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LibbyLishly

Unfreezing

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Because people are already adding dozens of new dragons to their scrolls every month...? Seriously, I fail to see how one dragon a month is somehow going to be more harmful than the 30+ most of us are already collecting every month. Maybe not every one of those 30+ are destined to be bred, but I'd be willing to bet most people are picking up at least a handful of things they want to breed every month--which, again, would vastly outnumber the amount of frozens, even if every unfrozen thing is being bred every week (which is another unlikely).

Yes, but the ones being caught/raised/bred right now are intended to be part of the system. The ones that were previously frozen were not weighed into the consideration of the ratio system. You are failing to see the potential for how many possible adults could be added to the system on a month to month basis, that would suddenly be breeding. It wouldnt just be *your* one dragon a month... it would be a large chunk of the user base doing it at least once to try it out. Even if just 5k people decided to unfreeze one.. thats still 5k more adults suddenly in the system adding more babies to the ratios. I cant see many people unfreezing things and NOT immediately breeding them....

 

 

Its a completely different matter.

Edited by Thuban

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If the cave would have been able to function if those things had never been frozen, I'm sure it will be able to balance out eventually even if they are unfrozen.

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Another thing is that many people don't breed Holidays to Golds, since so many people can't continue the lines and don't want them even as gifts, (surprised me, lol, I'd have thought they'd like them to look at, and often have a hard time coming up with gifts I'm really happy to be able to give) and many people want to have more CB Holiday dragons specifically to breed on their Holidays to make more and otherwise may not breed them at all, or only on request for lineages which may involve any common mate.

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my quick two cents.

 

 

yes freezing should be perminate. thats the point of deciding to freeze a dragon.

 

if you want the dragon to be breedable, then just dont freeze it. if you think you might regret freezing a dragon later (like a holiday) then dont freeze it.

 

if you dont want frozen dragons on yer scroll any more, then release or kill them.

 

but the intention behind the action is to keep them perminately supended in a state of adolecents, fo the action not to be perminate defeats he prupose behind the action.

 

and equating Expunge to Freezing is apples to pears. expunge exists because there was no way to get a zombie off a users scroll. you can get a frozen dragon off a scroll, by killing or releasing it.

 

 

that said, i'd love to be able to freeze eggs. i dont freeze many things, only sprites that i think are adorible and even then only one of them. i'd love to beable to collect some of the eggs this way.

 

maybe have the freezing option for the eggs open when an egg would be APable, or make it a BSA to a cave blocker, so people dont abuse it to get a new egg slot

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If the cave would have been able to function if those things had never been frozen, I'm sure it will be able to balance out eventually even if they are unfrozen.

The cave would probably be just fine. If people want unfreezing as a thing, more power to them. I'm still failing to see any /benefit/ to the userbase as a whole that isnt already covered by the existing system that doesnt come down to pushing a specific playstyle on the entire userbase.

 

The main argument seems to be about the ability to gift "pretty" second gens out. If that was something you cared about, you shouldnt have frozen your cb. You made the choice to freeze a cb, knowing it would potentially be a forever choice, and knowing that at the time, it WAS limited. Just because you can have more than two holidays now isnt enough of a reason to allow for unfreezing. You still can /only/ have 2 cbs of those holidays. Now, the playstyle just means waiting until the following year to get those hatchys you want to freeze.

 

My arguement against unfreezing has nothing to do with me wanting to keep people from having pretties. If there were reasons /other/ than wanting to suddenly have things we felt weren't worth raising to adulthood at the time, for whatever reason.. that now have some worth to them.. I'd be ok with it.

 

Right now, I see no reason to have unfreezing. If there are reasons other than one that have /personal/ gain, I would love to hear them. Even just wanting to be able to breed to gift IS a personal gain.. because you get enjoyment out of it.

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The cave would probably be just fine. If people want unfreezing as a thing, more power to them. I'm still failing to see any /benefit/ to the userbase as a whole that isnt already covered by the existing system that doesnt come down to pushing a specific playstyle on the entire userbase.

 

The main argument seems to be about the ability to gift "pretty" second gens out. If that was something you cared about, you shouldnt have frozen your cb. You made the choice to freeze a cb, knowing it would potentially be a forever choice, and knowing that at the time, it WAS limited. Just because you can have more than two holidays now isnt enough of a reason to allow for unfreezing. You still can /only/ have 2 cbs of those holidays. Now, the playstyle just means waiting until the following year to get those hatchys you want to freeze.

 

My arguement against unfreezing has nothing to do with me wanting to keep people from having pretties. If there were reasons /other/ than wanting to suddenly have things we felt weren't worth raising to adulthood at the time, for whatever reason.. that now have some worth to them.. I'd be ok with it.

 

Right now, I see no reason to have unfreezing. If there are reasons other than one that have /personal/ gain, I would love to hear them. Even just wanting to be able to breed to gift IS a personal gain.. because you get enjoyment out of it.

 

 

 

I'm just going to repeat this part of a previous post: smile.gif

 

 

 

 

Actually, while I obviously can't speak for everyone, the purpose of this from my viewpoint and that of everyone else of whom I've heard, was to allow people to let hatchies frozen under different circumstances grow up.

 

The effects include more 2nd-gen Holidays available for others, therefore benefiting new people, among others.

 

I don't believe it was officially specified by LibbyLishy or anyone that this was meant specifically FOR new people to benefit, merely that the people unFreezing these dragons would not be the only beneficiaries.

 

 

From LibbyLishy's OP:

 

How would the ability to unfreeze, with the proposed limitations, benefit the cave?

1. Players who froze a hatchling before a rule change (i.e. the ability to collect more than 2 of past holidays) would be able to alter the freezing based on new circumstances.

2. New players and lineage collectors would benefit from having more CB/good-lineaged past breeds in the mating pool and could collect non-discontinued sprites of a lower generation.

3. The action, instead of creating an exception for a certain group as was formerly suggested, would be available to everyone.

4. More congruent RP: If we're powerful enough mages to cast a spell of eternal youth, why wouldn't we be able to lift it?

5. Unfreezing would be forced upon no one; those who have frozen hatchlings who don't want to unfreeze them wouldn't have to. One person's decision to unfreeze would in no way affect the scroll of someone who didn't want to unfreeze.

 

 

I'll add this, also from the OP:

 

Please read at least this first post before responding. I know it's long, but it will tell you EVERYTHING that has been discussed so far. Many of the concerns regarding abuse, including exploitation for trading, insta-adults, and overuse have been heavily discussed already and excellent solutions have been proposed. These ideas have been outlined in this post, which I am trying to keep updated as new ideas come in.

 

 

 

Edit: just in case this doesn't come across, this request appeared in response to altered circumstances, with inherent potential beneficial effects to other players.

 

If adjustments in response to changes are not to be made, we'll be missing opportunities to improve the playing experience for various portions of the community, and in cases where adverse effects are not likely to occur to other players, it doesn't seem logical to not consider them on the grounds that they weren't previously possible. smile.gif

 

 

Re-edit: ninja-ed by LibbyLishy, who (as usual) expressed what I was trying to say much better, lol.

 

I'd like to add that I don't personally Freeze hatchies and don't stand to gain by unFreezing the single Frozen ugly-lineaged hatchy on mine which had followed me home from the Cave and would have grown up long before I'd have been able to get it off.

 

Also that this is a collecting site and that we are here specifically for 'personal gain' - to collect whichever dragons we want.

 

I, personally, don't see a problem with making one group of people happy by adding an option of something that doesn't adversely affect the rest of us and may actually add more nicely-lineaged Holidays, to our benefit.

 

And, yes, gifting nice things people can use makes us happy, as it does the recipients, and I'd personally consider that a reason *for*, rather than one to be disregarded.

 

We PLAY DC for enjoyment, after all, lol. smile.gif

Edited by Syphoneira

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Right now, I see no reason to have unfreezing. If there are reasons other than one that have /personal/ gain, I would love to hear them. Even just wanting to be able to breed to gift IS a personal gain.. because you get enjoyment out of it.

As the OP, would you mind if I pointed out that I am not promoting this idea for personal gain - that is, I don't have the hotly contested CBs in question that would need to be unfrozen?

 

I did mention this a page or so back:

@Thuban: As a 'newer player' (okay, since 2011) who had no opportunity to catch CB Frills, Old Pinks, Hollies, Yulebucks, Snow Angels, Ribbon Dancers, Pumpkins, Marrows, 09 Valentines, Sweetlings, or Rosebuds, I do see this suggestion as helping me indirectly. Why? Because I love 2nd gens. I know I'll never get a CB of these breeds - heck, I'll never get any of the first two. But I am quite happy to get the lowest generation I possibly can of them, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that. More CBs in the mating pool, all owned by active users, is a highly desirable outcome for me. So no, I don't think that seeing this as potentially benefiting new players is a 'joke' at all.

 

So, okay, wanting to have access to more holiday second gens one could consider a greedy motive - but if you accused me of greed in this circumstance, I wouldn't deny that it would offend me. My primary interest is in allowing people to undo something they did under an entirely different set of circumstances, and I am not one of the people who would directly benefit from such an action.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that an unfreeze action is a need in the cave. It's not. If we never get a chance to unfreeze, we'll all be just fine. But the question I feel like we should be asking is whether the status quo needs to remain the status quo. To be honest, I don't think freezing needs to be permanent any more than unfreezing needs to be a possibility. It's about whether a group, however small, will get some form of benefit out of such an action, thereby enhancing the game experience for them, just as renaming and expunge did for some people, while not hurting others. And to be frank, I really don't see the ratios argument as holding any water at all with the limitations that the various people on the thread have set forth as solutions and the fact that TJ is the only one who knows what's really going on with the ratios anyway.

 

In the end: it's not like people did some terrible thing by freezing and should have to 'pay for' their actions, as if they'd robbed a bank and were going to jail. They made a decision under a certain set of parameters, and those parameters have since changed in ways they could not possibly have foreseen. Maybe this sort of discussion should have come up even before that, but it was the change that precipitated the discussion. No one would be forced to unfreeze; if you want to keep your frozen CBs, by all means, do so! It's your scroll and it's your right. But why on earth would you begrudge others the ability to unfreeze when it will in no way affect how you play your game?

Edited by LibbyLishly

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From LibbyLishy's OP:

 

How would the ability to unfreeze, with the proposed limitations, benefit the cave?

1. Players who froze a hatchling before a rule change (i.e. the ability to collect more than 2 of past holidays) would be able to alter the freezing based on new circumstances.

2. New players and lineage collectors would benefit from having more CB/good-lineaged past breeds in the mating pool and could collect non-discontinued sprites of a lower generation.

3. The action, instead of creating an exception for a certain group as was formerly suggested, would be available to everyone.

4. More congruent RP: If we're powerful enough mages to cast a spell of eternal youth, why wouldn't we be able to lift it?

5. Unfreezing would be forced upon no one; those who have frozen hatchlings who don't want to unfreeze them wouldn't have to. One person's decision to unfreeze would in no way affect the scroll of someone who didn't want to unfreeze.

 

 

I'll add this, also from the OP:

 

Please read at least this first post before responding. I know it's long, but it will tell you EVERYTHING that has been discussed so far. Many of the concerns regarding abuse, including exploitation for trading, insta-adults, and overuse have been heavily discussed already and excellent solutions have been proposed. These ideas have been outlined in this post, which I am trying to keep updated as new ideas come in.

Thank you. And there we go.

 

I'm not trying to be mean or snippy, but I've said it before; So many posts in this thread are "against unfreezing" or arguing certain points, that have *already been dealt with*. If someone actually reads the entire OP, most of those concerns have already been talked about and negated through limitations and restrictions.

 

Who this will "benefit" has also already been talked about. I've posted multiple times about the simple fact that more breedable adults means more eggs to go around. And it's a completely unfair assumption to assume that everyone wants this suggestion for personal gain. Again, I've already stated that I have no interest in lineages, so trading an unfrozen's eggs for high prices does not appeal to me. What DOES appeal to me, and my MAIN reason for supporting this suggestion, is very simple:

 

Lots of people *do* like lineages, Tinsel-fails, lineages from old CB discontinued dragons, etc. And I *want* people to have those things. If I was able to unfreeze my Frill hatchlings, my Bright Pink hatchlings, even just hatchlings of uncommons, they would ALL be going to the AP or given as GIFTS.

 

Not all of us are in this for personal benefit, and frankly I take offense to such a blanket assumption.

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Libby: I understand your motives, and I will admit that a large majority of my reactions in this thread are purely due to the things people have said in THIS thread, and other threads like it. Unfortunately, after /weeks/ of very little to no sleep, my ability to word my arguements against this are being severely limited. I know im coming off differently than im intending, and its not intentional.. but I am trying to be clear and concise in what im trying to say.

 

If you want pretty second gens, there are plenty of people out there willing to breed them for free. Even more are willing to do it cheaply, and some.. like to charge an arm and a leg just for a common, let alone the holiday breeding slot. I understand that other people value those retired and holiday breeds highly, which is why whenever anyone asks me.. I'm willing to do it for free, most of the time.

 

Old pinks, I can understand wanting the ability to unfreeze. I dont believe there was much warning on those when they were retired.. however frills we had a LOT of warning on. At least a months warning not even accounting for everything that happened here leading up to their retirement. People still chose to freeze them knowing they were disappearing. Those people who avoided the forums for whatever reason, didnt necessarily have the heads up.. and those people I feel sorry for, and would agree that unfreezing should be an option for. Its a perfectly valid reason to want unfreezing. But holidays.. I can not feel bad for the people who chose to freeze them. There is still a limit. Had limits been lifted on how many cbs you were able to own in addition to the bred ones, then I would be perfectly cool with them being unfrozen. However this isnt the case, and those frozen cbs were willingly taken out of circulation by the owners who chose to freeze them for their own scroll goals.

 

 

I'm not saying that those people are horrible for choosing to freeze what they knew would be limited at the time.. but it WAS a choice they made knowing that it was permanent. They knew those holidays were a one time thing, but made the choice for their own scroll needs. I do feel bad for them, and I can see why they would want it reversed, but they were warned it was permanent.

 

So.. at the very least I can agree that there is SOME usefulness to unfreezing, at least when it comes to the retired breeds... however I am against previous holiday cbs (and frozen cb prizes for that matter) being able to be unfrozen. My arguements against those arent enough to prevent unfreezing from happening, but the arguements Im seeing FOR it arent enough to convince me either. I know for a fact there are other people out there who agree with me.. but for their own reasons are choosing not to post.

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Lol, if you'll pardon my butting in, I think we can all understand sleep deprivation - I sometimes feel that we're overall a community of insomniacs.

 

And of course everyone has different viewpoints on various things.

 

But both circumstances and people's minds sometimes do change over time, and if there was no opportunity for choices to change with them, it would be sad - and if there might be but it was to be prevented by people unaffected by this, it would be even sadder.

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But both circumstances and people's minds sometimes do change over time, and if there was no opportunity for choices to change with them, it would be sad - and if there might be but it was to be prevented by people unaffected by this, it would be even sadder.

I am just going to address this little point, then hopefully abandon this thread until I've had some sleep:

 

Everyone has made choices they later regret in their lives. There is NOTHING that can go back and reverse those choices, but there are lessons to be learned from them. I'm sure almost everyone out there has /something/ they wish they had a magic spell to go back and reverse, however.. its just not possible. However, those choices do usually lead to some lesson learned, and those lessons affect the future choices for that person.

 

How does this related to the discussion? Holidays and cb prizes are specifically limited. People chose to freeze for whatever reason they felt was best at the time. Sure, they may regret it now, but it was a choice they made. Now that we know that we are allowed to have more of those holiday breeds, they will make different choices in how they handle their cbs. So there was a lesson learned here.

 

At least you guys got me to budge on the retired breeds tongue.gif

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I am just going to address this little point, then hopefully abandon this thread until I've had some sleep:

 

Everyone has made choices they later regret in their lives. There is NOTHING that can go back and reverse those choices, but there are lessons to be learned from them. I'm sure almost everyone out there has /something/ they wish they had a magic spell to go back and reverse, however.. its just not possible. However, those choices do usually lead to some lesson learned, and those lessons affect the future choices for that person.

 

How does this related to the discussion? Holidays and cb prizes are specifically limited. People chose to freeze for whatever reason they felt was best at the time. Sure, they may regret it now, but it was a choice they made. Now that we know that we are allowed to have more of those holiday breeds, they will make different choices in how they handle their cbs. So there was a lesson learned here.

 

At least you guys got me to budge on the retired breeds tongue.gif

Yes, we know that's how the real world works. However, this is a game, and it would be nice if games didn't have to enforce "sorry, things change and you can't do squat about it" at every turn. There's a point at which having full control of every outcome would make things boring, but I don't think the ability to regain use of something people already have worked to collect is that tipping point.

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Lol, this is why I don't lightly cast perpetual childhood spells on people in RL!

 

 

Edit: and I would add that, actually, many opportunities (some not always existing) are available for changes of decisions previously made, including - but certainly not restricted to - divorce, returns of purchases, untied fallopian tubes, liposuction, and the erasure of tracked PMs, lol.

 

Life involves a series of changing circumstances and human progress often consists of success in efforts intended to make life better, something of which I wholeheartedly approve.

 

Even if I never do remember to track PMs...

 

Edited by Syphoneira

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Everyone has made choices they later regret in their lives. There is NOTHING that can go back and reverse those choices, but there are lessons to be learned from them. I'm sure almost everyone out there has /something/ they wish they had a magic spell to go back and reverse, however.. its just not possible. However, those choices do usually lead to some lesson learned, and those lessons affect the future choices for that person.

If I wanted harsh life lessons, I wouldn't play games to relax. People really need to stop with the argument "well, real life is hard, deal with it." when this is not real life. Yes, we make choices we regret, but if there's a chance to undo them in a game, why can't it be possible? If we could just use life comparisons to justify how a certain feature can't be implemented, we'd have no dragon cave.

 

 

TL;DR: It's just a game, people

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Yes, we know that's how the real world works. However, this is a game, and it would be nice if games didn't have to enforce "sorry, things change and you can't do squat about it" at every turn. There's a point at which having full control of every outcome would make things boring, but I don't think the ability to regain use of something people already have worked to collect is that tipping point.

I worked hard to collect my golds when they had the old sprites. Wheres my option to revert the sprites I actively set out to collect to the sprites I actually liked? I dont have that option, and the option will not ever be available to me, and im forced to choose to keep them with the new sprites or release them all. I find that to be very unfair, but im forced to live with it.

 

Holidays were always limited, and new cbs are /still/ limited. Why should people suddenly have the option of new breeding stock, when they chose to freeze them knowing they were limited? This is what Im failing to understand about this suggestion. Retired breeds, sure.. large numbers of people had no warning whatsoever that they were disappearing.. but holidays have always been a one time chance. If you missed the chance, you just didnt get cbs. If you chose to freeze one.. you only had one to breed. I see no reason to "reward" people who chose to freeze them.. no matter what their reasoning was.

 

 

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I worked hard to collect my golds when they had the old sprites. Wheres my option to revert the sprites I actively set out to collect to the sprites I actually liked? I dont have that option, and the option will not ever be available to me, and im forced to choose to keep them with the new sprites or release them all. I find that to be very unfair, but im forced to live with it.

 

Holidays were always limited, and new cbs are /still/ limited. Why should people suddenly have the option of new breeding stock, when they chose to freeze them knowing they were limited? This is what Im failing to understand about this suggestion. Retired breeds, sure.. large numbers of people had no warning whatsoever that they were disappearing.. but holidays have always been a one time chance. If you missed the chance, you just didnt get cbs. If you chose to freeze one.. you only had one to breed. I see no reason to "reward" people who chose to freeze them.. no matter what their reasoning was.

The spriters of the old Golds wanted their art replaced, presumably, and never gave us the option to get it back (at least I think that's how things went down? Correct me if I'm wrong). So, yes, there are certain things that stink and can't be reversed--but in that case (and in some of the other cases), it's a matter of the artist setting their heels, and TJ having to override them to do it, which wouldn't be pretty. Here, however, there's no solid "no" to stop a chance to change things. We look for change where we can... if some good suggestions are sadly shot down due to fairly insurmountable barriers, that's not a good reason to shoot down other suggestions that don't have such barriers. Not everything being fixable doesn't mean we should avoid ever trying to fix anything.

 

Retired breeds = had no warning they would go unavailable

Holiday breeds = had no warning for over five years that they'd ever not be limited

 

I didn't freeze my Holidays because I liked the idea of giving up a limited release adult. I froze it because, for many long years, it was do that or never get a hatchling sprite of that breed. It's not "rewarding" me for freezing (seriously, how is being able to use something I already had to begin with a "reward?") it's letting me reverse a decision made under very different circumstances where I had no warning that things would change for a long time indeed. Kinda like with retired breeds.

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Old pinks, I can understand wanting the ability to unfreeze. I dont believe there was much warning on those when they were retired..

If unfreeze were an option I would use it to unfreeze my only CB pink. I thought I would have plenty of time to collect the others, otherwise I would have collected more CB's. Additionally, I had started collecting them back when the only difference between "CB" and "Bred" was the "Stolen On/Bred On" header for the date the egg joined the database, so lineages were not important back then. (I still wanted a mix of both, about five CB and five bred, just because). But at any rate, my lineaged old pinks do not have such a pretty lineage as many of my other prized dragons because that didn't MATTER back then.

(By the time the Frills came around, on the other hand, things had changed. I do wish I had more pretty-lineaged Frills, or had actually started work on my purebred plans for them rather than simply collecting all I needed to reach my 5th gen goal, but that is a different story).

But I have wished many times that I hadn't frozen that one CB pink. But oh well, I did, and there's currently nothing that can be done.

 

I'd confess, I'd also like to use it to unfreeze some CB halloween hatchlings... When the Halloweens were first released I thought I'd only get four - one of each gender of adult and one of each hatchling. My opinions on that have since changed, since I have discovered the joys of breeding projects, and I'd love to have more CB pumpkins and marrows for breeding projects.

But again, things change, life changes, and the game may or may not change to permit me to change my play style. If I can unfreeze them I will! But if I can't, I will live with it, as I have for several years already.

 

 

I have come to terms with the fact that unfreezing is currently not an option, and so whether this idea is implemented or not, I am okay. If it's implemented I will do what I stated above. If it's not I will continue to live with the results of choices I made long ago and strive to make ones I'll be more supportive of in the future.

 

I made it a point not to freeze any Christmas or Valentines dragons specifically to breed them for others. Now that we don't have limits that opens up a world of possibilities, and I'm quite happy for that change. I'm going to have some lineage project fun with that!

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Even if I never do remember to track PMs...

Set your preferences to do it automatically, dear wink.gif

 

Retired frills - we were warned - but misleadingly, so some of us thought we had longer.

 

I have come to terms with the fact that unfreezing is currently not an option, and so whether this idea is implemented or not, I am okay. <snip> If it's not I will continue to live with the results of choices I made long ago and strive to make ones I'll be more supportive of in the future.

 

This.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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"seriously, how is being able to use something I already had to begin with a "reward?" "

 

You froze something you knew was limited, to fit your own specific scroll goal. Suddenly having the ability to take a now useless sprite, and make it useful is a reward.

 

Frills we had warning on. We knew for at /least/ a month they were disappearing, but only the people who actually used the forum or chat had that warning. We didnt have news being shared directly into the cave at that time. Thats the difference here.. retired breeds werent limited to only two. They were only limited by your desire to collect them, and the room you had on your scroll. Holidays have always been (and possibly always will be) limited to two cbs.

 

I'm going to quit stating that over and over, because no matter how many times I try to clarify that specific aspect.. you and I will not agree there.

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The spriters of the old Golds wanted their art replaced, presumably, and never gave us the option to get it back (at least I think that's how things went down? Correct me if I'm wrong). So, yes, there are certain things that stink and can't be reversed--but in that case (and in some of the other cases), it's a matter of the artist setting their heels, and TJ having to override them to do it, which wouldn't be pretty.

Silvanon generally didn't mind either way if the old sprites were kept or changed. I was in complete control over the decision.

 

Let's not vilify the artists, now.

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Silvanon generally didn't mind either way if the old sprites were kept or changed. I was in complete control over the decision.

 

Let's not vilify the artists, now.

Ah, alright. I know most of the cases of replaced art were a matter of the artists wanting it removed, so I thought that might've been the case there as well.

 

Any opinions on the topic at large so far, TJ?

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I worked hard to collect my golds when they had the old sprites. Wheres my option to revert the sprites I actively set out to collect to the sprites I actually liked? I dont have that option, and the option will not ever be available to me, and im forced to choose to keep them with the new sprites or release them all. I find that to be very unfair, but im forced to live with it.

 

Holidays were always limited, and new cbs are /still/ limited. Why should people suddenly have the option of new breeding stock, when they chose to freeze them knowing they were limited? This is what Im failing to understand about this suggestion. Retired breeds, sure.. large numbers of people had no warning whatsoever that they were disappearing.. but holidays have always been a one time chance. If you missed the chance, you just didnt get cbs. If you chose to freeze one.. you only had one to breed. I see no reason to "reward" people who chose to freeze them.. no matter what their reasoning was.

 

 

I totally empathize and I wish we'd had an option to keep our beloved old Gold sprites on our scrolls and lineages, but knowing how much that still bothers me and how much I would have loved to keep my old Gold sprites helps me to understand how much options like this can mean to others.

 

 

We have a different viewpoint on this, in part because I don't think of this as being a reward for people, I see it as giving them a choice and control over the dragons on their own scroll, under changed conditions to those in which they made their initial choice.

 

 

 

 

Hi, fuzzy!

 

Thanks, but was making a lame attempt at a joke, actually; I don't bother tracking PMs, just indirectly sayin' there are RL opportunities to have change open which we don't all bother to take advantage of, among RL opportunities for even life-altering changes of previous decisions which we don't all need, but which are there for those who do.

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What about hatchlings that weren't meant to be frozen? I know I've done that more than a few times, clicked the wrong one or was freezing a bunch and that one was supposed to be grown up for a project. Might be nice to not have to do all that work again to replace x dragon. (This is why I don't do much with linages and only ever for myself, I get so tired of having to start over because I fail that much. lol)

 

but are personal lineages (with commons!) being greedy? Idk, just a thought on a different take/reason. If unfreezing happens, I have a few I would love to change, but if it doesn't, oh well.

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Well said Libby

 

I still say that the unfrozen hatchlings should be allowed to be traded, ONLY if it's a CB for another CB. I have a friend who is a programmer who easil pointed out that there are codes that can track such a thing.

 

So what if, since the hatchling was frozen, a date is put on it for 'unfrozen on:'? Would that make people here happier? I'm sure lots of people would love to see that too especially if there are the low low gens and such.

I'm against that. It's prioritizing CB over those with other lineages, and that is something that should be strictly done by individual players. The game itself should remain indifferent to lineage vs CB, and by allowing only CBs to be tradeable then you are adding weight to the idea that a CB is inherently better and more valuable than a dragon with a lineage.

 

I'm against that for the same reason I was against the idea of "CB only" in the "unfreeze holidays" thread.

 

I'm neutral on the idea of an "unfrozen on" date, though. It doesn't bother me one way or the other if that were added or not.

 

You want to put more rares into circulation is what most of you have stated. If you are trying to back out of that assumption you have placed on yourselves, it will not work, because you want them for breeding purposes. That is literally the only reason they would be wanted as adult pixels in the first place, aside from pretty spriting.

Or, like me, they could really really enjoy having the "caught/bred on" date match the date of release. :|

 

Sure, sure, most people want them for breeding. But that's just a nice little side bonus to the holidays for me... So no, "putting more rares into circulation" is not "literally the only reason" people want this aside from liking the adults.

 

Excuse you! I gifted every 2g Christmas I bred this year and I would still like my other CB Christmases unfrozen.

I'm in a similar boat, only for the last several years I've just dumped every single thing I breed (except one Holly egg I gift to somebody) from my holidays into the AP unless otherwise contacted with a request for an egg from a specific lineage.

 

I've no use for trading them, really.

 

I worked hard to collect my golds when they had the old sprites. Wheres my option to revert the sprites I actively set out to collect to the sprites I actually liked? I dont have that option, and the option will not ever be available to me, and im forced to choose to keep them with the new sprites or release them all. I find that to be very unfair, but im forced to live with it.

So, it's a case of "we can't fix EVERYTHING so let's fix nothing", huh?

 

(And, for the record, I'd be very much in favor of letting you revert them. Of letting you chose which sprites you personally view each dragon on your scroll as. For more than just Old Golds)

 

Everyone has made choices they later regret in their lives. There is NOTHING that can go back and reverse those choices, but there are lessons to be learned from them. I'm sure almost everyone out there has /something/ they wish they had a magic spell to go back and reverse, however.. its just not possible. However, those choices do usually lead to some lesson learned, and those lessons affect the future choices for that person.

...But in life, and in plenty of games, there ARE second (and third, and fourth, etc.) chances with things. You CAN change your mind. You CAN get things that are, for all intents and purposes, identical or superior to the original thing you missed out on at times.

 

I agree with Thuban here, and what people seem to be forgetting is that all changes are permanent until they are not. We don't make that decision, TJ does. And freezing itself just cries out "you have to commit this to yourself". If you don't want something frozen, don't freeze it, but instead of trying to make older dragons that were frozen into a solution, you could just... y'know, breed more rares and uncommons if that's what you wanted; get an effort together to do that instead of sidestepping the issue of effort as a one-quick-fix for everyone.

 

 

And uh, how's the ratio argument going for you guys? Because if hundreds of dragons on a lot of scrolls are unfrozen and the rares grow up, there go the ratios, especially since I believe they reset recently. Can you imagine the years of not a single CB metal to be had? I know I can, because it's happened. Making them unbreedable stems fro them idea that they don't screw up the ratios any more than they need to by growing up.

And before the renaming was added, it WAS something that you had to commit yourself to. We could either release, or live with it. (Or kill and wait for it to cycle out of the system). Just like freezing is now.

 

And sorry, but "trying to breed more" does jack for me. I can breed all the holidays I want as it is. But I cannot have a second adult of the older releases with the "caught on" date as their release, which is something I really, really like having.

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Regarding adding an "unfrozen on" date: I don't mind it, but shouldn't it already be obvious from the difference in the bred / caught time versus the matured on time that they were frozen at one point?

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