Unfreezing

[pederino]

What if the limit of freezing and unfreezing attempts is shared, but they consume a different quantity of attempts?

 

First of all, you can freeze whatever hatchling you want, whenever you want, that will take you 1 freezing/unfreezing attempt; then, after a year or a bit more of being frozen, you can unfreeze that hatchling, but for unfreezing, the action will take 3 freeze/unfreeze attempts (you would only need to use it once, but will act as if you used freezing 3 times). This will make thinking harder for freezing and unfreezing during holidays (lets say you freeze a bunch of halloweens this year to unfreeze them next year for breeding, you will run out of freezing/unfreezing attempts fairly quick the next year and will be incapable of doing the same "trick" the next year). Of course, this is a minor thing, but is an idea you guys can work with.

[Prince_Xanthius]

I think the idea as currently hashed out is a good one (as long as unfrozens can breed). I freeze a lot of hatchlings personally, both for scroll goals and because frankly I like many of the sprites more than the adults. I think there's like 1 hatchling I would unfreeze - a CB Shadow Walker - which was my first halloween event.

 

I don't think there is any harm in allowing this as it has dealt with many of the possible abuses, and would allow people who have made mistakes, or been disadvantaged by the change in circumstance, to 'correct' it.

 

I think the previous idea is not good - we get 15 freezes per fortnight, which would be 5 unfreezes by your proposal, which is well over 100 unfreezes per year. So you'd freeze 15 hatchies over halloween, ignore them until after the next halloween (where you'd freeze 15 more new ones), then easily be able to unfreeze all of the first 15 in time for the 3rd halloween. It'd take 2 years, but hell yeah would that be exploited.

 

I'm not sure how to deal with the freezing to save a hatchie slot only to unfreeze later. I think 30 days from freezing to being able to unfreeze is adequate as a year is a long time to wait if you made a mistake, but it makes it easier to exploit, and I wouldn't want to reduce the number to 6 per year because it just seems too few to me. And you'd still be able to exploit it with 6 anyway, just with fewer hatchies. Also I like using 30-31 days as a max cool down for anything

 

I think maybe the best way to avoid that exploitation would be adding a cool down to the FREEZE feature to make the hatchie count until it would have hit 4 days. (RP: They're still very young and it takes the same length of time for their minds/bodies to settle whether they mature fully during that time or not). But I don't think that'd go down well (who am I kidding, it'd cause a HUGE stink). I freeze a lot and I know I'd find it rather annoying, especially at first, but it WOULD prevent abuse of freeze/unfreeze over the holidays. Just an idea.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Prince_Xanthius

[bbik]

Bumping, because someone mentioned it in one of the Halloween threads, but the link was not provided.

[blockEdragon]

i think a unfrozen hatchling should just be locked to your scroll and never be able to teleport

[Syphoneira]

The idea is to break the eternal youth spell and allow the hatchy to grow up, and if it instantly grows up, it's untradable.

[blockEdragon]

The idea is to break the eternal youth spell and allow the hatchy to grow up, and if it instantly grows up, it's untradable.

and to prevent abuse how about you can't unfreeze them for three weeks so you can just freeze them for a while as to carry more hatcheis, and unfreeze could have limited use (five every month seems fair)

[olympe]

Five every month - that could amount to 60 extra eggs a year. Like around Halloween, I'd sure have frozen my limit of, uh, 16 hatchlings to catch that many more. Unfortunately, most people would have done that, so I probably wouldn't have been able to get hatchie-locked in the first place... *sigh* And people could do that for each and every holiday, since 3 * 16 = 48 is way below 60.

 

That's way too much. Unfreezing shouldn't be a feature that can be abused in such a blatant way.

[blockEdragon]

Five every month - that could amount to 60 extra eggs a year. Like around Halloween, I'd sure have frozen my limit of, uh, 16 hatchlings to catch that many more. Unfortunately, most people would have done that, so I probably wouldn't have been able to get hatchie-locked in the first place... *sigh* And people could do that for each and every holiday, since 3 * 16 = 48 is way below 60.

 

That's way too much. Unfreezing shouldn't be a feature that can be abused in such a blatant way.

oh yea i guess that would be be easy to abuse

[NotBambi]

Sigh. I don't get it. There is nothing in my scroll that I would really really really want to unfreeze. But I don't understand why you guys are so concerned about what others would want to unfreeze. Live and let live. Or, live and let unfreeze. Sheesh. Sanctimonious comes to mind.

Edited November 5, 2015 by NotBambi

[Iside]

Personally I won't use this feature since I don't have any frozen hatchling I want to grow up, but I can understand people who froze the very wrong hatchie and would love to have a second chance.

 

But the action should be thought so that people couldn't abuse it.

People should not be able to - let's say - freeze 15 hatchlings during a holiday to save space and catch more holidays and then unfreeze them when they have more space.

 

I think the best solution would be

1) Only hatchlings older that a year could be unfrozen : this would work for everyone in need to unfreeze a cb Christmas / Valentine egg frozen where there was the limit of just two, for everyone in need to unfreeze a frill or a old pink and for everyone in need to fix a mistake of when they were newbies.

And will prevent people to abuse the feature during a holiday since hatchlings won't be able to unfrozen before the following holiday.

 

2) Hatchlings should instant grow up or be untradeable

[NotBambi]

People should not be able to - let's say - freeze 15 hatchlings during a holiday to save space and catch more holidays and then unfreeze them when they have more space.

Sigh. Still missing the rationale behind this. Why not? Why shouldn't people be able to freeze and unfreeze? How does that harm anybody? I've no skin in the game but I' can't figure out how you or anybody else would.

[AnanoKimi]

Sigh. Still missing the rationale behind this. Why not? Why shouldn't people be able to freeze and unfreeze? How does that harm anybody? I've no skin in the game but I' can't figure out how you or anybody else would.

The reasoning is it takes away from others trying to hunt. It allows people to over come the limits set in place for hatchlings by allowing them to freeze, get more, then unfreeze. Its sort of an abuse of the system to get more without having to take the proper time to get it done. Basically its a legal form of cheating.

 

So by setting up limits on when you can unfreeze a hatchling it ensures that everyone has the same limits and same chances to get what they want/need without abusing the system.

 

I don't mind setting up a limit for unfreezing in terms of time, but continuously se this whole "You can't unfreeze for a year" and that feels like waaay too long. I think if you reach you freeze limit you have to wait a few weeks to about a month to freeze again no? If so then why make unfreeze for a whole year? I think 30 days maybe even pushing it at 60 days should be more than enough of a deterrent to not abuse the system as well as keeping users in check about abusing it.

[NotBambi]

Bah... Remember when TJ suggested an additional egg slot for people that have been around more than one year and 3 additional hatchling slots to go with that? Instead of saying "yes, please yes", a bunch of people spent a lot of time arguing why others should not get that. No idea if that was the reason but that great suggestion did not got implemented. People around here are so busy trying to avoid others to benefit of whatever that they end damaging themselves. Whatever. I hope they are having fun, personally there is nothing I want to unfreeze in my scroll.

[Syphoneira]

Right on this page, further up, is a precis of what was already hashed out with all concerns addressed which I brought forward back in May, which I'll copy again here and which may likely wind up on the next page anyway, lol:

 

 

 

I don't Freeze myself but have long supported this, since circumstances have changed, making this Suggestion reasonable; it was initially designed in response to that change enabling members to collect breds of previous Holidays, so that people could unFreeze CB Holidays which they had thought at the time were their only chance ever for Frozen Holiday hatchies.

 

 

The following, copied from the OP, seems to me to be simple, straightforward and 'foolery-proof' - also more likely to be considered, I would think, than anything more complex.

 

There's a suggested maximum of 11 unFreezings a year, applicable only to dragons which have been Frozen a year or more previously.

 

For those who would prefer more intensive restrictions, this could be altered, in example, to every 2nd month in a 60 day CD for a maximum of 6 (if right on the ball with them) or to one every 3 months for 4 annual unFreezings of dragons which had been Frozen over a year previously - but the basics here appear to me to cover all eventuality which could potentially facilitate abuse.

 

 

The Frozen hatchie effectively wants the eternal youth spell broken so that it can at last grow up to become a real adult - and with this, you could enable that dream.

 

 

'... Summary of how the action could work with the most popular proposed limitations from cyradis4:

QUOTE

31 day scroll wide cooldown

- just like with freezing itself, you can only unfreeze so many. In this case, 1 ever 31 days seems to be a good number to address concerns of abuse. It will also make you think hard about undoing the freezing. Theoretically.

- I think if the below limit is implemented, that a more reasonable cooldown could be accepted. The idea is to prevent abuse, by people freezing to get around the hatchie limits then unfreezing for an instant adult.

- RP reason: It takes really powerful magic to un-spell a hatchie, so you need to wait a while to recover before trying it again.

 

365 day wait to unfreeze a hatchie (countdown starts from either the day it was frozen or whatever time you'd like best)

- So people can't get around the scroll limits at Holiday time, by freeze a hoard of hatchies, then unfreezing them before the next Christmas and breeding them immediately. If you have to wait 365 days till you can even unfreeze it, then you can only unfreeze one... really doesn't do you any good. Even if you can unfreeze more, if it was a hatchie or a "just bred" adult you couldn't breed it that Holiday season. This seems to be a biggie for most people, the thought that you can freeze hatchies and get more Holidays then unfreeze them before breeding the following year.

- RP reason: Freezing is a powerful spell, and it takes a full year for the hatchlings biology to settle out enough that you can safely unfreeze. Or, maybe right after you cast the spell its much stronger than it needs to be, so it takes time for it to loose a bit of its power, so you can unfreeze it.

 

Insta adult with a "just bred" date or untradeable hatchie

- I prefer insta-adult, but then it doesn't take up a hatchie spot. Lots of others seem to prefer an untradeable hatchie.

- The insta-adult with a [week-long] breeding cooldown: You don't have to add any growing timers or trade conditions or worry about ratios, and the breeding cooldown and the year wait prevents people from unfreezing and immediately breeding. Basically, keeps people from taking advantage of freezing a Holiday one year to save a hatchie spot then unfreezing and breeding the next. They could still do it, but they'd miss a full year of breeding with that dragon.

- RP wise, the breeding cooldown: the dragon just underwent an incredible change to its body, and it needs time to recover before its interested in breeding. ...

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't see why the unFrozen hatchy wouldn't instantly grow up as the spell was removed, which seems only logical. I'd think having to wait a year to unFreeze and two years for Holiday breeding would be enough' negative' for those requiring that to apply against any mistaken Freezing or potential for abuse - and the initial point was to allow people to correct a problem created by a change in circumstances, where they had no way of knowing that Freezing one of the only two CB Holidays (also diminishing in CB form with player attrition over the years) they could ever have would one day no longer be their only chance of ever having a Frozen hatchy of that sprite.

 

 

Every objection encountered to the concept has been long since answered, as can be seen in the OP, and it might be an idea for us to at least read the current and perhaps previous page/OP before bringing up the same already-repeatedly-answered objections, so as not to waste our time and energy which could then go toward more useful objectives.

 

 

Edit: had an extra word, lol.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Syphoneira

[VixenDra]

Perhaps there should be sth like freezing taking hatchie space for a while, at least for Halloweens? Not a long while, but just enought to prevent the Halloween abuse you mention?

 

BTW would it really be possible to abuse by freezing the CB Halloweens? Before eggs hatch and can be frozen, the release would have already ended! This wouldn't allow hunting, just trading and trading is a different story I think...

 

I guess that maybe if unfreezing had some reasonable scroll-wide cooldown(but not overall lifetime limit), it wouldn't serve abusing. e.g. 2 unfreezes a month? not sure what could be reasonable.

[AnanoKimi]

If its gonna be that restricted and there are that much issues with unfreezing, then why not just have it where you simply put in a request for TJ to unfreeze and grow up the hatchi of choice you froze on accident during the only 2 cb or bred holiday limit times? Like if you wanna unfreeze that CB so bad, just have TJ unfreeze that one cb and that's it.

 

I highly doubt people are constantly freezing and going "opps shouldn't have frozen that." and if they are and its something replaceable, then why not just replace it? If its something only specifically for holidays then have TJ go around and just poof those frozen hatchies to adulthood and that it?

 

Seriously, its one of those things of if you're gonna choke it with restrictions then why have it at all?

[XiziX]

If its gonna be that restricted and there are that much issues with unfreezing, then why not just have it where you simply put in a request for TJ to unfreeze and grow up the hatchi of choice you froze on accident during the only 2 cb or bred holiday limit times? Like if you wanna unfreeze that CB so bad, just have TJ unfreeze that one cb and that's it.

With how many people that play on this site, and how busy TJ is with other things. This will not work, and only clutter up and cause a giant inconvenience for him.

[AnanoKimi]

True... I'm just still really confused as to why all the restrictions... I can see why maybe 4-6 freezes every 30 days but a few freezes a year? like 1 per month kind of thing? that seems a little too crazy. Plus I don't think the potential for a buse is really as high as people try to make it seem. Also with how many holidays are being bred having a little bit for a some minor controlled hoarding. So long as unfreezes are limited per month to about 4 then I'm good.

 

Or heck if holidays is an issue for some people have the action unavailable during the week/two weeks of holiday breeding and events to stop the holiday abuse and have it available at 4-6 unfreezes per 30 days any time after that :3 that way if anyone unfreezes a holiday hatchi it only happens after holiday breeding is over.

[Vhale]

Bah... Remember when TJ suggested an additional egg slot for people that have been around more than one year and 3 additional hatchling slots to go with that? Instead of saying "yes, please yes", a bunch of people spent a lot of time arguing why others should not get that. No idea if that was the reason but that great suggestion did not got implemented. People around here are so busy trying to avoid others to benefit of whatever that they end damaging themselves. Whatever. I hope they are having fun, personally there is nothing I want to unfreeze in my scroll.

/agree

 

A lot of it has to do with spriter alt and prize alt offspring. People will shoot down any suggestion that might let 1 person get 1 more of those than they might otherwise get.

 

Last year we had a huge influx of prizes, which was supposed to help. And we had a common CB prize release. But rather than helping with 2g prize issues, it's gotten worse and is reflected in the tone of the suggestion forum.

[MaskedDeath]

I understand your (the OP's) argument and respect it to the fullest but I don't see why an "Unfreeze" option should be available. Something like this is meant to be irreversible, that's why it's called "Freeze". Adding "Unfreeze" takes the fun away from the game and becomes unnecessary.

[NotBambi]

I understand your (the OP's) argument and respect it to the fullest but I don't see why an "Unfreeze" option should be available. Something like this is meant to be irreversible, that's why it's called "Freeze". Adding "Unfreeze" takes the fun away from the game and becomes unnecessary.

I'm quite puzzled by your statement. Why should "Freeze" be irreversible? I add frozen ice to my drinks and, after a bit, I get water. Do your ice cubes behave differently?

[cyradis4]

True... I'm just still really confused as to why all the restrictions... I can see why maybe 4-6 freezes every 30 days but a few freezes a year? like 1 per month kind of thing? that seems a little too crazy. Plus I don't think the potential for a buse is really as high as people try to make it seem. Also with how many holidays are being bred having a little bit for a some minor controlled hoarding. So long as unfreezes are limited per month to about 4 then I'm good.

 

Or heck if holidays is an issue for some people have the action unavailable during the week/two weeks of holiday breeding and events to stop the holiday abuse and have it available at 4-6 unfreezes per 30 days any time after that :3 that way if anyone unfreezes a holiday hatchi it only happens after holiday breeding is over.

If the wait time to unfreeze is anything less than 1 full year, I personally WILL use it to freeze 16 bred Halloweens, then go and trade for more.

 

Now, is this a big deal? You decide. Frankly, *eyes 40 new bred Halloweens gotten through trading*, if someone wants to get extra Holidays, its not hard if you have decent trade fodder. Granted, if I could freeze / unfreeze, I'd already have more CB new Halloweens than the 16 I've currently got. I ah, had to stop trading due to hatchie lock.....

 

If the limit on unfreezing is not strong enough, then freezing WILL become a painless way to circumvent the hatchie limits.

And THAT, the circumvention of limits, is the reason why most people want strong limits on this. Also, there's a question on if TJ would go for something which was so easily used to get around said limits. He's been disinclined in the past to support such ideas (the increasing the limits is very different from *circumventing* existing limits).

 

The easiest way to do that is to have a 1 year cooldown. That long of a cooldown strongly discourages people from abusing it, and ensures that freezing is taken seriously while still providing ways to correct mistakes. A 1 year cooldown and insta adult, and there will be very little abuse.

 

And frankly? If you aren't willing to wait a full year to unfreeze something.... you are probably thinking of using it exactly as I would.... To freeze stuff when hatchie locked and keep playing.... Essentially, to circumvent the hatchie limit, which as I said... historically TJ hasn't been in favor of.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Tehya Faye]

Honestly, no matter how strict it is I probably would use it to freeze Holiday hatchies I like but don't have mates for yet. This way I could keep hunting for what I can actually use, and if I do happen to find a mate for the first hatchie later I can simply unfreeze it once I am able. I don't freeze nice lineages now because it's permanent, and if that were to change I'd be way more willing to use that action. I'm not against the suggestion, but that's something that'll happen no matter what.

 

Edit: Holiday. This would not just apply to Halloween.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[zaverxi]

If the wait time to unfreeze is anything less than 1 full year, I personally WILL use it to freeze 16 bred Halloweens, then go and trade for more.

 

Now, is this a big deal? You decide. Frankly, *eyes 40 new bred Halloweens gotten through trading*, if someone wants to get extra Holidays, its not hard if you have decent trade fodder. Granted, if I could freeze / unfreeze, I'd already have more CB new Halloweens than the 16 I've currently got. I ah, had to stop trading due to hatchie lock.....

 

If the limit on unfreezing is not strong enough, then freezing WILL become a painless way to circumvent the hatchie limits.

And THAT, the circumvention of limits, is the reason why most people want strong limits on this. Also, there's a question on if TJ would go for something which was so easily used to get around said limits. He's been disinclined in the past to support such ideas (the increasing the limits is very different from *circumventing* existing limits).

 

The easiest way to do that is to have a 1 year cooldown. That long of a cooldown strongly discourages people from abusing it, and ensures that freezing is taken seriously while still providing ways to correct mistakes. A 1 year cooldown and insta adult, and there will be very little abuse.

 

And frankly? If you aren't willing to wait a full year to unfreeze something.... you are probably thinking of using it exactly as I would.... To freeze stuff when hatchie locked and keep playing.... Essentially, to circumvent the hatchie limit, which as I said... historically TJ hasn't been in favor of.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Having to wait a year after freezing in addition to them taking up a hatchie slot when unfrozen seems adequate to me. I'm pretty sure that 90% of the dragons that will be unfrozen would be CB valentines and CB holidays, since people froze them before TJ gave us the ability to get bred ones on our scroll.

 

I have a frozen Arsani and it fills me with a billion regrets every time I see it.

 

 

Not in favor of rendering them sterile, though, since that's the whole purpose of wanting to unfreeze things.

 

I mean if people want to unfreeze old pinks and frills, have at, it's not really giving them an advantage for breeding purposes.

 

 

But yes, I also agree that unfrozen hatchlings shouldn't be tradeable. Grow up immediately or lock to the scroll. If the time left is reset to 7 days after unfreezing and the hatchling is locked to the scroll, that might make people think twice about it if it takes up one of their precious scroll slots in addition to everything else.

 

As for the ratios, frozen hatchlings are already 'removed' from the species pool, I see no reason to add them back into it. It's not much different from hatch and release after all, since they're not tradeable anyway.

 

Things I'm in favor of that have been suggested:

 

31 day cooldown (Or else set a similar limit like the freeze command has, only have it be 12 times a year or whatever)

Only available a year or longer after freezing said hatchling

Either grow up immediately or lock to scroll and reset to 7 days, taking up a hatchling slot. (Can't unfreeze if scroll locked)

[pederino]

As ananokimi said, with those many restrictions, why have it at all? We would use it only to unfreeze past regrets (old CB holidays, for example) and thats it.

And if it really hurts that much that someone gets more halloween dragons (I thought it was a "grab everything you can" kind of thing, so this would benefit the spirit of that, but it seems not), then make the freezing of a hatchling still take 1 hatchling slot for max 3 days (the time it needs to fully grow up) or a week (the time it needs to die from " views starvation"), that way neither is exploitable and we dont need to put that many restrictions in just one.