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Everything posted by Aviatus

  1. +1 I would really something like this, even if it were just for older or more active topics. The option to put some suggestions to bed, either with "Yes we'll do this eventually" or "No we aren't doing this and this is why" would be really nice to declutter the section and to revive some topics that have stagnated due to near-universal agreement.
  2. Just for the record, getting 1/3 as lineaged for sprite collecting works, up until the new release, you can only get two of the newly released holiday dragon, as it cannot breed the same year it is released. This means, best case scenario, you will always be missing two sprites, one christmas and one valentines, which is what my original point was.
  3. Just to throw my two cents in here. I know I'm horribly biased based on the way I play, which is essentially sprite collecting, but the current limits have never made sense to me. As it stands, because you can only get two of any christmas/valentines dragon on its release year, it is technically impossible to ever get a complete sprite collection. You'd need at least 3 to get an adult, gendered and ungendered hatchling. It just seems weird that a collection game has made it to where it's impossible to "catch 'em all" so to speak. Halloween, in my experience, made it relatively easy to secure needed eggs, and that's without a limit. I don't know if there are different drop rates to take the lack of limits into account or what, but by mid-day the competition for the new release seemed relatively lax. I would happily support a limit of at least 4, but I would also support the lifting of a limit, after all, even without a limit, you are still limited by your egg cap, which is an effective cap of 8 max.
  4. Ok, so I wanna throw in my two cents here. As I see it, the rules governing the hub are extraordinarily vague, and inconsistent, and we have pages and pages of people attesting to that. If you can read the disclaimer and intuitively create a list of dos and don'ts, great, wonderful, but evidently that isn't the case for everyone. Just using myself as an example, because I only have 2 magi's I had a habit of posting 3-4 hatchies in one trade, saying "Want: Genderswaps, PM Aviatus to seperate." In my mind this was a completely justified use of the want box, as I'm clearly stating what I want in terms of offers, while also communicating that I'm willing to seperate my hatchies if someone only wants one or two. I just learned today that this constitutes misuse, which is fine, I won't argue about it. The point is, I could have easily been banned for breaking a rule I didn't know existed, and I could only know about after reading through 35 pages of a topic on a seperate forum. If that doesn't constitute a problem, I don't know what does. The fact that so many people are independently coming up with scenarios that create gray zones in the current, one line set of rules, should be enough to tell you that there is a deal of subjectivity in what does and does not constitute misuse. While there's no set of rules you can come up with that will cover every abusive scenario, having a concrete set of guidelines that minimizes subjectivity protects the users by giving them reasonable forewarning before rule-breaking and protects mods by giving them a solid foundation to fall back on when they need to dole out punishments. Since TJ has asked what makes the current rules so unclear, I'll put it simply. Length. Having one line be the extent of your rules is not enough. As others have already demonstrated, it is possible to make cases for several of the banned forms of use, and they can be argued as legitimate under the current guidelines. Are some of those arguments pedantic? Yes. Are some of those arguments stretching? Yes. Does that matter? Not a single bit. Ambiguity is never a good thing when trying to enforce rules, and when there are varying interpretations of a single set of rules, that is a sign that the rules need to be strengthened To that end my suggestion is this, a dedicated "Trade hub Guidelines" page on site, with both general guidelines as well as a list of banned forms of communication, with examples. It's not going to be possible to make that list exhaustive, and I think most people know that, but it's a start. We can argue the specifics of the rules once we know what the rules actually are, until then, we can only throw around hypotheticals to try to find a line that, as of yet, hasn't been clearly drawn.
  5. I am lucky I stay up late. Had to drop 6 eggs, but I have 3 of each now The eggs are pretty
  6. Joining in to say yes please, switching back and forth is a pain. Maybe add it as an option and add a password protected feature where you can log other devices out just as a security precaution
  7. Roughly, yes you're right, straight out halving the timer would actually let you freeze more than what I was suggesting, so if that were implemented you won't hear me complaining. To me though, a 3-day counter is just more intuitive than a 7-day one, since Eggs hatch and hatchlings grow on 3-day timers. That is gonna be a matter of preference though so I can understand there being differences there.
  8. My initial suggestion was (4+(T*1)) dragons to freeze every 3 days. Or in plain english, you can freeze the same amount of hatchlings as your egg limit, every 3 days. That would be (at silver level) ~28 hatchlings every two weeks as opposed to 14 (Remember the DC system doesn't fit neatly into weeks so take that value with a grain of salt). So it isn't even close to the same level. By doing it this way, you allow for more freezing but prevent people who only hunt hatchlings from hunting more than those going for adults.
  9. Seeing at this was my suggestion I feel I should respond. I'm not sure where you're getting these 1 day or 6 day periods because I don't think that's been suggested at all. As for this strategy giving you less options I strongly disagree with that. Part of the beauty of a 3 day cooldown with a limit based on your egg limit is that it's really easy to plan around for people who are hunting primarily for hatchlings, while still serving as a viable option to free up slots for those who hunt both. If a new release or holiday comes around you can freeze enough to free up all of your egg slots but not enough to hunt again before other users. I just can't see nearly double the capacity to freeze (56 to 30 at the lowest level by my own math) as change for the sake of change. I do agree with you that the math in this topic seems to be largely misunderstood, and honestly I'm not sure how best to alleviate that. You're exactly right in in your analysis of the two scenarios, but you seem to miss the important note in the last sentence. For a lot of players, being able to freeze without limits isn't as important as the 16 "free" spots, a lot of players don't freeze enough to hit the limit as is, and we'd be taking away a game mechanic from them with no benefit to their playstyle.
  10. Oh..........welp.........oops? lol there goes that Idea I guess. Still, It seems like a pretty wide consensus against the idea of a freezing process so maybe what's left to discuss is what exactly the cooldown should be? Part of the reason I suggested 3 days is that 3 days is the main unit of time DC goes by, eggs hatch in 3 days, hatchlings grow up in 3 days etc, so it seems like a more natural window to plan around. Out of curiosity why do you think a week is more suitable? Oh Yes, I fully recognize I am heavily biased in this argument. Part of the reason I put that sentence in there was for full disclosure. Still, I don't think I'm alone in the way I play (others that play the same way have already posted in this thread), and we will all hit the same wall DragonLady has hit eventually. If there is a way to help these players out, without hurting or being unfair the rest of the playerbase (and that is the major key here) I see that as a good thing.
  11. Just for the Record Fuzz, I was talking about what I'd need from here on out, at the time I needed 100 more adults and ~600 more hatchlings. Right now I need 70 more adults and 587 hatchlings, that's why I said I need 6 hatchlings per adult, because that's what's left. Right now I'm waiting to hear back from a mod, for some reason I can't seem to put a poll on myself. My desktop also decided to restart while I was sleeping and deleted all the work I did yesterday, so I don't think I'm going to be doing that math after all, but once I get that poll in place I'll post again. In addition to the options I mentioned above I'll include Fuzzbuckets of (10+(2*T)) every 7 days. Anything else I missed?
  12. You're right, it works perfectly for those who play for only hatchlings and only adults, those who get a mix of both will take a bit of hit, my only question is by how much. Anyhow, it seems like a community consensus has been reached, I'll still put up the poll tomorrow as a formality but it seems clear how it will go. Just out of curiosity, is there anyone actively opposed to raising the freezing limits altogether? Or is there just discrepancy in how it's done?
  13. I think this is a misinterpretation of the tradeoff being proposed. The trade-off is you get an near-unlimited amount of freezes with the caveat being freezing no longer immediately removing a hatchling from you growing list. The result is you can freeze up to double the hatchlings that you'd be able to with the 3 day limit I proposed. As for "semi-frozen" hatchlings crowding out adults, if you're hunting in cave, that will never happen, as you'll never hit the GD limit. If you hunt in the AP, it would be the same as if you were only raising adults. You'd get GD locked after 3 broods, assuming the AP time is less than 5.5 days (which it usually is) you'll be unable to do anything after all 3 broods hatch, exactly like it would be if you were to let all the hatchlings mature. That's the real trade off, you're playing as if you're letting all your hatchlings mature, but if you so desire you get a frozen hatchling at the end of the 3 days instead of an adult. That said I can see the concern about this method lowering the amount of grown dragons that you can raise in a given period. I'm running those numbers now, though to be honest it's a lot trickier given how many variables are involved. I've abandoned Excel for this and am working with my trusty MatLAB. It's gonna take me a bit but I'll try to have those numbers ready by tomorrow. Once I do I'll update the OP with those numbers, the arguments for both proposals, and a poll. For the Poll I want to include the following options: Keep Current Freezing Limits Implement New Numerical Limit (4+(1*T Level)) every 3 days Implement New Numerical Limit (Other) (Please Comment) Implement Freezing Process with unlimited uses but hatchlings count as a GD for 3 days I don't care as long as I can freeze more Anything I'm missing there?
  14. Ok, it seems like there is a lot of confusion with the math of all this, so let me try to clear it up as best I can. Let's consider a period of 42 days, a bit long I know, but as the LCM of 3 and 14, it's the best way to compare the numerical limits. With that in mind, here are the maximum "grown dragons" using each of the 3 proposed methods (Including the current standard), again, assuming an AP time of 5.5 days, and a time-to-gender of 1.5 days. Note that it was assumed that the user starts off with an empty scroll which is why there is a slight discrepancy between Hatchlings and adults on the new limit, this is evened out in subsequent 42 day periods. What you should notice from this is that the freezing process is designed to allow you to reach the same amount of "grown dragons" no matter how you play, and this doesn't punish those that hunt primarily off of the AP. The only thing I haven't calculated is a mixed playstyle (Which I will, I'll need a bit more time though). That is the rationale behind the freezing process, it doesn't punish you for freezing, it let's you pick up double the amount of hatchlings while still being fair to those who play for adults. I'm considering starting a poll to see which option people like best, and I'll try to consolidate the arguments in the op, but I hope these charts make it easier to understand some of the arguments being put forth.
  15. So, for those who don't know, my current avatar is Ymir from the game SMITE. He became my favorite character after I started playing support, and he's a lovable huggable frost giant. Almost picked Khepri, which is another character from that game, but I fell in love with Ymir first, so it's only fair right?
  16. Ooof, this had a lot of replies while I wasn't looking. So just to clarify, the rationale behind the idea of a freezing process is that it's actually less constrictive than any kind of reasonable numerical limit. It means 0 downtime no matter how you get your eggs, where a number limit aimed at making freezing only as productive as CB hunting would result in some downtime for those who hunt on the AP. Personally speaking, I would rather have the ability to freely hunt whenever I'm not egglocked, rather than have to calculate and make sure my hunting and limit cooldown is synched (If I did my math right, you'd want to hunt for eggs just after you freeze your gendered hatchlings if you're just going for hatchlings meaning 1.5 days where you can hunt but shouldn't). I realize this is a more difficult and confusing change to try to implement, which is why I gave an example of new help text to see if I could word it well enough to be clear. In the end, if it's determined that the option of a "freezing process" is too confusing or unviable I'd still like the numerical limit I suggested. To me that option isn't so much off the table but rather a backup.
  17. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it absolutely saddens me that the Black Truffles and the Pyrovars got put in the middle of this. Not only does it breed toxicity but it makes it more difficult to try and have this conversation from an objective standpoint. Anyone who has been a part of DC for a long time could tell you that this debate isn't a new one. I took about a 6-year hiatus from DC and before I left there was a thread on the exact same topic. It makes me a bit uncomfortable to be coming back to DC and to find the same arguments happening all these years later, but if nothing else that should tell you that this topic is one people have very passionate opinions about. It is my opinion that so long as there are two separate places to put dragon concepts issues like this will arise from time to time. The spriters of dragcave are wonderfully talented and generous enough to share their gifts with us. It would be silly to say that spriters are incapable or critiquing each other's work or properly vetting incoming sprites, but if this release proves anything it's that the collective critiques of the private section and the opinions of the public forum will not always match. That's neither a failure on the part of the spriters nor a criticism of the public community, it's simply a reality. Honestly, I don't know if there is a perfect solution. I can think of good reasons for both areas to exist, but also see the problems they create. I think in the end we'll have to abandon one or the other or just accept the idea that we will occasionally have "controversial" releases such as this one.
  18. But this is my point exactly, there was a critiquing process behind the scenes and, for better or for worse, the public forum is finding issues where the private forum did not. Whether you agree with the criticisms or not, putting the art in the private section during the concept phase did not protect it from detractors, which leads me to. You will not get "nothing". Every single dragon concept undergoes public critique, the question becomes is it criticized pre or post-release. If we don't want extensive post-release criticism, which this release proves can and will happen, then the only way to curb that is to move the criticism to pre-release, aka public DR.
  19. True enough, having the creation process not be public would be faster, and likely less frustrating. However is it more frustrating to deal with the nitpicking during the request process, or deal with it after the release? The criticisms people have aren't going to disappear if DR is moved to be private, people are just going to express their issues after a dragon is released rather than before. That, in my opinion, opens the door for more toxicity than handling it beforehand
  20. Honestly I fail to see at all how removing public DR would be more productive than removing the private area. Can you elaborate on this at all? If one of the main issues with this release is that people are airing their criticisms that they couldn't express pre-release, how is the solution to effectively eliminate public pre-release criticism? I have no doubt that there is a critiquing process behind the scenes, but if we've already proven that the forum, outside the private area, can have harsh criticisms on something that has gone through the private section, putting everything behind closed doors would only open up every new release to the same kind of treatment.
  21. I think an issue with this kind of discussion is that it's nearly impossible to separate critique of a process (that being the creation and release of new dragons) with the critique of the results of the process (that being the truffles and pyrovars). It's a shame to me that these two dragons and spriters are getting caught in the middle of what ultimately is an argument about something different, but in the end if people were perfectly happy about the results of this process, they'd have little reason to complain about the process. While I personally like the sprites, particularly the truffles, I can understand why people are frustrated with the perceived double-standard. I just hope the spriters don't get too discouraged or upset by what seems to have become a very thorough, public, critiquing session and understand that the controversy is about more than these particular sprites.
  22. I honestly have no clue if people try to get specific view numbers, but it wouldn't surprise me. It'd just be simpler to stop receiving views. As an Idea for new Help Page Text Do you think this is clear enough? Olympe am I missing any part of your suggestion?
  23. I think that's just flavor text to help the user understand. It would be effectively frozen (on the coding end it might be beneficial to stop it from receiving clicks and views) but still contributes to the "growing dragon" limit until the hatchling is 3 days old. That format honestly is much more agreeable to me than a hard numerical limit. I like the idea of another symbol for visual clarity, and of course you'd need to update the help page etc. I wonder if that would mess with any of the hatcheries?
  24. My only issue with this is that you would have to be extremely careful with the amount of views your dragons get, especially if you want an ungendered hatchling, which brings me to Now this is a fantastic idea. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement (It is a fundamental change in what is meant by a growing dragon) but if done it would negate the need for limits altogether while remaining fair to even the AP players.
  25. So I know there've been a few topics on this in the past, but considering the most recent one is about 2 years old and none of them have approached this the way I'm going to try to, I thought it was time to bring up the topic again. Now this has been something that's been on my mind as I seem to be consistently hitting the freeze limit, and I recently did an inventory of my collection and I realized that based on the way I was collecting (1 adult of each gender 1 hatchling of each gender and 1 ungendered hatchling) I need to freeze about 6 hatchlings for every adult I'm going to raise from here on out. So I did what I always do when I have too much time on my hands, I did the math. I wanted to know, if I was out to only freeze hatchlings, and raise no adults, how quickly would I hit the cap? How much down time would I have? To figure this out I did the following, I considered 4 separate approaches, someone who only freezes CB gendered hatchlings, someone who only freezes CB Ungendered hatchlings, someone who freezes gendered hatchlings from AP eggs, and someone who freezes ungendered hatchlings from the AP. Furthermore I made the assumption that the average time-to-hatch for AP eggs was 1.5 days, which to be honest is probably too high, but I figured a conservative estimate would be best for my calculations. I also assumed the average time to find out the gender of a dragon was 1.5 days, of course this varies heavily but again I wanted a conservative estimate. With all that in mind, I produced the following chart. Note in this context a "brood" refers to a full set of acquired eggs. What you should notice from this table is that the amount of downtime for someone hunting for only hatchlings is a minimum of 3.5 days (Downtime meaning a period where nothing is happening on said users scroll) and can be as long as 9.5 days, which is 68% of the total time for a given freeze period. The other thing that should be noted is that this does not change at any given trophy level, and in fact the amount of "broods" you can freeze gets smaller as you gain trophy levels, meaning the proportion of your dragons that you can freeze in a given period gets smaller as you go up in trophy level. Now, there is a reason that freeze limits exist, and unless I'm mistaken, it's not so much about discouraging players from focusing on collecting hatchlings, but rather to ensure players who play this way don't get an unfair advantage by being able to hunt for eggs more often than those who raise adults. This is particularly important for players who hunt on the AP, as someone who could freeze everything would never hit that "growing dragons" cap and could hunt every 1.5 days. The only other purpose I can see the limit serving is that it prevents players from constantly camping the AP for hatchlings to be caught and frozen. With that in mind I think a better solution would be to have a lower limit on a more narrow time scale. Instead of having (10+2*trophylevel) every 14 days, would it better to have (4+1*trophylevel) every 3 days. Doing it this way allows you to directly control what the limit should be controlling, it ensures that players who freeze can't hunt more often than players that don't, without a huge amount of downtime discouraging players who wish to play this way. This approach would also serve to curb the people that hunt for hatchies on the AP, as they would not be able to pick up as many hatchlings in one sitting as before. Doing this would still result in some downtime, particularly for those who hunt from the AP, but this is necessary to ensure they can't hunt more often than other players. So with all that said what do you guys think? Is there an aspect about freezing I'm not considering? Is there maybe another way of doing this I haven't thought of?