Abortion

[ShinyTomato]

You dont do links to studies ? Is it not open to public ? Because it is a study which should be opened to public, the whole point of it should be creating awareness, secrecy on that topic is almost as ridiculous as the law against abortion dry.gif

 

Take it up with CPS, which requires me to cite physical journals, and does not permit me to link studies on the internet, which could be seen as an extension of work or people would reasonably assume so. I cited the journal. You wnt to read it, do some actual research.

[Kazeko]

Well actually buddhism does have a hell, did not know about Wicca sorry, but my point generally was that most religions do have a tinge of nastiness in them, it is noy all about respecting life and whatnot, and some people do act on that nastiness and always will.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism) Buddhist version if hell

As with all religions, only certain sects. Some sects of Christianity believe in a Hell, but there are quite a few which don't, as well as individuals who don't accept the idea of a Hell.

 

All religion is relative. It is literally impossible to say "all religions are x" or "all religions do x" because there are religions and sects of religions that cover just about any variation on a characteristic you could think of.

[Rosedamai]

As with all religions, only certain sects. Some sects of Christianity believe in a Hell, but there are quite a few which don't, as well as individuals who don't accept the idea of a Hell.

 

All religion is relative. It is literally impossible to say "all religions are x" or "all religions do x" because there are religions and sects of religions that cover just about any variation on a characteristic you could think of.

Fair enough, my bad

[Brite]

Back on the topic, it seems I'm the only pro-choicer in my english class now. (Then again, some of the guys don't care)

 

We're doing satire and the two girls choice abortion. I understand satire but I think abortion is too much of a serious topic to turn it into strict humor. And a lot of people in the class were saying abortion is a problem...Looks like I can't argue again...but just facepalm when the time comes to present.

[Kazeko]

I won't deny that abortion is a problem. If it's necessary to save the woman's life, then that's perfectly understandable and okay. When a fetus is aborted from a mother who is physically, financially, socially and mentally capable of supporting a child, that is a problem.

 

That said I am most definitely pro-choice, because without choice what is there?

[Layn]

I won't deny that abortion is a problem. If it's necessary to save the woman's life, then that's perfectly understandable and okay. When a fetus is aborted from a mother who is physically, financially, socially and mentally capable of supporting a child, that is a problem.

 

That said I am most definitely pro-choice, because without choice what is there?

Does giving birth to the child count as supporting the child?

[skinst]

I won't deny that abortion is a problem. If it's necessary to save the woman's life, then that's perfectly understandable and okay. When a fetus is aborted from a mother who is physically, financially, socially and mentally capable of supporting a child, that is a problem.

What about a simple "I'm not ready for children yet." ?

 

That is a choice. If you're Pro-Choice, you'd support that to.

[Brite]

What about a simple "I'm not ready for children yet." ?

 

That is a choice. If you're Pro-Choice, you'd support that to.

Or simply not wanting one, no matter how "ready" someone sees you as.

[Obscure_Trash]

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=126657

 

~This topic has been cleaned~

[Dr. Paine]

10 year old gives birth to child. The child was suffering pneumonia, while the girl was having seizures (both seem to be recovering, though). There's currently an investigation as to if she were raped or not.

 

Admittedly, this story doesn't have a ton of details, but... well, I figured someone would post it here.

[skinst]

It is illegal for women in Peubla to have abortions, unless they can prove they have been forced into sex, but the laws are currently under review.

 

I'm hoping that this means that other poor woman who get into strife will be able to access abortion easier. That girl is a child herself. It's disgusting that she didn't have access to it.

[Brite]

I'm hoping that this means that other poor woman who get into strife will be able to access abortion easier. That girl is a child herself. It's disgusting that she didn't have access to it.

Is that story recent? Because there was a 10-year that gave birth after being raped by her mother's boyfriend. Sick story.

[Luckyclaw]

Abortions are a very touchy subject, even I still find contradictions in my own thoughts about it. Personally, I feel as though human life starts as soon as a heart begins to beat and would never have an abortion of my own because I feel it's wrong; however I'm pro-choice for others. Just because I think one way doesn't mean others should have to as well, espcially women who can't support, do not want, or feel the world is overpopulated as is.

*Coming from a person who isn't looking to have children ever, aside from perhaps adoption.*

[Brite]

Abortions are a very touchy subject, even I still find contradictions in my own thoughts about it. Personally, I feel as though human life starts as soon as a heart begins to beat and would never have an abortion of my own because I feel it's wrong; however I'm pro-choice for others. Just because I think one way doesn't mean others should have to as well, espcially women who can't support, do not want, or feel the world is overpopulated as is.

*Coming from a person who isn't looking to have children ever, aside from perhaps adoption.*

A heart is just a muscle. It can still become a tumor or be reabsorbed into the body. Some rare tumors still have a heart beat but no longer have the potential to become a human. Someone pointed this out before the wipe.

Edited November 13, 2011 by GhostChilli

[Kazeko]

What about a simple "I'm not ready for children yet." ?

 

That is a choice. If you're Pro-Choice, you'd support that to.

Or simply not wanting one, no matter how "ready" someone sees you as.

 

That's just plain irresponsible. I accept that accidental pregnancies happen, and in that case--though regrettable--it is definitely the woman's choice to have an abortion.

 

However, both partners in a relationship should think before having unprotected sex. If a woman isn't ready for a child, or simply doesn't want one, she should decide that and take the appropriate measures to prevent pregnancy before abortion even becomes an issue.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Kazeko

[Luckyclaw]

A heart is just a muscle. It can still become a tumor or be reabsorbed into the body. Some rare tumors still have a heart beat but no longer have the potential to become a human. Someone pointed this out before the wipe.

Hm, true, however at the beginning of said muscle beginning to beat, it reqiures electrical impulses all its own provided by the brain of the being to the full extent of my knlowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong. After a while the life inside the brain may be extinguished by whatever means and at that point it's just a collection of cells, but in my personal opinion when the heart begins to beat, no matter how breif, there was/is human life there.

 

Again, I'm not saying "Abortion is a devil child that must be eliminated from the world!" It's just my personal opinion of where the earth stops and the sky begins. You want to have an abortion? Go ahead. You probably have a good reason for doing so anyway, even if it's just because you don't want a baby.

 

((I'm not up to the lesson in my Biology class on full brain fuctions (Not even 100% sure if it's taught in High School), when it starts, nor have I ever had a full seminar on just the baisics of impulses. What I know in certian scientific fields may be wrong and please do correct me if I say something false.))

[tyto_alba]

-snip

 

However, both partners in a relationship should think before having unprotected sex. If a woman isn't ready for a child, or simply doesn't want one, she should decide that and take the appropriate measures to prevent pregnancy before abortion even becomes an issue.

And if those measure fail?

[Dr. Paine]

Hm, true, however at the beginning of said muscle beginning to beat, it reqiures electrical impulses all its own provided by the brain of the being to the full extent of my knlowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong. After a while the life inside the brain may be extinguished by whatever means and at that point it's just a collection of cells, but in my personal opinion when the heart begins to beat, no matter how breif, there was/is human life there.

 

Again, I'm not saying "Abortion is a devil child that must be eliminated from the world!" It's just my personal opinion of where the earth stops and the sky begins. You want to have an abortion? Go ahead. You probably have a good reason for doing so anyway, even if it's just because you don't want a baby.

 

((I'm not up to the lesson in my Biology class on full brain fuctions (Not even 100% sure if it's taught in High School), when it starts, nor have I ever had a full seminar on just the baisics of impulses. What I know in certian scientific fields may be wrong and please do correct me if I say something false.))

Actually, what I've seen has shown that the proto-heart cells are just beating wildly on their own, there's no regulation until the brain has actually started to develop. And that's much later down the line.

 

 

ETA: Okay, some research has been done.

 

I was somewhat mistaken- the beginnings of the heart begin to beat around 6 weeks, with the pace picking up steadily over the following month or so until it reaches about 160 bpm, then it starts to taper off, that's what I was trying to remember.

 

However, the brain has no real ability to process sensory information (those connections don't even begin until the thirty-first week or so), and the ability for the nervous system to control bodily functions (like heartbeat, etc) doesn't appear to come about until the 27th week.

 

Make of that what you will, I just wanted to make sure we both had our facts somewhat straight

Edited November 13, 2011 by Dr. Paine

[Kazeko]

And if those measure fail?

I already addressed that--in that case, it's the woman's right to have an abortion. It's regrettable, and it's not a choice I would personally make, but it's a choice.

[Brite]

That's just plain irresponsible

 

What's more irresponsible? Getting an abortion or bringing a child into the world you're unable to care for? I really hope Shiny comes back to the thread.

 

 

After a while the life inside the brain may be extinguished by whatever means and at that point it's just a collection of cells, but in my personal opinion when the heart begins to beat, no matter how breif, there was/is human life there.

 

It's alive, but not a "life". Much like cancer, and again, tumors.

Edited November 13, 2011 by GhostChilli

[skinst]

Something to think about in your case Kazeko:

 

A friend of mine was with a guy and when they decided to become intimate, she warned him that she was not on birth control and provided him with a condom.

 

He took it off without her knowing (heat of the moment thing) and lo and behold, became pregnant from it. Luckily she miscarried and didn't have to seek an abortion.

 

It's very important to remember that as much as we as outsiders can say "make sure you use protection!", sometimes even then there are infinite circumstances and infinite different cases, all unique, when it comes to this.

 

That's why I believe that it isn't my business to know the hows and whys. And that, for me, you either believe everyone should have one or no one should. Because the moment exceptions are brought into the picture either way is when laws are screwed up.

[Brite]

Something to think about in your case Kazeko:

 

A friend of mine was with a guy and when they decided to become intimate, she warned him that she was not on birth control and provided him with a condom.

 

He took it off without her knowing (heat of the moment thing) and lo and behold, became pregnant from it. Luckily she miscarried and didn't have to seek an abortion.

 

It's very important to remember that as much as we as outsiders can say "make sure you use protection!", sometimes even then there are infinite circumstances and infinite different cases, all unique, when it comes to this.

 

That's why I believe that it isn't my business to know the hows and whys. And that, for me, you either believe everyone should have one or no one should. Because the moment exceptions are brought into the picture either way is when laws are screwed up.

Right now I'm on antibiotics so my bc is as useless as me taking it. It's scary to know that protection isn't enough. People DO use protection and still can get pregnant. I'm lucky that my mate is sterile, who only has a .5% chance of impregnating but even that number STILL freaks me out. Some people just aren't fit for having kids. I never will be. I hate kids, I baby-sat and I gag, almost puke when I have to wipe their noses(pathetic huh?). Why call them irresponsible when they want to abort? Seems to me that abortion is probably the most responsible thing.

 

Speaking of responsible, I think it trumps the whole idea of teens thinking they should get married to solve everything when they end up pregnant. I've worked with some of those teenagers and I can tell right away that the baby in the situation will have an awful life..Why does sex ed put that into a teenagers mind that if they get pregnant, the most "responsible" thing to do is get married? I'm serious, this program happened in my middle school and they never once ruled out abortion as an option...

Edited November 13, 2011 by GhostChilli

[ShinyTomato]

Hm, true, however at the beginning of said muscle beginning to beat, it reqiures electrical impulses all its own provided by the brain of the being to the full extent of my knlowledge. Correct me if I'm wrong. After a while the life inside the brain may be extinguished by whatever means and at that point it's just a collection of cells, but in my personal opinion when the heart begins to beat, no matter how breif, there was/is human life there.

 

So what happens if a fetus turns into a tumor, but the tumor still has a heartbeat? It can and does happen. It's DNA hasn't changed, it still has a heartbeat, but it can never become a viable human being, but it is still alive.

 

It's not dead, it's just alive as the fetus f the woman down the street who will carry to term.

 

I really hope Shiny comes back to the thread.

 

Aw, was I missed? Ask and ye shall receive.

[Brite]

Aw, was I missed? Ask and ye shall receive.

 

Tons. With the wipe, I thought I was going to have to memorize many scientific facts and statistics that helped out a lot. Someone mentioned a tumor fetus could breathe. How is that exactly possible?

[ShinyTomato]

Tons. With the wipe, I thought I was going to have to memorize many scientific facts and statistics that helped out a lot. Someone mentioned a tumor fetus could breathe. How is that exactly possible?

If a fetus becomes a tumor late in gestation, and the pulmonary system has already developed lungs, then a tumor can breathe. A tumor is any neoplasm -- a new growth of tissue in which cell multiplication is uncontrolled and progressive.

 

If cell multiplication gets out of control in a fetus past 25 weeks, there will be rudimentary lungs. However, I don't know if "breathing" is the right term, since the placenta gives the baby all the oxygen, which is why lungs are the last thing to develop.

 

For example, when I had Kai, (strapped down to the table and all) they had me full of steroids, because as early as she was, her lungs weren't fully formed.

 

(You'd never know it from the lungs she has on her now.)