate as the people in the USA.

 

Still the fact is, when you re told not to have sex, or other things and you do it anyway, consequences happen.

 

It seems like most of you, always come up with what if. What is different about me? Why did my booty get worn out when I did something wrong? Why did I mind my parents? It seems like most of you have a totally different concept of the world than I do, lol.

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@ ~Kat~

 

You can't narrow it down to the US and still have it be true. Heck, people living just a city away from me have probably never had the sort of "education" you think they do have/should have. And education isn't like the miracle that can solve the problem of underage/inappropriate pregnancy. Yeah, education can help the problem, but there are people at my school having sex on a regular basis and we all get the same, annual, brief sex-ed class.

 

Maybe I don't make a lot of sense but it's late and I usually try not to engage in arguments ever, especially not at nearly midnight (late here), but I was just skimming through here and I had to say something. Sorry.

 

Edit: and you should know that I get to be inside the mind of some of the people you might be talking about: teenagers. Not minding the consequences. Well, we aren't perfect. I surely hope I never find myself in the position to have an abortion but for people my age or at least a little older, all they're thinking when they are about to have sex is: oh, it won't happen to me. I won't get pregnant this time. We get the education but it's not some miracle that can just stop us from ever needing to get an abortion.

 

And it's not teenagers either. Everyone without protection has that chance they might get pregnant or get someone pregnant. But the world isn't going to just stay abstinent, you know? And I will always support the right to an abortion, because people should have a chance to undo at least some mistakes.

 

Lol wow I don't make sense right now. /brain fail

Edited by glamoursea2

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@~Kat~

 

Er, sorry, should have been clear--I was referring to people in the USA.

 

I've seen quite a few horror stories about sex "education" that happen here in the USA. People in the USA are getting terrible education: abstinence only, incorrect information, outright lies to deter them from having sex...

 

Kids who live in the USA aren't getting good sex ed in schools and parents aren't giving proper sex talks.

 

This naturally varies depending on where you live/how your parents treat the idea. I was fortunate enough to have a decent-ish sex ed--at least I learned that sex makes babies and can give you illnesses if you don't get protection.

 

I didn't, however, learn much about said protection. Just like "Condoms exist, use them. Oh, and the pill". Most of what I learned was self-taught through the internet.

 

And many people do get good, comprehensive sex ed. But not everybody in the USA does GET good sex ed.

 

Maybe, if they knew WHY they shouldn't be having sex, they'd reconsider the idea. I didn't go out having sex... Well, alright, mostly because of being asexual and all, but I knew that babies and various illnesses could result from unprotected sex and I'd rather not risk it. So, even if I was a sexual person, I'd have known enough to avoid it until I could handle it.

 

Now, if people know all that and still make bad choices, that's on them, most certainly. That said, I don't think that means they should be denied an abortion--after all, if they're making such bad choices, can they really be trusted with a child? How do we know they won't do something that'll endanger the fetus or put it at high risk for birth defects because of more bad choices?

Edited by KageSora

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You know, knowledge of how not to get pregnant goes along way. In this day and time, there is so much literature about it, as well as in schools.

 

Yes, I am well aware that birth control fails. BUT, if someone not married, or can not support themselves really cares about not getting pregnant, they would take extra precautions not to get pregnant or stop getting into the moment, and rethinking the situation about SEX. Stop living for the moment and think about what you are doing.

 

I get sick of listening to all the excuses that people make!!!

Yeah, thank goodness that comprehensive sex ed and birth control availability are so completely supported and that no one would ever think about shutting down clinics where these things are available or say that insurance shouldn't cover contraceptives.

 

It's not that your idea is bad; I definitely support preventative measures. But we can't have it all ways. There's a concerted effort to not teach kids about sex and their options, and to limit access to birth control and shut down clinics, or to shame women who try to avail themselves of preventative measures. So I don't think that it's really fair that women are berated for not using something that some folks are working so hard to make sure they can't get.

 

The problem is that a lot of this is only partially about being pro-life, and the rest is about controlling women, so all of those other options aren't as simple as they sometimes sound.

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I don't get good sex education. I live in a nice neighborhood, have nice schools, and receive a fairly good education otherwise. But we get one week to learn about what a period is and the basic anatomy and how a baby grows. Oh yeah, and use condoms and don't get AIDS and take a pill.

 

Like, that's it. That's what I learn. That's what I know.

 

@ KageSora

 

When you said "I was referring to people in the USA" were you talking to me or Kat? xd.png Because I thought you directed that at me and I had made some sort of mistake but then you said something much like what I did (or what I thought I was saying lol).

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When you said "I was referring to people in the USA" were you talking to me or Kat? xd.png Because I thought you directed that at me and I had made some sort of mistake but then you said something much like what I did (or what I thought I was saying lol).

Ahaha, sorry, I meant ~Kat~--I started my post before you posted. Oops!

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Kat-

from what I've read of the U.S's maternal leave system and childcare, you aren't fortunate compared to a great many other countries. Maternal leave and childcare do have a significant effect on women's career, do they not, the same way that having a baby can tax you enough to make it hard for you to receive your education.

 

Yeah actions have consequences. However if you are forcing people to receive punishment which in my eyes should not beseen as punishment and is overpunishing people, when those can be avoided, then you're being callous, imo.

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Ahaha, sorry, I meant ~Kat~--I started my post before you posted. Oops!

Haha okay, just making sure because I was a leetle confused rolleyes.gif

 

Also, adding on to the whole USA thing, I have a very limited perspective of the rest of the world but I can tell you, just because the USA as a whole is viewed as wealthy and fortunate and advanced, doesn't mean that all areas of our education are flawless (a fairly well known fact actually), especially not sex-ed.

 

For example, when KageSora said "most of what I learned was self-taught through the internet" (I'm just quoting you all over xd.png) I actually thought to myself: what else is there to learn? Besides what they teach us? Which is nearly nothing. They just preach about abstinence and the kids roll their eyes and move on to the next topic of conversation.

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For example, when KageSora said "most of what I learned was self-taught through the internet" (I'm just quoting you all over xd.png) I actually thought to myself: what else is there to learn? Besides what they teach us? Which is nearly nothing. They just preach about abstinence and the kids roll their eyes and move on to the next topic of conversation.

In my area, we have a somewhat decent sex-ed program. It doesn't just preach abstinence. If anything, it preaches contraception and making wise decisions. The real downfall here is the the attitude (lack of caring) for the class.

 

It's a health credit, semester-long class that nobody takes seriously and therefore nobody pays attention. :/ I had the option of taking it over the summer to free up my schedule, and it was about 2 weeks long. Some kids take the abbreviated version of the health class to get their credit, which is three days on a computer.

 

It goes to show even my school system has that blasé attitude. :/

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Exactly, even if kids have the opportunity to really educate themselves they still want to get it over with because to us it just has the shallower meaning of "school ugh" not "this is important for your life!"

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Exactly, even if kids have the opportunity to really educate themselves they still want to get it over with because to us it just has the shallower meaning of "school ugh" not "this is important for your life!"

Possibly because we ourselves are uncomfortable and confused with our sexuality at the time-we aren't comfortable discussing it among ourselves, let alone listening to a 3 week course about it. It doesn't help if your family sees sex as taboo and subdue discussion, which I find most parents do, possibly because they are uncomfortable dealing with the fact that their little darling is growing up and wanting to have sex. That's my personal take on things, however.

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Possibly because we ourselves are uncomfortable and confused with our sexuality at the time-we aren't comfortable discussing it among ourselves, let alone listening to a 3 week course about it. It doesn't help if your family sees sex as taboo and subdue discussion, which I find most parents do, possibly because they are uncomfortable dealing with the fact that their little darling is growing up and wanting to have sex. That's my personal take on things, however.

I don't know how my parents feel about it (they don't encourage it, oh God no) but they don't really avoid it all together. Actually they kind of suck at shielding my siblings and I from it. My sister is four years younger than me and has seen the same sex scenes in movies as I have at a much younger age so...plus she received "the talk" when she was eight because my brother had just recently gotten it and decided to educate his innocent little sister as well dry.gif My mom is pretty okay talking about it but my dad...he doesn't like it so much xd.png

 

Anyway, they haven't given us much more of an education than my school does. This is what it is, this is how to stop it, this is what it causes. All in the course of an hour or so.

 

 

On the topic of parents, I don't know where mine stand on abortion. I'm fairly sure my mother is against it. She was raised Christian, and now she doesn't really have much of a religion but she probably still clings to that belief that abortion is wrong. The way she put it when I first asked her what it was, she made it sound like a horrible thing. Killing an unborn baby! Oh no!

 

But as I got older I realized (part of it from reading through this thread) I support abortion. A woman should be able to take control of her body...if she makes a bad decision and gets pregnant but doesn't want it, she should not have to be punished by being forced to carry that child and maybe even care for it and not give it up for adoption or something. That would be a punishment for said woman, because she was never ready in the first place, right?

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Just to add my own thoughts:

 

In many cities and states, kids don't GET good sex education. They don't hear "This is birth control/a condom. This is how to use it. We would prefer you wait to have sex, but if you choose not to, here is how to keep yourself safe." They hear "Don't have sex before you get married or you will get an STD/pregnant, die, and go to hell." They don't get good information about how human bodies work, as evidenced by certain lawmakers recently. They are taught ridiculous, inaccurate things, things which may not be corrected until they are adults. (Hey, did you know that actually, women CAN get pregnant the first time they have sex, or that women DON'T urinate from their vaginas, or that yes, a virgin can get pregnant if a guy ejaculates near enough to her vagina/vulva for semen to get inside? Some people don't.)

 

You absolutely cannot blame this entirely on the teenagers. It isn't their fault that they very often are poorly educated on things as simple as what is true/false about how/when a girl can become pregnant and how a baby is formed. When all you get is "This is bad. Don't do it.", of course the result will be people doing exactly that thing. The conversation needs to be:

" Here are the facts about how male and female human bodies work. X, Y, and Z things are true. A, B, and C things are not. D thing is almost correct but not quite. Here is the actual fact.

 

" We would like it if you waited to have sex. Here are some good reasons why you should wait/do not have to have sex to be "cool" or "adult". That said, if you do decide to become sexually active, here are ways to protect yourself, potential outcomes of not protecting yourself/failure of that protection to work, and ways to handle them. Now, it is your choice to take this information and do what you want with it."

 

"Don't do it" is not enough. There need to be concrete reasons why not. And for the love of little green apples, we need more conversations about things like consent and respect , and how the way we address rape and sexual assault should be "Don't rape" and not "Don't get raped". (I could rant on this for a good while, but it's really only tangentially related, so I won't.)

 

In this country, there is currently a concerted effort to oppose and actively reduce women's ability to access birth control. People oppose insurance company-provided BC. Pharmacists can refuse to fill prescriptions. A presidential candidate has said that he thinks states should be able to outlaw it. Women's health clinics are being shut down/defunded/protested, and their ability to provide BC and other contraception impeded. It is getting really, really difficult for some women

to access BC of any kind, which is in no way their fault. The women affected by this kind of legislation are not the bad people here.

 

 

ETA a good link: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-Teen-Sex-Ed.html

 

@ylangylang: YES! Exactly. It can be bad enough trying to figure things out without the added awkwardness of videos and diagrams and condoms being put on fruits/vegetables/wooden models.

Edited by LascielsShadow

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Even as a mother of two and a third on the way, I am very pro-choice. Let me explain it to you as my own personal experience.

 

I became sexually active at the age of 17. As most people know, that isn't a young age nowadays. However, even at that age I didn't know ANYTHING about the risks of pregnancy. In my Health class, our teacher assigned us to read the chapter about reproduction and then we SKIPPED to the next chapter. He didn't go over it with us, or quiz us or anything. Period.

 

Skip to the real world. I had just turned 18 and graduated from high school. Within three months I found out I was pregnant. Whoa. I was mentally immature, had a job that didn't pay squat, still lived with my parents, and had NO CLUE what I was going to do. I didn't know jack about children! I couldn't support myself much less another human being and my family would have honestly disowned me if I was to go to them and tell them I was pregnant. I was frantic and felt like my life was ending. I didn't fully realize the consequences that came with unprotected sex, seriously.

 

I panicked and when I told the guy I had been sleeping with, he immediately told me he would pay for the abortion. I didn't even think about saying no. At the time my life felt so dismal from my immaturity that an abortion seemed like my only way out. I took him up on his offer. Several weeks later my life returned to 'normal'. No one in my family had a clue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Now, does my story make sense? No, to a mature and sane person it probably doesn't. To most people there is always a way to make things work. And that's true! But look at it this way... What had happened if I had kept the baby? I've thought about it many times and I've gone back and forth between regret and acceptance hundreds of times. Would I have done it if I had a second chance? A few years ago I would have told you that NO, I never would have done it again and I never should have done it in the first place. But now I realize that it really was the right thing to do.

 

Okay, so what would have happened? I would have told my parents and they would have kicked me out. No ifs, ands or buts about it. I would have had nowhere to go. I didn't even know anyone well enough to ask to stay with them. I couldn't afford a place on my own, hell, I could barely pay my car payment, much less rent. Not to mention that I was no way in hell responsible enough to keep the utilities and rent current. I would have ended up on the streets, probably living in my car. I didn't know of any resources for pregnancy care, not to mention zero health insurance. The baby would have lived in my car! My CAR! And to those that think I'm exaggerating, I'm definitely not. I knew nothing about having children or finding any kind of resources to help myself. The baby would have literally been neglected out of sheer blind ignorance. That is no life for a child and for those that think that 'love will see anything through', please please open your eyes. Love wouldn't have killed that child. My lack of education whatsoever would have, and not on purpose.

 

Whether for medical purposes or personal choice, it's our body and it isn't anyone's right but our own to make those decisions. Would you rather let children be born to a mother who either won't care for them or has no way to? Some women would rather commit suicide than have a child. While adoption is a viable solution it just isn't practical for EVERY baby out there. As stated in the OP, hundred of thousands of children never leave foster homes and are mentally unstable. Most of them have low self esteem and some of them commit suicide. It's the mentality of nobody else loves them so why should they love themselves? It's a very sad situation.

 

I'm done for now and I'm sorry if my posting sounds a bit scattered. I blame my pregnancy brain. Feel free to ask any questions you'd like. I really want to show people the other side of the coin for people who have chosen the 'bad path'. We are not evil, heartless women. In some cases it is best for all parties involved, even the child. I'm aware that sound absolutely awful but I'd rather not have a child than have one that is totally screwed of for the rest of his/her life because of ME. I refuse to do that to another human being.

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Stop living for the moment and think about what you are doing.

 

I get sick of listening to all the excuses that people make!!!

Because you never did anything crazy-stupid as a teenager?

 

Everyone throws caution to the wind at some point - sometimes over little things, sometimes over big things. Everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes they're little ones with no real consequence. Sometimes they're life-changing. Luck of the draw, to be honest.

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Because you never did anything crazy-stupid as a teenager?

 

Everyone throws caution to the wind at some point - sometimes over little things, sometimes over big things. Everyone makes mistakes, and sometimes they're little ones with no real consequence. Sometimes they're life-changing. Luck of the draw, to be honest.

I'm also curious.

 

Granted, I didn't drink, smoke or have sex as a teenager (the latter because I wasn't considered particularly attractive, more than anything else, not because I thought it would be unwise, and partly because of not drinking/smoking I wasn't in situations where that would happen otherwise), but that doesn't mean those are the only things you can make mistakes about as a teenager.

 

I think that hardly any teenager goes to grow up without having pushed some unreasonable buttons along the way, be they small or large. Mine was ditching music school lessons to the point where my parents were afraid that I would transfer that to regular school as well, although I *did* finish my 7-year musical education and my school attendance was influenced only by health issues.

A lot of people I knew at the time were ditching classes. Some were having sex at a young age. And a very strictly brought-up classmate "rebelled" by taking a walk after school instead of immediately going home even though she knew that her mother would call home to check if she's back and if she wasn't, she'd get so upset that she'd need sedatives.

Edited by lightbird

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