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Severus_S

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Posts posted by Severus_S


  1. I am out of this thread as it seems I can't get my points across in a way that are understood the way I mean them to be understood...

    I won't go back on my views but I see no sense in continuing this.

    Just one more thing:

    @ Kagesora:I read Your posts in other threads with great interest, as You came across as a person who is interested in things like justice and tolerance. Seems this does not include everyone? I really have better things to do than being insulted by you.

    Good bye.. I'm done with this board.


  2. No one here is from what I can see.

     

    I think people are having issues with how he's either phrasing things or he is actually looking down at people.

     

     

     

    When you are saying things like that that makes people see you in a holier than thou attitude.

     

    I don't appreciate that Severus seems to think that if you are not on a vegan or vegetarian diet by nature you are in the wrong for being a omnivore. His post right here seems to make it sound like that if you are not one or the other and are a meat eater that they feel sorry for you and it is immoral. 

     

    I eat meat by a choice and choose not to be vegan/vegetarian. I don't need someone feeling sorry for me because I do not eat the way they do.

     

    Be a vegetarian/vegan all you want but I don't need pity over it either. I chose this life style just as others do and see nothing wrong with it just as you don't see anything wrong with yours. I'm not going to say you are either and I don't need to be pitied.

     

     

     

    Edit: I had to edit the quote as I didn't see you edited it before hand so I had the wrong one in. >_<

    I simply tried to express that I am sorry that Kagesora has issues with eating and cannot eat anything she likes or might want to try.

    THats about all I wanted to say with that sentence, nothing else.

     

    And You will have to excuse me now, ist close to 4 in the morning and I'll go to bed.

     

    ps: I'd really appreciate if You people would read what I wrote and not what You think I wrote. I did not call anyone a murderer or immoral.


  3. Irrational? Try natural--humans are not herbivores. As omnivores it's a natural desire. It's fine to make the choice to not comply with it for yourself. But never force that on others or demonize them for not having the same view. (Also never force it on a pet that's not naturally an herbivore)

     

     

     

    Basically how I see it is this: don't like/want to eat meat? That's great for you--and if we're ever dining together, I'll respect that and make sure you have something you like available to eat. Hell, if it makes you really uncomfortable to have me eat meat, I'll even try to have something else for me (though if you're not even comfortable with milk or eggs then we're gonna have a problem).

     

    Wanna demonize me because I need meat (and eggs, and dairy) to actually survive (I just can't make it on an all-vegan/vegetarian diet)? Then you can just take your holier-than-thou attitude and do something with it that I'm pretty sure I'd get a warn if I actually said what it was.

    Irrational inasmuch as its not necessary for me to survive, being - as you so kindly pointed out- an omnivore, I can perfectly survive on a vegan diet.

     

    If You for reasons of health cannot live on a vegan or vegetarian diet, I am very sorry for you and I certainly wouldn't force You to consume something that made You ill.

    I would consider that a reasonable and rational excetion.

     

     

    And now I am starting to rant:

    How the *** are you all implying I would demonize You, call You murderers and whatever???

    I am not forcing anyony not to eat meat, but I''ll be damned if I stand by and do not argue my cause in a thread that IS about vegetarianism/veganism?

     

    Its has been hinted I did not do my research and now You start about "demonizing" ??

    I am trying to argue my cause rationally and I try to back it up with links, which is more than most "meat eating supporters" here do.

    I would really ask You to show me the common courtesy of reading my posts completely and not stating I demonize You or anyone else.

    I AM ARGUING MY CAUSE - no more and no less.

     

     


  4. I'm going to have to bring up cats and orcas again. Not only is it their choice to kill or not kill mice and seals, sometimes they do not even eat it after playing with it.

     

    Humans are animals. Animals are a part of nature. Humans are a part of nature. Anything we create is a part of nature. Don't think the human species is somehow above the rest of this planet. We're all a part of nature and everything we do is a part of nature. It isn't that the lion cannot prepare the seitan, it isn't interested in it. Just like some humans are not interested in it.

     

    @ylangylang:

    Did you even know that there are already breeds of livestock that have gone extinct?

    Cats and dogs don't have a choice in that they HAVE to hunt to eat. And they play because thats how they learn to hunt. Its their instinct that tells them to.

    And no, I do most certainly not think humanity is above nature.

    And WE have a choice to prepare seitan instead of eating meat or hunting or whatever. The lion does not have a choice because its naturally "programmed" to hunt and eat meat.

    But honestly, Your line of argument doesn't have anything to do with why humans should or should not eat meat.

    Following Your argument consequently, You should not sit here arguing with me via internet and computer, but be outside and hunt for food.

    It is not really relevant for this discussion if or if not animals consume meat , hunt other animals or play with their food.

    The question is whether humans do it or not.

    I agree with you inasmuch as I consider mankind animals too, but a very highly developed kind of animal that is capable of reflecting the consequences of his behaviour on its environment.

    So we can think about what we do, why we do it and what the consequences of our actions will be.

     

    @ylangylang:

    Did you even know that there are already breeds of livestock that have gone extinct?

    Certainly I know that. Its a quite widely known fact.

    There would be no necessity for an breed to become extinct, at least not for the traditional breeds, that were not specially "created" for factory farming. I don't see why those animals couldn't be kept just to have them, look at them, like pets.

    Old races are being kept alive that way.

     

    @ tikindidragon:

    I have done my research and I'm really starting to resent the fact that obviously i am being taken for a fanatic that has no idea about anything and is simply parrotting some sentences from a pro vegan website.

    At least I have shown some links to back my arguments.

    As for Your arguement.. a "real live" farmer is very much interested to keep demand for meat stable and even better, rising, because he makes money that way to live by.

    If there were a gradually decrease in demand for animal based food, there wouldnt in all probability just not the same number of animals being "produced" .

    Less demand, less product.

    Even if I repeat myself.. I cannot see and scenario, where demand for animal products will go from 100% to 0% in such a short time to make it impossible to adapt production numbers.

     

    Furthermore - even if this might shock you - even if the need for mass culls would arise, what would be the difference for the animals being concerned? Their life would not change, only be a bit shorter, they would be killed in rather painful and horrific ways. Not much of a change for them.

    But there's one big difference: If there were mass culls because there was zero demand for meat it would be the last generation of animals that died. There wouldn't be a new generation being "produced".End of story.

    Literally billions of animals would not die anymore after that last generation that would be killed - if that would happen.

     


  5. Pretty much a summed up version of what I feel. It is horrible to see those things but it isn't just humans that do it either. All animals do.

    But how does this justify factory farming? Factory farming is not natural, if we want to talk about nature here.

    Only because someone else does something, should we do it too?

    And no, I don't think nature is cruel. Cruelty - in my book - is pretty much a human thing. Animals act out of instinct, not with the intent to hurt, or just because they CAN hurt someone or derive pleasure from it or justify it with any other argument.

    Animals don't have a choice. A lion can't prepare a nice piece of seitan for himself.. humans can. And thats why all those nature is cruel, animals do it all the time comparisons simply don't apply.

    An animal does not have the choice, a human does. We can choose to be cruel or not to be cruel.

     


  6. Just to clarify the "murder" comparison I used.

    Thats from some posts above this:

     

    But I'm also not going to swear off of meat because of it and the hypocrisy behind removing humans from nature when nature can be cruel as well is silly.

     

    So You think its hypocrisy to try and reduce suffering, helping to ensure everyone has food by going vegan? Just because "nature is cruel"?

    Hm..oh well. So I am pretty sure You have no problem with the killing of children or murder per se because, well, animals kill their young sometimes and animals kill each other?

    Honestly, thats not really an argument ;-). With that You could justify about anything.

     

    So You see, I did in no way compare meat eating people to murderers. I reacted to pudding saying it didn't matter that animals suffer because nature was cruel and thats that.

    I simply wanted to show that with that kind of "argument" You could justify just about anything like murder etc.. because .. yes murder is cruel, but nature Is cruel, so what?

     

    I hope I clarified my stance on that.


  7. Vegans and vegetarians are usually very unhealthy because they don't get the nutrients they need. My Mediterranean heritage has given me anemia. To be completely honest, no. I would not go vegan because I need to eat meat. Nearly all iron supplement vitamins I have eaten have given me a negative reaction (usually vomiting) and I passed out when I skipped eating meat. I need meat in my diet to remain healthy. Would I die without it? Maybe, I don't know if my anemia would be that serious. But I don't want to find out.

     

    I'm sorry but who is going to keep a cow in their house? Adults have enough trouble dealing with children, they don't need cows as well. And the cow isn't going to make them any money, it's just going to take it. Farm animals have become reliant on humans to live. If we go vegan, they all will perish because we won't need them any more.

     

    Morality is both a byproduct of evolution and also varies from person to person. Trying to preach your morals onto someone else is like trying to convert people to your religion. Sometimes, they just don't want to because they don't agree with you and their ideals are different. The very 'good' that you are trying to do can come off as 'bad' because you are being pushy in an area where there is not one answer. There is no good and evil in the universe. It's a fictional ideal. Let me ask you a few questions that I would like for people to answer:

    Is farm factory bad?

    Can it be improved?

    Why should people stop eating meat?

    (If applicable) Why did you stop eating meat?

     

    @ demonicvampiregirl:  pudding started those animal/human comparisons. I just went a step further as a logical consequence.

     

    As for the looking down on people thing...I mostly notice meateaters making fun of vegetarians and vegans, I surely don't look down on anyone but if people tell wrong stuff, why shouldnt I mention that?

    And if there's a discussion about vegetarianism and veganism

    To answer some of Your questions:

    Vegans and vegetarians are not usually unhealthy. quite in the contrary, they are usually healthier

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full

     

    Farm animals wont perish because they are only kept for being eaten. No carnivores--> no farm animals that rely on people.

     

     

    Is farm factory bad? Yes, definitely. Its exploitation at its worst.

    Can it be improved? Can but only gradually.

    Why should people stop eating meat? Because its healthier, it reduces greengases, it helps ensure world nutrition. (Btw Most food scandals are about meat )

    Why did you stop eating meat? Because I cant stand the tghought that a living breathing creature had to suffer through a horrible existence and a terrible death just to satisfy my irrational desire for meat . Because its healthier and it helped me lose weight.


  8. The world going vegan would not stop us needing to grow crops - indeed we would need to grow *more*, and of a greater variety requiring more attention.

     

    @Tikindi: I don't think we would have to grow more crops, because a major part of crops go into animal fodder. So lets just grow food for humans instead of food for animals and there wouldn't be a problem.

    Sorry, I don't have a link right now, but I think Jonathan Safran Foer has it somewhere in Eating Animals.

     

    also wonder wether or not you have given any thought to what would happen to all these animals if the world were to turn vegan over night (or even in a short space of time)? Farmers are not going to pay to keep things that are unprofitable. The result would be mass slaughter of cattle, pigs, sheep... any animal currently reared for use in the food industry. Or clothing industry, for that matter. The world going vegan would not result in better treatment of these animals - it would result in their extinction. I often wonder how much thought vegan campaigners have given to that.

     

    I rather doubt that the whole world would go vegan in one day. If gradually more people will go vegan over time, there will be less need to breed animals over time. There certainly wont be a large number of animals that have to be dealt with from one day to another. And becoming extinct?

    Cows, pigs, chickens becoming extinct? Anyone could keep those animals just for fun or to keep them in existence. The problem with farm animals becoming extinct are old races that were adapted to a special environment, that were far more hardy and better able to survive than modern farm factory animals that partly aren't even capable of moving normally.

     

     

     

    @ pudding: Just to remind You.. YOU were the one who started comparing humans and animals. Basically You said factory farming is ok because nature is cruel and that was that. So whats wrong with me comparing humans/animals too?

    As to that hypocrisy vs morality.. whats that supposed to mean? Everyone who tries to be moral is a hypocrite or what do You mean by that? Seems to me thats just coming back to the everpresents meat eaters pseudoargument: "But if You want to save all animals You have to to that and that and that too....."

    So You think its better to do nothing at all than starting with something? Or what did You mean by that??

    Give me a vegan diet that has the nutrients I need and whatever? Fine, I'll give it a go.

    Absolutely no problem there...but I doubt You will really try, because You wouldn't accept that it contained enough nutrients

     

    But before you try telling me about the feelings of the animals, lemme just point you towards the slums and the people living in other countries who have yet to eat today at all. Why can't we make their lives a little plushier instead of the cow's? I mean, this moral crusade everyone seems on should probably be directed at your own species first. Unless you feel more connections to a cow or a pig than you do another human.

     

    Going vegan would help those people because in general more food would be available and there would be less pollution. BUt its just the same old "argument".. there are more important problems, you should help people first, people are more important...

    Most of all going vegan helps people.

    What do You think about countries that have serious starvation problems and are still growing crops for export.. to feed animals? You really think thats ok?

     

    And no, I don't preach nor do I want too, but arguments like Yours pudding are simply not really arguments. Trying to put blame on vegans instead of taking their arguments seriously because they should in your opionion do other things, more things is no kind of discussion style.

     

    And well..I'll probably be off. NO, I am not out of arguments but i'm getting upset and thats something I don't like, bad for my psyche...

     


  9. But I'm also not going to swear off of meat because of it and the hypocrisy behind removing humans from nature when nature can be cruel as well is silly.

     

    So You think its hypocrisy to try and reduce suffering, helping to ensure everyone has food by going vegan? Just because "nature is cruel"?

    Hm..oh well. So I am pretty sure You have no problem with the killing of children or murder per se because, well, animals kill their young sometimes and animals kill each other?

    Honestly, thats not really an argument ;-). With that You could justify about anything.

     

    And I like animals, I love having pets and seeing wild animals in nature, so I'm not some sort of animal-hating sadist or anything.

     

    But whats the difference between the animals You say You love and those You eat? Pigs are way more intelligent than dogs or cats, yet they are still eaten.

     

    As an aside, I used to think buying biolgically grown would help reduce suffering.. well, it doesnt mostly. Cows and pigs mostly still end up in slaughterhouses just like factory farmed animlas and for example male chicks are often shreddered alive because they are "useless".

     

    But leaving the whole killing, hurting, animalrights aspect out of this:

    Not eating meat will effectively reduce consumption of fresh water, it does help feeding this planets population, simply because many countries will grow grains and soy as export goods that end up feeding farm animals grown for consumption.

    As far as I know about 90% of the worlds soy production end up as animal fodder.

     

    Water footprint:

    http://www.ciwf.org.uk/resources/farm_anim..._footprint.aspx

     

    Also CO2.. Most people think Co2 output is only from cars, factories and heating....

    Wrong again, an very big part Co2 is coming from animal "production".

     

    http://www.examiner.com/article/factory-fa...-climate-change

    http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/01/17-5

    http://ccafs.cgiar.org/bigfacts/global-agr...ture-emissions/

    http://www.worldwatch.org/agriculture-and-...gas-emissions-0


  10. Its not my favourite pastime, but occasionally I do some crocheting or embroidery, a bit of origami.. well , this and that. Animals made off small pearls...

    Last year I made crochet scarfs and hats for cristmas and i made a new scarf for me. Mostly though its smaller things like amigurumi or a dice bag or a handy sock. And when I am in the mood for it I'm crocheting lace.


  11.  

    Also on the topic of the father who gorges himself on meat:

    I think it's funny whenever vegetarians/vegans say they only eat vegetables because they don't want to harm living things. But plants are alive, too. xd.png And fungi, for those who also eat mushrooms. I know some say that they don't want to harm living creatures, but the meat we eat is specifically raised for consumption, so really, that's not a problem. I've never heard anyone state they were going to eat someone else's pet. xd.png Unless they were crazy.

     

    But that's somewhat unrelated...

    That is indeed very unrelated . But - as a vegan- let me tell You that right now I feel somewhat- lets say- ridiculed by Your comment.

    And yes- many vegans will tell you that they are vegan because they don't want to harm living beings. And as a vegan you will harm a lot less living beings in the form of plants than as a carnivore or omnivore, because most plants grown end up as fodder for factory farmed animals.

    So -as a vegan - You save a LOT of plants lifes.....

    And furthermore - the meat people eat is NOT raised for consumption. Animals are raised to be slaughtered - usually in a cruel way - and then they become meat. Before being meat, they are living beings... like fungi, like plants, only with a much higher developed nervous system.

     

    Everybody has to decide on his/her own whether he/she will eat meat or not but to argue that because animals are raised for consumption its not like living beings are hurt, thats a- well rather weird argumentation, especially if You argue that hurting plants is hurting living beings, too.

    So, it comes across that You don't like vegans hurting plants , but its okay that carnivores or omnivores hurt animals to eat them, because those animals are specially raised for consumption.

     


  12. In my home country we have (or had? I haven´t been living in my home country for 6 years) a magazine called BRAVO with an extra section called "Dr. Sommer" where teenagers ask questions about sexuality and stuff is explained, and you can buy it everywhere - I started to buy this magazine when I was 12/13 because I was a huge Backstreet Boys fan and it was a music magazine in first place. My best friend and I have learnt most things from it and we were talking about the articles.

    BRAVO is still around . BUt I suppose in germany its something of a rite of passage to have read BRAVO *g*

    http://www.bravo-archiv.de/home.php

    There's Bravo, Bravo Girl, Bravo Sport, a web portal, TV.....

    http://www.bravosport.de/

     

    And the Dr Sommer column is still there.

    http://www.bravo.de/dr-sommer


  13. About Wicca....I'd recommend each and every book by Scott Cunningham. He is not dogmatic at all and its not too complicated reading for beginners.

     

    My husband is a traditionally initiated Wiccan and he initiated me, but even he is very open for all traditions. At the moment I suppose we could be called norse Wiccans or maybe Wiccatru *g* if we have to be called something other than pagan.

    One might even say we are working on our own tradition, so to speak.

    (Southern german, not scandinavian)

    Works for us....


  14. I just went through the Welcome thread of a german brony forum, to get an impression, so to speak...lots of people there were strategy gaming metalheads *g*.

    This much for stereotypes about metalfans and bronies *g*


  15. Well..yes.. its REALLY weird if adults obsess over things like ponies or pixeldragons..oops...;-).

    I really think it isn't any stranger than adults playing DC or similiar things *g*.

    I suppose every fandom has its jerks, but that doesn't make a fandom bad in general.

    I would not be surprised at all if there was some DC fanfic somewhere *g*


  16. Thats terrible, I can feel with you...one of ours did last month. I still catch myself saying things like.. I could buy this for Merlin, he'd like that.

    I hope You'll get over it and can remember your good times with him.


  17. thumbsup to fuzzbucket and Tikindi, though I can understand why one gets mad at times. We all have bad days, feel stressed, have problems etc., but then, those are in most cases not the fault of people who might ask a question.

    Overall, I think the reaction should depend on the situation...

    If asked politely and with genuine interest, I really think one should answer politely, one can say "Sorry, this is not a good time to ask, please ask later or ask so and so or look at this or that website.."

    If the person is asking or saying something unacceptable, well...again it depends I think.

    At a neighbourhood get-together and elderly lady told all people proudly that for her an f2m also present would always be the little girl playing with her kid ...not funny, him being long post-op. Another neighbour told her off immediately, but in the end, the one who looked stupid, was her, because the person in question passes rather well and doesn't in the least resemble a girl anymore.

    She didn't say anything anymore, but really yelling at her or arguing wouldn't have helped at all, because she was so set in her ways.

    So, getting mad wouldn't have done anything for anyone..

     

    If a person was behaving bad intentionally, making slurs, insulting etc., he or she is - my guess at least - trying to make you mad, so by getting angry and yelling, one would do just what they wanted. Trying for a witty remark or simply ignoring would be much more helpful, IMHO, especially for your own nerves *g*.

     

    As for the whole credit to one's gender/race/whatever thing....I think we should all try to be a credit to humankind, which in my opinion inculdes trying to be the best we can. Sure, we are only human, we are not perfect and we have bad days..all of us, but we we can still try, can we?

     

    But thats only my 2 cents....

     

     


  18. Just a small..aside, so to speak, maybe lighten the mood..

    In a small chatroom - nothing social rights, trans, discrimination etc, related - I was asked by a woman who said she had nothing against gays "And who is the girl in your relationship?".

    At home infront of my pc I got mad, very mad *g*, but I managed to stay polite and asked that woman

    "Well, when You 're sleeping with Your husband..who's on top?"

    She fell silent rather quickly *g*

    I stll think it was a good answer *g*