DC Gold

[DarkEternity]

I don't think the huge power this would grant older players can be pushed aside as, "Just one more thing, not like you don't already have it better."

It can, because any attempts to reduce the advantage of older players will be met with resentment and opposition:

Why should older players be penalized?

 

I've given up. At least having gold would let non old players have the chance of getting eggs since the current market is monopolised by the rich getting richer.

 

You can't possibly see any of the other suggestions (increased holiday limits and stuff) as really benefiting newer players, can you? They take holiday eggs out of the system, punishing newer players and rewarding older players. I can't really see any suggestion in this section which actually helps newer players instead of disadvantaging them.

Edited November 5, 2012 by DarkEternity

[brairtrainer]

It can, because any attempts to reduce the advantage of older players will be met with resentment and opposition:

Why should older players be penalized?

 

I've given up. At least having gold would let non old players have the chance of getting eggs since the current market is monopolised by the rich getting richer.

If you're going to argue that only the rich get richer on this site then I ask you spend some time over on howrse. Seriously there the new players get bought out of their horses and the rich are able to afford the best of everything(not just older players who earned there way there but people buying passes but thats how that game works) here after I raised a couple of dragons I was granted a chance at a ffa by a very generous older player who is able to catch cbs with ease. He ffa'd a very nicely lineaged gold, it is the only metalic on my scroll with a nice lineage.

 

I've also seen trades done where the person has to have none of a certain breed to get it or lottos like that. DC is far from a rich own everything. Sure they have more access to trades, but they are also willing to help out people, something I think would disappear when you add money into it.

[DarkEternity]

Well, I'm arguing that it doesn't matter if the rich get richer because it already happens anyway, so there's no use in being opposed to this suggestion on that basis Since it is inevitable. This suggestion is exactly like all the other suggestions out there.

Edited November 5, 2012 by DarkEternity

[Draco Knight]

It can, because any attempts to reduce the advantage of older players will be met with resentment and opposition:

Why should older players be penalized?

 

I've given up. At least having gold would let non old players have the chance of getting eggs since the current market is monopolised by the rich getting richer.

 

You can't possibly see any of the other suggestions (increased holiday limits and stuff) as really benefiting newer players, can you? They take holiday eggs out of the system, punishing newer players and rewarding older players. I can't really see any suggestion in this section which actually helps newer players instead of disadvantaging them.

Yes, things like that do benefit older players a little, that is inevitable. The BSAs benefit most older players almost instantly as chances are they already had the dragons to preform them with.

 

Gold would reform how the entire game is played for everyone, and feelings of, "The rich getting richer" would be even more prevalent. Although, compared to many other games, DC has a pretty giving community.

 

It seems like gold would be a huge advantage, not a minor one like a few extra Holidays or something.

[Amazon_warrior]

Has it occurred to anyone that one very good reason to thoroughly debate the mechanics and the pros and cons of any currency system is so that, should a similar suggestion be made in the future, we can point to this and say "See? We discussed all those points plus some you didn't even think of, and this is how the community felt about it."? No, I don't dismiss the feelings of others in this, they are valid. But they also don't poke for other loopholes or possibilities in a system or necessarily look beyond "I don't like it". I repeat, for the umpteenth time, that I have no vested interest in whether or not currency gets implemented in whatever form (a quick glace at my scroll should indicate that I do not lack the ability to trade for pretty much whatever I want *prods NDs*).

 

 

*resorts to taking pot-shots at own suggestion* Nobody's mentioned a pretty obvious flaw so far, in that there's nothing stopping a user raising a bunch of dragons, getting the gold for them, buying their rare and then just releasing all the dragons they just raised into the Wilderness. That would *really* screw with the ratios, no? The point about users with specific scroll goals is also a good one. I have scroll goals too, but I've also decided to be flexible with them and to create loopholes for myself that allow me to over-collect, as it were. This also keeps me an active player. However, I have no right to judge someone else for not wanting to have that same level of flexibility if that's not their goal.

 

Regarding the generosity thing, assuming that scroll limits will always exist, people will *always* need to prioritise what they use that space for. I can and have created NDs, so why aren't I sitting on a mountain of CB metallics or 2nd gen Tinsels right now? (FYI, all of my CB Golds are self-caught, none were traded for.) Logically, that would be my optimal course. However, right now I choose for my egg-slot priorities to be elsewhere, with breeding lineages and gifting them. Humans are weird like that - they don't always use cold logic in all their decisions! Also, if I gift a user a 2nd gen (or even CB) Trio or Stripe or whatever right now, I *know* that they're getting something with good trade value, and there's absolutely nothing (other than my disapproval) to stop them running straight to the trading threads with the egg I gave them. It doesn't stop me from gifting to others if they do. It *might* give me pause if the trader giftee then asked me for another egg, but I usually tend towards the "it's on your scroll, it's your dragon now" school of thought. I honestly can't see the idea of someone getting an egg from my dragons, plus earning a little currency from raising it, stopping me from wanting to breed and gift to others - why would it? People I gift to *now* already get a dragon with an added extra - a lineage that they chose but didn't have to build themselves. One of my primary joys on DC is offering to help with peoples' lineages and seeing my dragons in a beautiful project, and I have no idea why I would stop liking that, with or without a currency system. If we all had infinite space to raise every egg we bred or caught, then perhaps things would be different and the greed factor would certainly be a cause for concern. As it is, I stand to gain nothing from an egg I have no space for and wouldn't have bred if someone didn't ask for it and it's no skin off my nose if they gain something extra to what I'm already giving them. After all, I've presumably already gained currency from the dragons I raised as I went about creating those pretty lineages.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Amazon_warrior

[demonicvampiregirl]

I've given up. At least having gold would let non old players have the chance of getting eggs since the current market is monopolised by the rich getting richer.

If you're going to argue that only the rich get richer on this site then I ask you spend some time over on howrse. Seriously there the new players get bought out of their horses and the rich are able to afford the best of everything(not just older players who earned there way there but people buying passes but thats how that game works) here after I raised a couple of dragons I was granted a chance at a ffa by a very generous older player who is able to catch cbs with ease. He ffa'd a very nicely lineaged gold, it is the only metalic on my scroll with a nice lineage.

 

I've also seen trades done where the person has to have none of a certain breed to get it or lottos like that. DC is far from a rich own everything. Sure they have more access to trades, but they are also willing to help out people, something I think would disappear when you add money into it.

That is what I think will happen too briartrainer. I think adding money in would make this game more greedy (as TJ said before hoarding isn't possible on this game so no greed takes place). I gift my eggs and would never accept a egg in return or money at all (if they do have something I really want however I will open the possibility of making it a real trade). I can see that changing with people if it gets put in.

 

I would definitely lose interest in DC if gold gets put in. I don't care if it is optional to use in a trade or whatever just the thought of it on DC is horrible to me. I've loved this game being the style it is now. I can collect and do whatever I want with my own scroll and change my play style as I see fit and not have to worry about getting any points or anything besides eggs to get what I want or need at the time. Adding gold in would force me into changing how I play on here and that is something I would not like at all.

[olympe]

We could unlink shop ratios from cave and breeding ratios, but this still changes how the game works and defeats the purpose of the store. This would mean that only so many people could get x type of dragon from the store or that you would have to depend on currency + x chance that you'll get the dragon. The point of the store is to make it available to all, so this obviously won't work.

In my example, it would take a gold player (with no trading, but endless incubates) 41 weeks to be able to buy a CB gold (raising 1000 dragons). That's between 9 and 10 months. If everyone who collects endlessly "buys" one CB gold every 10 months, that sure won't affect the ratios as badly as you might think - after all, this person raises more than twice as many commons as are demanded by the ratios for each gold in the game. It's more of a way to repay the person who does help keep the golds (and silvers, trios...) coming by raising commons, not cheating.

 

Or, as suggested later on from this quote, store dragons could just not count towards the ratios. But this still changes the whole way the game works. Now we have dragons that are essentially worth nothing that just take a little time and effort and you are guaranteed on.

Why should we have ratios in cave and breeding if you can just raise some dragons and easily buy it in the store?

I never cease to be amazed by some peoples' definition of "a little time and effort" or "easily". I'm talking about more than 9 months of doing nothing but raise commons. Take me, for example. I've been playing for 3 years now, never went on a long hiatus, always tried to keep my scroll locked - and I have 1600+ dragons. That would mean that - after three years of playing - I'd have been able to buy one CB gold. I'm sure that would totally unbalance the ratios...

 

But since they're not a part of the ratios and therefore can't have any kind of common/uncommon/rare status, this is also going to strongly affect trading and even lineages. Trading because you know we are going to have people that are going to want 'real' gold eggs, not some 'cheap store' gold egg, so now trading is going to get picky and hard in determining the difference in these or just being paranoid that all trades you're asking for you did work for your side of the offer, but not the same amount of work went into the other side of the offer, making it unfair for you to accept.

Nobody but TJ and the code would be able to tell the difference between a shop egg and a cave egg. And thank you for disregarding the raising of 1000 commons - for which the ratios would allow several golds - as not worth being lucky and catching a gold. Really, with this attitude, I'm close to starting a "commons boycott thread" with the suggestion that everybody only raise rares and uncommons for half a year so the "lucky" people see who they have to thank for the rares they caught. If people like me refused to raise endless rares, there would be fewer rares.

 

I keep seeing the idea of raising common dragons as a way to gain gold. Doesn't that just give more of an advantage to older, active players? I can raise 7 eggs at a time, and a newer player that could benefit from currency much more than I can raise 4 or 5 depending...I got more gold at a faster rate, since I also have red dragons that can Incubate.

 

Suddenly I have all the advantages. I have good reflexes, excellent internet, and no aversion to raising cave blockers(who decides which dragons give currency?) to gain gold.

Only for some time. A new player can gain their bronze trophy after 42 days with no effort involved. (Meaning: no incubating, no catching low-time eggs or even hatchlings.) It takes between 60 (full incubate) and 90 (no incubate) days to go from bronze trophy to silver trophy, and an additional 100 to 150 days to make the transition to the gold trophy. At the most, that's 182 days - 6 months. Compared to the 9-10 months for a gold player to reach the 1000 raised dragons, that's not that much. (Plus, when you're at gold level, you already have half your gold dragon. So, the first CB gold would take you 11 instead of 9 to 10 months - wow. Big, fat disadvantage.)

 

And re "good reflexes, excellent internet": Speak for yourself, please.

 

I've given up. At least having gold would let non old players have the chance of getting eggs since the current market is monopolised by the rich getting richer.

You were suggesting giving new players a huge amount of gold that would take an older player months to gain (by raising dragons). Also, see example above. If you gave each new player 500 starting gold, they'd be able to get their first gold much faster than an older player. Plus, it would encourage multi-scrolling because people could just start a new scroll (from their work place, library, wherever), send the 500 gold to their old scroll, repeat - and buy a gold. For absolutely no dragons being raised. That, IMHO, is the fastest way to unbalance the ratios.

 

Nobody's mentioned a pretty obvious flaw so far, in that there's nothing stopping a user raising a bunch of dragons, getting the gold for them, buying their rare and then just releasing all the dragons they just raised into the Wilderness. That would *really* screw with the ratios, no?

Simple to fix: Just make wild dragons count towards the ratios as if they were on a scroll. (And dragons on a scroll count for 1 year after growing up, or so I've been told.)

 

Regarding the generosity thing, assuming that scroll limits will always exist, people will *always* need to prioritise what they use that space for.

Exactly.

 

I think adding money in would make this game more greedy (as TJ said before hoarding isn't possible on this game so no greed takes place).

Okay, let me get this straight. If you collect hundreds of metallics, you're not greedy. If you collect hundreds of gold coins, you suddenly are?

 

I can collect and do whatever I want with my own scroll and change my play style as I see fit and not have to worry about getting any points or anything besides eggs to get what I want or need at the time. Adding gold in would force me into changing how I play on here and that is something I would not like at all.

Even with gold, you can collect and do whatever you want and change your play style as you see fit. You don't even have to worry about getting any points or anything besides eggs if you are against being able to use DC money to buy eggs. It's like it is with teleport: You can still try to trade via the AP, although that has become riskier than before. Nobody forces you to teleport your trades. Or influence: Nobody forces you to influence your dragon eggs to be a certain gender.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Even if cave bought dragons didn't count towards ratios, their offspring do.

 

Breeding is affected by ratios.

 

Adding a gold system that allows double the amount of people to obtain rare dragons means more rare dragons will be bred.

 

Which means already super low breeding rates (which a lot of the people supporting this have mentioned as a sign that the cave is becoming boring to them) would get even lower.

 

The reality of this system is that it can't exist without taking something away from the current system. It just can't.

[DarkEternity]

You were suggesting giving new players a huge amount of gold that would take an older player months to gain (by raising dragons)

.. and when did I say that?

And I was discussing virtual currency on the OTHER virtual money thread where trading gold would be blocked and users could not obtain dragons/trade the gold so there would be no need for a money sink, but I digress.

Edited November 5, 2012 by DarkEternity

[olympe]

.. and when did I say that?

And I was discussing virtual currency on the OTHER virtual money thread where trading gold would be blocked and users could not obtain dragons/trade the gold so there would be no need for a money sink, but I digress.

Okay, so I mixed things up because you brought up something from the other currency thread. My fault.

 

What you did suggest, though, was,

What if BSAs could be enhanced for people who don't have gold trophy? Or the bonus on the BSA's could be progressively reduced as you move up from the bronze to the gold trophy?

And I asked you why older players should be penalized. Ooops.

[CNR4806]

(...)

 

Once I get 175m, I cannot get any more money from raising dragons. I can get up to 250m through selling, however.

 

(...)

 

The maximum price would be 75m

 

(...)

 

Communism is NOT the solution to inflation. Soon enough no one will care about your currency since its value is so damn low.

[DarkEternity]

Communism is NOT the solution to inflation. Soon enough no one will care about your currency since its value is so damn low.

Communism and Capitalism both have their flaws, but Capitalism is more workable.

 

And again, I wouldn't have much confidence in the currency, in my opinion, unless you could directly buy dragons...

Edited November 5, 2012 by DarkEternity

[r0botmind]

I'd rather not have in-game currency. Currency just ruins everything and sucks out all the enjoyment for me. Currency is hard enough to earn on some of these sites and I always feel poor because it's hard for me to earn money or I just don't have the time. I like that Dragcave is something I can just pop into the hatcheries or in my signature and do that. It'd be a shame if I had to fork extra time to get gold to buy dragons. That's one thing I like about this game. I have just enough time to play with my Dragons but not enough time to sit around trying to earn gold. I barely have enough time for Neopets, Gaia, etc. Imma say no.

[Hellen]

To be honest ... this idea has no appeal to me

 

Why should I sell my dragons, hatchlings or eggs if we do not know for SURE about their rarity?

 

For this system to work, we´d need a fixed rarity system being implemented by TJ, which he will not do. No rarity bars, only wiki entries which say "common, uncommon, whatever" and can be changed by users.

 

 

[olympe]

Communism is NOT the solution to inflation. Soon enough no one will care about your currency since its value is so damn low.

^100% correct.

[stogucheme]

No, I have not read all 8 pages y'all have added. I'm not entirely sure I will. Y'all move too fast for me and run off into tangents and make the same arguments a lot and it's very confusing. However, there are a few things I want to address:

1. I'm gonna cheat and tell you that all the ideas proposed could be money sinks. There are some great ones listed throughout the thread.

 

2. I like PF13's idea of rewarding for hatching, not growing up. So, I'm changing that. You either get 1m or 2m for hatching an egg and that's that.

 

3. Two of the most common threads are these:

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=126128

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=142059

First one's the regular trade thread, and the second's the Rare trading thread. Here are its requirements for what counts as a 'rare' dragon:

Alt Black, Alt Vine, Black (no higher than 3rd gen), CB Gold Wyvern, CB Nebula, CB Pink, CB Red, CB Red Dorsal, CB Tan Ridgewing, CB Tsunami Wyvern, CB Blusang Lindwurm, CB Seasonal, Vampire, Striped Dragon (no higher than 3rd gen), Dino (all colours), Chicken, Paper, Cheese Dragon, Event / Holiday Dragon, Gold, Silver, Neglected, Tinsel, Trio Dragon (Ice, Thunder or Magma) (no higher than 3rd gen), Thuwed-lineaged Dragon (no higher than 3rd gen).

Notice something interesting? EIGHT dragon breeds out of TWENTY-FIVE can be whatever lineage, FOUR can be 3rd gen or lower, and THIRTEEN must be CB.

Stop repeating the baloney of "lineages are valuable!" No, they aren't. Not when it comes to the rare trading center. And since it's practically DC's official thread for trading rares, it determines what is rare and what is not. If you think that this is horribly messed up, please, try to argue with the thread mods. (No really, I'd appreciate it.) But this is the current reality. CB's and sometimes 3rd gen or lower dragons are what's valued in DC. And this makes it nearly impossible for people who don't have 3rd gens and below to trade.

By the way, I checked the last page. Counting people who wanted 2012 Halloweens, 7 people wanted rares and 1 person wanted Purple hatchies. You cannot say that 'most people' want 'random hatchies.' This is not true.

Have I convinced you that this entire line of reasoning does not work and are you willing to admit that if these are the requirements, newbies have to be extremely lucky and well-gifted?

 

4. Since it's apparently not common knowledge, there's a communist government in one part of India. It works wonderfully. It's only the Russian, Chinese, etc. brands of communism that don't work, because they have dictators and corrupt governments.

I'm sorry, but anti-communism and anti-socialism arguments don't work because you're only thinking of one type of communism and socialism. (At least one part of Germany's socialist, by the way.)

Also, regulation is not communism. The end.

[olympe]

4. Since it's apparently not common knowledge, there's a communist government in one part of India. It works wonderfully. It's only the Russian, Chinese, etc. brands of communism that don't work, because they have dictators and corrupt governments.

I'm sorry, but anti-communism and anti-socialism arguments don't work because you're only thinking of one type of communism and socialism. (At least one part of Germany's socialist, by the way.)

Uh, you are aware that the Federal Republic of Germany (mostly capitalist) and the German Democratic Republic (socialist/communist) have become one country about 23 years, one month and two days ago?

 

And, no, regulation is not communism. But putting a cap on how much money you can have, how many of it you can spend at once and how much you can charge for what are things very reminiscent of a planned economy. Which is usually associated with...?

 

Stop repeating the baloney of "lineages are valuable!"

Nope. Not stopping. Not everybody values every lineage - but if I'm looking for something specific (like a 3rd gen flamingo from a perfect flamigo (m) x marrow (f) checker, I'd be willing to pay more for such a flamingo than for a CB - which I can get quite easily. And I'm not the only one.

 

The end.

Yes, mommy. Sure, mommy. Oh, wait, you're not mommy?

[Fuzzbucket]

Because in player generated contests/games/whatever they should be called, the eggs being offered as prizes already exist or will naturally exist at some point. In buying these from a store, this forces one to be made not naturally, so to speak. It's not one that was going to pop up in the cave or in a breeding. It's one that a player offered money for and so now exists, forcing lower numbers of this breed in cave grabbing or breeding. This is dipping into ratios and pulling eggs away from regular gameplay so they can exist in this store. This makes currency not optional and forces the game to go a different route than it does now.

 

As for rating eggs with points on those threads - as is our idea of common/uncommon/rare dragons - these are user dependent, not game supported. TJ has been adamant in that the game does not have an idea of common/uncommon/rare like we do. There are ratios, sure, but we users are the ones who place values on dragons by how much they are liked, how often we see them in the cave, and how easy it is to breed or catch them. Adding some kind of value system like this to the cave, again, changes the whole way the cave works. Now we have official values and rarities, so to speak. So now this suggestion not only changes the ratios, as explained above, but it also changes trading, as now we'll have an official basis on what to ask for what.

 

We could unlink shop ratios from cave and breeding ratios, but this still changes how the game works and defeats the purpose of the store. This would mean that only so many people could get x type of dragon from the store or that you would have to depend on currency + x chance that you'll get the dragon. The point of the store is to make it available to all, so this obviously won't work.

 

Or, as suggested later on from this quote, store dragons could just not count towards the ratios. But this still changes the whole way the game works. Now we have dragons that are essentially worth nothing that just take a little time and effort and you are guaranteed on. But since they're not a part of the ratios and therefore can't have any kind of common/uncommon/rare status, this is also going to strongly affect trading and even lineages. Trading because you know we are going to have people that are going to want 'real' gold eggs, not some 'cheap store' gold egg, so now trading is going to get picky and hard in determining the difference in these or just being paranoid that all trades you're asking for you did work for your side of the offer, but not the same amount of work went into the other side of the offer, making it unfair for you to accept. Lineages because, well, look already at the emphasis we place on these. Deadlines you basically can't get anything for in trade. Spriters alts are more wanted because there's less of them. Dragons have to match exactly to be thought of as pretty (so on the bottom of the lineage there is a deep sea x gold instead of a royal blue x gold as the rest of the lineage is and so it's less ideal, for example). Look at the controversy in the ascension thread over whether or not to show sprites as ascended in lineage view or not. Some are for yes because they feel it would make more sense and other things already change in lineages (dead, unnamed, zombified). Some are for no because they feel this would ruin the look of the lineage they may have worked hard on. I can easily see people valuing lineages that took more time and effort to create (ie they had to grab and breed) than lineages where someone "cheated" and just bought the dragon they needed, rather than 'working' for it. So this changes the whole game of trading and lineages and even the very basis and point of having ratios. Why should we have ratios in cave and breeding if you can just raise some dragons and easily buy it in the store?

 

Also, as this was mentioned earlier, I just wanted to comment on it: overpricing in trades. It was talked about how things are already overpriced, so what did it matter, and it was pointed out that people are willing to pay it so obviously it's not overpriced.

The problem with this is, once someone rises to the occasion and decided to pay for it because they really want it, now that person knows they can get what they want for a dragon that many could feel is overpriced. So now users have no choice to bend to this and pay the demands to get an egg. Whichever tinsel it was that the original owner's scroll got burned and the dragon had only produced one 2g tinsel, so the person with that tinsel was free to demand whatever. For the longest time, I don't believe they got anything. But people grumbled because they needed it to complete their tinsel goals. So I believe the community finally came together to meet the demands of the offer and get some more people with descendents from the lineage so they could spread it for less pay or gift it to users. Yes, people were willing to overpay, but that didn't change the fact that they thought it was overpriced but couldn't find a way around that to get the egg without overpaying.

A lot of the reason I don't trade much is because I am not the type of person who can just go out and catch what people are looking for, nor am I likely to have 5 hatchies of the dragon they're looking for sitting on my scroll waiting to be traded. I do find a lot of trades ridiculous, which is why when I offer trades, I always try to offer overpay on my side, because otherwise I don't get any offers.

However, all of this is userbased. A lot of what I feel is overpay is simply because I suck at catching and I suck at remembering to sit in the cave and refresh until I find what I'm looking for. That doesn't make it actually overpriced, just overpriced to me because I can't make the offer. ;p So I agree a little with both sides. Yes, people ask for those things because there are people willing to pay that; however, that doesn't change the fact that not everyone is willing to or can pay that or that they don't find it overpriced. Currency is going to do nothing to fix this, though, IMO, unless we are looking for a complete overhaul of the game. No matter how currency is diced, especially if you tie it in with getting dragons, it is going to change the whole game. Now, I suppose there's some method here which may indeed offer a 'fix' to trading, but you can't deny that this will also change most other aspects of the game.

Also, overpriced is completely subjective anyway, as the value of dragons is pretty much completely user based.

 

I believe I had one more thing I wanted to attempt to discuss, but after all that, I've forgotten what it was. I think I've written enough for right now, anyway. :3

 

EDIT: Thought of it!

 

I was going to ask people to stop nitpicking for reasons of why people do or don't want a suggestion. Suggesting something that will improve your game (and so by extension the games of others like you) is kind of how we operate. "I do/not like it" or "I do/not want it" for supporting or not supporting a suggestion is completely valid. Some people just do not want currency and this is okay. Discussion on the reasons of how this would affect the game is fine, but let's please stop telling people their posts or opinions aren't valid just because they want or don't want it. Your opinion, how you feel about this, without any backing is okay. This is just a simple pixel game and we're allowed to let feeling tell us if the suggestion would improve our game or not. ^^

Now, if you're trying to ask for specific reasoning and someone replied to you without answering your question, it's okay to ask again or whatnot.

This post summarises (well, OK, EXPRESSES ) everything I came to say. Not least the bit about fixed values - because they cannot stay fixed, as so much depends on demand - and who is going to be sitting there resetting them every few days ?

 

And stog - as I see we are crossposting - lineages ARE valuable. I bred a chunk of olympe's daydream lineage a few months ago (because I wanted to; actually if she had asked me to and offered gold I wouldn't have done, for the record.) I am willing to bet she would rather have paid for that egg than a gold.

 

You talk as if the rare trading centre is the only one here. I have hardly ever gone there - because rares are POSSIBLE to get. But the other trading threads are hugely active. And full of GIFTS ! You cannot say that ONLY rares are valued here. It simply is not true.

[DarkEternity]

1. Oh, I'm not against communism. Marx's idea is wonderful... but it unfortunately doesn't work. And America's government is just as corrupt as China's. Just looking at all the senators who 'vote with the money' and what they do with 'interrogation methods' - I mean torture methods. Cross the line and they do to you what they are trying to do to Assange and all the other whistleblowers.

 

Regulation is not communism. Nationalisation of industry is communism, though in capitalism there is a market which is more free of government intereference but it gets complicated.

 

2. Lineages are valuable to me, but only very specific lineages. For example, NO ONE wanted to work on a 13th gen Sunsong x Silver tinsel perfect even gen deadline checker, not when I offered a third gen tinsel for it and not when I offered a 2nd gen Holly for one (My Holly list isn't open at the moment, but I'll still prefer one over CB metals when my list clears up in a few years... ;-; Hopefully by then the tinsel drought will have cleared up OTL, my plans have been killed by the tinsel drought OTL /keels over and dies)

 

3. It is kind of true that no one wants random hatchlings, but that reminds me... I need to put random hatchlings in my sig because I keep forgetting to put that in my trading posts.

[Fuzzbucket]

ACTUALLY no country has ever succeeded in running communism AS ORIGINALLY DEFINED BY MARX - only some corrupted "version" that happened to suit whoever got the power.

 

Under true Marxism there would be no money at all, and common ownership of most things (NOT state ownership - non UK readers might like to google the UK company John Lewis - owned by its worked - and one that is doing OK in the current catastrophic climate. Sadly for him, he assumed that we all had a benevolent gene and would do so willingly. THAT was where it all went pearshaped. Because we are too greedy to share with others if it means WE have less.

 

Anyone who wants to read about a truly communist society needs to read William Morris' News from Nowhere. But as you will see - we are all (I include myself) too self-interested to live like that.

 

Here is quite a good unbiased page about this.

 

That said - greed is meaning that capitalism is falling over big time anyway.... What happens next I dread to think.

 

[CNR4806]

4. Since it's apparently not common knowledge, there's a communist government in one part of India. It works wonderfully. It's only the Russian, Chinese, etc. brands of communism that don't work, because they have dictators and corrupt governments.

I'm sorry, but anti-communism and anti-socialism arguments don't work because you're only thinking of one type of communism and socialism. (At least one part of Germany's socialist, by the way.)

Also, regulation is not communism. The end.

 

Sure, regulation is not communism. Just who the hell regulates prices other than communists and socialists anyway?

 

Also mind you, price control had been failures all over the place IRL. What makes you think your brand of regulation just isn't another, to your exact wording, "dictator"?

 

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To be very honest, the entire idea of screwing up the fundamental mechanics of DC with currency is not a good idea at all, especially considering that there are plenty of oppurtunities to climb up the hierachy ladder and/or get what you want if you know what you're doing.

 

These are not lucky catches, but caught with patience and a lot of self-locking.

 

These are all gifts from fellow players without asking anything in return or being promised so.

 

This was one of the best bargain in 2011.

 

You don't have excuses.

Edited November 5, 2012 by CNR4806

[stogucheme]

1. The social democratic party of Germany is one of it's most major parties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democr...arty_of_Germany

Social democracy was developed from socialism, and in all honesty, is what most people think of when we say socialism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

2. You not knowing about India and its awesome version of communism does not make communism a flawed concept. It means you only know about flawed communism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Par...esent_situation

3. I really don't care if YOU think the lineages are valuable, because that obviously doesn't matter to the rare trading thread. If it did, we wouldn't have this problem.

4. EDIT: fuzz, do you know how many changes republicans in the US went through? They used to be the LIBERAL ONES. Ideas and terms change.

Edited November 5, 2012 by stogucheme

[KageSora]

Stop repeating the baloney of "lineages are valuable!" No, they aren't. Not when it comes to the rare trading center. And since it's practically DC's official thread for trading rares, it determines what is rare and what is not.

Actually, yes, THEY ARE VALUABLE--no matter what that thread says.

 

It's just a different type of value than rarity is. But just because they're not the same type of valuable does NOT invalidate their value.

 

The rare trading thread takes only rarity into account. Lineages have PERSONAL value. Some people will offer more for a long-lineaged egg of the lineage they like than they would for a CB gold.

 

That CANNOT be completely ignored, and which is why set trading value are not going to cut it.

[CNR4806]

I really don't care if YOU think the lineages are valuable, because that obviously doesn't matter to the rare trading thread. If it did, we wouldn't have this problem.

 

Everything you say will be obeyed, my lord. /sarcasm

 

It's funny that you brought up the very idea of dictators screwing up Marx's communism, because you're quickly becoming one.

 

 

EDITED for the sake of German users. My apologies if you get arrested for viewing that message.

Edited November 5, 2012 by CNR4806

[DarkEternity]

Sure, regulation is not communism. Just who the hell regulates prices other than communists and socialists anyway?

People who don't want to pay $2400 on an Apple iPhone when it only costs the seller $168 to make. And anyway, isn't taxation a type of price control? Then the people who regulate prices regulate it so 1) they can make a profit, 2) they can pay for government benefits and schemes

 

Also mind you, price control had been failures all over the place IRL.

Erm, no. I cite an explicit example of pricing control following the introduction of the NEP (introduced in 1921) in Russia where the scissoring crisis occurred (Agricultural economic growth outpaced the Industrial growth of the industry). Worried for the revolutionary potential of the Peasantry class which would potentially be angered by its lack of purchasing power, Trostky controlled the prices of Industrial goods such as tractors. Disaster averted.

 

3. I really don't care if YOU think the lineages are valuable, because that obviously doesn't matter to the rare trading thread. If it did, we wouldn't have this problem.

Actually, yes they are valuable because WE control the demand. And particularly in the case of exclusive rares, you either pay what I demand... or too bad so sad you don't get the rarest rare essentially.

Edited November 5, 2012 by DarkEternity