Do mass breeds still deserve their hate?

[GUYUGKUYG]

A long time ago, back when I used to play, the AP could block the main cave.

 

However, on these days, the AP no longer does that, and most of the biomes seem to be stagnant now-a-days. Instead, people flock to the AP because all of the eggs are incuhatchable (and when we're lucky, the eggs don't even need an incubate to hatch instantly).

 

Recently, I've noticed how fun it is on those days where the AP is flooded with low-time ER eggs to grab a couple, hatch them in under 10 minutes, and repeat.

 

However, that isn't always the case. However, I have seen a few days where the times on eggs got extremely low (almost approaching 2 days) after certain players spammed large amounts of commons (mints, neotropicals, whiptails, etc). Personally, I am a even-gen hoarder (doesn't matter what breed, as long as it's EG and non-inbred I'll take it), so I didn't care about the breeds and I just took a bunch of eggs for the fact that I could hatch them early.

 

On the other hand, I know a lot of players don't like mints or neotropicals or balloons or horses, so I thought something up. If a large amount of players could breed a large amount of dragons that were either favorable (good lineages, rares, uncommons, etc) or bred a large amount of dragons indiscriminately, we could flood the AP with low-time eggs WITHOUT flooding the AP with eggs that no one wants).

 

If a large amount of players did this, we could theoretically have a permanent supply of low-time eggs that could be hatched within a few minutes.

 

Of course, I'm just bringing up a possibility and I may be forgetting some important factors.

[edwardelricfreak]

You're forgetting the infamous ratios, certainly. If there are more and more rares, it become even harder to breed them and they're found even less commonly in the biomes.

[Natayah]

I used to not really care about mass breeding either way. And I send plenty of eggs to the AP myself. But you better believe its an egg I would be happy to find, so I'm down with that. And I have stopped breeding entire weeks together if its an event or release where I know that there will be extra backup.

 

I ask myself, would this enhance someone's scroll .... would it likely have a chance to end up on the Great AP finds thread ..... are people already breeding too much of this .... is there something special about this egg ....

 

But I know there are plenty of players who either don't care and / or think its funny to mess with the AP. But this has also impacted trade values and game styles. There is a lot less value on TIME and EFFORT because its all instant in many ways.

 

So I consider myself responsible and I think it impacts the game negatively when you throw your 200 2G mints and neotropicals in the AP.

 

However, if you insist upon doing this at least go design an awesome hybrid dragon submission so there can be a reason for people to want to get these eggs.

 

Not meaning to pick on mints and neos .... there are plenty of other breeds .... the seas of green ... just came to mind.

[Draketeeth]

Gonna have to agree with Sci on this, one of the big problems with doing a planned mass breed by the community, was that the ratios. A scroll now and again can get away with it, but I'm glad that there are no planned mass breeds anymore. They rather skew things unfavorably as a whole when using uncommons and rares.

 

Which isn't to say that I dislike mass breeds should someone happen to do one now and again. Except I'm never around for them to glean the awesomemess of lineages that results

 

[GUYUGKUYG]

Yeah, the ratios were something that concerned myself slightly too.

 

But I wonder . . . what if a group of people bred every single decent egg (different people value different things, my personal definition would be "anything that has a nice-looking lineage" but others care less about lineages and more about other things) on their scroll. As long as they had a good mix of dragons they wouldn't impact the ratios too much, while still providing low-time eggs on the AP.

[Nectaris]

Meh, I don't care for mass breeds because I am often on there looking for low time abandoned CBs. I actually love Neos, but I want CBs, not bred. Occasionally I will keep one with a pretty lineage, but rarely.

 

Also, not everyone has the same tastes, I see a lot of people like moonstones, but I really don't like them and a flood of them would horrify me.

 

And then, like it has been pointed out, the ratios are an issue.

[Amazon_warrior]

Yeah, the ratios were something that concerned myself slightly too.

 

But I wonder . . . what if a group of people bred every single decent egg (different people value different things, my personal definition would be "anything that has a nice-looking lineage" but others care less about lineages and more about other things) on their scroll.  As long as they had a good mix of dragons they wouldn't impact the ratios too much, while still providing low-time eggs on the AP.

...but that already happens? What else am I seeing in the AP, if not a bunch of assorted eggs from multiple scrolls presumably bred because the owners liked them or thought others might (or they're breeding fails, which doesn't prevent others finding them attractive). Sorry, not quite sure what you're driving at here.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Amazon_warrior

[GUYUGKUYG]

...but that already happens? What else am I seeing in the AP, if not a bunch of assorted eggs from multiple scrolls presumably bred because the owners liked them or thought others might (or they're breeding fails, which doesn't prevent others finding them attractive). Sorry, not quite sure what you're driving at here.

It does happen on a large enough scale.

 

Well, it actually does happen on a large scale every once in a while . . . whic his probably why the times in the AP dip down to 3 days and stuff every once per week or so, but it doesn't happen nearly enough. If there was a group of people able to mass breed a large amount of eggs nearly every day . . . the numbers could stay that low on the AP for an indefinite amount of time.

[ZzelaBusya]

In all honesty, I have never really cared what was happening in the AP, even back in the days when it would block the cave if full. If there's nothing in the AP that I like, I just go hunt a little in the cave (in case of a blocked cave I used to just take a break and that's all).

 

The AP is a place created for eggs people do NOT need, generally; lovely eggs thrown there specifically are more of an exception. So I'm really neutral on what's going on there and have never hated mass-breedings.

 

As for your suggestion, I don't really get it. I highly doubt that it's possible to really flood the AP with something favourable WITHOUT having to do the same with breeds people don't want, as you say. Let's imagine everyone goes and breeds ALL their possible nice Metallics to commons to dump any offsprings into the AP. What happens? Yes, some Metal eggs will be produced and abandoned, but they will be sent to the AP along with TONS of Metalfails which would make a wall instead of the Metals.

 

So yeah, I don't see a point in that, to be honest. But then again, I would personally not be interested in taking part in such projects at all, as I am quite okay with the current state of the AP.

[edwardelricfreak]

If people bred a bunch to where the eggs were always below 4 days so they could hatch instantly, it would be even HARDER for the backlog to go away, imo. There will be too many of the low time eggs and they'll just die. The backlog is the stuff that becomes those less-than-4-day eggs because they were never seen and then finally fall low enough to be ahead of the other eggs.

[dustpuppy]

The "Great Lineages Found in AP" thread currently has 478 pages. I can't get enough of low-time cool lineages but I can't really claim there is a shortage.

 

I usually only "mass breed" my Reds (meaning about ten eggs maybe, which isn't excessive) but I like seeing egg walls, even if it's not something I want right now. It's not blocking the cave, no one is forced to take them, it doesn't prevent catching, breeding or trading... I don't see a problem.

[Amazon_warrior]

In all honesty, I have never really cared what was happening in the AP, even back in the days when it would block the cave if full. If there's nothing in the AP that I like, I just go hunt a little in the cave (in case of a blocked cave I used to just take a break and that's all).

 

The AP is a place created for eggs people do NOT need, generally; lovely eggs thrown there specifically are more of an exception. So I'm really neutral on what's going on there and have never hated mass-breedings.

 

As for your suggestion, I don't really get it. I highly doubt that it's possible to really flood the AP with something favourable WITHOUT having to do the same with breeds people don't want, as you say. Let's imagine everyone goes and breeds ALL their possible nice Metallics to commons to dump any offsprings into the AP. What happens? Yes, some Metal eggs will be produced and abandoned, but they will be sent to the AP along with TONS of Metalfails which would make a wall instead of the Metals.

 

So yeah, I don't see a point in that, to be honest. But then again, I would personally not be interested in taking part in such projects at all, as I am quite okay with the current state of the AP.

Also this.

 

(Though the mass breeds *did* annoy me when they blocked the cave. But now they don't, I'm not terribly bothered either way.)

 

 

In any case, I've typically had a philosophy of breeding mostly only for my projects (and abandoning the fails), or very rarely breeding nice lineages specifically to abandon. Once in a blue moon I might go on a spree and breed my CB cool codes for the AP. But otherwise, I breed with the assumption that the result is one I'd want to keep. Doing a mass breed for the hell of it isn't really my play style.

[Jazeki]

I think that the purpose of mass breeding is to throw the ratios in favor of one species either appearing or not appearing in the cave. So, if people breed a ton of mints or neos, this means that fewer of these will appear in the cave or be successful in producing offspring when bred (which is what people want, since they're common).

 

People have done coordinated mass breeding with popular species before and while awesome to start with, it generally had negative results such as blacks becoming rarer and a drought in metals and seasonals, for example. TJ has since adjusted ratios accordingly, but this is always a concern for these types of suggestions.

 

Really though, rather than planning a mass breed to combat those that occasionally occur, it's best to either ignore what's going on in the AP or to help to clear it out.

I do a lot of CB hunting in the AP, but if there are masses of low time eggs, I don't mind hatching them and gifting them away or freezing to help keep the eggs moving.

[GUYUGKUYG]

I think that the purpose of mass breeding is to throw the ratios in favor of one species either appearing or not appearing in the cave.

Yeah, that was the old purpose of mass breedings.

 

My crazy idea is that we can give mass breedings a different purpose by doing them slightly differently. Instead of mass breeding one type of egg to throw ratios around, we could instead mass breed different species in order to lower times in the AP.

 

If people bred a bunch to where the eggs were always below 4 days so they could hatch instantly, it would be even HARDER for the backlog to go away, imo. There will be too many of the low time eggs and they'll just die. The backlog is the stuff that becomes those less-than-4-day eggs because they were never seen and then finally fall low enough to be ahead of the other eggs.

I understand that part, but how exactly is that a bad thing? The backlog doesn't block the cave anymore. Personally, I like the backlog. What I'm proposing now is that since the backlog doesn't have any negative affects on the main cave anymore, why are we still concerned about it?

Edited November 27, 2013 by GUYUGKUYG

[ZzelaBusya]

My crazy idea is that we can give mass breedings a different purpose by doing them slightly differently.  Instead of mass breeding one type of egg to throw ratios around, we could instead mass breed different species in order to lower times in the AP.

Question: what's the need of lowering the times in the AP? I mean, eggs there are almost always incuhatchable (sometimes even ER), with very rare exceptions, what's the problem?

Edited November 28, 2013 by ZzelaBusya

[dustpuppy]

I understand that part, but how exactly is that a bad thing?

I think the bad thing isn't the backlog but...

 

There will be too many of the low time eggs and they'll just die.

 

...this. Making it less likely that people will want to let their nice eggs go to the AP, because they may just die before anyone even gets to see them.

[GUYUGKUYG]

Question: what's the need of lowering the times in the AP? I mean, eggs there are almost always incuhatchable (sometimes even ER), with very rare exceptions, what's the problem?

The point is to turn them all from incu-hatchable to ER-able. Every few days (usually 3-4 days after a mass-breeding), the times go down to ER-able. What I'm proposing here is that it may be possible to turn all of the AP-page eggs into ER-able eggs for a long period of time through constant mass-breedings.

 

because they may just die before anyone even gets to see them.

But aren't the eggs shown on the AP the eggs that are lowest time? From that logic if the 1st egg on the AP is 3 days and 20 hours, then there should be no eggs on the AP older than 3 days and 20 hours, and thus all of the eggs are at least 3 days and 20 hours away from death. Or am I wrong on that?

Edited November 28, 2013 by GUYUGKUYG

[ZzelaBusya]

The point is to turn them all from incu-hatchable to ER-able.  Every few days (usually 3-4 days after a mass-breeding), the times go down to ER-able.  What I'm proposing here is that it may be possible to turn all of the AP-page eggs into ER-able eggs for a long period of time through constant mass-breedings.

*shrugs* Earlier eggs in the AP used to be at, like, 7d 0h. Nowadays there's nothing but eggs around 4 days there, and some people are not happy even with that?

 

I understand your point, but I really think what we have is perfect. хD Users breed/throw away enough eggs (or rather, to be fair, users do not take enough eggs from the AP) for incuhatchable eggs to be displayed there, which is great. If someone out there decides to mass-breed something once in a while, it's their choice, but personally I wouldn't say it's necessary to call out to users and suggest doing that even more.

 

If people mass-breed all their dragons, it will reduce the quality of what can be found in the AP, for example it will be harder to search for CBs in there, or for nice lines, and while I wouldn't say I care about it too much, I thought I'd mention it anyway, because all your suggestion basically proposes is "Yay for more random bred stuff in the AP!" =P

 

Working a little bit on getting some Reds for incubating really isn't too big of a problem, I'd say, so I think the current state of the AP is fine as it is.

[GUYUGKUYG]

*shrugs* Earlier eggs in the AP used to be at, like, 7d 0h. Nowadays there's nothing but eggs around 4 days there, and some people are not happy even with that?

 

I understand your point, but I really think what we have is perfect. хD Users breed/throw away enough eggs (or rather, to be fair, users do not take enough eggs from the AP) for incuhatchable eggs to be displayed there, which is great. If someone out there decides to mass-breed something once in a while, it's their choice, but personally I wouldn't say it's necessary to call out to users and suggest doing that even more.

 

If people mass-breed all their dragons, it will reduce the quality of what can be found in the AP, for example it will be harder to search for CBs in there, or for nice lines, and while I wouldn't say I care about it too much, I thought I'd mention it anyway, because all your suggestion basically proposes is "Yay for more random bred stuff in the AP!" =P

 

Working a little bit on getting some Reds for incubating really isn't too big of a problem, I'd say, so I think the current state of the AP is fine as it is.

Yeah, the last time I played Dragon Cave it was all 7 day stuff in the AP, that's why I'm so crazy about the new incu-hatchable and ER-able eggs. Crazy contrast between the two. I personally find it be much more fun this way.

 

I was less telling other players to do it and more asking if it would be logically possible (just in case I forgot something) and how people would react to it.

 

I guess I'll have to think about the diminishing percentages of CB eggs in the AP as a side effect though . . .

[Natayah]

Yah, I loved too ... at first. Then it just became really normal and upsetting because it was so common place that CB hatchies have FAR less value on trade (like if someone once asked for 50 CB hatchies for some super rare dragon, they would now have to ask for like .... 150 - 200 to get that same value because of the AP) and it got to be too easy.

 

If its not a challenge, its not a game, and its not fun for me. Don't get me wrong, I am thrilled that there are certain eggs I didn't consider valuable enough to pick up from the cave and was thrilled to get Incuhatch versions so I could get more on my scroll. But .... unless you want to hoard them or build a huge army or some huge breeding project or have a massive scroll collection (none of these are me except when it comes to purples, and even there I have my limits, and only cuz I use their BSA so much more and more and more), there becomes a point where you start going .... how many more of xyz breed CBs do I still really need?

 

I also understand many CBs are still rarer or less common and you gotta get em from the cave and/or some really lucky AP find and/or be willing to wait the time to hatch em or trade for em.

 

Still love to hunt the AP sometimes, still love to find CBs I want, still love to find treasures, but its just not what it was for me anymore. And its so much easier to fill up scrolls and get higher trophy levels faster.... is this a good thing, is this a bad thing??? I don't know it depends.

 

But it also compounds the problem that more users have easier access to bigger scrolls and more dragons to breed into the AP.... at some point with that kinda growth, you could end up with an AP sitting at 1 day or less all the time...

 

Which then you ask... would that also drop the value of NDs? One of the few bedrock dragons that have held their value. I don't know. There are just a lot of factors. What I would recommend instead is that you schedule a special "Lotto Day" on the IRC/Chat network. You can create your own channel and advertise it and/or use #dragonlotto. Go to the main room for info. And you can ask a bunch of people to bring a couple of valuable dragons and go lotto happy. Just expect mass chaos unless you speak to a couple of experienced vets on how to do this.

 

Additionally, there are some really awesome gifting projects. Maybe you could have a special day to arrange and advertise with them that awesome teleports (2 way and 1 way) will be randomly posted all day or all weekend on a certain day(s) and have people stalk the thread and just go crazy crazy. It could be a lot of fun.

 

Sometimes its better to think outside of the game systems (as they have game reprecussions) and look at how this could be a player organized / run event instead and get it organized, advertised, and run and not run into causing those issues for the game as a whole. And a lot of people can have a lot of fun.

 

Feel free to steal those ideas and run with them as you like anyone whose out there. Just ... get people involved to keep it sane for you. Don't do it alone.

 

And as an FYI I think some of the eggs that time out grow up in the wild and may not die. I know that happened once for me. IDK if TJ did or didn't make any changes or people had other experiences, but I was very disappointed that my really awesomer lines were running wild and not making someone happy and dancing.

Edited November 28, 2013 by natayah

[Oddsoxdi]

I really love AP hunting so I absolutely HATE seeing that damned wall of Mints happening so regularly. Oh sure, he's playing the game he wants to play and forcing all the rest of us to play HIS game. So YEAH mass breeding still deserves all the hate since it's a self-centered don't give a damn about any other player on DC way of thinking. The LEAST people could do if they MUST mass breed, is breed USEFUL eggs instead of inbred, long-lined crappy Mints.

[ZzelaBusya]

I really love AP hunting so I absolutely HATE seeing that damned wall of Mints happening so regularly. Oh sure, he's playing the game he wants to play and forcing all the rest of us to play HIS game. So YEAH mass breeding still deserves all the hate since it's a self-centered don't give a damn about any other player on DC way of thinking. The LEAST people could do if they MUST mass breed, is breed USEFUL eggs instead of inbred, long-lined crappy Mints.

To be honest (don't mean to offend anyone and sorry if I do), it seems rather amusing to me how angry people on here can get about something as harmless as Mint eggs in the AP. Walls like that don't last too long in any case, after a while they're gone.

 

Also, the mysterious "he" you're talking about is far from being the only person who mass-breeds something common

 

*shrugs* Doesn't seem like a huge disaster to me that the AP mostly has eggs of one breed for some hours and gets its usual diversity back after that.

Edited November 29, 2013 by ZzelaBusya

[dragongrrl]

I really love AP hunting so I absolutely HATE seeing that damned wall of Mints happening so regularly. Oh sure, he's playing the game he wants to play and forcing all the rest of us to play HIS game. So YEAH mass breeding still deserves all the hate since it's a self-centered don't give a damn about any other player on DC way of thinking. The LEAST people could do if they MUST mass breed, is breed USEFUL eggs instead of inbred, long-lined crappy Mints.

I look forward to the Mint masses because they're mostly 2nd gen and bred to very nice dragons. In fact, I hope to collect 42 of the 2nd gen Mints from one breeder.

[PointOfOrigin]

I look forward to the Mint masses because they're mostly 2nd gen and bred to very nice dragons. In fact, I hope to collect 42 of the 2nd gen Mints from one breeder.

That's a nice idea actually.

 

I don't care about massbreeds of one breed. But, there's one person who breeds their whole scroll (no idea who is it) at the same time, and regularly leaves the AP full of horribly lineaged dragons. I want to pull my hair out when it's that time of the week.

[DigitalGarden]

Honestly I've planned to mass-breed my Bleeding Moons when I reach number of 500-1000 but meh. I rarely see anybody thanking me for even nice lineages dropped to the AP so I don't see the point of trying anymore. Random gifting via forums and IRC is much better.

 

Generally I don't mind mass-breeding said Mints, as last time some of them had nice lineages, or were 2nd gens, or had amusing codes. Quite a wide choice despite them all being the same breed. ...but when I see someone mass-bred different kinds, and both parents have pokemon names, I can be almost completely sure it's going to be terribly messy. So generally it all depends on who spams the AP and with what content. But I'm able to get over it so no problem for me.