Change the Holidays

[DragonNighthowler]

Well, if we can get TJ to accept more open holiday dragons then I'm for it..but dont toss christmas all together. because not everyone sees it as some religious thing. But.. do we have to dress up dragons in gaudy colors and tassles for holidays? Why cant they be subtle? I do try for that.. ..gently have it blended in. Like Holly, its a plant during winter. yulebucks are candycane and fury reigndeer like..etc. So a Hanukkah dragon would be lit with multiple flames, or golden spinny... or a Kwanza dragon could be the colors and hint at whatever it is that holiday has..I have like no idea except what Futurama had .__. wow I'm lame.

 

I did try more diverse winter things or styles but yes they never made it, and one was told to be never used (no easterns..sorry guys..) BUT..if enough people voice it, we could have him more open to the idea.

 

But..dont get rid of christmas or the past ones. Sorry if they offended people, they wernt meant to. We try to be open to everyone.

I don't want it gone. I love Christmas. I love the colors, the lights, the sweets, the decorations, everything. It has no more religious meaning to me than it has for a child, and yes, we might sing some religious songs... although in my family these songs have been modified to a non PG-13 rating.

My favorite day of the year is the 24th of December. I go to my aunt's house, and I just love stuffing myself with all the great food. My grandma has been making the same things for the past 27 years (which is as long as I can remember).

I frankly believe Christmas has stopped having it's religious meaning since decades ago. Sure, most of the things we do in my country have religious meaning, but when preparing a "Belén" people are not thinking how religious it is, but are actually having fun with their kids, the same way in other countries you decorate a Christmas trees. A Belén is a diorama about Christ's birth, and a Roscón de Reyes is called after the three wise kings, but I couldn't care less, it is delicious. There is actually a whole ritual involving it which is more as a game to have fun with the family than something religious.

I still don't see the religiousness of a Ribbon or a Wrapping paper, but well, people don't like it. That's fine.

 

The thing is, people who are pagan are going to complain if something is done to integrate Hanukkah (I don't know how to write that, sorry), and those of this or that culture will feel offended and complain by that or this.

So the best solution to avoid fighting and complaining is doing something from scratch, in a totally different date, so people are not subjected to treat it again in a Christmasy way, or feel offended if there is a bit too much red on a special release.

 

I honestly couldn't care less. Like I said, DC celebrations have nothing to do with my culture or country's celebration, and as long as the site doesn't go all in favor of pushing animals extinct, I'm pretty cool with everything. I think this kind of things and discussions makes us forget our essence as human beings, and create differences when we should be united for we are a same specie.

I never felt offended by other celebrations, or upset that DC doesn't celebrate the solemn, dark, celebration that "Halloween" is to us, where we actually honor those who passed away. I'm cool with Halloween in the game, and honoring my dead in RL.

[olympe]

The problem is not about snow angels (which kids make in the snow) or holly dragons or wrapping wings or anything like that, but that all of them are called Christmas dragons in the description. At least that's the feeling I get.

 

So, would there be anything wrong with just putting the breed name into their description? They'd still be hollies and yulebucks and so on, just not officially Christmas dragons. And whatever you want to call them in private - and most members probably will call them Christmas dragons - is fine. And maybe we could even add some winter holiday dragons that don't represent Christmas quite as strongly as some people feel the actual Christmas dragons do.

[DragonNighthowler]

The problem is not about snow angels (which kids make in the snow) or holly dragons or wrapping wings or anything like that, but that all of them are called Christmas dragons in the description. At least that's the feeling I get.

 

So, would there be anything wrong with just putting the breed name into their description? They'd still be hollies and yulebucks and so on, just not officially Christmas dragons. And whatever you want to call them in private - and most members probably will call them Christmas dragons - is fine. And maybe we could even add some winter holiday dragons that don't represent Christmas quite as strongly as some people feel the actual Christmas dragons do.

Putting their names kind of makes sense, and I always wondered why it wasn't done.

 

The wintery thing idea has a flaw. People have a tendency to unconsciously be subjected. If I say Africa and tell you to think of an animal, you'll probably imagine an african animal. If I tell you, think of an animal without saying Africa, you'll probably think whatever you have at home (dog, cat, horse...).

This is the same. The spriters and TJ know it is Christmas. We know it is Christmas (those of us who celebrate it), so we're subjected to do Christmasy things again, and get people upset.

 

By creating a totally new holiday in a totally different date, and not celebrating any cultural, religious or whatever holiday from anywhere around the world, we are avoiding offending anyone, because, ho can something totally imaginary offend you? Summer has little religious meaning anyways. Surf, beach, mountain (for those like me who run away from sea and sun), we have a lot to play with and nothing with which to offend people's cultures or beliefs.

[olympe]

Well, the Christmas event has been called "Winter Holiday Event" in the news announcement this Christmas... And changing the dragon descriptions to avoid the term Christmas will kind of stop people from being offended by the dragons themselves.

 

And even though you're right in theory, there is one interesting thing about winter holidays: Most of them have some element of light to them - often in the form of candles.

[TJ09]

I'm not biased towards or against any specific holiday in terms of picking event dragons.

 

It's all down to what dragons are submitted. I can't release dragons that I don't have.

[RainDear]

Whatever else might happen to it, changing the date would be extremely unfair to the large number of players that don't frequent the forums. Even if there is an announcement, many who just come in on Dec. 25 for the release would be left out if the date was changed.

 

There is not a lot about this that I feel very strongly about- keeping the events and keeping the dates are about it. I don't really want anything changed, but would live with changing the names and making alterations to the dragon descriptions if other themes than those presently in place are used.

[hazeh]

I'm not biased towards or against any specific holiday in terms of picking event dragons.

 

It's all down to what dragons are submitted. I can't release dragons that I don't have.

He has spoken ;w;

 

Awesome! I hope this spurs some creative holiday dragons that aren't necessarily Christmas themed.

 

have i mentioned how much i want a menorah dragon?

 

 

Also, schmupti, I thought that was a wonderful description. Made me smile! c:

[olympe]

I'm not biased towards or against any specific holiday in terms of picking event dragons.

 

It's all down to what dragons are submitted. I can't release dragons that I don't have.

Thanks for clarifying. Maybe someone could put that in the OP?

[DragonNighthowler]

Maybe it should be specified somewhere. It sure would be nice to see a different approach to winter-celebration-of-your-choice dragon.

 

Also, it would be nice to see a different approach to Valentines as well. Just as a suggestion. I know little of the celebration because I have the firm belief that it is an excuse supermarkets threw at us to get over the low sales right after Christmas.

Maybe we could make an approach similar to a spring solstice. Birth, nature, spring. It would be more appealing and less pink that usual.

[~Kat~]

If you start changing a lot of the things I have read on this thread, just start a new game then. Even if that was to happen, no one will be exactly happy with that I do not believe.

 

You do not start playing something and then want a lot of things changed, that defeats the purpose of who started the game in the first place like TJ started this I think.

 

People who decided to play dragons, as they got into it, if they were not happy with the way things were, could have always quit.

 

Pages and pages of who likes what, when and if, and who does not.

[Amur_Rama]

I'm not biased towards or against any specific holiday in terms of picking event dragons.

 

It's all down to what dragons are submitted. I can't release dragons that I don't have.

Thank you!

 

 

 

There we have it, everyone, just start submitting ideas.

[High Lord November]

If I recall correctly, the only time it is referred to as a "Christmas" dragon is in the description (holds the "spirit of Christmas"). Even then, it mentions it being more of a general holiday dragon, and that part is simply a reference to better explain their importance ("they are responsible for the general cheer that spreads during the holidays" caters to pretty much everyone, IMO.)

 

If it's the "Christmas dragons are a very mysterious breed" part, then just change the Christmas to something like "Winter holiday". Although I don't know if that's required - this is the first time I've seen someone complain about it.

 

Otherwise, it's "Holiday Event 20xx". I find it a bit odd that people would be saying that they feel excluded due to this - I take it more as a general term of happiness, sharing time with the family, and eating lots of food, which I'm pretty sure applies to other holidays around that time too.

 

That might also be because here we mainly call the Christmas holidays "the holidays". That word just applies to that entire time, not a specific event, and that's how I view it. Views might be different depending on where you live and what holidays you celebrate, though.

 

In the OP it mentions specific holidays. Why not, though? Maybe we could have a bit of variety to better represent the variety of holidays that go on at that time, but that requires sprites.

In respect to that, TJ brought up a good point - if you want the dragons to change, submit your sprites. He can't submit any other holiday sprites if he doesn't have them, so get to it!

[tjekan]

I'd have no problem with holiday-themed dragons for holidays other than Christmas. It might be hard to do an Hanukkah, Easter, or Chinese New Year's dragon while following the rules of avoiding dragons with objects, animal-dragon hybrids, and dragons reflecting a particular culture. But if an artist manages it, I'd be happy to collect them. Especially the Chinese New Year's one. :-D

[Rafaela22]

I'd have no problem with holiday-themed dragons for holidays other than Christmas. It might be hard to do an Hanukkah, Easter, or Chinese New Year's dragon while following the rules of avoiding dragons with objects, animal-dragon hybrids, and dragons reflecting a particular culture. But if an artist manages it, I'd be happy to collect them. Especially the Chinese New Year's one. :-D

I would want collect Chinese new year ones to! If they are easterns, anyway. I was so sad when the Chinese new year dragons last year grew up, I gave the ones I caught away I hope this year they are easterns. There are some pretty ones on the completed list.

 

I don't want christmas to change to much. I like it the way it is and the way the christmas dragons in cave are. I don't see problems with the other holidays.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Rafaela22

[DragonNighthowler]

I do think the cave needs more easterns. We have some really beautiful ones in the completed list, but never released. It would be great to see more of them in cave.

 

I can draw somewhat ok, but I can't sprite. I've tried getting some concepts done but rarely ever found a spriter.

As far as I know, holiday dragons are worked in secret and submitted directly to TJ, so the artistic challenged can't do much about it. But with hope, this discussion might trigger some ideas for someone to work in secret.

[bluebell_rose]

I doubt we'll ever get easterns at all. TJ doesn't like easterns, i noticed that easterns on the completed list never get selected. Right now the only eastern dragons we have are the silver, water and the sweetlings.

[Ashywolf]

I doubt we'll ever get easterns at all. TJ doesn't like easterns, i noticed that easterns on the completed list never get selected. Right now the only eastern dragons we have are the silver, water and the sweetlings.

I don't think this is true from what I've heard him say .

[Thuban]

I'm not biased towards or against any specific holiday in terms of picking event dragons.

 

It's all down to what dragons are submitted. I can't release dragons that I don't have.

Question:

 

The people who ARE brave enough to submit their holiday attempts, do they generally fix them up when they are not used and resubmit them? Are they dragons that might possibly work OUTSIDE of the holiday they were submitted for or are they generally /really/ holiday specific?

 

 

[aangs-sister]

Question:

 

The people who ARE brave enough to submit their holiday attempts, do they generally fix them up when they are not used and resubmit them? Are they dragons that might possibly work OUTSIDE of the holiday they were submitted for or are they generally /really/ holiday specific?

I believe the luminas were originally a holiday attempt. I also had intentions of recolouring and making a minor change to the patterns to the Wrapping-wings if they didn't make it into the cave and submitting them as 'Patterned Dragons'. The Rain Dragons were also a holiday attempt (for the Chinese new year)

 

I doubt we'll ever get easterns at all. TJ doesn't like easterns, i noticed that easterns on the completed list never get selected. Right now the only eastern dragons we have are the silver, water and the sweetlings.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe water dragons were based off of northern European sea serpents, not easterns. Personally, I would consider the sweetlings a wingless western (like the magmas) due to them being totally flightless and their leg and body proportions, but that might just be me.

 

I don't think this is true from what I've heard him say .

Could you please share what you've heard? Not that I'm trying to discredit you, it is just since the day I first joined the forum I have heard that TJ dislikes easterns. I've even been asked on eastern requests I've worked on to please add wings because they loved the sprites and knew it was almost a guarantee they would never get used if they stayed easterns. That's why there are so few easterns on the completed list, some people think it is a waste of time to suggest them.

[Ashywolf]

Could you please share what you've heard? Not that I'm trying to discredit you, it is just since the day I first joined the forum I have heard that TJ dislikes easterns. I've even been asked on eastern requests I've worked on to please add wings because they loved the sprites and knew it was almost a guarantee they would never get used if they stayed easterns. That's why there are so few easterns on the completed list, some people think it is a waste of time to suggest them.

On IRC Process asked TJ what he thought of easterns and he replied that there isn't enough.

 

Didn't save it word for word.

[olympe]

Personally, I would consider the sweetlings a wingless western (like the magmas) due to them being totally flightless and their leg and body proportions, but that might just be me.

Personally, I consider them cute little alien lizards - but that might just be me.

 

But it's good to know that holiday attempts that did not get chosen can still get into the cave as regular dragons.

[Ashywolf]

Aangs, I got a reponse from TJ in irc concerning this.

 

22:11:15 Ashywolf TJ09 did you ever say you hated easterns at all?

22:11:23 TJ09 Ashywolf, nope.

22:11:35 Ashywolf yeah I wonder where that rumour came from

22:11:55 Ashywolf someone recently challenged me when I said you didn't hate easterns

22:11:58 Ashywolf now I can quote you

22:12:01 Switch Well now you have logs

22:12:02 Switch

22:12:02 platedlizard Silvers are Eastern dragons o.O

22:12:09 TJ09 I haven't released one in a while, therefore I apparently "hate" them.

 

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ashywolf

[aangs-sister]

My apologies, I want intending on challenging or attacking you in any way. It has been a rumor so long (from before 2010) without TJ or anyone else trying to correct it that it has been virtually accepted as fact though the forum, leaving me surprised to see anyone post otherwise. Let's hope this trickles into dragon requests and encourages people to start suggesting them.

 

Personally, I consider them cute little alien lizards - but that might just be me.

This is also a totally valid opinion.

 

 

Now, back to the topic. Toning down/making the holidays 'less specific' is something I would actually be OK with. Fact is, there are only so many Christmas dragon themes that can be done so opening it up to other holidays or more general winter themes may be a good idea in the long run on top of including everyone. It really seems like a win-win situation.

[Ashywolf]

My apologies, I want intending on challenging or attacking you in any way.

Wasn't intended to be accusing you of that.

 

I was tempted to reword the IRC quote so you didn't think that but then it wouldn't be a quote.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Ashywolf

[Rafaela22]

Wow, that's crazy! I bearly use the forums, and even I knew full well that TJ didn't like easterns. When he didn't post even one for the Chinese new year, I assumed that was his way of saying that he hated them so much that he wouldn't even release one for the asian holiday.

 

If he dosn't dislike them, I wounder why he hasn't released one in so long? They're some on the done list ready and some of them are the prettiest dragons on the list...

Edited January 27, 2013 by Rafaela22