Request: No new Prize breeds, please!

[cyradis4]

We're talking possessions here, not rights. People have a right to be free. People do not have a right to demand their neighbors property. People shouldn't go around miserable and worse, making everyone else miserable because they don't have the neighbor's Mercedes. Sure, all should be free to do as they please. But your freedom shouldn't come at the expense of your neighbor. Just because you want that car doesn't mean you should be able to demand the use of it.

Ok.

 

So why is it ok for YOUR freedom to come at the expense of MINE?

 

Simply put:

When YOUR Mercedes is blocking MY driveway, when its running over MY flower beds, when the car alarm is going off EVERY SINGLE HOUR of every single night, I have the RIGHT to call the Cops on you and your Mercedes, to get a Cease and Desist order.

 

I have the freedom to seek to change the impact YOUR possession is having on me.

 

Right now, Prizes are having a nasty impact on the trading forums. So I am doing just what I did about that building alarm that was set off every other hour the entire damned night last Saturday and several times a day the preceding few weeks: I called the cops. Guess what? I haven't heard that blasted alarm ONCE since then.

 

In this case, its not the cops. Its suggestion threads to find some way to get the impact of the CB Prizes reduced enough that I can actually trade things that are not low gen prizes for nice things that are not low gen prizes.

 

C4.

[MedievalMystic]

So, in your opinion, if someone is acting confrontational, offensive, aggressive, and all-around unpleasant all over the forums, that should be called out as well?

 

But of course. And if it's me you're talking about, I'll own it. I am confrontational if I see wrongs and that's anywhere, anytime. And I can be very offensive if I don't feel the target for that deserve better, aka, if they showed bad behavior first. I am aggressive in certain circumstances. And if the people I target, people I feel deserve it, feel that's 'unpleasant' then I'm happy. And it's worth every single warning I get.

 

 

[MedievalMystic]

So why is it ok for YOUR freedom to come at the expense of MINE?

 

Because MY freedom to have the Mercedes if I won it, doesn't mean YOU get it.

 

When YOUR Mercedes is blocking MY driveway, when its running over MY flower beds, when the car alarm is going off EVERY SINGLE HOUR of every single night, I have the RIGHT to call the Cops on you and your Mercedes, to get a Cease and Desist order.

 

Yes, but MY Mercedes doesn't stop you from getting any other car. MY Mercedes doesn't stop your ability to drive something else. And MY Mercedes isn't anywhere near your yard. It's in MY yard, being enjoyed by ME. You do NOT have the right to demand a trade for your car, no matter what it is, for a Mercedes if the owner doesn't want that trade. You DO NOT have the right to call the cops on me simply because I own something YOU don't and make up BS just because you aren't happy that I have the thing. MY Mercedes is sitting in MY driveway, nice and quiet, not preventing you from doing a thing. I can't be blamed if you're hearing alarms all night when the car is just sitting there, quietly in the garage and I don't hear it.

 

And if you keep calling the cops over personal problems with the neighbor, when they aren't doing squat, then it should be you in trouble, not them forced to do for you.

Edited January 9, 2015 by MedievalMystic

[_Sin_]

I'm pretty sure a suggestion was made, but I can't for the life of me dredge up any ideas for what it'd have been called.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I've been looking and couldn't find it. Eventually will start a new one.

 

 

Back to topic: are there opinions on what should be the number of CB Prizes in the breeding pool before a new one is introduced? What about number of years?

[olympe]

Imo, that behavior should be called where it's seen, wherever that happens to be. Just because this is a suggestion thread doesn't give people free license to act badly, if indeed that's what people perceive they're doing. 

 

All of this brings to mind sporting events, like the NBA and the NFL.  I'm trying to imagine what would happen if most people in life had the same attitudes as people here after their team lost a game.  I have this vision in my mind of the losing team and it's supporters rushing the winning team and their supporters and beating the crap out of them, all screaming that the winners cheated and it's not FAIR and that beating them bloody is only right,  only doing what is absolutely  justified , because of course, the winning team deserved it because they're NOT HAPPY and it's all THEIR FAULT.  Not a nice picture...but honestly, that's what raffles, and how some people react,  feel like to me.

It is insulting and degrading to be lumped in with the few that do behave badly.

 

because its not how they were envisioned, they weren't meant to be uncommon or rares, they were created and envisioned as exclusives.

(underscores by me)

MedievalMystic]**gasp!** Don't say that word!

This made me giggle like mad.

 

Nah I like the exclusives. I mean really. People just need to coll their jets, simmer down, relax, life is too short to kill your self over not being able to get everything you want from a game you personally didn't make or plan out.

(All found here.)

 

Very nice exchange there, just making fun of everyone who doesn't like an exclusive elite in a game. Well done!

 

Heh that sounds like tons of fun to be honest. Yeah humans are not exactly very nice but heres hoping something can be done to calm them down i not hush them up a bit so we can enjoy our game~

(bold by me)

Another nice one!

 

I mean no one is telling you not to want it, but don't walk around expecting you have a right to having what you want just cuz you can't have one. really.

And another one. Nice going!

(Latest quotes found here.)

 

All of this. An increased prize pool is nice but this, this, all of this, is why the raffles are so terrible. Users who demand/expect what they want from prize owners. The fact that people think they deserve something or anything for loosing. The fact that people think they deserve something or anything because they can't have a CB. The fact that people think they deserve something or anything because they can't make lineages how they want. All of that, all of that is what ruins an otherwise fun event. its not the prize, its not the winners, its the users who think they deserve something for not winning.

I am very relieved to see that other people have noticed this kind of rotten attitude on this site. Up to now it seems to me like people with bad attitudes towards the raffle and it's prizes have been allowed to run rampant and flat out justify these types of behaviors will full immunity. I really hope that's changing and more people will stand up and express just how lousy they think that behavior really is, what a wet blanket it throws over the entire site and I really hope that the powers that be around here finally jerk a knot in some chains that should have been jerked a long time ago.

(Latest quotes found here.)

Aside from fixing winner numbers, we need to fix player attitudes of entitlement due to their losses. we need to educate the mass and let them know that the reason they can't get a shiny is because they drive potential shiny breeders away. The mass scares them, intimidates them, makes them never wanna come back.

 

Upping winner numbers wont fix user attitude. Users taking the time to bring awareness that Prize winners and owners owe them nothing and that they should be polite, not badger prize owners, not blame the raffle for the fact that they did not win and that What they want should not dictate what a prize breeder does with their baby.

Again I am not against it, I'm all for it. The more winners the merrier~! I am not for the illusion that this will be the bigger fix to all our problems when the problem is the attitude of collectors and lineage builders who hound winners.

There is really no real way to deal with that other than education of the userbase. I would like maybe some kind of mass PM a few days before raffle winners are announced where TJ or the mods remind users that harassment is against the rules, that with raffle winners soon to be announced, to please practice patience, courtesy, and understanding.

Another way to insulting everyone because of the actions of some. And quite some lashing out at the general non-winner populace.

 

Anyway, that's the kind of insulting attitude that's bothering me A LOT.

Edited January 9, 2015 by olympe

[MedievalMystic]

are there opinions on what should be the number of CB Prizes in the breeding pool before a new one is introduced?

 

Personally, I think the number of prizes given out should depend on the number of active players. If, and I don't know, this is just an example, there are 20,000 active users, 200 Prizes isn't nearly enough. 2000 Prizes wouldn't be that many based on those numbers, imo.

[Dubious]

But of course.  And if it's me you're talking about, I'll own it.  I am confrontational if I see wrongs and that's anywhere, anytime. And I can be very offensive if I don't feel the target for that deserve better, aka, if they showed bad behavior first.  I am aggressive in certain circumstances.   And if the people I target, people I feel deserve it,  feel that's 'unpleasant' then I'm happy.  And it's worth every single warning I get. 

 

What comprises 'wrong' is entirely subjective. What you perceive as 'wrong' is not necessarily shared by others. Trying to impose your particular views on the world will land you in serious trouble some day, not everyone will back down politely. I suggest you let people be people and stop trying to make everyone believe and act as you do.

 

As for this thread, complaining about others complaining is every bit as bad as what you are accusing the complainers of. In fact it is worse as it amounts to little more then trolling and name calling and creates more drama then the people complaining in the first place.

 

As for this suggestion, I am on the fence about it. While I do think that the raffles cause more issues then they solve, I also see how new rare sprites create a renewed interest and give us all something new to strive for and collect.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Dubious

[PolarVortex]

I'm in favor of new prize breeds, because I do enjoy variety and new sprites, but ONLY if the number of CB prizes of both the current prize sprites and new prize sprites are dramatically increased. If we're sticking with the current number of winners, I'd agree with this suggestion that we keep Tinsels and Shimmers only, for many years.

 

My main motivation for this is not that I want a CB prize for myself (and therefore won't be happy until I get one) but because I also see trading on DC as broken and miserable and I'd really like to see some balance returned to the DC economy. I mentioned it in another thread, but I'm perfectly happy that I'm able to collect the prize sprites fairly easily... what I don't like is that there is no real way to participate in everyday trading if you're not in to collecting low-gen prizes or CB metals. (This is why I loved the old TAE LAE because it was generally the only place to find other cool stuff that wasn't prizes!)

[cyradis4]

Because MY freedom to have the Mercedes if I won it, doesn't mean YOU get it.

 

 

 

Yes, but MY Mercedes doesn't stop you from getting any other car. MY Mercedes doesn't stop your ability to drive something else. You do NOT have the right to demand a trade your car, no matter what it is, for a Mercedes if the owner doesn't want that trade. You DO NOT have the right to call the cops on me simply because I own something YOU don't. MY Mercedes is sitting in MY driveway, nice and quiet, not preventing you from doing a thing. I can't be blamed if you're hearing alarms all night when the car is just sitting there, quietly in the garage and I don't hear it.

 

And if you keep calling the cops over personal problems with the neighbor, when they aren't doing squat, then it should be you in trouble, not them forced to do for you.

And if I don't want your Mercedes? If all I want is to live my life, and get a Subaru to park in my driveway?

 

YOUR Mercedes would be preventing me from parking MY Subaru in my driveway.

YOUR Mercedes would be preventing me from getting a good night's sleep in MY house.

YOUR Mercedes would be forcing me to repair damages to MY flowers.

 

You just do not get it, do you?

 

YES, I have every right to call the Cops on you if your alarm is disturbing the peace. Guess what? The cops sure did put a stop to that alarm!

YES, if your car is blocking my driveway, I can call the cops on you and have it towed.

YES, if your car is running over my flower beds, I can have it towed off MY property, where it will be impounded and you'll have to pay to get it back.

 

Not one of those has me TAKING your car. But it sure does have me taking action to remove your irresponsible behavior WITH said car from affecting MY life!

 

Right now, like I said, Prizes have caused many people many problems in the Trading forums, and not just those who WANT the bloody 2nd gens. Even those who aren't overly interested in trading for those Prizes have to deal with wading through the post of those that do. They have to deal with the fact that all those good things in *that* post, that had Prizes not been so dominating, would have been available to trade for, now aren't. They have to deal with the fact that in order to get what they want for *their* scroll completion goals, they have to get a blasted 2nd gen Prize. I was going no-where on several of my scroll goals (collecting CB Coppers) until I acquired a 2nd gen Prize. Guess what? Within months, I had every one I wanted.

 

C4.

[_Sin_]

Anyway, that's the kind of insulting attitude that's bothering me A LOT.

Same here. And what bothers me more is that people seem to not understand that the only way to obtain desired changes is to suggest them. Some will be accepted, some will not. But, we are lucky, TJ (unlike the owners of some other site that I keep seeing referenced and that I couldn't care less about) is open to suggestions. Latest example: he and Odeen took in consideration the reaction to the Solstices sprites situation. If we keep the suggestions and our tone polite, he considers them. On some cases he will just say no and/or close the thread. That can be expected as well.

I'm not sure how I deserve to be insulted and bullied just because I express my desire for a change, in a polite way.

[Vhale]

Personally I'd like to see pygmy, Two-headed and Drake prizes. Hell, even a dino would be fun as well as the aforementioned chicken.

 

I feel like most of the suggestions we have now are less about improving the raffle and more about people trying to increase their chances of winning. And by pouring more work into a small chance of success, it makes the disappointment sharper. Personally I thought the coal suggestion was perfect and cute, the others are eh.

 

But, if I were for this suggestion in particular, change the prizes to be gold/silver/bronze versions of the current holiday release. That way they'd be more like spriter alts. Still valuable but not overwhelming.

[Dubious]

....what bothers me more is that people seem to not understand that the only way to obtain desired changes is to suggest them. Some will be accepted, some will not.

I couldn't agree more. I think it is far preferable for people to complain and/or make suggestions for site improvement then to have people just silently leave in disgruntled droves. It shows that people actually CARE about the site enough to voice their thoughts.

 

Everyone has a right to an opinion and a right to express it politely without being attacked for it. Ultimately of course it is up to the site owner what is and isn't implemented.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Dubious

[Syphoneira]

It's not just the raffle itself that's troubling me. It's the consequence of said raffles.

 

All of a sudden, we got some new shinies - of which there were way too few back then - that were not only really good-looking and much more modern than the older ones (golds, silvers) - but also almost impossible to get. So they were highly desirable, in high demand - and too few and far between.

 

This created a situation where economy came into play. High demand combined with low production always ends up driving prices sky-high. A situation that hasn't changed much in 4 years now. Trades are still dominated by prize trades because people want these dragons. Desperately. The lower gen, the better. It also means that the rarest dragons of all - CB golds mostly - serve mostly as currency for trading for the rare prizes. As a consequence, there are more people trying to get as many CB metals as they can, increasing competition there as well as decreasing other players' ability to trade for them. Because way too many people don't want to trade away their "currency" for something but the "real thing", namely a low-gen prize.

 

To top it off, many of these desirables get traded for each other. (There's nothing per se wrong with that - but it does kind of rub it in. Like those badges saying "I bit a gold and I liked it", "I bit a silver and I liked it" or "I bit a holly and I liked it" when all three were as good as impossible to get at all and people were desperate to even get a messy, inbred gold or silver. It's like putting salt on an already open wound. It stings, whether that's intended or not. Especially if that's the kind of trades you see the most: low-gen for low gen or insane amounts of metals for prizes.)

 

So, people are already discontent to some extent. Some more, some less. Some people come up with suggestion to improve things for themselves. (Aren't all suggestions at least a bit egoistical? Sure. It doesn't mean they're bad, just that the motivation to propose them isn't usually an entirely altruistic one.) But what happens? If you do a little forum search, you can find a number of reactions after the first few supportive and/or neutral posts:

TJ eventually closing the thread because he doesn't agree. :/

(Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion because they feel that their rights are being impeded. Starting with post number 2 (Also "special" in post number 12)

(Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion because it would make their prize less special. Post number 7

(Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion because it was only suggested because people feel wrongly entitled to get everything. Post number 11

(Alleged or confirmed) CB/low-gen prize owners opposing the suggestion and calling the rest of the players a number of things in the most patronizing way possible. starting quite heavily on page 2, but also on page 5, 6, 7 (I know this one. That's the place where I finally exploded.) non-haves are greedy, post number 14

People opposing any kind of suggestion "because things are the way they are for a reason".

In all of these cases, it's the "contras" who are starting up the drama with their "nice" posts.

 

Of course, this kind of knee-jerk reaction does create drama. Eventually, these posts will get a reaction out of the other party, because it's degrading to be called things like greedy, whiny, feeling entitled to things and that we should simply just suck it up ("move on", "coll your jets" are just some of the expressions I saw) because that's the way it's meant to be. The prize winners' complaints that everybody else is inconsiderate, demanding and greedy because their inboxes get cluttered doesn't help any. Not every one of us PMs every single prize winner we know about, much less in a rude or demanding fashion. It stifles objective discussion and turns most of these threads into very hostile places.

 

If it weren't for all of that, I could easily go my merry way. But whatever suggestion, no matter how well-intended, comes up, someone always has to turn a friendly discussion thread into hostile territory by demeaning those who want to address the problems surrounding the prizes.

 

 

 

*applauds summation until palms bleed*

 

 

This should NOT be adversarial - it's supposed to be fun!

 

The CB Prizes are special because only the winners can ever have CBs, but this should not give any (seems to be only a very few, but which stick out like a sore thumb) of those among the community lucky enough to win one the feeling that they should then have political as well as apparently perpetual and ultimate trading power, or any right to continually insult the rest of the community, especially for circumstances which are created BY circumstance rather than intent, such as the typical rush for those who can offer enough, if only over time, to try for slow-moving, fast-closing lists which pack inboxes - which overwhelms people who've won a Prize simply BECAUSE of the extreme scarcity creating the rush of the many hopeful traders to the very few CB owners in the first place.

 

We need to start working together, so far as any large disparate group can, in a polite and civilized fashion, to work on suggestions which could potentially alleviate at least the worst of the issues, from which virtually ALL parties suffer.

 

Obviously, not everyone can be completely suited, but anything that we can make better for the overall community will help us all.

 

 

Many of us come here to get away from RL, relax and enjoy ourselves, catching/trading/gifting dragons, so that we can, if sometimes rather eventually, collect the ones we want.

 

A lot of us like and became addicted to DC in great part because it's not a competitive site where we're 'beating' each other, simply one where, typically, the 1st click gets the dragon of choice.

 

There seem to be plenty of other game sites with winners requiring losers, with hyper-rare exclusives and challenges demanding fast systems and reflexes and a more ruthless attitude for those with competitive leanings, but DC supplies a different niche for those of us who find this unappealing or otherwise unsuitable, and we hate to see that change and leave us with what appears to be little other choice.

 

But we assuredly do not come here in the hope of being insulted or of not being able to get what we want/need with reasonable time and effort involved, that being the sort of thing we're here to get away from, in our often too-challenging and stressful real lives.

 

 

It would certainly help if people would stop projecting their own feelings onto others in mass accusations.

 

Most of us, knowing the odds, do not expect to win CB Prizes and I suspect that very few are motivated by spite; those continually ascribing such to others may be revealing more about their own inner workings than they'd be comfortable in realizing.

 

 

One of the best things about the distribution method of the Raffle was that eggs were presented randomly within the community

 

in a manner where obtaining something very special was not dependent on being able to afford a fast computer/connection, or having any great speed or skill

 

- those with health/age related issues or disabilities having just as great (or, more accurately, as little, lol) a chance as any, aside from the first year when selections of a subjective best (wonderful choices, but among so many - who could say which was 'best' of the top few hundred or thousand?) were somehow made from among an estimated 8000 to 10,000 artistic entries, going by posts made where it was said that some had apparently counted these.

 

It seems exceedingly ironic that this lovely idea has turned into something spoiling the site experience for many and creating so much acrimony...

 

And unless and until this situation has been improved, as much as I'd love to see new sprites, I'm stuck having to go with the 'please, no' group, many of whom seem to be following the same reasoning for the same reasons - without massive increases in all CB Prize sprites and better production among them, a new shiny Prize would be disastrous.

[MedievalMystic]

I feel like most of the suggestions we have now are less about improving the raffle and more about people trying to increase their chances of winning.

 

I agree. But I also see the Prize pool as way too small. Maybe increasing the chance to win and people knowing they had a much better chance to win, would eliminate a lot of the negativity, please God, and chill people out.

[_Z_]

Closed until Help mods can deal with all the reports on this topic.