Request: No new Prize breeds, please!

[redwolf]

I'd also like to point out, in regards to the idea of making them HMs, I didnt even know there were raffles going on until I saw the sprite of a prize in someone's sig weeks after the raffle. I still have no idea where/what the raffles are all about. The prize dragons are beautiful. Do I want a nice one? Of course. Do I love my messy bronze tinsels? Of course. But if I wanted to get more, I would have to either beg someone or pray to the good spirits for a gift. Neither are very likely. So if I wanted to try my hand at a raffle, I couldnt. Even after I found out about the raffle, I was never able to find out about the next one(s) or anything at all until after the fact, and I've been fairly active on DC for a while now. The only raffle I've known about was the snow fort one.

 

So while the idea of making them HMs is awesome, what about the people who are never able to find or participate in the raffles? Are they supposed to just be SOL?

[DarkEternity]

I have never thought of Pokemon as an exclusive game other than the amount of money needed to buy it.

 

Ninty would need it to appear simultaneously achievable but grindy in order to sell it. Unlike DC, they've gone further and actually taken steps to reduce the exclusivity of certain things - no doubt due to irritated fans. Such examples include the flawless IV Pokemon. A vast variety of breeding improvements allow that goal to be achieved much more easily. Another example - flawless EV Pokemon - game items to make this easier. And through the Masuda method, Shiny Pokemon stop becoming unobtainable and more of them enter the market.

 

Exclusivity does occur in Pokemon, but the fact that Pokemon fansites need an event DATABASE with about 50 different categories shows that events are HIGHLY varied in distribution, EXTREMELY frequent and rather than being limited to a couple hundred of winners, they are limited to ENTIRE countries.

Edited February 21, 2014 by DarkEternity

[hazeh]

I think we can move past the Pokemon analogy; it was meant as a partial comparison, not a parallel.

 

 

That being said, I don't think there's a chance for them to be released normally in the cave.

[AnanoKimi]

I'd also like to point out, in regards to the idea of making them HMs, I didnt even know there were raffles going on until I saw the sprite of a prize in someone's sig weeks after the raffle. I still have no idea where/what the raffles are all about. The prize dragons are beautiful. Do I want a nice one? Of course. Do I love my messy bronze tinsels? Of course. But if I wanted to get more, I would have to either beg someone or pray to the good spirits for a gift. Neither are very likely. So if I wanted to try my hand at a raffle, I couldnt. Even after I found out about the raffle, I was never able to find out about the next one(s) or anything at all until after the fact, and I've been fairly active on DC for a while now. The only raffle I've known about was the snow fort one.

 

So while the idea of making them HMs is awesome, what about the people who are never able to find or participate in the raffles? Are they supposed to just be SOL?

Well that is why having them HM would work to a decent point. Most people who don't participate are usually new, they have no idea of the way DC works (or so I would assume)

 

1st-3rd prize winners are usually a small select few and HMs tend to make that up by a bit. So for example this last raffle went like this

 

10 eastern/western 1st place winners

20 eastern/western 2nd place winners

30 easter/western 3rd place winners

30 Honorable mentions

 

if past prizes are placed as HM the number of people available for HM could have a possibility to increase and next raffle could even look like this

 

10 1st place winners

20 2nd place winners

30 3rd place winners

40 Honorable Mentions

 

with the pool of Honorable mentions increased, there is a higher possibility of winners, a higher possibility of those who want a tinsel or shimmer to get one, thus increasing the pool of breeders by some degree.

 

thats 100 possible winners, our I would say between 500-1,000 people. There is a large pool of people who would pay attention, know, and participation is still high. So long as at least 100 people participate there will be a high chance of Tinsels and Shimmers being obtained.

 

if out of the 40 HM winners, 10-15 get any variation of the tinsel, then thats 10-15 more to the pool. If raffles happen anywhere between 2-3 times within the year, thats 20-30 or 30-45 more tinsels into the pool every year still as prize dragons.

 

Any new dragons released can be left as prizes for 1-3 years straight to allow for decent distribution so as to not flood Honorable Mentions with a ton of dragons to pick from. lets say 3 years down the line of giving new prizes and tinsels/shimmers as HMs, Tinsels are retired and the new prize dragons are set as HMs and the cycle continues. This means with at the minimum 2 raffles a year with 10-15 out of 40 HM picks being tinsels/shimmers, that's 20-30 per year for at a minimum of 2 years with this distribution equals to 40-60 new tinsels into the breeding pool.

 

If breeding is improved, this heightens the chance of new 2nd gen prize babies available to other DC members. We're not making them dirt common but making them decently available. This is all estimates though. We could have less that 10-15 HM tinsels picks, or more than 10-15 HM tinsel picks. The bigger the HM pool of winners, the higher the possibility, the happier people are.

 

So in a simpler break down:

 

-Tinsels/Shimmers retired to HM

-HM Winner pool increases reasonably (10-20+ more winners)

-New prize dragons released in place of current Tinsel/Shimmer

-2 Raffles per year minimum

-2 years straight of raffles with new prize dragons.

-Higher pool of HM winners = (possible) Higher pool of tinsel/shimmers available to breed.

-Breeding ratio improved for now HM Tinsel/Shimmers.

-Better breeding ratio = (possible) Rise in 2nd gen prize offspring

-After 2 years new prize retired to HM

-Tinsel/Shimmers retired from the cave entirely to make room for new HM Prize.

-New Prize is released

-Cycle continues.

 

If this does happen, I would like to see raffles happen a tad more frequently, and for a bit longer (About 3 years). This way HM Tinsel/Shimmers can spread at a hopefully decent rate and new prizes can be distributed as well.

[whitebaron]

I do NOT support any plans that retire breeds. It would make the rush,to get what you want a lot worse, and breeding projects are bad enough as,it is - at least with seasonals, I can continue 9 months later.

 

Currently I can wait for reasonable/non intrusive ways to find the other 20 3g shimmers I want for my project. If I were under time constraints,,i'd have to press harder, annoying people in the process and paying even higher prices than usual. And then, i'd have to make sure I breed nothing else but them... What could have been a leisurly long term project, is suddenly stress and annoying. No thanks.

[DarkEternity]

I never really understood why prizes didn't go straight to HM so we could switch to a new lineup every year rather than dragging on and on, (yup, I'm one of those very impatient people) instead of the same prize dragon every second year.

 

I dunno, I'm merely bored of the fact that the only remotely difficult dragon to get are CB prizes. Wish we could get a new obtainable rare/metallic sprite or some kind of questing.

 

Sometimes I wish TJ'd just dump every sprite in the cave one day to see the reaction and sometimes I think that a conservative approach would be better - which'd benefit me more. Either way, these threads are more interesting than regular going ons inside the cave.

 

I think something drastic and totally random, unpredictable and interesting ought to happen. In 2010, raffle prizes were interesting and shocking, but now they're mass produced and commercialised everything has become so boring and predictable and nothing interesting ever happens outside of the PM system.

 

The release of the copper dragons was the most interesting thing that happened in a long while because all of a sudden they simply vanished and no one could explain why: causing prize dragon discussion to randomly halt.

Edited February 21, 2014 by DarkEternity

[AnanoKimi]

I do NOT support any plans that retire breeds. It would make the rush,to get what you want a lot worse, and breeding projects are bad enough as,it is - at least with seasonals, I can continue 9 months later.

 

Currently I can wait for reasonable/non intrusive ways to find the other 20 3g shimmers I want for my project. If I were under time constraints,,i'd have to press harder, annoying people in the process and paying even higher prices than usual. And then, i'd have to make sure I breed nothing else but them... What could have been a leisurly long term project, is suddenly stress and annoying. No thanks.

I highly doubt having a possible 3 years to get 2gs or even your own CB out of 2-3 raffles a year from increased HM pool would count as 'rushing'. I would understand the rush if maybe they got retired on a yearly basis, but we're speaking of a 2-3 year time frame for you to participate and maybe even win from within the top place winners which already amounts to 60 people or the HM winners which increased could be anywhere between 30-50 with my plan.

 

Retiring a breed especially prizes allows for new Prizes to take HM status without flooding HM winners with 6,9,12,15, then so on and so on colors of dragons. If we continuously dumped Prizes into HM we might have just about 9-15 different colors to pick from and 3-5 different breeds of dragons already. That's a tad overwhelming with the already existing possibility of dragons available to HM winners of almost any Cave dragon past or present available to them.

 

Seeing as we do currently have 2 breed of prizes available, we could try and at least HM every new prize twice to allow at the minimum 2 breed of prizes to be HM for the sake of popularity or demand and then retire them. Keeping them there wont improve anything, and possibly even confuse people more.

 

EDIT: I feel like that last paragraph might be confusing because I confused myself reading it but what I mean by twice is:

 

if a raffle runs for 2 years and there is an HM prize there, the current top place prize can be set to HM to accompany the current HM shiny prize. To use current dragons as an example, if Tinsels are HM and shimmers are released for the next 2-3 years in raffles, Shimmers can be set as HM alongside Tinsels to make room for PrizeDragonX. When its time for PrizeDragonX to become HM, tinsels are retired from the game and Shimmers remain HM alongside PrizeDragonX, allowing PrizeDragonY to become top place prize.

 

I hope that makes more sense .w.

Edited February 21, 2014 by AnanoKimi

[cyradis4]

AnanoKimi:

 

As I've told others in the past, I already have every single obtainable sprite. In fact, I've got 16 of just about every single breed found in the Biomes, 8 CBs of each gender and color morph. The only ones I haven't quite completed are the Golds and Coppers. For the bred onlyies, I've got over 16 of just about every single one.

 

In short: If all I collected were sprites, I'd have long since LEFT DragonCave for lack of things to do. Yes, you may see your 7th gen messy-inbred as pretty. I see it as an ugly mess regardless of how pretty each individual sprite is, because I've long since stopped collecting sprites, for the good and simple reason that I've already gotten them all.

 

I play this game by collecting lineages. I do not appreciate other people (you, in this case) telling me how to play the game. You are doing so by telling me that I should be "happy" with high gen messy dragons. I'm getting sick and tired of people doing that. I do NOT tell you to stop breeding messies, I do not complain when people play their own way by collecting messies. I do not complain about how people who only collect 2 of each sprite are keeping the ratios out of balance by not picking up blockers (I've got tons of blockers, and I pick up more on a quasi-regular basis from the AP when they are incu-hatchable, thereby helping the ratios).

 

Now, WhiteBaron is correct: The only way to build your own lineages with Prize sprites is to have low gens.

 

 

 

And for those who are saying that adding HMs is enough: I doubt it will be. All the math I've seen says that it won't be nearly enough, even coupled with a breeding rate increase. I ask you now: Provide the math that even hints that adding 3 more unobtainable sprites, relegating the current 6 sprites to HMs, won't make the situation immeasurably worst. And I warn you: While I'll happily be convinced, I do not fear math. In fact, I happen to love advanced math. Calculus, and what comes after it. I will make you defend your conclusions. I've already posted my conclusions, backed up by calculations, and the only thing I've heard against them are how different people view the different sprites (breeds vs sprites vs color morphs), which is a difference in view point. TJ collects sprites. I collect lineages. We are going to have different points of view, because of how we play the game.

 

 

What is the harm in keeping the same 6 prize sprites for several more years, and instead releasing the rares people crave into the main cave, where everyone can enjoy them? Or at least their 2nd gens, within a year. Why must there be an INCREASE in the rarity of the already UNOBTAINABLE 2nd gen prizes?

 

Until and unless TJ agrees to increase the breeding rate of CB Prizes, any discussion about "retiring" the current prizes to HM is premature. How about we convince TJ to increase the CB Prize breeding rates, and see what that does? And keep the current prizes as the only prizes UNTIL we see how the boost in the breeding rates shakes out? How obtainable 2nd gens will become depends entirely on how (IF!) TJ shifts the CB Prize breeding rates. If its only a small shift, then it won't be noticed. If its a large and obvious shift, then no one can know just how it will affect things until after its done.

 

Remember all the people for having the AP block the biomes? I don't think anyone is complaining now! Remember all the people who wanted to keep the breed limits on the Holidays? I've only seen one person complain, and they had extra holidays on their scroll, so their complaint lost a lot of its punch! Remember how people complained about Teleport? Not many complaints now.

 

tl;dr:

TJ has not agreed to increase the breeding rates of CB Prizes. Without that increase, adding 3 new Prize sprites will cause even more rifts in the userbase than the current 6 Prize sprites already here.

 

Lets keep the same 6 Prize sprites as the only Prizes, until TJ ups the breeding of CB Prizes and we can see just how much of an effect it actually has.

 

 

C4.

Edited February 21, 2014 by cyradis4

[Wahya]

After reading this thread on and off, I still don't think I have a solid opinion either way. I actually really like that there are prize dragons, and I don't mind so much that only a few people have access to them [read: CBs], though that is perhaps because I'm not insane about he current prize sprites (not that they aren't nice, because they are quite lovely, but they aren't Tsunami Wyverns :PPP I'm sure if they caught my eye more I'd be a little more miffed about not being able to get a CB). However, as a lineage builder and admirer I can definitely understand the other side of the argument when it comes to the lack of access to CBs and low gens.

 

I don't know. I guess I need to think about it a little while longer

[angelicdragonpuppy]

[...]

 

HM winners which increased could be anywhere between 30-50 with my plan.

 

Retiring a breed especially prizes allows for new Prizes to take HM status without flooding HM winners with 6,9,12,15, then so on and so on colors of dragons. If we continuously dumped Prizes into HM we might have just about 9-15 different colors to pick from and 3-5 different breeds of dragons already. That's a tad overwhelming with the already existing possibility of dragons available to HM winners of almost any Cave dragon past or present available to them.

 

[...]

30-50 HMs does squat. As I said before, people were choosing Hollies and Hybrids over Prizes already. Other people, given the choice between Tinsels / Shimmers, would likely do the same. So even if an ideal situation happened and everyone chose Tinsels / Shimmers of different colors (which, as I just said, is extremely unlikely to happen), that would be about 10 new Tinsels / Shimmers of each type for two years. So a final population of still only about a hundred and a half (in some cases, like Gold Tins / Shimmers, much less) before they were retired. In a population of thousands of players, where more join every day.

 

CB Hollies will look common in comparison. :l

 

IF Prizes bred better - IF there were more Prizes - IF low gens were more obtainable - then maybe someday I'd be on board with a new Prize. Maybe. But if the old ones are going to be retired? Lololol no will never support ever, sorry.

[Guillotine]

I do agree, C4; as mentioned, I'd greatly prefer them just being released into the cave as rares after a certain (very long term, at least compared to the site's age) time period, with the ones given out as prizes having a easily seen visual marker on the lineage and view pages. But there's enough spriter resistance to it that a massive increase in HMs (read: at least 200 more than this year's) combined with greatly boosted breeding rates, at least for CBs, and a reduced new prize rate (from every two years to, say, every four or so?) is the only compromise I can think of.

 

And as someone who's gotten the vast majority of the sprites she considers "pretty"... I, too, am more interested in lineage these days, and quite frankly the only high-gen prize lines I like are the multi-breed spiral (which, as far as I can tell, has stopped dead) and psuedo-stair from Penk. Lines like that just... don't exist, for the most part. And EGs are even harder to find. So telling me to just be content with high-gens is... rude as hell, to say the least.

 

e: OOPS HIT SND TOO EARLY

Edited February 21, 2014 by Guillotine

[AnanoKimi]

That is why most is speculation. What I posted is speculated and set as a possibility combing it with possible breeding ratio increase. I never said any of it would be perfect.

 

If TJ decided not to increase breeding ration then I would personally not like it but hey if it calms everyoe down to have the little things in the cave then why not. I just would not agree to another raffle. Not unless from the release of Tinsels/Shimmers it is clearly stated that any and all dragons won within any raffles and contests will not be exclusive, that they are not limited and will be released into the cave after x amount of years. That way people do not feel like the prize they where lucky enough to earn is a special prize. They where just the first at a new 'release'.

 

The term Prize dragon would also be a bit misleading to use. If 'prize' Dragons are given out again in raffles contests, then have them called, 'pre release' Dragons. 3 color variation of these pre release dragons and then a mass release of them into the cave. Heck you don't even have to have 3 color variation. Depending on the colors available and such of that dragon you can 3 top winners or a decent pool of just winners. No 1st or 2nd place, just winners if the dragon only has a single color.

 

Prize are Prizes

Pre-releases are Pre-releases

Prizes cannot be Pre-releases.

You can win a pre-release

But you cant win a prize to be later released.

At least in my eyes.

 

At this point I'm not speaking "Be happy with what you get" I tried giving a solution than allows prizes to run as HM for a number of years with a hope of increased breeding so that users can make more 2nd Gens and possibly even have a higher chance at a CB one which also seems to be the issue. The "Everyone should have one" entitlement mentality.

 

As I've mentioned, I'm not saying any of this to preserve any high value on my dragon in case some are thinking that. I could care less if you can offer a CB Gold or a 4th Gen Hellhorse. I can see that enough people are bothered about the lack of pretty lineages made by their own hand so the previous idea works with a hopeful push and increase in breeding ratios.

 

Like I saw someone in a similar thread to this post "Not everyone gets a Prize dragon like Not everyone at the Olympics gets a gold medal" All in all its either:

 

Keep them as prizes by allowing them higher breeding ratios for more 2nd gens, allowing them HM status for a good number of years to increase CB population, and later allow them to retired so we can have newer prize dragons

 

Or

 

Discontinue Prize dragons as an entirety, instead give away different Pre-release dragons, mass release them x amount of months/years later into the cave as rare,uncommon, or common.

 

The second you allow everyone to have the same thing without causing too much issue from the people that create lineages and they can do as they please with them. Something given to everyone is not a prize though, its a pre-release. Those are the options we have. I've seen many people posting about simply having raffles and contests for pre-releases which I'm ok with. That's fine. All in all, really, just don't call them prizes though, that's misleading if we do offer pre-releases instead.

Edited February 21, 2014 by AnanoKimi

[whitebaron]

you actually know, that this thread is about KEEPING PRIZES the way they were this year. and not about releasing them to the cave?

 

that aside, lineage building takes YEARS, if done properly and without haste. Collect the CBs or trade for second gens. breed them together, find mates that do not refuse each other, breed higher gens... all that takes time, lots of time actually.

 

If you take into consideration that getting a prize out of a prize dragon takes at least a month, and that maybe they refuse their intended mate and you need to start over again...

 

no, 2-3 years from initial release to actually getting a decent lineage done, is not much time. a friend of mine, ponytales, does this:

 

http://dragcave.net/lineage/woy7l

 

do you think, that 2 years would be even remotely enough?

 

There are many players with a lot higher goals on here than "collect every sprite" - a perfect 12g purebred is just one example. The lineage view holds 12 gens, so there will be people to try and fill them all. 4gs are easy - they take a couple of weeks. but is it really a lineage, if its just so short?

[AnanoKimi]

You do know that Majority fo the responses here, including yours if I'm not mistaken (though I very well could be and I'm fine with being corrected on that) is that it would be MUCH easier to simply have them released to the cave for like as you said, lineage breeding.

 

If it takes so long wouldn't it just be easier to catch them like golds, coppers, silvers, etc?

 

This way people can't complain with:

 

-Not enough 2nd gens

-Not enough CB to breed

-Not the right mates I want

-Not the right color Tinsel/Shimmer

 

If they become available in the cave, you can catch 2, 5, 20 if you wanted to and just make all the lineages you want. Doesn't that simply seem ideal? It seems to be for everyone else here except the prize winners. At this point I don't care. I have my Myst, Whatever happens happens, Majority opinion almost always wins, and if majority opinion is add them to the cave then whatever. Not my site, not my sprites, not my issue, I don't care.

 

Its gonna happen some how. The only way I can see them still being prizes is to have like 200-300 if not more people win them in contests so that everyone can get a tinsel/shimmer. Also that every egg that pops out of them is a tinsel/shimmer so that they can spread like mad. Yeah. Anyways, you guys tear your selves up on it. I tried giving opinions, suggestions, solutions, and meh.

 

One last note:

 

If anyone took the time to read the post, I am combining the plan with the theoretical possibility of a breeding increase, as in Prizes breed successfully more often and that their offspring have a higher chance of being a prize breed rather than the non prize parent. I mean obviously there would have to be more pushing and prodding and moving towards better breeding ratios. Yet no one seems to take that single concept into mind. Everyone keeps thinking that I'm blurting this out there with the way the current system is now. Do you know HOW MUCH that is irking me? No one either takes the time to read it fully, or simply overlooks the "If breeding ratios are increased" sentence which is there plenty of times to emphasize that this plan would REQUIRE better breeding ratios.

 

All in all do what you like with these prizes so long as the sprite artists are for it. Keep using the same gag year after year after year after year, make new ones and ignore everyone, try to make a solid plan, make them HM, all in all it doesn't concern me. Prize winner or not I don't like the thought of them being in cave available but I have no say in how this site is run, I'm just gonna shut my mouth and simply stay out of this. Do as you like.

[Sheriziya]

if a raffle runs for 2 years and there is an HM prize there, the current top place prize can be set to HM to accompany the current HM shiny prize. To use current dragons as an example, if Tinsels are HM and shimmers are released for the next 2-3 years in raffles, Shimmers can be set as HM alongside Tinsels to make room for PrizeDragonX. When its time for PrizeDragonX to become HM, tinsels are retired from the game and Shimmers remain HM alongside PrizeDragonX, allowing PrizeDragonY to become top place prize.

 

I hope that makes more sense .w.

Which is exactly the discussion which has been going on here.

 

No final conclusion in that topic, btw. In that particular we don't retire the breed, though. After four years the breed goes into the cave.

[olympe]

There's mostly off-topic on this page of the thread, which I find confusing. Isn't this about not adding additional prize dragon breeds to the game? So why is everyone here arguing about releasing prizes in the cave, upping breeding ratios, increasing the number of prizes or retiring the "older" breeds (with or without the option to offer them as HM prizes)?

[angelicdragonpuppy]

There's mostly off-topic on this page of the thread, which I find confusing. Isn't this about not adding additional prize dragon breeds to the game? So why is everyone here arguing about releasing prizes in the cave, upping breeding ratios, increasing the number of prizes or retiring the "older" breeds (with or without the option to offer them as HM prizes)?

Because many of the raffle suggestions are related to each other (which is why I'm kind of sad TJ split them...). For example, I'm dead set against new Prize breeds if the current raffle system continues, but if the number of winners / HM winners is drastically increased, or Prizes bred better, then I might be open to a new Prize several years down the line.

[cyradis4]

Yea.... I've always viewed this topic as more of an interim solution, rather than a final one. Something to put into TJ's ear, to hopefully forestall any new prize breeds until a workable solution is implemented, and has taken root. This isn't meant to be a final solution, only a stop-gap measure to keep things from getting still worst until a final solution CAN be put into place.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yea.... I've always viewed this topic as more of an interim solution, rather than a final one. Something to put into TJ's ear, to hopefully forestall any new prize breeds until a workable solution is implemented, and has taken root. This isn't meant to be a final solution, only a stop-gap measure to keep things from getting still worst until a final solution CAN be put into place.

 

Cheers!

C4.

I don't see it as interim. I would genuinely like for the prize dragons we have to be the only ones EVAH. That would mean a constantly - if slowly - increasing CB base, and loads of lovely dragons continuing to be released in the normal way. Which for me is a win win.

[cyradis4]

Lol fuzz, while I would love that, I'm also sadly aware of how unrealistic that hope probably is. The best I've ever been able to hope for is to delay new prizes for a few years, and increase the spacing between them....

 

Cheers!

C4.

[kerrikins]

There's mostly off-topic on this page of the thread, which I find confusing. Isn't this about not adding additional prize dragon breeds to the game? So why is everyone here arguing about releasing prizes in the cave, upping breeding ratios, increasing the number of prizes or retiring the "older" breeds (with or without the option to offer them as HM prizes)?

Well, some of us DON'T want prizes to just stick to shimmers and tinsels (I, for one, would like to have new prizes ongoing) but are interested in other solutions that might meet these folks halfway.

[Guillotine]

Because many of the raffle suggestions are related to each other (which is why I'm kind of sad TJ split them...). For example, I'm dead set against new Prize breeds if the current raffle system continues, but if the number of winners / HM winners is drastically increased, or Prizes bred better, then I might be open to a new Prize several years down the line.

Yeah; I can see why he did split the topics, but most of them require some form of another suggestion to work as suggested (usually the breeding-related ones, but sometimes others). And hey, as much as I like the current prizes, I'd be rather disappointed if we never got another prize breed; I think it would be more fun to have new variants released, just more infrequently and with more total HMs to keep the population from plummeting. And the "cave-release for old Prizes" thread seems less suitable for the "demote to HM, increase total HMs" suggestion than this one. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Guillotine

[AnanoKimi]

Because many of the raffle suggestions are related to each other (which is why I'm kind of sad TJ split them...). For example, I'm dead set against new Prize breeds if the current raffle system continues, but if the number of winners / HM winners is drastically increased, or Prizes bred better, then I might be open to a new Prize several years down the line.

I know I said I was done posting here but uhm I kinda wanted to point out that I kinda gave a sort of plan that included both improving breeding for prize dragons and increasing HM pool so more people win HM thus more possibility of tinsel/shimmer enthusiasts can get at a shimmer/tinsel.

 

Well that is why having them HM would work to a decent point. Most people who don't participate are usually new, they have no idea of the way DC works (or so I would assume)

 

1st-3rd prize winners are usually a small select few and HMs tend to make that up by a bit. So for example this last raffle went like this

 

10 eastern/western 1st place winners

20 eastern/western 2nd place winners

30 easter/western 3rd place winners

30 Honorable mentions

 

if past prizes are placed as HM the number of people available for HM could have a possibility to increase and next raffle could even look like this

 

10 1st place winners

20 2nd place winners

30 3rd place winners

40 Honorable Mentions

 

with the pool of Honorable mentions increased, there is a higher possibility of winners, a higher possibility of those who want a tinsel or shimmer to get one, thus increasing the pool of breeders by some degree.

 

thats 100 possible winners, our I would say between 500-1,000 people. There is a large pool of people who would pay attention, know, and participation is still high. So long as at least 100 people participate there will be a high chance of Tinsels and Shimmers being obtained.

 

if out of the 40 HM winners, 10-15 get any variation of the tinsel, then thats 10-15 more to the pool. If raffles happen anywhere between 2-3 times within the year, thats 20-30 or 30-45 more tinsels into the pool every year still as prize dragons.

 

Any new dragons released can be left as prizes for 1-3 years straight to allow for decent distribution so as to not flood Honorable Mentions with a ton of dragons to pick from. lets say 3 years down the line of giving new prizes and tinsels/shimmers as HMs, Tinsels are retired and the new prize dragons are set as HMs and the cycle continues. This means with at the minimum 2 raffles a year with 10-15 out of 40 HM picks being tinsels/shimmers, that's 20-30 per year for at a minimum of 2 years with this distribution equals to 40-60 new tinsels into the breeding pool.

 

If breeding is improved, this heightens the chance of new 2nd gen prize babies available to other DC members. We're not making them dirt common but making them decently available. This is all estimates though. We could have less that 10-15 HM tinsels picks, or more than 10-15 HM tinsel picks. The bigger the HM pool of winners, the higher the possibility, the happier people are.

 

So in a simpler break down:

 

-Tinsels/Shimmers retired to HM

-HM Winner pool increases reasonably (10-20+ more winners)

-New prize dragons released in place of current Tinsel/Shimmer

-2 Raffles per year minimum

-2 years straight of raffles with new prize dragons.

-Higher pool of HM winners = (possible) Higher pool of tinsel/shimmers available to breed.

-Breeding ratio improved for now HM Tinsel/Shimmers.

-Better breeding ratio = (possible) Rise in 2nd gen prize offspring

-After 2 years new prize retired to HM

-Tinsel/Shimmers retired from the cave entirely to make room for new HM Prize.

-New Prize is released

-Cycle continues.

 

If this does happen, I would like to see raffles happen a tad more frequently, and for a bit longer (About 3 years). This way HM Tinsel/Shimmers can spread at a hopefully decent rate and new prizes can be distributed as well.

 

Everyone, including your self (correct me if I'm wrong), said something along the lines of, "No this wont work, raising HM wont do squat" Or "No everyone MUST have one, just make them cave available" or "There is no math to prove raising HM will increase CB/2nd gen tinsels/shimmers" etc etc. I even mentioned like 2 or 3 times that we would have to improve how prizes breed for this to work but everyone still shot it down so.... yeah. Anyways gonna go stalk this from a distance now.

Edited February 23, 2014 by AnanoKimi

[Sheriziya]

@AnanoKimi: May I point out, that like I said on the other page, exactly this topic is already in discussion.

 

Per TJ's explicit request, ADP, Naruhina and I split up the the original combo suggestion (See that one here) into several suggestions which are interlinked, like C4 and ADP already stated.

 

I asked TJ NOT to split up the combo suggestion, but he specifically wants each part of the combo suggestion being discussed separately. He didn't see an "all-or-nothing package deal" as a "functional model". He wants each of the parts of the combo suggestion to be able to stand on it's own. Hmmm... Perhaps I should add that bit of info to the topics I've started, come to think of it.

 

Seen the above and trying to bring this particular back into the original topic (NO new prize breeds) please discuss your suggestions in the apropriate topic, just to make sure things don't get mixed up here. (despite what we think should be done )

For your information there are currently two suggestions for a cycle of prize breeds (they're both in the topic: Release of Prize dragons in-cave, Based on a schedule):

Suggestion 1

Adjusted suggestion (limited release of prize dragons in-cave)

 

Back on topic: I still would love to see new prize dragons, but like I said earlier, with this particular suggestion I don't know what's best. If the rotation-release cycle suggestion would be implemented, I'd defintely go for new prize dragons (well, duh ).

If not..... I kinda still wanna see new breeds of prize dragons, but there would have to be a darn good solutions to keep a good base of Shimmers and Tinsels as well.

 

I'm still in doubt about this suggestion, even after thinking about it for about two weeks.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Sheriziya

[olympe]

I think that there is at least one thing we need to know before we can actually state how feasible this suggestion to not add any more prize breeds is.

 

Will raffles still hand out "old" prize breeds? Keeping the current two breeds is as good as a necessity if future raffles will only hand out the "new" prize breed, whatever that might be. If the system TJ used for the last raffle - which handed out both current prize breeds in equal measure - is being implemented for future raffles, adding more prize breeds might be a very good idea as this would (most likely) increase the number of prizes handed out. And we'd all like that, wouldn't we?