Abortion

[Dekka]

16 hours ago, Laryal said:

 I was talking to anouther player an yes if one person can do it then others can if they want. See i am a virgin still an will be till i die.I was not saying everyone should but there are billions of women an men like me still in this world. An here are some links to those who are debating when life begins.

 

https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/fetal-development/fetal-brain-nervous-system/

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

 

no lmao -- there are not BILLIONS of virgins. there are 7 billion people. you are trying to say over 1/7 of people are virgins. that's so far beyond incorrect.

"you can just not have sex" is not a valid argument, sex is not a crime, it is a primal drive and most people at some point or another engage in the act.  if you are responsible with sex and do what you can to prevent a pregnancy, you should not be refused an abortion. you're trying to say "if they want to"  but then essentially shaming everyone who doesn't do what you do, especially if them having sex results in an unwanted pregnancy. people don't have to not have sex to prevent abortion

 

 

a good rule of thumb is that CONSENT TO SEX IS NOT CONSENT TO PREGNANCY and no woman should be obligated to carry something within her body that she does not want to be carrying.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Dekka

[JavaTigress]

1 hour ago, Alrexwolf said:

 

This is a very, very big thing also. I was recently at the doctors and, when learning of a sterilization procedure I had never heard of (that spares the uterus/ovaries completely), I asked more about how one would go about getting something like that done. I'm an adult. I am over 18, and can make legal medical decisions. Yet, I was told I was too young and that was the end of the conversation.

 

I never want children. Any pregnancy would be unwanted. I can barely, in reality, care for myself - let alone another life. And, like some other people in this thread, babies seriously freak me out. Yet, because I'm young, I seemingly don't have a right to say what happens to my body. I can't get sterilized because I'm too young - there are plenty of people like me, over 18, who know they don't want children. Period. They don't have the option to get sterilized because, as Kith said, doctors are aggressive about it. Pro-lifers are aggressive about it. 

 

Then they turn around and tell people who would have otherwise gotten sterilized if they had the option/were allowed but got pregnant on accident that they're irresponsible and murdering a child. THAT situation in particular really grinds my gears.

To be FAIR , though, @Alrexwolf, that situation isn't really JUST on 'pro-lifers'.

 

Matter of fact, I am totally in favor of someone being able to decide to be sterilized if they feel that that is the best choice.

I have no problem with preventing a pregnancy BEFORE one exists.

 

I think , more to the point, Docs are AFRAID that if they allow a person to go through with something like that, and that individual later changes their mind, well... that they will be held liable. People sue over some pretty silly stuff AND it isn't difficult for me to imagine this from the Doc's perspective. I am not saying you are WRONG about it being a problem ( I very much believe that it is... if a person NEVER wants kids and KNOWS they NEVER, ever will, why can't they make that choice? Certainly I find that preferable to abortion if/when pregnancy results.), just that docs may have their ( not totally pro-life related...) reasons for taking the stand on it they do... unfortunate though that may be.

[Kith]

@JavaTigress

Then there should be some sort of waiver available to absolve them of legal responsibility, should someone decide to sue after the fact. I had to sign one before getting my lower back x-rayed, just in case it made me sterile, so it's not like inserting that sort of paperwork into the preparation for sterilization couldn't be done... I don't know why it isn't already part of the process, really.

[JavaTigress]

3 minutes ago, Kith said:

@JavaTigress

Then there should be some sort of waiver available to absolve them of legal responsibility, should someone decide to sue after the fact. I had to sign one before getting my lower back x-rayed, just in case it made me sterile, so it's not like inserting that sort of paperwork into the preparation for sterilization couldn't be done... I don't know why it isn't already part of the process, really.

That, actually sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to deal with it, to be honest.

 

I am not sure why that ISN'T how it is handled , already, to be honest.

[olympe]

10 minutes ago, JavaTigress said:

That, actually sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to deal with it, to be honest.

 

I am not sure why that ISN'T how it is handled , already, to be honest.

Probably because people would still sue, claiming they were conned into signing that waiver... And some idiotic "sympathetic" judge will rule in their favor.

There's also the issue of way too many women actually changing their minds, resulting in expensive fertility treatment after sterilization (where only the fallopian tubes were... altered).

[Fuzzbucket]

23 hours ago, Zeditha said:

Laryal - I think what we're trying to say isn't that abstinence isn't a valid method of birth control, or that it won't work, or that it's silly. Abstinence works for some people, like you. It's simply that some people don't want to, or can't, or get raped, or *don't understand what sex is because of a complete lack of education*. I have heard of cases where people didn't know what sex was, only that they shouldn't do it - or even had no idea that sex would lead to pregnancy.

 

Basically what we're saying is that while abstinence might be a solution for you, and for many people, it isn't a solution for everyone.

 

(And education is very important. Teaching children literally nothing more than 'sex is bad don't do it' gets nobody anywhere.)

 

21 hours ago, Zeditha said:

 

I don't know how true the particular case I read about was (it wasn't from the most reliable of websites) but if it was, I wouldn't put the blame on the person, but rather the education system they went through. Obviously, if they didn't know, they weren't taught - and it was never talked about. That is a result of abstinence-only culture, where children are only told not to, without being told what the results are, and certainly not how to do it safely. If we remove the stigmas surrounding sex, especially the (sometimes religious) cultural stigmas, that cause people to think abstinence-only sex 'ed' is okay, then we can begin teaching children what these things mean. After all, not everyone is going to think about these things themselves to look it up. That's what school is *for*.

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if someone doesn't know these basic things, obviously they weren't taught or told, either in school or by their parents. So what needs fixing is the system.

 

 

Yes yes yes. I used to work in Public Health. Some of the things teenagers and young people "knew" beggar belief. And I don't even include the idea that withdrawal works or the one that says you can't get pregnant the first time.

 

There's the one where you can get pregnant if you sit on a c hair that's still warm from a guy sitting on it.

That you can ***** with Coke afterwards and you'll be fine.

You can only get pregnant if you do it when lying down - you're safe standing.

You can only get pregnant through something that happens after you get married (WHAT was unspecified.)

 

When my two were in school, I was one of the parents invited to a programme to introduce a new sex ed programme. I was in a group where one woman just said all you need to do is tell them not to do it. I asked her over and over what, and she'd just say "well, THAT." Pressed, she blushed furiously and said well, intercourse, So I got out a dictionary and pointed out that the first entry in there was about communication

 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/intercourse

 

So did she want kids told not to talk to anyone in case they got pregnant ? She still didn't get it. Proper sex ed is VITAL.

 

 

20 hours ago, Alrexwolf said:

 

This is a very, very big thing also. I was recently at the doctors and, when learning of a sterilization procedure I had never heard of (that spares the uterus/ovaries completely), I asked more about how one would go about getting something like that done. I'm an adult. I am over 18, and can make legal medical decisions. Yet, I was told I was too young and that was the end of the conversation.

 

I never want children. Any pregnancy would be unwanted. I can barely, in reality, care for myself - let alone another life. And, like some other people in this thread, babies seriously freak me out. Yet, because I'm young, I seemingly don't have a right to say what happens to my body. I can't get sterilized because I'm too young - there are plenty of people like me, over 18, who know they don't want children. Period. They don't have the option to get sterilized because, as Kith said, doctors are aggressive about it. Pro-lifers are aggressive about it. 

 

Then they turn around and tell people who would have otherwise gotten sterilized if they had the option/were allowed but got pregnant on accident that they're irresponsible and murdering a child. THAT situation in particular really grinds my gears.

 

Funny you should mention that. I was 27 and had two children - all I wanted - when I wanted to be sterilised. The doctors insisted that my partner sign a consent form. He was FURIOUS and said it was nothing to do with him; it was my body. But even so, they wouldn't do it unless he signed.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[Fuzzbucket]

I cannot believe the kipz just did that. I hope you all know what I meant ?

[Laryal]

3 hours ago, Dekka said:

no lmao -- there are not BILLIONS of virgins. there are 7 billion people. you are trying to say over 1/7 of people are virgins. that's so far beyond incorrect.

"you can just not have sex" is not a valid argument, sex is not a crime, it is a primal drive and most people at some point or another engage in the act.  if you are responsible with sex and do what you can to prevent a pregnancy, you should not be refused an abortion. you're trying to say "if they want to"  but then essentially shaming everyone who doesn't do what you do, especially if them having sex results in an unwanted pregnancy. people don't have to not have sex to prevent abortion

 

 

a good rule of thumb is that CONSENT TO SEX IS NOT CONSENT TO PREGNANCY and no woman should be obligated to carry something within her body that she does not want to be carrying.

I am not shaming no one an did you not read what i said i said if they want? Now please read what i said  thanks.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Laryal

[Dekka]

14 minutes ago, Laryal said:

I am not shaming no one an did you not read what i said i said if they want? Now please read what i said  thanks.

yes you said "if they want" but you literally are saying everyone should do that rather than having an abortion . you're saying abstinence is a better option than having an abortion... i can read, "thanks".

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by Dekka

[Laryal]

37 minutes ago, Dekka said:

yes you said "if they want" but you literally are saying everyone should do that rather than having an abortion . you're saying abstinence is a better option than having an abortion.. i can read, "thanks".

 

No i am saying if they want which is allot different than saying you should or you have to.Now saying if you want implies that you have a choice right?

Edited September 20, 2018 by Laryal

[Dekka]

11 minutes ago, Laryal said:

No i am saying if they want which is allot different than say you should or you have to.Now saying if you want implies that you have a choice right?

sure, but saying abortion should be illegal says you don't or shouldn't have a choice right?

[Laryal]

24 minutes ago, Dekka said:

sure, but saying abortion should be illegal says you don't or shouldn't have a choice right?

An i did not say that i just said that you can prevent it if you wanted so what is so wrong with that? 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Laryal

[Dekka]

25 minutes ago, Laryal said:

An i did not say that i just said that you can prevent it if you wanted so what is so wrong with that? 

you have been arguing against abortion in every post you've made... so yes you kind of did say that or at the very least strongly implied it...

Edited September 20, 2018 by Dekka

[Laryal]

2 minutes ago, Dekka said:

you have been arguing against abortion in every post you've made... so yes you kind of did say that or at the very least strongly implied it...

Like i asked what is wrong with it my opinion just like everyone else's  opinion so why is my opinion so wrong an yours right?

[Dekka]

3 minutes ago, Laryal said:

Like i asked what is wrong with it my opinion just like everyone else's  opinion so why is my opinion so wrong an yours right?

i never said you couldn't have an opinion, but i won't let your opinion control my or anyone else's body or decisions.

at this point you're going in circles and i'm getting confused on what your point is, you're denying what you've said before

[Laryal]

13 minutes ago, Dekka said:

i never said you couldn't have an opinion, but i won't let your opinion control my or anyone else's body or decisions.

at this point you're going in circles and i'm getting confused on what your point is, you're denying what you've said before

Please let this rest ok it was dealt with an you it seems are trying your best to get it started again.I am not going to do that so please carry on ok thanks. Also i could say the same but i won't let your opinion control my or anyone else's opinion on this matter. So like i said please carry on thank you.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Laryal

[AugKitty]

A lot of people figure when the baby is less than three months old it isn't bad to take it's life because it isn't an advanced life form, but think about who that baby could be. You're taking the life of a defenseless human being. I, personally, vow never to get an abortion, but I think every woman should always have the choice. Lina Marcela was a five year old who gave birth. Obviously, she wasn't ready to have a child. She couldn't have had an abortion, she was seventh months pregnant when she found out, but if she had found out earlier she surely should have. A girl of that age should never have to go under the physical stress of having a child, and neither should many other young women. But if they're physically ready for a child, I would advise them to have it and give it up for adoption or to a family member because it would be very hard to live with knowing that you killed a person before they were born.

 

I started to think about abortion when my dad told me that he'd had countless abortions. I was, of course, horrified, and an hour later I began to think more about it. It made me think about how I could have been the child that was killed. I mean, I couldn't really have been, because my mom never would have said yes to abortion, but what if I was one of the other babies? I was very sad that I'd had so many half sisters and brothers that I would never get to meet and guide through their lives.

[relaks]

15 hours ago, JavaTigress said:

That, actually sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to deal with it, to be honest.

 

I am not sure why that ISN'T how it is handled , already, to be honest.

Honestly I just think Doctors are afraid of the permanency of the procedure. I think most people who think "I don't want children" won't ever change their mind about it, but I also think some will, at one point. And I guess the fear is of someone making this decision so young (because, gosh, I'm 23 and I personally would be afraid of making this kind of "forever" choice, but that's just me) and then regret it. 

And as you said, the US is particularly known for all the suing they do against doctors. I don't think doctors other countries are so afraid of that (though it's always a possibility, mind you), I think their mind is on the permanent repercussions on the body. 

Is it ok? Is it ok to be so afraid of the "what if" that you deny a consenting adult this choice? Probably not. Alas, that's the state of the medical field today: so afraid of being sued and accused that they cannot do their work properly. 

 

@Alrexwolf Do you know the name of the medical procedure you were talking about? It is pure scientific curiosity. No judging, just want to take a look at it as I don't know any procedure that would keep the ovaries intact in the long term (which is the main problem when sterilising). Feel free to PM me if you remember, as it's not exactly the subject of this thread.

 

Edit: Someone was kind enough to provide me some answers via PM! Apparently I was severely misinformed about some things, oups! 

 

8 hours ago, AugKitty said:

A lot of people figure when the baby is less than three months old it isn't bad to take it's life because it isn't an advanced life form, but think about who that baby could be. You're taking the life of a defenseless human being. I, personally, vow never to get an abortion, but I think every woman should always have the choice. Lina Marcela was a five year old who gave birth. Obviously, she wasn't ready to have a child. She couldn't have had an abortion, she was seventh months pregnant when she found out, but if she had found out earlier she surely should have. A girl of that age should never have to go under the physical stress of having a child, and neither should many other young women. But if they're physically ready for a child, I would advise them to have it and give it up for adoption or to a family member because it would be very hard to live with knowing that you killed a person before they were born.

 

I started to think about abortion when my dad told me that he'd had countless abortions. I was, of course, horrified, and an hour later I began to think more about it. It made me think about how I could have been the child that was killed. I mean, I couldn't really have been, because my mom never would have said yes to abortion, but what if I was one of the other babies? I was very sad that I'd had so many half sisters and brothers that I would never get to meet and guide through their lives.

 

I appreciate that you say that everyone should have a choice, but for me, the problem with this kind of argument is that you are basically guilt-tripping a pregnant person to keep the baby. If you keep hearing "it's murder, think about the 'possible' baby, etc", that's just so, so, so messed up for your state of mind. Like "yeah, do what you want,you have a choice, but just so you know, you are killing a person". That's just... no. That's a horrible thing to say to someone, I'm sorry. It is voluntarily playing with someone's mind and, to me, that's not ok. If you really, really think that it's everyone's choice (as you just claimed)... Then just say "I wouldn't do it, because I don't like it", that's all. No need to accuse someone of murder.

 

And it's not as simple as giving the baby for adoption. For one, a pregnancy is not just about the outcome, it's about the "journey". 9 months of being pregnant? That's not a walk in the park. Some people live it spectacularly, and that's super yay! But for most, there's a moment when it becomes uncomfortable. The hormonal, physical & emotional changes are serious. Going through a pregnancy if you're not going to keep the baby is not something everyone wants... or even can support. It is not selfish to keep your health in mind, to be your own priority. Secondly, there's already so, so many children in the system. Why force someone to "keep a life" if you're going to disregard that life once it's out of the uterus? 

 

Btw, how could your father have an abortion? I'm confused. Cis men cannot have abortions. 🤔 

Edited September 20, 2018 by relaks

[Cecona]

I think they meant their father knocked up a bunch of women and then paid/made them get the abortion. Probably because he wasnt ready to be a father and deal with having a child, or didn’t have the money to pay child support.

 

I would also like to point out that in the same sense that aborted embryo could have been a loving sibling, it could also be the next Hitler or Stalin.

 

I also advise you do some research on the literal living hell that is the adoption/foster care system before insisting women force themselves to go through 40 weeks of hell and a medical procedure that could possibly kill her just to throw the child in the already over crowded system where there is a more likely than not chance of them to be abused, molested, neglected, kept purely for the money they bring in, and attempt suicide before they are even teenagers.

 

I know a few good foster families and have heard these tales from the children themselves.

[hazeh]

11 hours ago, AugKitty said:

A lot of people figure when the baby is less than three months old it isn't bad to take it's life because it isn't an advanced life form, but think about who that baby could be. You're taking the life of a defenseless human being. I, personally, vow never to get an abortion, but I think every woman should always have the choice. Lina Marcela was a five year old who gave birth. Obviously, she wasn't ready to have a child. She couldn't have had an abortion, she was seventh months pregnant when she found out, but if she had found out earlier she surely should have. A girl of that age should never have to go under the physical stress of having a child, and neither should many other young women. But if they're physically ready for a child, I would advise them to have it and give it up for adoption or to a family member because it would be very hard to live with knowing that you killed a person before they were born.

 

I started to think about abortion when my dad told me that he'd had countless abortions. I was, of course, horrified, and an hour later I began to think more about it. It made me think about how I could have been the child that was killed. I mean, I couldn't really have been, because my mom never would have said yes to abortion, but what if I was one of the other babies? I was very sad that I'd had so many half sisters and brothers that I would never get to meet and guide through their lives.

A lot of people live with it just fine. Many women don't consider it to be a person at all, since it's only the building blocks of one, so if they don't want to go through the process of incubating those building blocks into a person, they don't have to. Nor do they have to feel particularly bad about it. A child that young (or any child) should never have to go through something like that-- it is incredibly life threatening. I can't imagine making a child go through that, and it sickens me to know that it's happened (and has also caused the death of such children who were refused abortions). 

 

Adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy. Adoption is also, very, very difficult for the child. Two of my siblings are adopted, and I have nine adopted aunts and uncles that my grandparents have taken in over the years. The lives these kids lead in foster care is atrocious. I understand it's a necessary avenue for those who don't want to be parents, or are stripped of their parental rights due to child abuse and neglect, but it's such a broken system. The rate of suicide for kids who go through foster care and/or age out of the system is astronomically high. Yes, it is an option for people to choose if they need too-- I don't want to suggest or imply people who want to follow through with the pregnancy but not parenthood shouldn't have that choice-- but I wish it was a better informed one, and not just the throwaway. Intrafamily adoption can help, but it's not always the better or even a feasible option. 

[Alrexwolf]

2 hours ago, hazeh said:

Adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy. Adoption is also, very, very difficult for the child. 

 

A flipping men to that, hazeh. 1010% agreed. 

[Oriane Sera]

I had an abortion almost 2 years ago, and my reasons for such were both selfish and not.

 

I'd just gotten a new job, and the date of conception would've meant that I'd gotten pregnant just before starting at my new place of employment. I was worried that even if my place of business wasn't allowed to discriminate, I live in an at-will state, and could potentially lose my job. Also, the embryo's father was an alcoholic. He put me through some pretty terrible things before I had enough of a foothold to get myself out of the situation. I didn't want to take the chance of him being an abusive father, and sending it off to be adopted after being born wasn't an option for me. My best friend went through the system, and she only ever got foster families, eventually aging out. I also knew that I didn't want to raise a child as a single parent, since my mother often struggled to keep food on the table for both me and my disabled brother, even working 2 jobs and almost never being home. As the child of a single parent who went to work, came home and cooked dinner, and then sent us off to bed, I wanted my little one to feel loved, to never feel like it wasn't getting enough quality time with its family, and to never cry itself to sleep because it felt like its problems were a burden to its mother and bottled them up instead of talking about them.

 

Up until that point, I'd always told myself that I'd never have an abortion. Now, I don't know for certain if the father would've turned abusive or not, and I'll always wonder who that little blueberry would've turned out to be, but that was a difficult judgement call that I had to make and will always have to live with. Statistically, a fetus has between a 20 and 35 percent chance of survival outside the womb if born at 22 weeks, and a good portion of the ones that do survive will have severe health problems. Survival rate doesn't go up to 90 percent until around the 26th week of pregnancy, by which time abortion is vastly illegal unless ordered by a doctor for things such as genetic defects of the baby or health complications of the mother. Women are also statistically much more likely to die from childbirth itself than by abortion.

 

As heartless as this may sound, the way I've come to see it, even though the fetus is created by the actions of two people, up until it's largely viable outside of the womb, it's little more than a parasite to the mother. A large part of why the majority of women supplement with prenatal vitamins is because the embryo will literally suck nutrients from the mother at the expense of her own health if she isn't getting enough from her diet.

 

I also plan on adopting in the future if my current boyfriend and I decide we want another child after our daughter is born. I've had a fairly easy, complication free pregnancy, but I never really wanted kids before him and we're both currently planning on this being our only child. Also, the man I'm with now is absolutely amazing to me, and he's even more excited about our baby than I am. I have no doubt in my mind that she will be absolutely spoiled and extremely loved, which was something I constantly worried about with my last pregnancy.

[Infinis]

18 hours ago, AugKitty said:

A lot of people figure when the baby is less than three months old it isn't bad to take it's life because it isn't an advanced life form, but think about who that baby could be. You're taking the life of a defenseless human being. I, personally, vow never to get an abortion, but I think every woman should always have the choice. Lina Marcela was a five year old who gave birth. Obviously, she wasn't ready to have a child. She couldn't have had an abortion, she was seventh months pregnant when she found out, but if she had found out earlier she surely should have. A girl of that age should never have to go under the physical stress of having a child, and neither should many other young women. But if they're physically ready for a child, I would advise them to have it and give it up for adoption or to a family member because it would be very hard to live with knowing that you killed a person before they were born.

 

I started to think about abortion when my dad told me that he'd had countless abortions. I was, of course, horrified, and an hour later I began to think more about it. It made me think about how I could have been the child that was killed. I mean, I couldn't really have been, because my mom never would have said yes to abortion, but what if I was one of the other babies? I was very sad that I'd had so many half sisters and brothers that I would never get to meet and guide through their lives.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, firstly.

 

Remember for those "what if" or "it could have been" arguments, that they could just as easily have been the next Dahmer instead of a Pope. It's unrealistic to focus only on the positive potentials, which is why these kinds of arguments always concern me a bit.

 

Also, being physically ready for a child is only one part of the process. There are plenty of risks just for being pregnant, like pre-/eclampsia, gestational diabetes, and not to mention that preexisting conditions can make it harder for someone to carry. And then you have to actually survive birth, which carries even more risks, including tearing, hemorrhage, and assortments of permanent damage. And here in the US, childbirth has actually been getting more dangerous than other wealthy countries, for reasons that include significant medical laziness/negligence. USA Today has been investigating this as part of their Deadly Deliveries series: https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/deadly-deliveries/2018/07/26/maternal-mortality-rates-preeclampsia-postpartum-hemorrhage-safety/546889002/ and (more recent) https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/deadly-deliveries/2018/09/19/maternal-death-rate-state-medical-deadly-deliveries/547050002/ Even in other countries, though, birthing is never 100% risk-free. 

 

I fully understand your sentiment there, but I disagree with it, because when you are saying that they should carry it to term, birth it, and then give it up, you are also telling them to accept a myriad of risks that could end in death for them. 

[HeatherMarie]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:16 PM, AugKitty said:

A lot of people figure when the baby is less than three months old it isn't bad to take it's life because it isn't an advanced life form, but think about who that baby could be. You're taking the life of a defenseless human being. I, personally, vow never to get an abortion, but I think every woman should always have the choice. Lina Marcela was a five year old who gave birth. Obviously, she wasn't ready to have a child. She couldn't have had an abortion, she was seventh months pregnant when she found out, but if she had found out earlier she surely should have. A girl of that age should never have to go under the physical stress of having a child, and neither should many other young women. But if they're physically ready for a child, I would advise them to have it and give it up for adoption or to a family member because it would be very hard to live with knowing that you killed a person before they were born.

 

I started to think about abortion when my dad told me that he'd had countless abortions. I was, of course, horrified, and an hour later I began to think more about it. It made me think about how I could have been the child that was killed. I mean, I couldn't really have been, because my mom never would have said yes to abortion, but what if I was one of the other babies? I was very sad that I'd had so many half sisters and brothers that I would never get to meet and guide through their lives.

 

I have to agree with and add to what others have said. While it's good that you agree women should have the choice, you seem to have some misconceptions about how simple that choice can be. As someone above stated, adoption is *not* a good alternative here. Not at all. Do you have any idea how many children in the adoption system are abused? Have horrid lives, are sexually and mentally and physically abused? End up committing suicide? I would *never* willfully put a child into that system, I know way too much about it to ever feel comfortable doing that. Better that a child never live in the first place then to live a life full of fear and pain and *wishing* they were dead. 

 

Also, there is no actual measurement of being 'physically ready' for a child. Perfectly healthy women die during pregnancy or childbirth. It happens a lot more then you'd think, actually. Pregnancy changes the body in so many ways, in so many *destructive* ways, there is really no way to be certain that a woman's body is 'ready' for a child or that the woman will remain healthy throughout the pregnancy. And then of course, even if the body is 'physically ready', whatever that may mean, the mind may not be. Mental health is just as important as physical health, and the woman may not have the mental stability necessary to carry the baby without deliberately putting her own life at risk. .... That's a nice way of saying, if I ever got pregnant I'd easily commit suicide because I literally am not mentally stable enough to deal with that.

 

So the decision to abort or carry to term is much more complicated then you seem to think, involving many different factors that are impossible to put a black and white line on. There is no possible way to say 'if this and this are true, then she should have the baby', because the only one who actually knows what is best for that woman is... That woman. Not me, not you, not doctors, not politicians. Only that woman. 

[relaks]

As stated, childbirth is a dangerous process for the body. If you're in a high income country, you're more likely to be okay (but as Infinis pointed, death rate during childbirth is ridiculously high in the USA for such a high-income country). But if you are not lucky enough to live in the "elite" world? Then your chances of surviving childbirth literally drop.

 

AND! Because sometimes pro-lifers seem more concerned with the embryo/fetus' rights than with the mother's (this is not pointing anyone in particular, just a thought), I'll also say that childbirth is dangerous for the baby itself.  Those are facts from the WHO (take a look).

In lower-middle countries, preterm birth complications are the 8th cause of death (this means that babies born before 37 weeks of pregnancy are more likely to die due to illness and disabilities).

In low-income countries, preterm birth complications are the 8th cause of death too. And birth asphyxia/birth trauma is the 9th cause of death.

What this means is that plenty of babies that are carried to term won't ever make it past a couple of days. 

 

Now, before anyone misinterprets my words, I'm not saying abortion is the solution for this death rates.

I'm just joining others pointing that pregnancy is not trivial. While it can be wonderful, for those who actually want to be pregnant, it causes discomfort, pathologies and even death, not only for the carrier, but also for the baby itself. Why should we force women to expose themselves to these risks ? We cannot debate this strictly from our point of view, which is privileged and biased with our access to a well developed health system (well, I can't speak for the US, but I know Spain's is pretty good all things considered). If a pregnancy is already dangerous for us, it can be lethal in plenty of countries ("99% of all maternal deaths occur in developing countries", still the WHO ). Btw, one of the reasons women in developing countries die during pregnancy is because of unsafe abortion methods. A woman who really doesn't want to carry a fetus will probably try to have a n abortion, be it legal or not. The difference is that clandestinity makes it x times more dangerous. Legality comes with regulation and more safety. And forcing a woman to give birth to a baby that has such high chances of not surviving ? That's just cruel for everyone involved.

 

 

As parting words, just to reinforce everything that's been said, and still taking info from the WHO:

 

Quote

About 830 women die from pregnancy- or childbirth-related complications around the world every day.

 

Every. Single. Day.

Edited September 21, 2018 by relaks