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Phobias: thats what drugs are for xd.png to keep you knocked out till the whole painful process is over so you dont remember a moment of it xd.png

 

What about a phobia of pregnancy - not of childbirth. Keeping women drugged for nine months doesn't sound healthy - physically or psychologically.

 

Sadly, adoption is not the perfect solution for children. Many, many, many do not get adopted. They get stuck in a system where many of them wish they had been aborted (source: our resident social care worker, who has had too many children tell her that) and many commit suicide (and many who attempt suicide multiple times if they don't succeed the first time). When you have a good life, it's easy to say that every clump of cells should have a chance for life, but sadly, not everyone gets a good life. 3=

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they gave up the right to live when they killed innocent people

Life is precious, you know. wink.gif

 

Okay, I'll stop with the snark. But anyways, forcing a woman to basically just become an incubator-which part do you not understand about that? Do you not get that forcing a woman to have a baby is never a good solution?

Edited by ylangylang

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as i said im just stating what i believe not wanting to get into a huge debate

 

to me Abortion is wrong because life is precious, Granted people who take life should be killed but people who unknowingly commit murder and those who cant do anything about it should not be condemned. if your going to argue for the sake of arguing then your not going to get anything accomplished i can see that all you people want to do is kill unborn kids who are helpless and alone so go ahead. you may as well put a bullet to the kid right after he takes his first breath.

We are just arguing for the sale of arguing? Um no we're stating our opinions. If you post in a discussion thread your post will be discussed.

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Yet you support the death penalty. Those people were once fetuses too! OH WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE POOR FETUSES!

 

No, we're not arguing for the sake of argument. We're arguing because the apparently lack of concern you and other people like you have for women, their rights over their bodies, and their will is quite frankly frightening.

i love women i love everything about them. i dont understand some of them but i thought women were suppose to be nurturing and caring for children. my mother never once said that she wished i was never born. and i know PLEANTY of mothers that are underaged that absolutely love their children. so dont tell me i have no care for womens rights. i just believe that they shouldnt be the one to decide weather a child being either embryo kid in the oven or kid running around should be killed. a child is a child and has every right to live as the mother or the doctors in the room. period

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i love women i love everything about them. i dont understand some of them but i thought women were suppose to be nurturing and caring for children. my mother never once said that she wished i was never born. and i know PLEANTY of mothers that are underaged that absolutely love their children. so dont tell me i have no care for womens rights. i just believe that they shouldnt be the one to decide weather a child being either embryo kid in the oven or kid running around should be killed. a child is a child and has every right to live as the mother or the doctors in the room. period

Oh look it's the old "I have (insert minority here) friends I don't discriminate" argument.

 

Whether you think of it as such or not, you ARE being VERY discriminatory here. You are for getting rid of women's rights to their body, which directly influences oppression against women. And a zygote is never the same thing as a baby. There's a reason why we have different medical terms such as zygote, fetus, baby, and so on.

 

Not all women like having babies. Stop judging us based on stereotypes. Even if we love children and whatnot, there can be situations where it's just not possible to have a baby and continue on with her life.

 

I get it that you're opposed to abortion because you have a specific religion. There are plenty of people everywhere who do not follow that religion who want an abortion. Why are you restricting their access to abortion as well?

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Abortion is wrong in my opinion cuz who are you to decide if a child lives or dies. if you dont want the baby there are pleanty of people who would love to have it. there are many couples that cant have children of their own who would love to have a new baby girl or boy so my OPINION is that if your pregnant have the baby and if you dont want it give it to someone else.

That's all well and good, provided you can afford the adoption process and ensure that the child is raised by a loving family--not to mention that the mother survives the pregnancy without suffering emotional/mental/physical trauma.

 

The adoption system is a nice ideal, but it doesn't work anywhere near as well as it needs to. It really needs a lot of fixing. So many unwanted kids end up in the system, and never get their loving family. It's terrible.

 

It's not as simple as simply handing the baby over to another family.

 

I'm real, lucky, I was a success story. But far, far too many don't end up like me, and hate their lives--they try or succeed in ending them, they wish they had been aborted... That's cruelty, forcing them into that life.

 

And, er... Chucking more kids into the system in the hopes that it'll get more money isn't... That's like going to a house that's on fire, and lighting the neighbor's house on fire in the hopes that more fires will make the fire department arrive faster.

 

What needs to happen is a massive reform. There's more problems that just "lack of funding".

 

Aside from that, not all mothers can afford to go through with the pregnancy. Some will have their physical health compromised--possibly even die. Other times it will cause severe emotional/mental distress--how does it help the child if the mother takes her life? Then two lives were lost where otherwise one simply never would have begun.

 

rape: yes i know its wrong and people do it anyways and i think the censorkip.gif***s should be killed

...So, why is it acceptable to kill rapists but not a fetus, if "life is precious"? What gives YOU the right to decide that a rapist can't change their ways and repent, and that their life is not precious?

 

Also, uh... So, for phobias... You'd stick the mother on drugs for a solid 9 months? It's not the childbirth that may be the phobia--a sever phobia of pregnancy itself can drive a woman to suicide.

 

 

Also, debate is good--this is not arguing for the sake of arguing, this is attempt at debate for the sake of educating people and attempting to spread ideas that can help improve the quality of life people enjoy.

 

And you seem to be under the delusion that pro-choice is anti-life.

 

No. I'm pro-life and pro-choice. But you cannot be pro-life if all you care about is the fetus--true pro-life people care for the mother in the same way, and respect and care for her well being and are concerned for her quality of life. To discard her as nothing more than an incubator is not pro-life.

 

Nobody is really pro-abortion for the most part (I've certainly never met a pro-life person who was all "YEAH DEAD FETUSES ABORT THEM BABIES WHOOOO ABORTION ROCKS!"--if you have, I promise they're to pro-choice people as the Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity: the highly questionable outliers who make the normal ones look bad by extension). Abortion is a horrible thing, and I wish that we lived in a world where the only times it happened were for medical reasons such as to save the mother's life or an unviable fetus. But, the sad fact is that there are so many other reasons people feel that an abortion is the best choice they have, and if that's how they truly feel (and, sadly, in this world, it may very well be the best choice)... They'll get one no matter what, they'll do it illegally anyway.

 

I'm pro-choice because I want them to be able to go to safe, clean places to have a properly trained professional handle the procedure, and for them to be able to receive any care they require before and after the process, including counseling and therapy if need be.

 

 

i love women i love everything about them. i dont understand some of them but i thought women were suppose to be nurturing and caring for children. my mother never once said that she wished i was never born. and i know PLEANTY of mothers that are underaged that absolutely love their children. so dont tell me i have no care for womens rights. i just believe that they shouldnt be the one to decide weather a child being either embryo kid in the oven or kid running around should be killed. a child is a child and has every right to live as the mother or the doctors in the room. period

Ah, you see, you're under the assumption that this stereotype is completely accurate for all women.

 

Many women hate children with the burning passion of a billion suns. Plenty of women are indifferent to them.

 

I'm female. If you give me a child to raise it, I'll screw it up because, honestly, I can't connect to a child in that way. I find young children to be annoyances and to make me rather uncomfortable, not to mention I just know I'd be a terrible parent.

 

So, uh, I'm not "nurturing and caring for children", even though I'm a woman. I'll do my best if I have to take care of them in short spurts (I like to think I do okay with the kids who come into my store), but there is no way I could keep that up for the amount of time it would take to raise a child.

 

 

And, sadly, plenty of women do actually tell their child they wish they had aborted them. It's... A very sad fact.

 

 

So, if the mother has a right to live, does she have the right to live a happy life? Because being forced to give birth can and does ruin lives.

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its apparent that all of you have made up your mind for killing innocent babies. therefore anything i say will only seem like idiotic babble to you.

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i love women i love everything about them. i dont understand some of them but i thought women were suppose to be nurturing and caring for children. my mother never once said that she wished i was never born. and i know PLEANTY of mothers that are underaged that absolutely love their children. so dont tell me i have no care for womens rights. i just believe that they shouldnt be the one to decide weather a child being either embryo kid in the oven or kid running around should be killed. a child is a child and has every right to live as the mother or the doctors in the room. period

There are also plenty of women who never want to have children. I know someone who never ever wants to have children and is quote annoyed by them actually.

 

Good rule of thumb: never say one group is all one thing or another. I don't go around saying how all men are tough, emotionless, leaders. Cause not all of them are- every single person is different.

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its apparent that all of you have made up your mind for killing innocent babies. therefore anything i say will only seem like idiotic babble to you.

I think you'll find most of us do not support murder.

 

A fetus or embryo does not equal a baby. Maybe, as someone who is pro-life, it feels like a baby to you, but scientifically and technically, it is not. :3

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A fetus or embryo does not equal a baby. Maybe, as someone who is pro-life, it feels like a baby to you, but scientifically and technically, it is not. :3

THIS.

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i love women i love everything about them. i dont understand some of them but i thought women were suppose to be nurturing and caring for children. my mother never once said that she wished i was never born. and i know PLEANTY of mothers that are underaged that absolutely love their children. so dont tell me i have no care for womens rights. i just believe that they shouldnt be the one to decide weather a child being either embryo kid in the oven or kid running around should be killed. a child is a child and has every right to live as the mother or the doctors in the room. period

I am a woman. I do not have children. I have never wished to have children. I'm ecstatic finally to be in a position to say I cannot have children. I would not have made a good mother (yet I made a pretty good teacher back in my teaching days, young kids at that). My mother did an amazing job raising me, having decided to go through with the pregnancy after my father asked her to abort me, and having also decided not to put me up for adoption a few years later when it all became too much for her for a wihle.

 

Not every woman is cut out to be a mother, but every woman should be allowed to choose what happens to their own body.

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Also another quick things about the phobia and drugs. I personally do not have a very high pain tolerance and honestly the idea of squeezing a 7 pound baby out of my birth canal is quite scary to me. Not I'm going to kill myself scary, but scary nonetheless. For me to carry a child for nine months and knowing exactly what was coming would be pure torture for me. And guess what? Drugs would not really help me- seeing as I'm not a fan of needles and after having surgery when I was little gas does not really give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

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its apparent that all of you have made up your mind for killing innocent babies. therefore anything i say will only seem like idiotic babble to you.

I could counter with since you've made up your mind that women are breeders since they gotta pop out them babies, consequences to their health be damned, anything we say will sound like idiotic babble.

 

 

 

But that's not true, and you know it. At least, I'd hope it's not true. (Well, the idiotic babble is probably true, but I'd hope you'd care for the mothers not just the fetuses...)

 

 

I already said it--I'm pro-life and pro-choice, because I care for the mother as well as the unborn child--and BOTH of them must be taken into account. If the mother cannot bear to birth the child, then it is wrong to stomp on her quality of life to force an unwanted child into the world--a child that might never even receive a loving family.

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I could counter with since you've made up your mind that women are breeders since they gotta pop out them babies, consequences to their health be damned, anything we say will sound like idiotic babble.

 

 

 

But that's not true, and you know it. At least, I'd hope it's not true. (Well, the idiotic babble is probably true, but I'd hope you'd care for the mothers not just the fetuses...)

 

 

I already said it--I'm pro-life and pro-choice, because I care for the mother as well as the unborn child--and BOTH of them must be taken into account. If the mother cannot bear to birth the child, then it is wrong to stomp on her quality of life to force an unwanted child into the world--a child that might never even receive a loving family.

I usually refrian from posting in this thread because my views on abortion are a bit confusing and I'm not sure how to phrase them, but you've summed it up perfectly. c:

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First off: drugs during pregnancy, of any kind.

 

What about a phobia of pregnancy - not of childbirth. Keeping women drugged for nine months doesn't sound healthy - physically or psychologically.

 

No, it isn't.

 

Most drugs during pregnancy are a no-nos to an epic degree. A lot of them can and will cause birth defects (anyone ever seen those antidepressant lawsuit commercials?).

 

And secondly, I believe the preferred treatment for most phobias is to uncondition you to them by having you to face your fear(s), not drugs.

 

Secondly: pregnancy is stupidly dangerous.

 

Here's a short rundown of some conditions pregnancy can cause:

 

-Ectopic pregnancy: sometimes the blastocyst never makes it to the uterus- but still implants itself somewhere and begins growing, usually in a fallopian tube. If left untreated, they can (and usually will) rupture, and eventually this will kill the mother through infection and whatnot.

-Eclampsia: a life-threatening rise in blood pressure

-Osteoporosis/general malnutrition: mama not getting enough nutrition for herself and fetus? fetus will suck it out of the mother's body anyway, leaving the mother at a greater risk for things like broken bones and fractures.

-Rhesus disease: this happens mainly during birth when mama's and baby's blood mixes and they're different Rh factors. mixing of pos and neg blood will cause a life-threatening immune response.

-Hemorrhage: mostly during birth and can be fatal.

-Broken hips: usually if the women's hips aren't wide enough for the fetus' head to pass through comfortably.

 

There are a slew of others.

 

==

 

i just believe that they shouldnt be the one to decide weather a child being either embryo kid in the oven or kid running around should be killed. a child is a child and has every right to live as the mother or the doctors in the room. period

 

I find this statement to callous. It's my uterus. Why should other people have a say in what I do to it?

 

Something else that bothers me about the anti-choicers/pro-birthers: none of them actively seem to be advocating for easier sterilization. Doing that would stop a lot of unwanted pregnancies, I'd think.

 

I guess my whole point here is:

 

mind your own uterus. Leave mine alone. :/

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Alright, I'm not a woman, I'll never be a woman so I honestly can't give a full opinion on this but here is my $0.02

 

Honestly I feel if somebody is raped (also counts for incest) and doesn't think they can raise a child, they can abort the child, it's their body, this is just my opinion but honestly I can't imagine how a woman would feel having to make the decision to have an abortion, once again I'm not a woman so I don't actually know if the decision is hard, but I imagine it is

 

But as I said, this is my $0.02 on a subject I'll never experience so if I sounded ignorant I'm sorry, but I felt like throwing in my opinion

 

 

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Alright, I'm not a woman, I'll never be a woman so I honestly can't give a full opinion on this but here is my $0.02

 

Honestly I feel if somebody is raped (also counts for incest) and doesn't think they can raise a child, they can abort the child, it's their body, this is just my opinion but honestly I can't imagine how a woman would feel having to make the decision to have an abortion, once again I'm not a woman so I don't actually know if the decision is hard, but I imagine it is

 

But as I said, this is my $0.02 on a subject I'll never experience so if I sounded ignorant I'm sorry, but I felt like throwing in my opinion

Actually that was quite open-minded wub.gif Maybe I'm an idiot, but I'm not sure how it could come off as anything else.

 

Also to the pro-birthers:

 

Are you vegan?

 

Are you against the death penalty?

 

Are you a woman?

 

Do you have my uterus?

 

If you answered 'yes' to all those questions you are now free to judge my reproductive choices.

Edited by Snowytoshi

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I wish abortions were never needed. I wish every child that comes into the world was loved, had a happy family, was nurtured, given a good education, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, we live in reality.

I don't go to a particularly good school, and there are always girls getting pregnant. Last school year there were four girls, I think, that had gotten pregnant. From rape or choice I do not know, but I found myself wishing that they would abort because they would be such horrible mothers of the child. And all of them except for one aborted. The girl who didn't went through with childbirth, but the baby died shorty afterwards.

 

Also another quick things about the phobia and drugs. I personally do not have a very high pain tolerance and honestly the idea of squeezing a 7 pound baby out of my birth canal is quite scary to me.

Personally, I'm deathly afraid of pain. Any sort of pain. I've always been a really weak person when it comes to bodily harm, and I don't think I could handle sex, much less giving birth to a child. I've also had a really bad history with depression, and the thought of carrying a child terrifies me. I don't know if I would end my life, but if I ever do get pregnant unintentionally, I'd probably have an abortion. Apart from the fact that it's terrifying, I really wouldn't be a good mom.

Edited by Lady Artemis

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Personally, I'm deathly afraid of pain. Any sort of pain. I've always been a really weak person when it comes to bodily harm, and I don't think I could handle sex, much less giving birth to a child. I've also had a really bad history with depression, and the thought of carrying a child terrifies me. I don't know if I would end my life, but if I ever do get pregnant unintentionally, I'd probably have an abortion. Apart from the fact that it's terrifying, I really wouldn't be a good mom.

For me, if I were to have a baby now, it'd be a huge huge deal because I would be kicked out by the school, generally socially shunned, and unable to get a job-which would detriment my ability to care for the child, emotionally, physically, and economically. I'd rather get a child when I'm ready for it, thanks.

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Abortion is wrong in my opinion cuz who are you to decide if a child lives or dies. if you dont want the baby there are pleanty of people who would love to have it. there are many couples that cant have children of their own who would love to have a new baby girl or boy so my OPINION is that if your pregnant have the baby and if you dont want it give it to someone else.

 

Like they'd love to have the thousands of children in need of adoption RIGHT NOW? There are many, many born kids these mythical people could adopt if they really wanted to. Problem is, a LOT of people only want babies, and only if they're white, and only if they're perfectly healthy. Also, women are not incubators. Fertile women do not exist to provide babies for women who can't have them. Do you have any idea what kind of trauma giving up chilren can and does cause birth mothers? It's not as simple and easy as you'd like to think.

 

 

even an embryo can be classified as a baby. life shouldnt be thrown away even if its just an egg and sperm in their mating phase. i understand that the adoption center is flawed but the only way for it to get better is by supporting pro life so that the adoption centers can get more funding so that they can buy better equipment and more caregivers.
No, it can't. An embryo is by definition, NOT a baby. It's not even a fetus. It has the potential to become a baby. It also has the potential to become a tumour.

 

 

ape: yes i know its wrong and people do it anyways and i think the censorkip.gif***s should be killed but why should the child suffer just because some man forced himself on you. who knows that child may become the president. not only would you be taking the life of an innocent but you may also be robbing someone of future dreams and ideals

 

Incest: again i know its wrong and its proven that defects happen in children born from said union but again not the childs fault so why should it die because of an unfortunate mistake or choice?

 

Phobias: thats what drugs are for xd.png to keep you knocked out till the whole painful process is over so you dont remember a moment of it xd.png

Oh, please. The "what if it was going to be the next president!!?!!1?" nonsense. What if it was? What if was going to be the next Hitler? Who CARES? And what about the dreams and ideals of the woman carrying it? Do they not matter? Do you not care about the fact that the woman impregnated is innocent as well?

 

Good god. Have you ever BEEN the victim of incest? It's not "an unfortunate mistake or choice". Being raped or molested by a family member is not like a bad haircut or getting an ugly tattoo or running into a tree.

 

Do you realise that a LOT of victims of incest are underage? Are you seriously arguing that a CHILD or teenage victim should have to be further victimised by carrying their abuser's child to term? Are you aware that that could literally kill an underage girl? Do you care at all about the effects on her? Do you think that she wouldn't be traumatised enough without piling on an unwanted pregnancy? If you want I can tell you firsthand what it's like to be an incest survivor. I was never raped, but it was pretty freaking traumatic anyway. I don't think I'd have survived if that had ever happened, because I was a somewhat sickly child. (High blood pressure-pregnancy probably would have killed me.)

 

You honestly think it would be somehow acceptable to drug a woman up for nine months so she couldn't object to being used as an incubator? That could kill both mother and child, or cause horrific birth defects. Oh, also, THAT'S COMPLETELY HORRIFIC. You realise that pregnancy and childbirth are not magical processes that do not permanently alter a woman's body, yeah? It's pretty well impossible to "forget" gestating and birthing a child, especially if you've been treated like livestock for the duration.

 

 

i love women i love everything about them.

No you don't. At all. You don't care about them even a little, unless they're doing what you think they should. You don't think of the wants or value or humanity of women. They're walking incubators to you.

Edited by LascielsShadow

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No you don't. At all. You don't care about them even a little, unless they're doing what you think they should. You don't think of the wants or value or humanity of women. They're walking incubators to you.

Any man who suggests, in all seriousness, that a woman be doped to the gills so she can more easily be forced to incubate an unwanted baby does NOT "love women". He might value them as long as they serve his purposes, or do what he wants them to do, but when they don't...

 

I don't want to finish that sentence, because examples of what happens to women who don't behave the way men think they should are all over the news, and the results are often violent and murderous.

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Abortion= choice

 

I'm a republican but I still think this is a choice, but to a limit.

What do you mean by "to a limit"?

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Incest: again i know its wrong and its proven that defects happen in children born from said union but again not the childs fault so why should it die because of an unfortunate mistake or choice?

 

Phobias: thats what drugs are for to keep you knocked out till the whole painful process is over so you dont remember a moment of

 

Ignorance is bliss.

 

 

 

What do you mean by "to a limit"?

 

I second this

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