2015-05-21 - Dragon Cave's 9th Birthday

[HeatherMarie]

Omg. They grew up!! Lookit them! Yaaay!!

 

"Hooktalon" I love that name! Love the coloring.

 

I loooove the pattern and color on the drake.

 

This "magelight" seems bigger then most of the other pygmys, so I might have to collect some after all.

[spatio]

I don't see why having larger females is causing an issue. Aren't dragons similar to dinosaurs/avians? Several raptor species have distinctly larger females.

 

now I must go play skyrim because magelight pygmies make me want to go 'splorin' in some crypts

 

As for the issues with the Drake, they don't really seem flight-capable just from appearances, but I actually really like how tanky they look. If anything, it would be the description I'd alter.

[FiveSix]

I thought the legs of the GSD looked kind of like it had turned too fast on a slippy surface :3 Not a standing pose but nothing unnatural.

[Syphoneira]

Lol, just goes to show how different perceptions are - I thought the drakes had a cute pose, made me think of a hatchling.

 

Just checked to see that the new eggs do seem to be dropping well, and hope they still will be when I can go back for another batch.

[Fiona]

I'm loving the magelights. I've got 4 pairs so far.

 

The others are fine, but it's the cutie pygmies that I like best.

[Luminar]

The name "Hooktalon" sounds really powerful and mighty! Plus their bloody red color, Hooktalons look as dangerous as they should be!

 

As to the Drake......Mmm, they do have a weird pose, but it's fine to me; after all, Nature can make everything possible.

 

But the Magelight Pygmy surprises me! In addition to their super-bright neon green color and the cute purple light on the tails, their "use" to miners are quite interesting, while the whole design of the Pygmy matches the description well.

 

Big thanks to TJ and the staff!

[Nalyua]

 

 

4) Muscle is HEAVY, and having too much will make it really really hard to fly, especially on the wings of all places. I didn't find anywhere that said these guys were flightless but if thats the case then it's fine carry on.

I took classes in anthropology, and I can say that I learned about the body from looking at how it is put together.

 

So the appearance can be indicator

 

Not sure if it's possible to include EVERYTHING into the description ^^

[misslillierose]

There is a wonderful book called "The Flight of Dragons." It puts forth an interesting theory that would make it possible for just about any dragon to fly.

 

I like all the new releases.

[Merlot]

They are all AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love them all however due to color and size my favs are the Magelights. Well done spriters and Thanks for the release TJ

lol I got a set of each the day they released and a set again today

[Isuzu]

I took classes in anthropology, and I can say that I learned about the body from looking at how it is put together.

 

So the appearance can be indicator

 

Not sure if it's possible to include EVERYTHING into the description ^^

Their descrpition does mention they can fly though:

 

In the breeding season the male attracts a mate by making loud, low-pitched bugles, followed by an aerial courtship dance to as proof of his quality as a father to her offspring.

 

Also, I think I just found a typo in their description.

[Whitefire]

There is a wonderful book called "The Flight of Dragons." It puts forth an interesting theory that would make it possible for just about any dragon to fly.

 

I like all the new releases.

lol no Warning for language in link http://f-nodragonart.tumblr.com/post/107905749001

 

That book is the last thing i would look to for a flight reference, sorry.

 

 

 

One more hour [i think] for my eggs to hatch then to hoard pygmies.

Edited May 24, 2015 by SockPuppet Strangler

[purplehaze]

Thank you again Odeen, Marri, and JOTB for the additions to the breeding pool for these dragon types. I don't think any of them are my absolute favorites of their type, but they all have great lineage potential.

 

And thanks to TJ for giving us an interestingly varied release and one that has been (mostly) stress free. Congratulations on 9 years for DC and here's hoping for many more.

[Novaclaw]

1) Just because a some other dragons have screwy anatomy doesn't mean we should be perpetuating it.

 

2) The length of the legs weren't a problem really. it's just a hella awkward pose, even if it was just standing on two legs [image] unless it walks like it has bowed legs or something which is fine.

 

 

3) Ok but it still needs the elbow membrane.

 

 

4) Muscle is HEAVY, and having too much will make it really really hard to fly, especially on the wings of all places. I didn't find anywhere that said these guys were flightless but if thats the case then it's fine carry on.

When in doubt...assume magic.

[FluffyPillow]

Thank you TJ, Odeen, Marri and JOTB for the awesome dragons! One of my Spotted Drakes has gendered! Looking forward to making a pygmy lineage, and whomever mentioned the Magelight x Pumpkin idea, that'd be an awesome combo! :3 I bet it'd look cute!

[Whitefire]

When in doubt...assume magic.

You can't use magic to just explain away everything.

[Odeen]

You can't use magic to just explain away everything.

And why not? They're dragons - they're already impossible creatures in multiple ways, native to a world that is filled with magical energy.

 

Anyway, I will definitely (and probably unsurprisingly) be working on a couple of bloodscale/hooktalon checkers, and hopefully in time I'll be able to start a magelight/pumpkin checker (alas I have no cb pumpkins!). I've loved the magelights since the first time I saw them and I'm so glad they got released ^^

[NoraNora]

Just got a second Hooktalon egg for trade (check the Dragon Trading V2 thread)

 

 

And whoever keeps removing my Anagallis from hatcheries, cut it out, it's really pissing me off.

[Tehya Faye]

And why not? They're dragons - they're already impossible creatures in multiple ways, native to a world that is filled with magical energy.

 

Anyway, I will definitely (and probably unsurprisingly) be working on a couple of bloodscale/hooktalon checkers, and hopefully in time I'll be able to start a magelight/pumpkin checker (alas I have no cb pumpkins!). I've loved the magelights since the first time I saw them and I'm so glad they got released ^^

Ditto - definitely want a Pumpkin x Magelight lineage. I also like the GSD with Howlers. I was kinda hoping for something neat to go with Day Glory Drakes, but having something with the Howlers is also really cool.

[Whitefire]

And why not? They're dragons - they're already impossible creatures in multiple ways, native to a world that is filled with magical energy.

Rather than take over this thread with this i'm going to share this since it pretty much has everything anyway.

 

 

Things are being slow to hatch e3e what i get for missing the first day OTL

Edited May 24, 2015 by Whitefire

[Pixxelation]

You can't use magic to just explain away everything.

No, you can't. But magic is necessary for any dragon on-site to fly. Literally no full-sized sprites have large enough wings to generate the lift needed to propel multi-ton animals through the air. Realistically, the only dragons that would be flying are pygmies and drakes, and maybe the few full-sized breeds that are intended to be near pygmy-sized in "real" Valkemare.

 

Some concepts are designed to be heavily reliant on mana to fly. The Desipises, for example, were intentionally given smaller-than-usual wings and the attribute that mana is a large portion of how they fly.

 

JOTB has explained why the wings appear so small on her dragon. They are folded in a way that the membrane is pulling the struts down toward the body, which causes them to appear much smaller than when fully extended. While I may not personally agree with the exclusion of propatagia in this (or any) situation--I agree that since it's necessary on functional wings, it's a good idea to try to emulate it on dragon wings so that we're as realistic as possible--please do understand that it is an intentional artistic choice for her to have left them out, and berating the artist for that choice is going to come off as disrespectful. You don't have to agree with an artist, but that does not make your opinion more valid than the artist's.

 

Actually, while I'm on that subject--a vast amount of the critique posted in this thread toward the new sprites is purely opinionated/subjective. It's important when critiquing anything to recognize clarify when your crit is opinion and not a genuine issue, especially with already completed works, or it will make the artist much less likely to consider your critique. Also, if people want artists to take their crit with weight, it's best to be respectful and try to stay positive and constructive, even when said crit is negative. It is very hard to take someone seriously when they simply seem to be bashing sprites and actually insulting the work than offering ways for it to be improved. Sugarcoating is not a great thing, but at the other pole, completely unfiltered and snide remarks are going to simply lead to the artist tuning you out, as you will come across as having malignant intentions rather than as someone who wants to provide positive and encouraging feedback toward the artist.

 

Welp, that post ended up longer than intended, but I am just very disappointed in the way people have been offering 'critique' to the artists in this thread. Lots of conflict that didn't need to happen.

Edited May 24, 2015 by PieMaster

[Syphoneira]

Lol, maybe different principles are involved regarding dragon flight which we don't simply understand?

 

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1...mblebees-to-fly

 

... According to an account at http://www.physics.org/featuredetail.asp?id=32, the story was initially circulated in German technical universities in the 1930s. Supposedly during dinner a biologist asked an aerodynamics expert about insect flight. The aerodynamicist did a few calculations and found that, according to the accepted theory of the day, bumblebees didn't generate enough lift to fly. The biologist, delighted to have a chance to show up those arrogant SOBs in the hard sciences, promptly spread the story far and wide.

 

Once he sobered up, however, the aerodynamicist surely realized what the problem was — a faulty analogy between bees and conventional fixed-wing aircraft. Bees' wings are small relative to their bodies. If an airplane were built the same way, it'd never get off the ground. But bees aren't like airplanes, they're like helicopters. Their wings work on the same principle as helicopter blades — to be precise, "reverse-pitch semirotary helicopter blades," to quote one authority. A moving airfoil, whether it's a helicopter blade or a bee wing, generates a lot more lift than a stationary one.

 

The real challenge with bees wasn't figuring out the aerodynamics but the mechanics: specifically, how bees can move their wings so fast — roughly 200 beats per second, which is 10 or 20 times the firing rate of the nervous system. The trick apparently is that the bee's wing muscles (thorax muscles, actually) don't expand and contract so much as vibrate, like a rubber band. A nerve impulse comes along and twangs the muscle, much as you might pluck a guitar string, and it vibrates the wing up and down a few times until the next impulse comes along. Cecil is sliding over a few subtleties here, but nobody ever said science for the masses was pretty.

 

— Cecil Adams

[Imzadi]

And why not? They're dragons - they're already impossible creatures in multiple ways, native to a world that is filled with magical energy.

 

Anyway, I will definitely (and probably unsurprisingly) be working on a couple of bloodscale/hooktalon checkers, and hopefully in time I'll be able to start a magelight/pumpkin checker (alas I have no cb pumpkins!). I've loved the magelights since the first time I saw them and I'm so glad they got released ^^

I can be bribed, Odeen. I do have CB pumpkins.

I think I might like the magelights with dark myst....the drakes will go with ochredrakes. My ochres have been patiently waiting, and waiting, and waiting.

[Shajana]

I really like the new adults, you Spriters did an great job on them!

 

Finally I was able to catch all of those beauties for myself and I can't wait until they will grow up on my Scroll.

[Odeen]

Well first off that's just lazy.

 

Second off, rather than take over this thread with this i'm going to share this since it pretty much has everything anyway.

 

 

Things are being slow to hatch e3e what i get for missing the first day OTL

Quoting posts on tumblr is definitely not also lazy.

 

I'm not saying that people SHOULD use magic as an answer - I certainly would not for my own work, and never have. I'm saying that they can, and are perfectly within their rights to do so, if they so desire. Every flying eastern ever made can be explained via the rule of cool, because goodness knows they can't actually fly if they don't have anything to generate lift.

 

The realm of dragon anatomy critique is a nasty mire of strongly-held opinions rather than undisputed facts, and people who will chase you down with pitchforks for coming to a different yet equally valid anatomical conclusion than they did about these fantasy creatures we all love. Once you've studied the anatomy and physiology of real animals as well as the nuances of visual art as a medium of expression and presentation, it becomes easier to tell where strict adherence to believability is required and where whimsy can be freely and liberally applied, and make judgment calls thereupon.

 

Sometimes the appropriate response is not to lampoon an artist for their choices right off, but to ask first why those choices were made. You may be surprised to find sometimes that the answer they give makes sense, open the door to explaining shortcomings where they arise, and you will be engaging with the artist and their art in a far healthier way to boot.

[Whitefire]

JOTB has explained why the wings appear so small on her dragon. They are folded in a way that the membrane is pulling the struts down toward the body, which causes them to appear much smaller than when fully extended. While I may not personally agree with the exclusion of propatagia in this (or any) situation--I agree that since it's necessary on functional wings, it's a good idea to try to emulate it on dragon wings so that we're as realistic as possible--please do understand that it is an intentional artistic choice for her to have left them out, and berating the artist for that choice is going to come off as disrespectful. You don't have to agree with an artist, but that does not make your opinion more valid than the artist's.

Personally I never said anything about the wing size but since others may have said that, aight.

 

Pretty much my only issues were with the hind leg pose and the wing elbow membrane, and the pose was explained so \ o3o /

 

Not sure where you're getting berating from, since i only made two posts generally directed to the artist. The rest is banter. But if it came off that way, sorry.

 

carry on

 

--

 

dragons here aren't even allowed to be bee size m8

and having 'insect wings' seem to be heavily frowned upon.

 

'dragon wings' are essentially bat wings*, and those exist.

*unless theyre feathered or somesuch, in which case, birds.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Whitefire